Dyno day results (fun, not particularly happy) - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

DEI37 · 04-23-2006, 11:15 AM

Took the Olds out to a dyno facility in Appleton, WI yesterday to see what it laid down. Kind of a disappointing run, really, but we know where there is work to be done, kinda.

In the end, it made half the boost it should have, I noticed and exhaust leak, and it all threw the HP numbers off.

Peak numbers were:
173.8 HP @ 4808 RPM (stock engines lay down more than that)
261.4 Ft Lb Torque @ 2656 RPM

Torque drops off too much, so we need to find the problems there. Tuning will definitely do this car some good, as will finding why I only put 4.4 psi in the engine, instead of 9psi or so.

Those power numbers are at the wheels, though, so that accounts for a 20% or so loss from the crankshaft.

Crank numbers would have been:
217.3 HP @ 4808 RPM (stock for the engine is 240, stock for the car is 160)
326.8 Ft Lb Torque @ 2656 RPM (stock is 280, stock for the car is 185)

Even with the disappointment (due to the car and its setup, not the dyno facility), we had a lot of fun, and I learned some stuff.

Here is a pic of said car:

Here is scan of dyno sheet:

BadNick · 04-24-2006, 06:11 AM

Intersting project ...at least to another boost nut like me. ('95 Supra, stock boost 11psi, mine is set up to boost as high as 24+psi octane permitting, but I set the controller to keep it around 17psi for normal pump premium). Are you planning to race this or is it just a "because I can" kinda thing?

The lower than planned boost could be a boost leak somewhere between the turbo compressor outlet and the intake, I don't think an exhaust leak would effect it this much unless it was pre-turbo on the exhaust manifold or also a possibility is a wastegate leak or wrong wastegate spring.

What are you running for engine management? ...fuel, timing, etc.

waltert · 04-24-2006, 01:56 PM

it looks supercharged to me, nick.

have you perhaps considered that your blower might need to be replaced or rebuilt? I guess all you can do short of a new blower is check for leaks =/

DEI37 · 04-24-2006, 03:27 PM

Yeah, it's supercharged. I'm hoping that the blower isn't the problem. But, at 115,000 miles, you never know. I'm gonna go through the vac system, and see if anything is loose or disconnected.

For management, I am using a DHP PCM, and have a tuner kit for the laptop on the way. I still run stock injectors, heads, cam, & valvetrain. Use a full 3" exhaust and a cone filter that needs to be shielded or rerouted to intake cooler air. One guy picked up 60HP and 50ft lb in an hour of punching some keys on the laptop...that's just cool.

merkerguitars · 04-24-2006, 09:05 PM

Those eaton blowers usually last for a hell of a long time, I highly doubt its wore out. Get a propane torch and check for leaks around the intake, heck you should even be able to feel for leaks, since the engine is pretty wide open and easy access. I'll check my buddys engine and look to see what could possibly be the problem.

BadNick · 04-25-2006, 08:24 AM

ahhh, supercharged is good too ...but being a turbo wacko I missed that point, wherever it was.

DEI37 · 04-25-2006, 03:01 PM

You would have had to have gone to the CarDomain link in my sig to know that. I didn't say it outright. The more I think about it, and listen some, that exhaust leak I thought I heard doesn't sound so much like an exhaust leak. Gotta listen a little closer, and really go through that vac system.

BadNick · 04-26-2006, 05:56 AM

I did miss that so I just checked it out now. Nice job on those wheels, too. Even though I'm a car nut, the niche of the L67 universe was not on my map, even though I am aware of the supercharger application on some V6 GM cars. Now I know that if I combine the LS6 and LS7 it might turn into an L67.

Good luck tracking down the bugs and I'll look here for an update as you develop this further.

Martian · 04-26-2006, 06:38 AM

BadNick : Swapping just about any GM trans V6 to an L67 is a fairly popular modification. There's even wiring harnesses out to streamline the process.

In a perfect world I'd do this to my Monte Carlo (Z34) and drop in a Getrag transmission behind it. It would be a fuckload of work, but it'd be cool to have a blown, standard 99 Monte.

BadNick · 04-26-2006, 12:00 PM

I was just recently reading about another possible track car (road courses) that is designed to fit the GM V6 since ..as they said "plentiful and cheap as dirt at junk yards".

...Getrag... I can relate to that too since I'm shifting a Getrag 6sp, manual not auto. This tranny seems nearly indestructible.

DEI37 · 04-26-2006, 03:56 PM

Yeah, running a manual trans behind them does involve more work. The guy that actually did the work on mine to swap it is working on a G6 GTP 6-speed conversion. Think he's got it bolted together, but not yet in a car.

waltert · 04-26-2006, 06:33 PM

do you have the A/F printout?

DEI37 · 04-26-2006, 08:01 PM

I do, just didn't scan it in. The AFR's at WOT were in the low to mid 12's. Apparently, the guys talk about liking to see mid 11's at WOT with these engines. Of course, since this is what it was, I do not know cruise AFR's. It is rich at idle, I do know that.

waltert · 04-26-2006, 11:04 PM

mid 11s sounds a bit rich to me, but im sure they're dealt with that setup more than I have and know what it "prefers"

good luck finding where your boost is going!

DEI37 · 04-30-2006, 06:43 PM

I did end up finding what is a problem...just got to find out yet if it is THE problem. At the MAP sensor, there is a very loose connection, and torn rubber. Going to probably install a boost guage, and "t" it in there. Then...we'll know.

DEI37 · 09-13-2006, 03:26 PM

This is now way old, but there are updates.

Found the boost problem, and now see 10-12psi. It will smoke the front tires pretty easy now. Have the Knock Retard under control with crazy fuel. Created an exhaust leak somewhere along the line, though. Not happy about that. It has not been back to the dyno, and probably won't until next season. However, it is planned to go to the track in November, and see what kind of times it lays down.

BadNick · 09-14-2006, 11:28 AM

Nice, and sounds like good progress.

Even without a dyno, I think your 1/4mi trap speed compared to your actual weight will give you a very close estimate of your whp. Don't you think?

Since I mentioned mine above, as of last few weeks mine now has a single turbo (larger than my original stock twin turbos together), new fuel rail and larger injectors, dual intank pumps, FJO wideband O2 sensor/display, MAP ECU fuel controller, raised rev limit, etc. No dyno yet for me either, but I'll probably dyno tune in a couple weeks or so just to double check all is well. It feels VERY strong but I wish it was a little quieter. I almost hope I find an exhaust leak to account for that since I can fix that ...but I think that's just the way it is.

DEI37 · 09-22-2006, 07:20 PM

That's what I like about mine. For the most part, it's fairly quiet. Been by a couple cops, and they haven't blinked an eye. Once the revs come up past about 3000, at WOT, it's noisy, and it's screamin' with the blower and the exhaust between 5500-6100rpm. That draws attention big time! I found out the other day that my injectors are maxed. Have a 19.87ms IPW at 598x rpm. Calculations tell me that static is 20ms. So, for now, knock control is done by pulling a little timing in a couple of trouble areas, and not increasing it so much in the good areas. Thing still pulls pretty hard, though. Have a couple of people looking at my PCM .bin and some scans, and they've put together another PCM .bin for me to test out.

Nick, you got any pics of that ride of yours? Sounds cool.

Merker, I'm curious...who's your buddy? Have a feeling I might know who he is.

BadNick · 09-23-2006, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEI37

That's what I like about mine. For the most part, it's fairly quiet. Been by a couple cops, and they haven't blinked an eye....Nick, you got any pics of that ride of yours? Sounds cool...

I've never been hassled about "loudness" by cops either ...yet. I try never to be WOT when they're around.

A while back I posted two little pics of my car in this thread http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=102651 ...the bigger one is at the top of the steps to the Phila Art Museum and I like that shot a lot. The other one is me at Pocono for an open track day being chased by some pesky slow guy

I did take a few pics of my new motor setup, but haven't pulled them from the camera yet, I'll probably get them together this week. Here is my new exhaust manifold and wastegate setup, but I didn't get it with this turbo ...mine is all polished nice and shiney

PS: sorry to intrude so much in your thread but you asked and talking about my car is a weakness I have

DEI37 · 09-30-2006, 04:25 PM

Yeah, I did ask. I like hearing about other peoples' rides. I'm sorta proud of mine, though wish the body was in better shape. That's life, though...yours looks nice, though.

04-23-2006, 11:15 AM	#1 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Dyno day results (fun, not particularly happy) Took the Olds out to a dyno facility in Appleton, WI yesterday to see what it laid down. Kind of a disappointing run, really, but we know where there is work to be done, kinda. In the end, it made half the boost it should have, I noticed and exhaust leak, and it all threw the HP numbers off. Peak numbers were: 173.8 HP @ 4808 RPM (stock engines lay down more than that) 261.4 Ft Lb Torque @ 2656 RPM Torque drops off too much, so we need to find the problems there. Tuning will definitely do this car some good, as will finding why I only put 4.4 psi in the engine, instead of 9psi or so. Those power numbers are at the wheels, though, so that accounts for a 20% or so loss from the crankshaft. Crank numbers would have been: 217.3 HP @ 4808 RPM (stock for the engine is 240, stock for the car is 160) 326.8 Ft Lb Torque @ 2656 RPM (stock is 280, stock for the car is 185) Even with the disappointment (due to the car and its setup, not the dyno facility), we had a lot of fun, and I learned some stuff. Here is a pic of said car: Here is scan of dyno sheet: __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

04-24-2006, 06:11 AM	#2 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	Intersting project ...at least to another boost nut like me. ('95 Supra, stock boost 11psi, mine is set up to boost as high as 24+psi octane permitting, but I set the controller to keep it around 17psi for normal pump premium). Are you planning to race this or is it just a "because I can" kinda thing? The lower than planned boost could be a boost leak somewhere between the turbo compressor outlet and the intake, I don't think an exhaust leak would effect it this much unless it was pre-turbo on the exhaust manifold or also a possibility is a wastegate leak or wrong wastegate spring. What are you running for engine management? ...fuel, timing, etc. Last edited by BadNick; 04-24-2006 at 10:39 AM..

04-24-2006, 03:27 PM	#4 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Yeah, it's supercharged. I'm hoping that the blower isn't the problem. But, at 115,000 miles, you never know. I'm gonna go through the vac system, and see if anything is loose or disconnected. For management, I am using a DHP PCM, and have a tuner kit for the laptop on the way. I still run stock injectors, heads, cam, & valvetrain. Use a full 3" exhaust and a cone filter that needs to be shielded or rerouted to intake cooler air. One guy picked up 60HP and 50ft lb in an hour of punching some keys on the laptop...that's just cool. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

04-24-2006, 09:05 PM	#5 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Those eaton blowers usually last for a hell of a long time, I highly doubt its wore out. Get a propane torch and check for leaks around the intake, heck you should even be able to feel for leaks, since the engine is pretty wide open and easy access. I'll check my buddys engine and look to see what could possibly be the problem. __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

04-25-2006, 03:01 PM	#7 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	You would have had to have gone to the CarDomain link in my sig to know that. I didn't say it outright. The more I think about it, and listen some, that exhaust leak I thought I heard doesn't sound so much like an exhaust leak. Gotta listen a little closer, and really go through that vac system. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

04-24-2006, 01:56 PM	#3 (permalink)
waltert Insane	it looks supercharged to me, nick. have you perhaps considered that your blower might need to be replaced or rebuilt? I guess all you can do short of a new blower is check for leaks =/

04-25-2006, 08:24 AM	#6 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	ahhh, supercharged is good too ...but being a turbo wacko I missed that point, wherever it was.

04-26-2006, 05:56 AM	#8 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	I did miss that so I just checked it out now. Nice job on those wheels, too. Even though I'm a car nut, the niche of the L67 universe was not on my map, even though I am aware of the supercharger application on some V6 GM cars. Now I know that if I combine the LS6 and LS7 it might turn into an L67. Good luck tracking down the bugs and I'll look here for an update as you develop this further.

04-26-2006, 06:38 AM	#9 (permalink)
Martian Young Crumudgeon Location: Canada	BadNick : Swapping just about any GM trans V6 to an L67 is a fairly popular modification. There's even wiring harnesses out to streamline the process. In a perfect world I'd do this to my Monte Carlo (Z34) and drop in a Getrag transmission behind it. It would be a fuckload of work, but it'd be cool to have a blown, standard 99 Monte. __________________ I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

04-26-2006, 12:00 PM	#10 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	I was just recently reading about another possible track car (road courses) that is designed to fit the GM V6 since ..as they said "plentiful and cheap as dirt at junk yards". ...Getrag... I can relate to that too since I'm shifting a Getrag 6sp, manual not auto. This tranny seems nearly indestructible.

04-26-2006, 03:56 PM	#11 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Yeah, running a manual trans behind them does involve more work. The guy that actually did the work on mine to swap it is working on a G6 GTP 6-speed conversion. Think he's got it bolted together, but not yet in a car. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

04-26-2006, 06:33 PM	#12 (permalink)
waltert Insane	do you have the A/F printout?

04-26-2006, 08:01 PM	#13 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	I do, just didn't scan it in. The AFR's at WOT were in the low to mid 12's. Apparently, the guys talk about liking to see mid 11's at WOT with these engines. Of course, since this is what it was, I do not know cruise AFR's. It is rich at idle, I do know that. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

04-26-2006, 11:04 PM	#14 (permalink)
waltert Insane	mid 11s sounds a bit rich to me, but im sure they're dealt with that setup more than I have and know what it "prefers" good luck finding where your boost is going!

04-30-2006, 06:43 PM	#15 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	I did end up finding what is a problem...just got to find out yet if it is THE problem. At the MAP sensor, there is a very loose connection, and torn rubber. Going to probably install a boost guage, and "t" it in there. Then...we'll know. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

09-13-2006, 03:26 PM	#16 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	This is now way old, but there are updates. Found the boost problem, and now see 10-12psi. It will smoke the front tires pretty easy now. Have the Knock Retard under control with crazy fuel. Created an exhaust leak somewhere along the line, though. Not happy about that. It has not been back to the dyno, and probably won't until next season. However, it is planned to go to the track in November, and see what kind of times it lays down. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

09-14-2006, 11:28 AM	#17 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	Nice, and sounds like good progress. Even without a dyno, I think your 1/4mi trap speed compared to your actual weight will give you a very close estimate of your whp. Don't you think? Since I mentioned mine above, as of last few weeks mine now has a single turbo (larger than my original stock twin turbos together), new fuel rail and larger injectors, dual intank pumps, FJO wideband O2 sensor/display, MAP ECU fuel controller, raised rev limit, etc. No dyno yet for me either, but I'll probably dyno tune in a couple weeks or so just to double check all is well. It feels VERY strong but I wish it was a little quieter. I almost hope I find an exhaust leak to account for that since I can fix that ...but I think that's just the way it is.

09-22-2006, 07:20 PM	#18 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	That's what I like about mine. For the most part, it's fairly quiet. Been by a couple cops, and they haven't blinked an eye. Once the revs come up past about 3000, at WOT, it's noisy, and it's screamin' with the blower and the exhaust between 5500-6100rpm. That draws attention big time! I found out the other day that my injectors are maxed. Have a 19.87ms IPW at 598x rpm. Calculations tell me that static is 20ms. So, for now, knock control is done by pulling a little timing in a couple of trouble areas, and not increasing it so much in the good areas. Thing still pulls pretty hard, though. Have a couple of people looking at my PCM .bin and some scans, and they've put together another PCM .bin for me to test out. Nick, you got any pics of that ride of yours? Sounds cool. Merker, I'm curious...who's your buddy? Have a feeling I might know who he is. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

09-30-2006, 04:25 PM	#20 (permalink)
DEI37 Go faster! Location: Wisconsin	Yeah, I did ask. I like hearing about other peoples' rides. I'm sorta proud of mine, though wish the body was in better shape. That's life, though...yours looks nice, though. __________________ Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.