I hate Hummers. How about you? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

JustJess · 10-23-2006, 07:15 AM

Hummers are grossly exaggerated examples of why the U.S. auto market should be going to hell in a handbasket. They serve absolutely no purpose, they aren't even good at off-roading, and they are the most deserving of the "compensating for something" tag of any over-priced toy out there.

Why do I hate them so?
They guzzle gas. They're ugly. They're obnoxiously, unnecessarily large. They're usually owned by idiot surburbanites who can't drive regular cars, let alone those that are too big for the streets they're on. They epitomize every bad stereotype about Americans that exists.

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://www.fuh2.com/

The H2 is a gas guzzler. Because it has a gross vehicle weight rating over 8500 lbs, the US government does not require it to meet federal fuel efficiency regulations. Hummer isn't even required to publish its fuel economy (owners indicate that they get around 10 mpg for normal use). So while our brothers and sisters are off in the Middle East risking their lives to secure America's fossil fuel future, H2 drivers are pissing away our "spoils of victory" during each trip to the grocery store.

Thoughts? Any redeeming qualities? I warn you - you won't convince me. But I might lose a bit of respect for you if you own/like/would like to own one.

Some support sites for those with the Hummer Rage(tm):
The Best Site Ever: http://www.fuh2.com/
http://ihatehummers.textamerica.com/
http://supersaps.blogspot.com/2005/0...e-hummers.html

Leto · 10-23-2006, 07:23 AM

I never really caught onto the Hummer. I thought they were pretty decent as a military vehicle, but when produced commercially, well, they were derivative of the LM002, my sweetheart car:

I liked this baby when I first saw it at the Toronto Autoshow, especially since it looked like it would take a lane & a half !!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamborghini_LM002

Willravel · 10-23-2006, 07:23 AM

I hate Hummers, yes I do. I hate Hummers, how 'bout you?

They are physical representations of excess, like little, portable Costcos driving all the lazy, impulsive, stereotypical people (as JustJess said) into a bleak future. Ten miles per galon is so far past stupid, that I must use a new word for it: Bush. It's Bush to drive a Hummer.

If it were up to me, no car would exist that got less than 35 mpg, AND every manufacturer would be required to have half their lineup as hyrid vehicles, AND also have an active program to develop and alternate energy vehicle. Why isn't it up to me? Well, those things aren't cost effective for the oil companies, and also conservatives just naturally don't like listening to me.

Charlatan · 10-23-2006, 07:32 AM

Sorry... I thought this was tilted sexuality...

nevermind.

Willravel · 10-23-2006, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Sorry... I thought this was tilted sexuality...

nevermind.

Cynthetiq · 10-23-2006, 10:08 AM

What I like about hummers is that you get the choice to like or not like them and most importantly you get the choice to purchase or not purchase one.

In other countries you don't get such a choice. You have mandates that control the market and cannot get certain vehicles no matter how hard one tries. In India you don't have a choice but to buy Indian manufactured vehicles, even if it's Japanese is still has to be assembled in India.

In Singapore they tax at approx. 125% Sale value when I was living there in 1988. They also taxed based on engine size for yearly costs. It was VERY expensive to own even an inexpensive Toyota Corolla.

Iceland is very expensive for petrol, yet a good number of people drive SuperJeeps, vehicles that make a Hummer look like a small vehicle. Iceland also heavily taxes their vehicles and petrol.

But again, people have the freedom to do what they want with their money.

JustJess · 10-23-2006, 10:24 AM

Sooooo... what you're saying is that you like living in the U.S. Fair enough, I do too.

I still hate Hummers, H2s, and anything else along those lines. They're still useless, wasteful, awful cars.

Scorps · 10-23-2006, 10:41 AM

The H1 is great but the H2 and 3 are just ugly as hell.

Cynthetiq · 10-23-2006, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJess

Sooooo... what you're saying is that you like living in the U.S. Fair enough, I do too.

I still hate Hummers, H2s, and anything else along those lines. They're still useless, wasteful, awful cars.

Actually, I said nothing in the above post about living in the US. I stated that I like having choices. Many other countries have choices as well, you just have to pay much more for them.

JustJess · 10-23-2006, 10:45 AM

Why is the H1 "great"? Can you give us a little more info than that? You are, after all, posting in avowed rant on hating Hummers in general - hit us with something substantive!

JustJess · 10-23-2006, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

Actually, I said nothing in the above post about living in the US. I stated that I like having choices. Many other countries have choices as well, you just have to pay much more for them.

Right, which would imply that you prefer living in the U.S., where such choices are less expensive. Not that this has anything to do with the OP or anything.

quadro2000 · 10-23-2006, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

Actually, I said nothing in the above post about living in the US. I stated that I like having choices. Many other countries have choices as well, you just have to pay much more for them.

Either way, how is this not threadjacking?

The thread was about Hummers in specific - about how they are as cars - and you turned it into "we should be happy that we have the choice to like/dislike/purchase/not purchase a Hummer."

Cynthetiq · 10-23-2006, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadro2000

Either way, how is this not threadjacking?

The thread was about Hummers in specific - about how they are as cars - and you turned it into "we should be happy that we have the choice to like/dislike/purchase/not purchase a Hummer."

I didn't see it as a threadjack, my statement was what I liked about Hummers. Pick up any magazine like MotorTrend, Automobile, Car&Driver and about what new models are available to the American Market, and you'll see hundreds of vehicles. When I travel overseas, I stop by newsstands to look at what the local magazines are and usually flip through automotive magazines. I'm usually quite surprised by alot of what I see, based on vehicle and engine size availability.

It is a simple fact that I like the fact that they exist because they give choices to other people who choose to purchase them for whatever reasons they want. The OP stated to state why I like them, specifically what redeeming qualities they had. That is my reason for liking them. I don't have to like them for space, size, status symbol. I like them because they show that a market will bear whatever it bears, whether I like it or not, however stupid I may think about people who are purchasing them.

quadro2000 · 10-23-2006, 11:13 AM

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see anything in your response that's specific to the HUMMER. Your statement is more about what you like about any car that meets that criteria, not a Hummer itself.

Brewmaniac · 10-23-2006, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Ten miles per galon is so far past stupid, that I must use a new word for it: Bush. It's Bush to drive a Hummer.

If it were up to me, no car would exist that got less than 35 mpg, AND every manufacturer would be required to have half their lineup as hyrid vehicles, AND also have an active program to develop and alternate energy vehicle. Why isn't it up to me? Well, those things aren't cost effective for the oil companies, and also conservatives just naturally don't like listening to me.

Will, I like the way you think. I'd vote for ya!

Willravel in 08, yes!

As to hummers they are cool as a novelty but for all practical matters I think they are a waste of resources and fuel!

If I could afford a hummer I'd buy something more reasonable and feed a small nation on the cost difference and gas savings.

Cynthetiq · 10-23-2006, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadro2000

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see anything in your response that's specific to the HUMMER. Your statement is more about what you like about any car that meets that criteria, not a Hummer itself.

Agreed, but again, I feel that way SPECIFICALLY about the Hummer. I don't feel that way about any other vehicle like a Maybach, Bentley, Lamborghini, Ferarri or even a Cadillac Escalade/Chevy Tahoe (which the H2 platform is based.) Other vehicles may be expensive and get poor fuel economy but none round out in the same manner to me as a Hummer.

It specifically warms me when I am in a foreign country knowing that taxes on vehicles and petrol are high, and I see someone driving a Hummer. I've seen them in a number of the countries I've visited in the past few years. Just like the "What does my girlfriend say about me" thread, a vehicle says plenty about a person, and again, that's why I like Hummers. You guys see it as wasting resources etc. I see it as asshole alert badges.

JustJess · 10-23-2006, 11:39 AM

Now, THAT makes sense. As I said in the OP, I tend to automatically lose respect for anyone lovin' on Hummers. Yech.

Willravel · 10-23-2006, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brewmaniac

Will, I like the way you think. I'd vote for ya!

Willravel in 08, yes!

YES! I've clinched the brewmaniac vote!!! Victory is mine!

Leto · 10-23-2006, 12:17 PM

soo..... it's bad to use more oil? I gather that's the argument. But isn't the oil industry and it's uses what keeps the economy going? I may be being facile here, but what are the options to continue with our standard of living, or should we step down a bit?

filtherton · 10-23-2006, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

soo..... it's bad to use more oil? I gather that's the argument. But isn't the oil industry and it's uses what keeps the economy going? I may be being facile here, but what are the options to continue with our standard of living, or should we step down a bit?

Are you trying to say that our economic success depends on the obscene amount of wasted natural resources used by hummers?

Charlatan · 10-23-2006, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

Are you trying to say that our economic success depends on the obscene amount of wasted natural resources used by hummers?

Given the way our current economic system is structured and the way in which we calculate GDP... the answer is yes.

More waste = a stronger GDP.

If you ride a bicycle to work you are not doing your bit to give your nation a stronger GDP.

(clearly things need to change).

ChrisJericho · 10-23-2006, 05:36 PM

Gotta put in another vote for hating hummers. I'm not such an environmentally-influenced hater (after all I'm a wrx driver), I hate them because they are ugly and have little off-road ability. Why would someone spend that much money on something that:

1) Is slow as hell
2) Is going to get stuck off-road
3) Is made by GM

If someone wants to spend that much money and waste that much gas, get a sports car or a REAL off-road capable vehicle.

I respect the freedom that people have to buy hummers, but those owners should know that 80% of the rest of the drivers on the road will just assume they're a-holes

Zeraph · 10-23-2006, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Given the way our current economic system is structured and the way in which we calculate GDP... the answer is yes.

More waste = a stronger GDP.

If you ride a bicycle to work you are not doing your bit to give your nation a stronger GDP.

(clearly things need to change).

That's overly simplified. GDP is only one measure of the economy and can be misleading.

I hate hummers.

Charlatan · 10-23-2006, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeraph

That's overly simplified. GDP is only one measure of the economy and can be misleading.

...and yet we continue to use it as tool. Our way of measuring the health of an economy needs to change, that's what I ment be we need a change.

la petite moi · 10-23-2006, 07:17 PM

I'm with you JustJess. I HATE Hummers, huge lifted trucks, big SUVs, vans, etc etc. There really is no purpose, unless you work out in muddy fields (trucks) or have a large family (vans). Blah.

Hummers = STUPID.

blade02 · 10-23-2006, 07:21 PM

Hummer H1s and the military spec Humvees are very useful vehicles. H2's on the other hand aren't very useful for anything other than moving around lots of people on paved roads. They arent any worse than Escalades, Suburbans, Tahoes, Expeditions, or any other large SUV. So unless you haul your kids around in a minivan or station wagon, you dont have much room to talk about the H2, and the H3 will be even smaller and more practical.

As far as making a MPG requirement, etc. It should be left to me to decide how much money Im willing to spend on gasoline for my car. Thats the point behind a free market. Its my hard earned money, and I should be able to use it to fuel a V-8 powered muscle car if I freaking want to. If we manage to run out of gasoline, or if gas prices rise too high, then I'll be willing to spend my money on something that doesnt run off gas. Its not like the earth will implode if we use all of the gas, we'll just have to switch to something different. I've never quite understood all of the panic and silliness.

Leto · 10-23-2006, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

Are you trying to say that our economic success depends on the obscene amount of wasted natural resources used by hummers?

Trying? No. I AM saying this.

It's a huuuuuuge part if not the ONLY part of our economic success.

As Charlatan pointed out, things clearly have to change. I just question how? And which is the better way? gradual evolutionary change or abrupt revolutionary change?

If the first world decides to rescind its use of an oil based economy, we will rapidly be subjugated (economically) by the second/third world countries who are no so idealistic.

oh, and no I don't like Hummers. For me it's economic. I cannot, nor do I think it is intelligent to spend on such a vehicle.

Willravel · 10-23-2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blade02

As far as making a MPG requirement, etc. It should be left to me to decide how much money Im willing to spend on gasoline for my car. Thats the point behind a free market. Its my hard earned money, and I should be able to use it to fuel a V-8 powered muscle car if I freaking want to. If we manage to run out of gasoline, or if gas prices rise too high, then I'll be willing to spend my money on something that doesnt run off gas. Its not like the earth will implode if we use all of the gas, we'll just have to switch to something different. I've never quite understood all of the panic and silliness.

Maybe you should drive a car that runs on the blood of Iraqi civilians, or the health of our posterity. It'll be up to you, and damn the consequences. After all, why would the car and oil companies want to sell you something that causes wars or destroys the environment? It's not like they value ridiculous profit over reasonable responsibility, safety and security.

You act like "switching to something different" is like switching from regular to nonfat milk. It's really, really, really, really not that simple. It is, in fact, incredibly difficult, espically because of those jackass oil and car companies you seem to enjoy so much. When they finally lay off, it will be too late. The the H2 will be nothing but a really, really, realy, really big paperweight.

filtherton · 10-23-2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

Trying? No. I AM saying this.

It's a huuuuuuge part if not the ONLY part of our economic success.

As Charlatan pointed out, things clearly have to change. I just question how? And which is the better way? gradual evolutionary change or abrupt revolutionary change?

If the first world decides to rescind its use of an oil based economy, we will rapidly be subjugated (economically) by the second/third world countries who are no so idealistic.

oh, and no I don't like Hummers. For me it's economic. I cannot, nor do I think it is intelligent to spend on such a vehicle.

It doesn't have to be, though. That's why we need to take alternative fuels a whole lot more seriously than we currently do. Our dependence on oil is a huge liability in every possible sense of the word. The fact that hummers exist is just an example of how little we are aware of how big an issue this could end up being.

Charlatan · 10-23-2006, 09:02 PM

Western culture and its position of liberty over equality, with special status for individual rights over that of the collective is where the break is occurring.

The Hummer is just a grander expression of this "me first" ideology. It doesn't stop there, it permeates the culture. In the case of the US is has been taken to extremes and is ultimately America's greatest strength as well as its greatest weakness.

TheClarkster · 10-23-2006, 09:16 PM

Just to add a small point, the H2s are actually quite capable of offroading.
Their approach and departure angles are quite good for moving amongst rocky terrain, and if you lift em, it'll be even better. It's just the fact that nobody actually offroads with them.
Besides, you could get a Jeep for half the price and outperform it offroading in just about every category.
But for the record, I don't like Hummers either.

waltert · 10-23-2006, 11:56 PM

I think they sell because they represent "american" sort of like harleys.

both are poorly assembled, poor performing, excessively bulky, get poor fuel economy...but people buy it for the "image".

I shop to get the most bang for my buck. owning a sport bike and an economy car leaves me giggling like a school girl when gas prices go up.

but I do think its funny that hummer owners complain about fuel economy. it just goes to show how ignorant car buyers really are.
as a side note: I dont know why the H2 doesnt come with a duramax for that price.

my old man's chevy 2500 HD crew cab long bed gets better fuel economy than that....towing a 20,000 lb gooseneck trailer!

JustJess · 10-24-2006, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blade02

Hummer H1s and the military spec Humvees are very useful vehicles. H2's on the other hand aren't very useful for anything other than moving around lots of people on paved roads. They arent any worse than Escalades, Suburbans, Tahoes, Expeditions, or any other large SUV. So unless you haul your kids around in a minivan or station wagon, you dont have much room to talk about the H2, and the H3 will be even smaller and more practical.

As far as making a MPG requirement, etc. It should be left to me to decide how much money Im willing to spend on gasoline for my car. Thats the point behind a free market. Its my hard earned money, and I should be able to use it to fuel a V-8 powered muscle car if I freaking want to. If we manage to run out of gasoline, or if gas prices rise too high, then I'll be willing to spend my money on something that doesnt run off gas. Its not like the earth will implode if we use all of the gas, we'll just have to switch to something different. I've never quite understood all of the panic and silliness.

I don't care how much money you feel like spending - then go burn it in a huge pile in your fireplace, if that's what you want to do. But your choice to waste a whole lot of fuel DOES affect me, and everyone else. It means you're burning through the supply we have even faster, and sending yet more pollution into the air, and you're still in a really huge car in the way and 9 out of 10 times, you're acting like an asshole (that's the general you, not YOU you).

As for SUVs, trucks, etc: I think 8 out of 10 people (and we all know how reliable my decided stats are!

) who own them in MY area (being NYC, Queens, all very urban) are just dicks who want to have huge cars and drive like, well, dicks. They're unnecessary and annoying to the rest of us, and wasteful as hell. Their business? Sure, until they are parking poorly, taking up more than their fair share of space, driving like idiots, etc. So no, they're not any better than Hummers. Hummers are just the most extreme example of the assholes I'm talking about.

I'm not complaining about necessary usage, I'm complaining about ego usage. If you have that much of a complex, buy a sports car and get the hell out of my way.

blade02 · 10-24-2006, 05:55 AM

I'd rather it be me and my friends that use the gasoline driving cars that we enjoy. Than it be foriegn countries using the fossil fuels to power industries with almost zilch for emissions controls and a sole purpose of supplying stores like Wal-Mart with cheap crap. If people really and truely cared about the enviroment and blue collar workers, etc. They wouldnt bother with SUVs that pollute less than "economy" cars did back in the 80s. Instead they'd bother with making sure the US (or any country you call home) is only trading with countries that has emission AND worker standards that are atleast on par with ours. Not that the US's are the best, but Im willing to wager that our factories are a whole lot greener than some of the less technologically advanced countries we trade with. Until we do that, passing stricter enviromental policies simply gives more companies incentive to build factories outside of the country.

As far as switching fuels, etc. It will happen when it becomes economically sound to do it. When gas prices jump up and stay there for a year or so, there will be lots of money to be gained by finally switching over. But it will be very expensive to switch from the current infrastructure of pipe lines and depots, etc. Which is why I dont expect a sudden change. I expect something gradual, like hybrids slowly gaining popularity, a handful hydrogen cars being bought by city and state organizations, etc. Something awfully similiar to what is happening right now. But if you're really worried about running out of oil, you're more than welcome to go buy some and stock pile it for future use.

silent_jay · 10-24-2006, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

I never really caught onto the Hummer. I thought they were pretty decent as a military vehicle, but when produced commercially, well, they were derivative of the LM002, my sweetheart car:

I liked this baby when I first saw it at the Toronto Autoshow, especially since it looked like it would take a lane & a half !!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamborghini_LM002

I love the LM, what a gorgeous piece of kit that is.

As for the Hummer, I like the original, I hate the H2 with a passion, and I want to slap anyone who purchases an H3, so I guess I hate the majority of them, aside from the original.

catback · 10-24-2006, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJess

I don't care how much money you feel like spending - then go burn it in a huge pile in your fireplace, if that's what you want to do. But your choice to waste a whole lot of fuel DOES affect me, and everyone else. It means you're burning through the supply we have even faster, and sending yet more pollution into the air, and you're still in a really huge car in the way and 9 out of 10 times, you're acting like an asshole (that's the general you, not YOU you).

As for SUVs, trucks, etc: I think 8 out of 10 people (and we all know how reliable my decided stats are!

) who own them in MY area (being NYC, Queens, all very urban) are just dicks who want to have huge cars and drive like, well, dicks. They're unnecessary and annoying to the rest of us, and wasteful as hell. Their business? Sure, until they are parking poorly, taking up more than their fair share of space, driving like idiots, etc. So no, they're not any better than Hummers. Hummers are just the most extreme example of the assholes I'm talking about.

I'm not complaining about necessary usage, I'm complaining about ego usage. If you have that much of a complex, buy a sports car and get the hell out of my way.

I can only assume your car is electric or at the very least a compact hybrid, for anything bigger is a waste of gas in which you would join group of dicks that you despise. Granted this thread really isn't about hummers but instead your hate for people who can have excess without even blinking an eye but not even freedom is free. Having to live with the decisions people make, whether you like them or not, is the cost of having freedom. Deal with it! If you really wanna gripe I think being concerned that north korea is playing with nukes is more a concern than your neighbors driving big SUV's.

The original Hummer H1 is a great utility vehicle. Why you may ask, just ask any military officer who has used/been in one. Now the H2 and the H3 are crap because they are nothing like the H1, they are just dumbed down fancy large SUV's like the escalade because the general public doesn't need nor can they afford military grade hardware.

Last thought, you have to keep in mind although not everyone needs a large vehicle some people actually do. Your not gonna fit a family of 6 in a toyota prius, nor would you trailer a 24' boat with it. Now granted when they don't need the use of a larger vehicle they could drive a smaller one but not everyone can afford or keep an extra vehicle.

JustJess · 10-24-2006, 11:34 AM

Okay - while I am serious in that I feel the average person who lives in QUEENS does not need a Hummer, that no one does due to the uselessness of them, the wastefulness of them, you're taking me a bit too seriously. Some SUVs are used well, and certainly a lot of trucks are. But not so much in QUEENS which was in my post that you quoted.

I'm sure the H1 was great - IN THE MILITARY. I am all for freedom, and doing what we want as long as we don't hurt others, but I feel that buying something that gets 10 mpg is just a ridiculous sign of asshole qualities I do not wish to associate with. I feel that people should have some semblance of social responsibility. In my head, I wouldn't buy an H2 etc. for the same reasons I wouldn't buy products made by sweatshops in China, and for the same reasons I wouldn't drive drunk (it's not just my life, it's my life affecting others around me).

My car is a Subaru Outback wagon - more space, since we haul a lot of stuff for ourselves, our family, and our neighbors, but still gets 27 mpg. Not my ideal, by any stretch, but certainly not in the 10mpg class of vehicle. And we usually use public transportation 9 days out of 10 anyway. So no, I don't consider myself a hypocrite.

Sage · 10-24-2006, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Its not like the earth will implode if we use all of the gas

Actually, if everyone on earth completely and totally ran out of crude oil tommorow, the entire world would grind to a halt. Everything anywhere that ever does anything depends on oil, either for production, packaging, supply lines, getting the workers to the factory, electricity for the plant, powering the pumps for the water, harvesting food, hell, even printing the money that workers are paid with. It'd be like all the Phillip Dick stories all came true at once.

That being said, I agree that H2's and H3's are giant "I'm an asshole" badges. That is my opnion.

surferlove007 · 10-24-2006, 10:15 PM

I've heard that the hummer's is just the only difference from an otherwise explorer type chasy making it hardly decent for any sort of offroading. Who knows?
I do not like many SUV's in general. I drive a VW bug, I like to believe I'm being more environmentally sound than those soccer moms driving their massive suburbans, however every car has its drawbacks for the environment....might as well pick your poisen.
This topic brings to mind the movie "Be Cool" which was the sequal to "Get Shorty" the movie was awful however it did talk about how awful the mileage was for hummers, something like 9 a gallon? Jeez. I get around 35 highway with mine, I love my car to pieces however it has this awful tendency to get hit in the bumper...
I believe the government should put a ban on the number of SUV type vehicles produced every certain number of years and then see where the gas-prices fall and see how much we save.
Who knows, everything is so controversial.

blade02 · 10-25-2006, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage

Actually, if everyone on earth completely and totally ran out of crude oil tommorow, the entire world would grind to a halt. Everything anywhere that ever does anything depends on oil, either for production, packaging, supply lines, getting the workers to the factory, electricity for the plant, powering the pumps for the water, harvesting food, hell, even printing the money that workers are paid with. It'd be like all the Phillip Dick stories all came true at once.

That being said, I agree that H2's and H3's are giant "I'm an asshole" badges. That is my opnion.

You'd think that enviromentalist would be happy with that.. No oil... no more pollution. Atleast thats the feeling I get from some of the truely crazy whackjobs that think the earth would be better off with only a few select members of the "enviromentally conscious" living on it.

Oh and things like electricity SHOULD already be completely swapped over from fossil fuels. We have nice options like Nuclear power plants, Hydro electric, etc. But guess who doesn't want us to use those? The same people that dont want us using fossil fuels! So until they come up with something better. I say screw em.

As far as how much the government should be involved: If something is in the nation's best interest, like swapping from oil to alternative fuels for cars, then the burden should be on the government to fund and follow through with the research. We have a great economy based off of free markets, where the ONLY reason you'd ever go into business is to make a PROFIT. When you are a big corperation its not your goal to provide jobs to people, or to save humanity. Your only goal is to make money. The less government is involved in the economy, the better the economy can conform to meet the demands of the people. So dont blame oil companies for finding a wonderful/ ingenious way of making money. Infact, when it does come time for the switch from oil to other fuels, Im banking on the big oil corperations to do all sorts of research and be the ones that provide a solution. If they let someone else come up with the solution, they all lose. So its in their best financial interests to eventually be the ones to become "energy providers" instead of oil companies.

10-23-2006, 07:32 AM	#4 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Sorry... I thought this was tilted sexuality... nevermind. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

10-23-2006, 10:08 AM	#6 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	What I like about hummers is that you get the choice to like or not like them and most importantly you get the choice to purchase or not purchase one. In other countries you don't get such a choice. You have mandates that control the market and cannot get certain vehicles no matter how hard one tries. In India you don't have a choice but to buy Indian manufactured vehicles, even if it's Japanese is still has to be assembled in India. In Singapore they tax at approx. 125% Sale value when I was living there in 1988. They also taxed based on engine size for yearly costs. It was VERY expensive to own even an inexpensive Toyota Corolla. Iceland is very expensive for petrol, yet a good number of people drive SuperJeeps, vehicles that make a Hummer look like a small vehicle. Iceland also heavily taxes their vehicles and petrol. But again, people have the freedom to do what they want with their money. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

10-23-2006, 10:24 AM	#7 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	Sooooo... what you're saying is that you like living in the U.S. Fair enough, I do too. I still hate Hummers, H2s, and anything else along those lines. They're still useless, wasteful, awful cars. __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

10-23-2006, 10:41 AM	#8 (permalink)
Scorps Lost!! Location: Kingston, Ontario	The H1 is great but the H2 and 3 are just ugly as hell. __________________ A.K.A. PainTrain

10-23-2006, 10:45 AM	#10 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	Why is the H1 "great"? Can you give us a little more info than that? You are, after all, posting in avowed rant on hating Hummers in general - hit us with something substantive! __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

10-23-2006, 07:23 AM	#2 (permalink)
Leto Junkie Location: The Danforth	I never really caught onto the Hummer. I thought they were pretty decent as a military vehicle, but when produced commercially, well, they were derivative of the LM002, my sweetheart car: I liked this baby when I first saw it at the Toronto Autoshow, especially since it looked like it would take a lane & a half !!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamborghini_LM002

10-23-2006, 07:23 AM	#3 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I hate Hummers, yes I do. I hate Hummers, how 'bout you? They are physical representations of excess, like little, portable Costcos driving all the lazy, impulsive, stereotypical people (as JustJess said) into a bleak future. Ten miles per galon is so far past stupid, that I must use a new word for it: Bush. It's Bush to drive a Hummer. If it were up to me, no car would exist that got less than 35 mpg, AND every manufacturer would be required to have half their lineup as hyrid vehicles, AND also have an active program to develop and alternate energy vehicle. Why isn't it up to me? Well, those things aren't cost effective for the oil companies, and also conservatives just naturally don't like listening to me.

10-23-2006, 11:13 AM	#14 (permalink)
quadro2000 All Possibility, Made Of Custard Location: New York, NY	We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see anything in your response that's specific to the HUMMER. Your statement is more about what you like about any car that meets that criteria, not a Hummer itself. __________________ You have to laugh at yourself...because you'd cry your eyes out if you didn't. - Emily Saliers

10-23-2006, 11:39 AM	#17 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	Now, THAT makes sense. As I said in the OP, I tend to automatically lose respect for anyone lovin' on Hummers. Yech. __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

10-23-2006, 12:17 PM	#19 (permalink)
Leto Junkie Location: The Danforth	soo..... it's bad to use more oil? I gather that's the argument. But isn't the oil industry and it's uses what keeps the economy going? I may be being facile here, but what are the options to continue with our standard of living, or should we step down a bit?

10-23-2006, 05:36 PM	#22 (permalink)
ChrisJericho eat more fruit Location: Seattle	Gotta put in another vote for hating hummers. I'm not such an environmentally-influenced hater (after all I'm a wrx driver), I hate them because they are ugly and have little off-road ability. Why would someone spend that much money on something that: 1) Is slow as hell 2) Is going to get stuck off-road 3) Is made by GM If someone wants to spend that much money and waste that much gas, get a sports car or a REAL off-road capable vehicle. I respect the freedom that people have to buy hummers, but those owners should know that 80% of the rest of the drivers on the road will just assume they're a-holes __________________ "A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows us that faith proves nothing." - Friedrich Nietzsche

10-23-2006, 07:17 PM	#25 (permalink)
la petite moi Filling the Void. Location: California	I'm with you JustJess. I HATE Hummers, huge lifted trucks, big SUVs, vans, etc etc. There really is no purpose, unless you work out in muddy fields (trucks) or have a large family (vans). Blah. Hummers = STUPID.

10-23-2006, 07:21 PM	#26 (permalink)
blade02 Insane	Hummer H1s and the military spec Humvees are very useful vehicles. H2's on the other hand aren't very useful for anything other than moving around lots of people on paved roads. They arent any worse than Escalades, Suburbans, Tahoes, Expeditions, or any other large SUV. So unless you haul your kids around in a minivan or station wagon, you dont have much room to talk about the H2, and the H3 will be even smaller and more practical. As far as making a MPG requirement, etc. It should be left to me to decide how much money Im willing to spend on gasoline for my car. Thats the point behind a free market. Its my hard earned money, and I should be able to use it to fuel a V-8 powered muscle car if I freaking want to. If we manage to run out of gasoline, or if gas prices rise too high, then I'll be willing to spend my money on something that doesnt run off gas. Its not like the earth will implode if we use all of the gas, we'll just have to switch to something different. I've never quite understood all of the panic and silliness.

10-23-2006, 09:02 PM	#30 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Western culture and its position of liberty over equality, with special status for individual rights over that of the collective is where the break is occurring. The Hummer is just a grander expression of this "me first" ideology. It doesn't stop there, it permeates the culture. In the case of the US is has been taken to extremes and is ultimately America's greatest strength as well as its greatest weakness. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

10-23-2006, 09:16 PM	#31 (permalink)
TheClarkster Very Proud of Ya Location: Simi Valley, CA	Just to add a small point, the H2s are actually quite capable of offroading. Their approach and departure angles are quite good for moving amongst rocky terrain, and if you lift em, it'll be even better. It's just the fact that nobody actually offroads with them. Besides, you could get a Jeep for half the price and outperform it offroading in just about every category. But for the record, I don't like Hummers either. __________________ Do not speak Latin in front of the books.

10-23-2006, 11:56 PM	#32 (permalink)
waltert Insane	I think they sell because they represent "american" sort of like harleys. both are poorly assembled, poor performing, excessively bulky, get poor fuel economy...but people buy it for the "image". I shop to get the most bang for my buck. owning a sport bike and an economy car leaves me giggling like a school girl when gas prices go up. but I do think its funny that hummer owners complain about fuel economy. it just goes to show how ignorant car buyers really are. as a side note: I dont know why the H2 doesnt come with a duramax for that price. my old man's chevy 2500 HD crew cab long bed gets better fuel economy than that....towing a 20,000 lb gooseneck trailer! Last edited by waltert; 10-24-2006 at 12:02 AM..

10-24-2006, 05:55 AM	#34 (permalink)
blade02 Insane	I'd rather it be me and my friends that use the gasoline driving cars that we enjoy. Than it be foriegn countries using the fossil fuels to power industries with almost zilch for emissions controls and a sole purpose of supplying stores like Wal-Mart with cheap crap. If people really and truely cared about the enviroment and blue collar workers, etc. They wouldnt bother with SUVs that pollute less than "economy" cars did back in the 80s. Instead they'd bother with making sure the US (or any country you call home) is only trading with countries that has emission AND worker standards that are atleast on par with ours. Not that the US's are the best, but Im willing to wager that our factories are a whole lot greener than some of the less technologically advanced countries we trade with. Until we do that, passing stricter enviromental policies simply gives more companies incentive to build factories outside of the country. As far as switching fuels, etc. It will happen when it becomes economically sound to do it. When gas prices jump up and stay there for a year or so, there will be lots of money to be gained by finally switching over. But it will be very expensive to switch from the current infrastructure of pipe lines and depots, etc. Which is why I dont expect a sudden change. I expect something gradual, like hybrids slowly gaining popularity, a handful hydrogen cars being bought by city and state organizations, etc. Something awfully similiar to what is happening right now. But if you're really worried about running out of oil, you're more than welcome to go buy some and stock pile it for future use.

10-24-2006, 11:34 AM	#37 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	Okay - while I am serious in that I feel the average person who lives in QUEENS does not need a Hummer, that no one does due to the uselessness of them, the wastefulness of them, you're taking me a bit too seriously. Some SUVs are used well, and certainly a lot of trucks are. But not so much in QUEENS which was in my post that you quoted. I'm sure the H1 was great - IN THE MILITARY. I am all for freedom, and doing what we want as long as we don't hurt others, but I feel that buying something that gets 10 mpg is just a ridiculous sign of asshole qualities I do not wish to associate with. I feel that people should have some semblance of social responsibility. In my head, I wouldn't buy an H2 etc. for the same reasons I wouldn't buy products made by sweatshops in China, and for the same reasons I wouldn't drive drunk (it's not just my life, it's my life affecting others around me). My car is a Subaru Outback wagon - more space, since we haul a lot of stuff for ourselves, our family, and our neighbors, but still gets 27 mpg. Not my ideal, by any stretch, but certainly not in the 10mpg class of vehicle. And we usually use public transportation 9 days out of 10 anyway. So no, I don't consider myself a hypocrite. __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

10-24-2006, 10:15 PM	#39 (permalink)
surferlove007 Junkie	I've heard that the hummer's is just the only difference from an otherwise explorer type chasy making it hardly decent for any sort of offroading. Who knows? I do not like many SUV's in general. I drive a VW bug, I like to believe I'm being more environmentally sound than those soccer moms driving their massive suburbans, however every car has its drawbacks for the environment....might as well pick your poisen. This topic brings to mind the movie "Be Cool" which was the sequal to "Get Shorty" the movie was awful however it did talk about how awful the mileage was for hummers, something like 9 a gallon? Jeez. I get around 35 highway with mine, I love my car to pieces however it has this awful tendency to get hit in the bumper... I believe the government should put a ban on the number of SUV type vehicles produced every certain number of years and then see where the gas-prices fall and see how much we save. Who knows, everything is so controversial.