lurkette

I have a friend, Deb, who is a complete attention whore. She's pretty - she's got curly blonde hair, big boobs (D), and is a big old flirt/drama queen. She spent her entire adolescence trying to get as many men as possible to like her, and she still does this (despite the fact that she's married - her husband doesn't mind).

Friday night we were at a swing dance before a workshop. A few of the people there had come from out of town, and some of them had been with Deb at a swing dance workshop earlier this year in Boston. At some point, I looked across the dance floor, and there she was, sitting on the floor, surrounded by 3 of the best dancers (men) giving her back and hand and leg rubs. And I just got SOOOO mad. All of a sudden I was back in 8th grade at a high school dance and my friend Sharlet (who's also pretty, blond, and stacked) was sitting on the bleachers surrounded by all of the guys I was interested in, just hanging on every move and gesture. And nobody was paying attention to me. I felt (back in 8th grade and on Friday) so ugly and invisible. Like I'll never be that pretty, that "popular," that....wanted.

Now, part of the reason this bugs me is just good old-fashioned jealousy. And part of it is that she acts all stupid about it, like she doesn't know she's doing it. One of the guys on the floor had come to spend the weekend not knowing she was married and thinking he was, well, spending the weekend with her. And she complained about how another one would always grab her to dance after classes and never gave her a chance to dance with anyone else. HELLO?!? You encourage this behavior! Be fucking responsible!!!

Anyhow, the problem is not really her behavior. She's not doing it to spite me. She's going to do whatever she's going to do. The problem is why it bothers me so much. And I don't know. The same behavior in anybody else would probably just make me roll my eyes. But when SHE does it, all of a sudden I feel like I'm ugly, stupid, a terrible dancer, completely worthless. She wears these short skirts and low-cut shirts, and it just makes me LIVID. I could just as well say "what a pathetic cry for attention" and feel sorry for her, but I don't - I feel mad at her for being such an attention whore, and desperately sad and hopeless because (in my head) I can't wear short skirts (I have fat thighs) and I'm flat-chested and have bags under my eyes, and I'll never be able to "compete." She'll always win in the 'getting attention' game.

I feel the same way when she comes to parties. She spends the whole time being vivacious and trying to be the center of attention and hugging everyone and I feel like, introvert that I am, nobody's going to pay any attention to me so why bother? Really, there's nothing keeping me from being just as outgoing as she is except my own insecurities and my basic temperament.

So why the fuck do I care? I feel double bad because this is so petty and childish. How can I get over this so I can feel okay regardless of what she does?

Help!!!

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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Carno

Well, several times I typed out responses, and each time I deleted them. I don't really know how to help you, since that has never happened to me. Seems to me that girls are a LOT more prone to jealousy than guys.

What I would do is just distance myself from that person. That's usually what I do when I have any problem with a person though. I have no tips on how to remain friends with a person while not being jealous anymore

Just try and make a conscious decision that you won't be jealous of her anymore. Every time you feel jealousy just stop and tell yourself that you don't care and you aren't going to be jealous any longer.

Not much, but that's the best I could come up with...

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Salomon

Of course, you know yourself best, but...this is a message board right?

It seems to me that the quickest, surest-fire way for a lady to get attention (positive or negative) is to dress provocatively. Guys are easy...it is easy to get our attention, simple as that. It is easy, because we are visual creatures, and we love women. A cardboard cutout dressed provocatively will turn our heads every time.

So, now that you know our vulnerability - leverage it to your advantage. Although you may be introverted, although you may find it tacky or beneath you, if you want a sure-fire way to attract men, Dress Provocatively. Easiest thing in the world. You don't have to say a thing, or move a muscle. They will come to you. Like honeybees to honey. Simple as that.

TM875

There's a point which I think we all go through when we really wish we had the abilities of another person. I spent quite a few years of my life like that - no matter how good my work was, or what I accomplished, I always wanted something more or different. I wished that I had what others had.

After a while, and getting tired of grasping for straws, I just worked my self out of it and regained the confidence that I needed to step away from that. You can do the same thing - it just takes time and a little dedication.

Look at all that you have going for you in life - everything that makes you happy - and compare it to what your friend has. Yeah, she's married, but she's still so insecure that she has to go out flirting with random guys. She is still acting like she's 18 when you've matured way past that. She hasn't yet found stability in her life, and certainly hasn't found the self that she wants.

Of course, it's always nice to be wanted by people. However, there is also a line that shouldn't be crossed. You have a right to be annoyed by her behavior, but you shouldn't allow that to upset you. In the end, you'll end up the better person.

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"I've made only one mistake in my life. But I made it over and over and over. That was saying 'yes' when I meant 'no'. Forgive me."

Salomon

^ A wiser post than mine.

analog

I have said this to many people, most often myself...

If you weren't what you are now, you wouldn't be who you are now... and who you are is more important than what you are.

Genuine people (like you, lurky) are liked for genuine reasons, and superficial/artificial people are liked for superficial and artificial reasons. As nice as it may look, that type of attention is always fleeting and not satisfying... because it only lasts as long as the body does.

*hugs lurkette* You've got nothing to be jealous for.

maleficent

I have so little patience with attention whores because take away the whoriness, and they have nothing... no personality, no charm, and most importantly, no substance.

Why would you want to compete with her? You are absolutely beautiful just as you are, you are intelligent, funny, have a great personality, kind to small animals and human beings.

You might not be a competitor in the Miss America pageant (but would yuo really want to glue a swimsuit to your butt and put vasoline on your teeth?) You are so much more and real people are attracted to the real you (who is indeed beautiful both outside and inside where it counts the most).

Check out the comments on some of your picture postings and think again that you aren't beautiful and wouldn't turn the head of every guy (and gal) in the room when you entered.

Hold your head high chickie, you are a knockout, and you don't have to act all desperate and needy to have people worship you...

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shesus

Lurkette, I have been in the same situation you were in when I was in 8th grade. I struggled with my insecurities and beat myself up for years over them. While I was reading your description of yourself, I felt like I was reading something I might have posted a couple of years ago. As others have mentioned, you've got to look for the positives in yourself and embrace those. Once you have the self-confidence, you'd be surprised how your 'flaws' disappear or become obsolete.
As for your friend, it sounds like she is very unhappy with herself. People who have to rely on the outside to get attention typically have major problems on the inside. There is nothing wrong with dressing sexy and being outgoing, but if that is all you got...well...that's sad. It seems like the attention she seeks is validation for her. People should not have to rely on others for validation because in the end, you are left with yourself.
From what I know about you through posts and what I have seen of you in pics, you are a beautiful human being and have a lot of people who genuinely care for you. Focus on the positive and everything else will come in time. Also, don't spend your time around people who bring you down or make you feel terrible about yourself. That is unhealthy and can make you feel worse, as it is doing right now. Good luck!

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Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

Bill O'Rights

Nope. She won't

Let's boil the fat off of this bone.
The "Debs", in this world, may attract my immediate glance. But my attention now...that's something else. My attention is always going to go to the "lurkettes".
Look at it this way. Deb is like cake frosting. Nothing but sickningly sweet sugar. You are like the cake. Still sweet, but containing all of the "substance". Which, while my "cake" euphemism may sound somewhat trite...consider that I tend to scrape most of the frosting off of my cake, to get to the yummy goodness under it.
Deb is playing the only card that she has...her hole card. (Oooh, ya like that unintentional double entendre?) Whereas you...well, you've got the deck stacked. You've got it going for ya. But, I've been telling you that for...what...two years now? And over those two years, I've watched you evolve into something pretty spectacular. You were always..."hot" . You've always had the intellect. What you lacked, was the self confidence in yourself. Yeah, you've come a hell of a long way. Don't backslide now.

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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Rodney

I don't know how you get over it, but at least you've identified what it is by the flashback to eighth grade. Where you were told, by the actions of others, that being provocative and flirty was the way to be valued and _you could never be that way, so you were valueless._

That is, of course, a complete lie. But it's also one that our culture reinforces. And when you see her surrounded by men for basically being a desirable and willing sex object, the cultural message hits you like a freight train and tells you "You don't matter. You don't measure up.

But of course you do. You have a loving husband, people who are important to you and who consider _you_ important, responsibilities in life. You have the attention of people who love you for what you are. While your friend somehow needs to attract attention from total strangers based only on what she looks like, not what she is.

Maybe that's why you're mad. You know you have made a fine life, but your friend invokes the old cultural message. Without even meaning to, she's messing with your head, invoking cultural norms that confuse you, make you doubt yourself. And I know that when people mess with _my_ head (intentionally, usually), I get mad.

In about ten years, that's not going to work nearly as well as it does now for her, and she's going to face life without the crutch she's using now. Without any of the resources that you've developed. I would actually pity her.

Poppinjay

Forgive me for posting lyrics, as a whole philosophy shouldn't be formed by bumper stickers or pop songs, but this is what Ani DiFranco has to say on the subject:

god help you if you are an ugly girl
course too pretty is also your doom
cause everyone harbors a secret hatred
for the prettiest girl in the room
and god help you if you are a pheonix
and you dare to rise up from the ash
a thousand eyes will smolder with jealousy
while you are just flying back

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I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

World's King

PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!!!!

PAY ATTENTION TO ME!!!!!!

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

Sage

Man, my old roommate from boarding school was *exactaly* like that... still is. I love her to death as a person but honest to god, she can be so trite and flightly it bugs the shit out of me.

So, I just distanced myself from her and am hoping one day she'll grow up. I understand the whole reason she acts like this is because of her childhood and problems she had growing up- perhaps Deb is the same way. Any woman who is married and who still acts 18 when it comes to guys is well... acting 18 when it comes to guys.

Look, Lurkette, you might _not_ have D breasts and "perfect" skin and dress "provocatively," but I gaurentee you won't ever hate yourself in the morning for who you are, what you do, and how you act. Deb either does, or will resent herself for acting the way she does- it will eat at her that she can't seem to form a meaningful relationship with anyone as they only care about her looks. You, on the other hand, can and DO form meaningful relationships with people of both genders, and you have a great husband who likes it when you get it on with women.

Take a deep breath and realize that feeling like you are in 8th grade again just doesn't matter - because you're no longer in 8th grade. Adults realize that there are things to life that matter more than looks and popularity- because looks and popularity are very fickle things, but a person with substance is a person to know!

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Sultana

This is the crux of the matter. We (and I am soooo including myself in this) have to remember that it's not a competition. Stop comparing yourself to others, and you'll likely be a lot happier. There will always be someone younger, with a better body, more talented, more this, more that, or any combination...whatever. Are we gonna waste your life being unhappy because of it? I hope not!

We have to develop self confidence in *Ourselves*. What makes us "Us".

I just got home from a short cruise yesterday, and I was constantly confronted with chicklettes of all ages (but many younger than me) trotting about with their Fabulous Bodies (tm) in various stages of glittery, trendy undress. I on the other hand, was attending several hours of dance workshops each day (had a belly dance cruise party, the only reason I'd be on a cruise) and so was dressed in yoga gear, sweaty, hair unglamorously in a pony tail or bun. And got comparatively little attention. Yeah, didn't feel real fun, lol. But I reminded myself (over and over, LOL) about how if I had the time and inclination, I could out-dress or un-dress, as the case may be, any of them, and I'm certain I am a better dancer than any of them, ha! ;P
I don't know if they were shallow or superficial, that can be particularly irritating. But still.

There are So Many Women in the world who are not conventionally beautiful, and yet command the attention of anyone in any room they enter. It's confidence. Don't focus on what you perceive to be your flaws--that's what others will see. Focus on what makes you spectacular, beautiful, in short, on the positive, and *THAT'S* what others will see, too.

On a side note, I garauntee (sp?) that all those other women, and your Deb, too, have a litany of things they hate about their body too.

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"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

denim

Look around you, Lurkette. All these people respect and like you. At least one loves you. If it's others' opinions you care about, you should be on cloud 9. So, why be down?

la petite moi

Think of it this way: You don't have TIME to think about trite shit like this! When I had extremely low self-esteem, I used to hide my body and diss myself constantly. I used to stare at other women, not ogling them, but admiring how much BETTER they were than me. That mind set is STUPID. "Better" or "prettier" are all relative terms- you HAVE to keep telling yourself that.

You may say you have fat thighs, but I'm sure there are MANY who disagree. We women distort the view of our (insert body part here) because we are more insecure. But you know what? Ratbastid is still going to love you. Your friends are still going to love you. And you won't be known as the skanky girl going after anything on two legs. You'll be known as a woman with class.

Oh, and another thing- you should try wearing a skirt every so often. I'm not saying everyday, but try when you go out. I feel like I have fat thighs and a huge butt, but nwlinkvxd always gets a huge boner whenever he sees me in a skirt. Hahaha. You may think you look bad, but trust me, there will always be a person that is looking past Deb and to you. Plus, after awhile, your self-esteem will get better.

So, in the end, all this "exterior beauty" crap DOES NOT matter.

pig

lurkette,

when you say it is specific to this particular woman, i would have to be curious at to the nature of y'all's relationship. how long have you known each other, have you been competitive in some other area, etc. It sounds like y'all have known each other for a long time - do you expect more self-awareness from her than she seems to exhibit? what is your interaction like when y'all are alone?

i've become annoyed with friends before when they "turned" superficial in public, but I think the main reason is that I felt like it somwhat invalidated our friendship. I mean, are they the intelligent person I interact with, or are they the vapid insecure igit they display?

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

Martian

lurkette - I have two things to say here. First off is that because I'm (relatively) new to these parts and don't really know you that well, I don't have the advantage of seeing any development you've made. But I have a bit of a different perspective. I get a 'snapshot' of the person you are now. And what I see is a woman who is beautiful and confident in her beauty and sexuality, with a good sense of humour and a great mind to go with the great body.

From that, let's go this way. You say when Deb's around she outshines you. What if it's the other way around? You're quiet and charming as well as beautiful, maybe all the men fawning over Deb are too intimidated to do the same to you? She's more approachable because even though she's got the looks there's nothing to back it up.

Is it true? I don't know, you don't know. Without interviewing all the men after a party you'll never know. But life is perspective and if you choose to see it that way then it is that way. Taken like that, Deb isn't someone who should incite anger, she's someone who deserves pity.

The bottom line is, this bothers you because you let it. Usually people let things get to them because they don't know how to change. I know you're smarter than that, so change.

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I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

ratbastid

This is a bigger bullseye than you can imagine. It's not really mine to talk about, but you're absolutely freaking DEAD ON here.

lurkette

[/b]

pigglet, you are wise (as ratbastid pointed out).

Deb is both my best friend and my girlfriend. I didn't want to get into the girlfriend part of the relationship because that's not really relevant for this situation - I'm not jealous of HER attention, I'm jealous that she is the center of attention and I'm not. We've known each other for 2-3 years, and from the moment we met we have each felt insecure and inadequate compared to the other. I think she's attractive, outgoing, popular and radiant, she thinks I'm organized, brilliant, beautiful and have my shit together. We take turns being in each other's shadows. She hates that I've been dancing for only 2 years and I'm pretty much as good as she is after 6. I hate that she has big boobs and can fill out cleavagey shirts. She used to be the best at word games till she met me; I kick her ass by miles. Etc. etc.

I absolutely do expect more self-awareness from her; she knows she does this, and she just doesn't care. She acts like she can't turn it off, and she knows she can. She just doesn't want to (and frankly, who can blame her; the main problem is that I WANT TO BE THE ATTENTION WHORE but I am 1. embarassed by that desire, and 2. don't think anybody would pay attention to me if I tried, which I know is just self-defeatist bullshit, but when I'm in that moment of jealousy and insecurity, I feel like it's true.



That's kind of it - I feel like I don't exist when she does this. For her and for other people. If it were anybody else, I would probably just roll my eyes. But for her to be doing this when she knows it gets me makes me feel double invisible. Like I can't count on her to take care of my feelings. I know I'm an adult and it's my responsibility to take care of my feelings, but I also feel a little hurt that she does this. When we talked about it yesterday she says that "when I'm myself and self-expressed, I'm just attractive, and I don't feel like I should have to feel bad about that." She has a point, but it's still not easy to hear.

She's not the only person this happens with. I mentioned my friend Sharlet, who was my best friend in high school. It also happened with my sister-in-law, Becky. She married ratbastid's brother, and she's got beautiful, perfect skin and thick strawberry blond hair and big boobs and she has a beautiful voice - she could be a pro. And she came into a family where, for a long time, I was the only daughter-in-law. I was just seethingly jealous to the point where I couldn't be in the same room with her. I eventually got over it and now I just have pangs, but she's not the same kind of show-offy drama queen that Deb is; she's just pretty and talented.

Pretty much anywhere I go, I will find one person to fixate on and to compare myself to and find myself coming up short. It's a bad habit. And yet, I don't know how to stop it, particularly with Deb, when we push each other's buttons.

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

pig

Ah so. So it sounds like you have a deep seeded (seated?) issue with inferiority complex, and it's exacerbated in this particular instance because of your relationship with 'lil Debbie. (sorry, couldn't help myself) In a sense, I think you've answered your own question - you feel this way because of the above. As far as how to stop it / deal with it...I think that my opinion would lie rather close to a post by ye olde bastid himself - you're allowing yourself to get mad because Deb (or some other girl / person) or the people around her aren't behaving the way you want them to / expect them to, instead of accepting the situation for what it is. You can't change the external situation. It may sound trite, but you've got two choices. Accept yourself and the situations for what they are, or change yourself (which will change the nature of the situations.)

So, after typing a bunch of stuff and deleting it - I think you might be doing a version of "the grass is greener" stuff. I think if you truly, deep down wanted to be receiving that kind of attention, you would be. Problem is, you would be sitting there with these guys giving you shoulder rubs thinking "God, what a bunch of bitches. What the fuck is wrong with you little pussies?" I don't think you have the patience to suffer fools lightly. Maybe not, but that's the impression I get. It sounds to me like you just haven't accepted that yet. So I think it comes back to self awareness and acceptance; which I think is funny as all get out. You're one of the more aware people on this board - funny how we always run back into the same stuff, no matter how much we work on it or how far we think we've come. So, as far as how to get over it....crickey. That's a whole different can of worms - but given your intelligence, I think it's a given that you'll continue to grow inwardly and outwardly, period. My guess is that simple awareness of the problem, and the recognition of it required to post this thread will have been enough to get you going. But of course, that's just my opinion.

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

maleficent

focus on the good things about you...

I'm gonna sound like an after school special, but you are the only you that there is... We love you as you are, you should too...

You will never be as smart as... as pretty as... as tall as... as whatever as.. the person across the way... realize also that you are pretty spectacular just as you are and there will be some other person who will be comparing themselves to you.. that they'll never be as smart as lurkette, or as confident as lurkette...

The world would be a better place if people accepted themselves as they are and stopped comparing themselves to what they are not...

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