gasoline brands - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Halx · 12-04-2003, 11:12 AM

I just wanna poll everyone on the kinda gas they purchase for their babies. I know there are varying brands all over the world, but share it all anyways.

I personally have no real preference, but I am wondering if I should. Do some companies have better quality gas than others?

I go to Shell because they are so close. I go to Chevron when I am coming home from the west 'cause my sister says it burns cleaner and just 'cause there is a Chevron station on the way. I also generally avoid Arco because everyone says it's watered down.

Let's spread some hard knowledge though.

laconic1 · 12-04-2003, 11:18 AM

I usually get Phillips 66 or Texaco. No real reason, supposedly they are better, but I have not noticed any difference

Peryn · 12-04-2003, 11:22 AM

I have heard Shell and Chevron burn cleaner, occasionally get better mileage, and prevent knocking better than other companies with the same grade gas. In those cases its not the octane rating, but the additives that help hte engine. SO i've heard....

I pretty much always go to the Ultramar, US Gas, or some other cheapo station when im tight on money. When im not, i usually end up at the local Chevron, thought they tend to overprice a little too much. But at 250k miles, its a little late to make a difference on engine life by my choice of gas, so i dont worry about it too much.

Pragma · 12-04-2003, 12:13 PM

My car is fairly close to 200k miles, so I figure what brand of gasoline I put in it doesn't matter much. I personally go to Texaco because that's the most reputable looking gas station around here, the others I've had very shady occurances where I've been afraid of getting mugged.

I guess I'm fairly neutral about "liking" a company more than another.

Tech · 12-04-2003, 02:57 PM

i use Fina because out here in Lubbock the octane ratings are 86, 88, and 91 and Fina is the only station chain that uses 87 for it's regular (like NORMAL) and it's cheaper to buy regular at Fina then it is to buy mid-grade elsewhere.

they just started doing this last summer though, so before that i used Diamond Shamrock because they were usually a couple cent's cheaper than the rest.

as you can see, i'm driven by price

JStrider · 12-04-2003, 03:53 PM

Tech! wheres that fina? it drives me crazy having to pay more for the 88...

usually ill go to texaco, chevron, or shell... no real reason... just the bigger names i guess...

dont use costco gas! my dad did on a trip once and his car had problems starting untill he had run 2 or 3 tanks of good gas thru it...

Tech · 12-04-2003, 04:09 PM

there's a fina on 4th and frankford and another one on 4th and university (the one i usually use). those are the two that i know of (though there are more around)

wraithhibn · 12-04-2003, 04:22 PM

I prefer Shell overall. If I'm at home its usually Citgo. Around here its mainly Thortons. I seem to get bad knocking on Speedway/Super America.

ledhead · 12-04-2003, 06:29 PM

i know that in aviation gas, cheveron makes the best. i asume they also do pretty in regular gas. i also think mobil is pretty good.

Booty Man · 12-04-2003, 06:40 PM

Mobil/Exxon all the way.........premium fuel ofcourse.

soccerchamp76 · 12-04-2003, 07:33 PM

Shell right down the street from my house. Always get gas there except for when I was on a road trip so I was forced to go elsewhere.

zfleebin · 12-04-2003, 07:35 PM

I usually go to Shell out of convenience and I only run 89 through the Hemi cause she needs it. I used to be really loyal to Mobil but I never see any of those here in Colorado.

Ashton · 12-04-2003, 08:16 PM

I burn Chevron Super in all my cars, if I'm somewhere and need gas where there isn't a Chevron I'll look for a Union 76...... Those are the only two brands I'll fill the tank with.

MSD · 12-04-2003, 08:30 PM

Shell is cheapest, and their employees are the friendliest. It's nice to have someone who doesn't treat my "have a good day" as two seconds that another customer coud be using to spend money.

It's all the same damn gas. I notice no difference between stations.

merkerguitars · 12-04-2003, 09:00 PM

Any cenex brand gas I try to stay away from. Their premium has ethanol in it and cars that require premium in it usually don't like it

Craven Morehead · 12-04-2003, 10:45 PM

Pretty much always Shell. When its not, then its a name brand. Save a few pennies on gas and get watered down crap or particles in the gas can be more costly in the long run. Had a car that got a tank of dirty gas. Had to carry extra fuel filters and a wrench with me. About every 6 months would clog up and starve the engine. Huge pain in the ass.

Scorps · 12-05-2003, 10:11 AM

I don't know if there are Esso's in the states, but I go there all the time because Petro Canada's Gas was making my Carb backfire.

sensation612 · 12-05-2003, 10:53 AM

always been shell 93 for me, but at times i would get amaco or mobile

wakelagger · 12-05-2003, 02:06 PM

Usually whatever's closest. Petro Canada, Shell, and Esso usually are the options.

soccerchamp76 · 12-05-2003, 02:39 PM

Anyone here use the middle grade?

TM875 · 12-06-2003, 04:39 PM

Either Shell or Sunoco, depending on what's cheaper that week. Around here, there's no Union 76 or Chevrons.

tritium · 12-06-2003, 05:05 PM

It is all the same stuff. Get the cheapest grade octane fuel that your car can burn. All gasoline is heavily regulated by the FTC and ISO standards. The be a pump "fuel."

tritium · 12-06-2003, 05:07 PM

Smut in the gasoline is a result of dirty storage tanks AT the gas station and speaks nothing of the national quality of the chain. Just avoid gas stations with traditionally dirty tanks and NEVER fill up after a fuel truck has just made a delivery.

tritium · 12-06-2003, 05:11 PM

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...930#post827930

WarWagon · 12-06-2003, 06:21 PM

Aviation and Sunoco race fuels for the wagon, Sunoco for the drivers.

MrGone · 12-06-2003, 08:02 PM

I only use Arco unless I'm out of town.
The reason is I've done stuff to my car, and if I run anything else besides premium Arco it will ping. Arco isnt watered down, it is mixed with ethynol (10% generally).

I always carry some wrenches in my car incase I cant find an arco so I can set my timing back to avoid pinging and knocking. Sometimes I get wierd looks, other times I've had the station people ask me if I needed oil or other fluids, lol.

tritium · 12-07-2003, 11:55 AM

The 10% ethanol additive boosts octane by 3 points and in most cases is a cheaper alternative to some of the other chemicals used to boost octane. It isn't watering down fuels and many terminals use it -- whether they admit it or not is another story altogether. Ethanol isn't a bad thing either.

http://www.ne-ethanol.org/ethfaq.html

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm

m0j0 · 12-07-2003, 04:13 PM

I usually just get the cheapest gas. Gas is usually all the same just the different additives they put in since it is traded around as a commodity.

goddfather40 · 12-07-2003, 10:02 PM

I usually use Chevron, Mobil or Unocal 76, even though I had a neighbor who used to work at the Mobil refinery who would brag to us about taking naps on the job and drinking beers.

X_cody_X · 12-08-2003, 07:58 AM

Racetrac, because its about 500 yards from the house, but over the last few months been putting Chevron Super in. New tanks at the station+plus clean gas= one happy volvo and one happy old ass VW

j8ear · 12-08-2003, 09:07 AM

Maybe I'm the only one, but I refuse to buy anything from Exxon. After the Valdez eco-disaster and Exxon's subsequent, and somewhat successful attempts to turn that problem into a taxpayer one disgusts me. Since Exxon and Mobil joined at the hip Mobil is now in the pile of places I will not patronize.

In DC, I seem to have good results with Amaco which is now Amaco/BP. Nice stations, competively priced fuels, and for a natural resource exploiting company, seems to be on track for good things. I.E. alternative fuel research, expanding beyond oil, and a sound policy to contribute to this planet and not just take from her.

When I pass through PA, or am other wise presented with a Sunoco, they get my money. A nice tank of high octane (94) Sunoco ultra really makes my engines purr. I usually get another 4-5 mpg (this increases the range on my Volvo wagon by around 75 or 100 miles). Plus I can really feel the increased performance the turbo exhibits. More pronounced torque, more fluid spool ups, and all around more enjoyable to drive.

out,

-bear

sky_driver · 12-08-2003, 11:00 AM

In Atlanta where I live, it is either BP, Shell, Chevron, Texaco, or Circle K. I could really care less, as it seems to me gas is gas. In my Acura though I use premium unleaded, and in my 4 runner I use regular gas as that is what it recommends.

CS733t · 12-08-2003, 05:19 PM

I prefer to use Chevron...it costs a little more, but the additive techron is supposed to help clean your engine...couldn't hurt.

Stay away from arco gas.

shakran · 12-08-2003, 07:04 PM

My gas-purchasing locations are chosen by which one has pay-at-the-pump.

BTW, this seems like a good thread to mention the myth that higher octane gas = higher performance. I know a lot of people who think that and who spend the extra $ on premium when regular is all that's required by their car. Higher octane does NOT equal higher performance. Higher octane actually equals lower performance because it burns slower. You need that in high performance engines because the compression is greater than regular engines, which can cause predetonation (pinging), damaging your engine.

If your car calls for 87 octane and you haven't done anything like supercharge it, and you put premium in there, you actually damage your engine by accelerating the buildup of carbon due to incompletely-burned gas. Eventually, you'll make your engine require the higher octane just to run right.

Lestat · 12-08-2003, 10:02 PM

I'm pretty anal when it comes to getting gas. I only use Mobil, 76, or Cheveron (super Unleaded) in that order. I never use Arco beacuse I also heard that it's watered down (which it's not). I can tell the difference in my car. Weird huh?

Peryn · 12-09-2003, 09:25 AM

Well, i just switched to 89 to keep the pinging down. Hasn't quite stopped completely, but i gotta work it pretty good for it to ping now. On 87 it was terrible. Anyway, i have noticed that el cheapo regular gas varies quite a bit depending on where you go. 10-15 cents even sometimes. But midgrage 89 seems to be within 1-2 cents between the cheapest and most expensive stations. So now that im pumping mid grade, i go to someplace like Chevron or shell, where for the same price, im getting all their nice additives and stuff.
As for higher grade = better performance....usually, yes, thats a myth. But in a case like mine, where i was pinging like crazy on 87 (250k miles on the engine), going up to a higher grade gas DOES give better performance, better engine life, and better mileage too. Haven't been using it too long yet, but i seem to be getting a good 3-4 miles per gallon better.

munchini · 12-09-2003, 06:08 PM

i use exxon down the street; since only 1 or 2 people stated it... is there something i should know about exxon?

Elitegibson · 12-09-2003, 06:16 PM

I'm in QuikTrip land here in noreast Oklahoma. I always use it because they guarantee to pay for any gas related problems.

phredgreen · 12-09-2003, 06:27 PM

i always purchase my gas based on price... there's one joint whose fuel is consistently lower than the others, so they see my money more than the other ones do. typically, phillips 66 and quicktrip fuels cost less than texaco, shell, and chevron, so i go for them. want that extra detergent they put in their fuel? buy a bottle of fuel injector cleaner at every oil change.

amonkie · 12-09-2003, 09:22 PM

Just curious here, what exactly is pinging? Is is where when the car is starting to run low on gas it doesn't have a good fuel source after making a sudden movement? I've got an older car, and when I don't get a chance to get to a station before it's at the quarter tank line, it's a little sluggish after making a turn or waiting at a light.

12-04-2003, 11:12 AM	#1 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	gasoline brands I just wanna poll everyone on the kinda gas they purchase for their babies. I know there are varying brands all over the world, but share it all anyways. I personally have no real preference, but I am wondering if I should. Do some companies have better quality gas than others? I go to Shell because they are so close. I go to Chevron when I am coming home from the west 'cause my sister says it burns cleaner and just 'cause there is a Chevron station on the way. I also generally avoid Arco because everyone says it's watered down. Let's spread some hard knowledge though. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

12-04-2003, 11:22 AM	#3 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	I have heard Shell and Chevron burn cleaner, occasionally get better mileage, and prevent knocking better than other companies with the same grade gas. In those cases its not the octane rating, but the additives that help hte engine. SO i've heard.... I pretty much always go to the Ultramar, US Gas, or some other cheapo station when im tight on money. When im not, i usually end up at the local Chevron, thought they tend to overprice a little too much. But at 250k miles, its a little late to make a difference on engine life by my choice of gas, so i dont worry about it too much. __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.

12-04-2003, 12:13 PM	#4 (permalink)
Pragma I am Winter Born Location: Alexandria, VA	My car is fairly close to 200k miles, so I figure what brand of gasoline I put in it doesn't matter much. I personally go to Texaco because that's the most reputable looking gas station around here, the others I've had very shady occurances where I've been afraid of getting mugged. I guess I'm fairly neutral about "liking" a company more than another. __________________ Eat antimatter, Posleen-boy!

12-04-2003, 02:57 PM	#5 (permalink)
Tech Addict Location: Baltimore MD	i use Fina because out here in Lubbock the octane ratings are 86, 88, and 91 and Fina is the only station chain that uses 87 for it's regular (like NORMAL) and it's cheaper to buy regular at Fina then it is to buy mid-grade elsewhere. they just started doing this last summer though, so before that i used Diamond Shamrock because they were usually a couple cent's cheaper than the rest. as you can see, i'm driven by price __________________ -Tim- ~I swear sometimes i feel like i'm married to a child. ~You better watch who you're calling a child, Lois, cause if i'm a child than you know what that makes you? a pedophile. and i'll be damned if i'm going to stand here and be lectured by a pervert.

12-04-2003, 03:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
JStrider Poo-tee-weet? Location: The Woodlands, TX	Tech! wheres that fina? it drives me crazy having to pay more for the 88... usually ill go to texaco, chevron, or shell... no real reason... just the bigger names i guess... dont use costco gas! my dad did on a trip once and his car had problems starting untill he had run 2 or 3 tanks of good gas thru it... __________________ -=JStrider=- ~Clatto Verata Nicto

12-04-2003, 11:18 AM	#2 (permalink)
laconic1 Junkie	I usually get Phillips 66 or Texaco. No real reason, supposedly they are better, but I have not noticed any difference

12-04-2003, 04:09 PM	#7 (permalink)
Tech Addict Location: Baltimore MD	there's a fina on 4th and frankford and another one on 4th and university (the one i usually use). those are the two that i know of (though there are more around) __________________ -Tim- ~I swear sometimes i feel like i'm married to a child. ~You better watch who you're calling a child, Lois, cause if i'm a child than you know what that makes you? a pedophile. and i'll be damned if i'm going to stand here and be lectured by a pervert.

12-04-2003, 04:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
wraithhibn Dopefish Location: the 'Ville	I prefer Shell overall. If I'm at home its usually Citgo. Around here its mainly Thortons. I seem to get bad knocking on Speedway/Super America. __________________ If you won't dress like the Victoria Secret girls, don't expect us to act like soap opera guys.

12-04-2003, 06:29 PM	#9 (permalink)
ledhead Crazy Location: So. Cal	i know that in aviation gas, cheveron makes the best. i asume they also do pretty in regular gas. i also think mobil is pretty good. __________________ "If you can count the number of cylinders on one hand....it is NOT a race car." big bubba "Diplomacy is the art of letting someone else have your way"

12-04-2003, 06:40 PM	#10 (permalink)
Booty Man Junkie	Mobil/Exxon all the way.........premium fuel ofcourse.

12-04-2003, 07:33 PM	#11 (permalink)
soccerchamp76 Go Cardinals Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati	Shell right down the street from my house. Always get gas there except for when I was on a road trip so I was forced to go elsewhere. __________________ Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department. Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

12-04-2003, 07:35 PM	#12 (permalink)
zfleebin Addict	I usually go to Shell out of convenience and I only run 89 through the Hemi cause she needs it. I used to be really loyal to Mobil but I never see any of those here in Colorado.

12-04-2003, 08:16 PM	#13 (permalink)
Ashton PORNHOUND Location: California	I burn Chevron Super in all my cars, if I'm somewhere and need gas where there isn't a Chevron I'll look for a Union 76...... Those are the only two brands I'll fill the tank with.

12-04-2003, 08:30 PM	#14 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Shell is cheapest, and their employees are the friendliest. It's nice to have someone who doesn't treat my "have a good day" as two seconds that another customer coud be using to spend money. It's all the same damn gas. I notice no difference between stations.

12-04-2003, 09:00 PM	#15 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Any cenex brand gas I try to stay away from. Their premium has ethanol in it and cars that require premium in it usually don't like it __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

12-06-2003, 05:11 PM	#24 (permalink)
tritium Professor of Drinkology	http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...930#post827930 __________________ Blah.

12-04-2003, 10:45 PM	#16 (permalink)
Craven Morehead Custom User Title	Pretty much always Shell. When its not, then its a name brand. Save a few pennies on gas and get watered down crap or particles in the gas can be more costly in the long run. Had a car that got a tank of dirty gas. Had to carry extra fuel filters and a wrench with me. About every 6 months would clog up and starve the engine. Huge pain in the ass.

12-05-2003, 10:11 AM	#17 (permalink)
Scorps Lost!! Location: Kingston, Ontario	I don't know if there are Esso's in the states, but I go there all the time because Petro Canada's Gas was making my Carb backfire. __________________ A.K.A. PainTrain

12-05-2003, 10:53 AM	#18 (permalink)
sensation612 Crazy	always been shell 93 for me, but at times i would get amaco or mobile

12-05-2003, 02:06 PM	#19 (permalink)
wakelagger Insane Location: Toronto	Usually whatever's closest. Petro Canada, Shell, and Esso usually are the options.

12-05-2003, 02:39 PM	#20 (permalink)
soccerchamp76 Go Cardinals Location: St. Louis/Cincinnati	Anyone here use the middle grade? __________________ Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department. Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

12-06-2003, 04:39 PM	#21 (permalink)
TM875 Addict Location: Amish-land, PA	Either Shell or Sunoco, depending on what's cheaper that week. Around here, there's no Union 76 or Chevrons. __________________ "I've made only one mistake in my life. But I made it over and over and over. That was saying 'yes' when I meant 'no'. Forgive me."

12-06-2003, 05:05 PM	#22 (permalink)
tritium Professor of Drinkology	It is all the same stuff. Get the cheapest grade octane fuel that your car can burn. All gasoline is heavily regulated by the FTC and ISO standards. The be a pump "fuel." __________________ Blah.

12-06-2003, 05:07 PM	#23 (permalink)
tritium Professor of Drinkology	Smut in the gasoline is a result of dirty storage tanks AT the gas station and speaks nothing of the national quality of the chain. Just avoid gas stations with traditionally dirty tanks and NEVER fill up after a fuel truck has just made a delivery. __________________ Blah.

12-06-2003, 06:21 PM	#25 (permalink)
WarWagon Loser	Aviation and Sunoco race fuels for the wagon, Sunoco for the drivers.

12-06-2003, 08:02 PM	#26 (permalink)
MrGone Tilted Location: WA	I only use Arco unless I'm out of town. The reason is I've done stuff to my car, and if I run anything else besides premium Arco it will ping. Arco isnt watered down, it is mixed with ethynol (10% generally). I always carry some wrenches in my car incase I cant find an arco so I can set my timing back to avoid pinging and knocking. Sometimes I get wierd looks, other times I've had the station people ask me if I needed oil or other fluids, lol.

12-07-2003, 11:55 AM	#27 (permalink)
tritium Professor of Drinkology	The 10% ethanol additive boosts octane by 3 points and in most cases is a cheaper alternative to some of the other chemicals used to boost octane. It isn't watering down fuels and many terminals use it -- whether they admit it or not is another story altogether. Ethanol isn't a bad thing either. http://www.ne-ethanol.org/ethfaq.html http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm __________________ Blah.

12-07-2003, 04:13 PM	#28 (permalink)
m0j0 Tilted Location: California	I usually just get the cheapest gas. Gas is usually all the same just the different additives they put in since it is traded around as a commodity.

12-07-2003, 10:02 PM	#29 (permalink)
goddfather40 Llama Location: Cali-for-nye-a	I usually use Chevron, Mobil or Unocal 76, even though I had a neighbor who used to work at the Mobil refinery who would brag to us about taking naps on the job and drinking beers. __________________ My name is goddfather40 and I approved this message. I got ho's and I got bitches, In C++ I branch with switches -MC Plus+

12-08-2003, 07:58 AM	#30 (permalink)
X_cody_X Tilted Location: Brandon, FL	Racetrac, because its about 500 yards from the house, but over the last few months been putting Chevron Super in. New tanks at the station+plus clean gas= one happy volvo and one happy old ass VW

12-08-2003, 09:07 AM	#31 (permalink)
j8ear Gentlemen Farmer Location: Middle of nowhere, Jersey	Maybe I'm the only one, but I refuse to buy anything from Exxon. After the Valdez eco-disaster and Exxon's subsequent, and somewhat successful attempts to turn that problem into a taxpayer one disgusts me. Since Exxon and Mobil joined at the hip Mobil is now in the pile of places I will not patronize. In DC, I seem to have good results with Amaco which is now Amaco/BP. Nice stations, competively priced fuels, and for a natural resource exploiting company, seems to be on track for good things. I.E. alternative fuel research, expanding beyond oil, and a sound policy to contribute to this planet and not just take from her. When I pass through PA, or am other wise presented with a Sunoco, they get my money. A nice tank of high octane (94) Sunoco ultra really makes my engines purr. I usually get another 4-5 mpg (this increases the range on my Volvo wagon by around 75 or 100 miles). Plus I can really feel the increased performance the turbo exhibits. More pronounced torque, more fluid spool ups, and all around more enjoyable to drive. out, -bear __________________ It's alot easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to ask for permission.

12-08-2003, 11:00 AM	#32 (permalink)
sky_driver Insane	In Atlanta where I live, it is either BP, Shell, Chevron, Texaco, or Circle K. I could really care less, as it seems to me gas is gas. In my Acura though I use premium unleaded, and in my 4 runner I use regular gas as that is what it recommends.

12-08-2003, 05:19 PM	#33 (permalink)
CS733t Crazy	I prefer to use Chevron...it costs a little more, but the additive techron is supposed to help clean your engine...couldn't hurt. Stay away from arco gas. __________________ So tired now of paying my dues I start out strong but then I always lose It's half the distance before you leave me behind It's such a waste of time

12-08-2003, 07:04 PM	#34 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	My gas-purchasing locations are chosen by which one has pay-at-the-pump. BTW, this seems like a good thread to mention the myth that higher octane gas = higher performance. I know a lot of people who think that and who spend the extra $ on premium when regular is all that's required by their car. Higher octane does NOT equal higher performance. Higher octane actually equals lower performance because it burns slower. You need that in high performance engines because the compression is greater than regular engines, which can cause predetonation (pinging), damaging your engine. If your car calls for 87 octane and you haven't done anything like supercharge it, and you put premium in there, you actually damage your engine by accelerating the buildup of carbon due to incompletely-burned gas. Eventually, you'll make your engine require the higher octane just to run right.

12-08-2003, 10:02 PM	#35 (permalink)
Lestat Psycho Location: Riverside, CA	I'm pretty anal when it comes to getting gas. I only use Mobil, 76, or Cheveron (super Unleaded) in that order. I never use Arco beacuse I also heard that it's watered down (which it's not). I can tell the difference in my car. Weird huh? __________________ I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it. - Jack Handy

12-09-2003, 09:25 AM	#36 (permalink)
Peryn Junkie Location: San Diego, CA.	Well, i just switched to 89 to keep the pinging down. Hasn't quite stopped completely, but i gotta work it pretty good for it to ping now. On 87 it was terrible. Anyway, i have noticed that el cheapo regular gas varies quite a bit depending on where you go. 10-15 cents even sometimes. But midgrage 89 seems to be within 1-2 cents between the cheapest and most expensive stations. So now that im pumping mid grade, i go to someplace like Chevron or shell, where for the same price, im getting all their nice additives and stuff. As for higher grade = better performance....usually, yes, thats a myth. But in a case like mine, where i was pinging like crazy on 87 (250k miles on the engine), going up to a higher grade gas DOES give better performance, better engine life, and better mileage too. Haven't been using it too long yet, but i seem to be getting a good 3-4 miles per gallon better. __________________ Dont cry kid, It's not your fault you suck.