Jesus Pimp

I pride myself on always being on time for appointments, work, and meeting up with friends etc.. I have been doing this all my life and don't believe I will ever flake out. I'm just too fucking reliable. So my question is what causes people to become flakes? Is it a chemical inbalanace? Schizophrenia? What? How do flakes even function in society, get jobs even? I have observed people who I once knew as punctual & reliable people have become flakes, sometimes gradually or just out of the blue. Can being flakey be considered a disease?

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ngdawg

As a bona fide flake, I think I can answer this:
We are not organized thinkers. We know what to do, how to do it, we just can't get it straight. Sometimes it's because we have to much shit clogging up our brains and it overflows into the common sense area. Sometimes it's subconscience and the little brat inside says, 'I don't wanna and you can't make me'...
We function. We do have abilities. It's just that sometimes were truly have to concentrate and focus on the task at hand in order to see it through.
Of course, there are some who are just plain stupid.....

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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

cyrnel

It's a symptom of other priorities. Something else is taking their attention. They're likely at least as disturbed about it as you, and they probably don't have a handle on it. If they're subordinates or friends it just became your job to help them figure things out.

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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

Pip

Former reliable people might've become flakes because they got tired of always waiting alone for all the flakes to show up. It gets to you after a while, if there is no reward for being on time and no punishment for being late.

I'm usually punctual, but if I'm hanging out with flakes it tends to rub off. If I know they're all going to be late or slack in their duties, why should I be any different?

Jesus Pimp

LOL my disdain for flakes has prevented me from becoming one myself.

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zen_tom

LOL Don't worry Jesus, many flakes have an equal amount of disdain for people who think that arriving on time is the most important thing in the world. They probably find stiffs like yourself a bit square and hard to tolerate!

shesus

I am not sure what makes people flaky. I am punctual to the extreme because time is my HUGE stressor. I will actually leave the house 30 minutes to get some place that is 10 minutes away just in case something happens. Ironically, all of my friends are and have been flakes. It is very annoying because I am the opposite extreme. I have learned always to take a book if I am going to meet a friend somewhere. That way my time isn't wasted.

I have tried to become a little flaky and arrive fashionably late. However, it is not in my personality. Therefore, I can forgive and accept all the flakes in my life because flakiness is their personality.

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CityOfAngels

I guess I'm a punctual flake. I'm always late to work and was always late to school, but when it comes to meeting up with people I actually care about, I'm always on time, and often being flaked on. Maybe it's karma.

ratbastid

People like to dominate other people by making them wait. It's a common thing in business--at say a 2:00 meeting, you'll have people sticking their head into the room at 2:05 to see if everyone else is there yet. If not, they'll go away and try again in a few minutes so they can look like the important one everyone else was waiting on.

I don't buy the "whups I messed up" excuse for flakery. It's nastier than that, especially when it's a pattern with the person. It's a communication about how important others are to them.

Jesus Pimp

How do flakes who are not in positions of power maintain their jobs with their behavior?

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StanT

I'm always punctual and usually a bit early. I don't tolerate flakes well in my personal or professional life. I start meetings on time, if you are late and miss something, tough. If I'm attending a meeting that doesn't start on time, I'll ask what time the meeting was supposed to start. After 5 minutes, I'll leave.

I leave a bit more leeway when meeting up to go somewhere. Even so, after 20-30 minutes, I'll go without you. I'm busy, too. My time is also important.

amonkie

Some people just don't care about when they show up - it's not neccessarily a good thing or a bad thing, it's just a personal lifestyle choice. If I know someone is flaky, I will adjust my wording and expectations when communicating with them so that we leave or meet up when *I* want to meet up. It's a bit of work sometimes, but trying to change people who don't want to change is futile.

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cyrnel

Rat, would you call that flakiness or sonofabitchness? I'd put prima donnas in sonofabitch territory.

As engineers we had little tolerance for bs and resoundingly trounced or ignored those who practiced sob'isms. If they had position, they knew it and late wasn't a big deal - likewise they knew we'd get work done without them. However, if they were a simple sob, they quickly lost favor and position. Makes things pretty clear when they ask for status on things already covered and they're offered copies of someone's notes after the meeting.

Not to say groups of uniformly sucking people don't exist, but in my experience they're the exception and self-correcting in the big picture. If not it sends a strong message about the management chain.

__________________
There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

Grasshopper Green

I was *always* punctual before I had my son. After that, something happened and I've had difficulty getting to places on time since then. I don't know if it was just chronic fatigue, or extra stress, or just the fact that I was worried about other things other than being on time all the time....

I'm usually late to work. Not by much, but 5 to ten minutes...however, I'm lucky and have a job that it's not that big of a deal, I just stay a little late. That and my boss likes me because other than my tardiness I'm an excellent employee.

As far as meeting up with friends and family, I'm usually on time, unless it's an early morning affair. Most of my friends/family are flakes, and it sometimes irritates me, but I try to remember that I am guilty of it.

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Formerly Medusa

docbungle

I don't see being late, in and of itself, as flaky. I view a flake as someone who is decietful, misleading and completely self-absorbed - not caring in the least how their actions effect others or even themselves.

As to what causes it...I attribute that to flat - out laziness.

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ngdawg

I'm never deceitful(ok, almost never), and truly try not to be misleading. I just never seem to focus enough and be demanding enough. If something I know is important to others, to the point of them being upset with me if i fail to meet their expectations (be it being on time or giving something to them), I make every effort to not disappoint.
In matters of business, I do my best to exceed expectations and usually do.

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TM875

When other people are concerned (meeting, date, party, etc.), I always try to do my best to be on time or early. However, if it's just me involved, I'm usually incredibly disorganized and late.

I think it has something to do with wanting to make life easier for others and present a good image - while I already know that I'm a lazy SOB For example, my desk at work is a volcanic eruption of papers, boxes, sticky notes, and various other items that I may or may not have a use for. I'm the only one that uses it. However, my files (which many people in the office may need), are meticulously kept up and in order.


Maybe I just care too much about how others think of me...?

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"I've made only one mistake in my life. But I made it over and over and over. That was saying 'yes' when I meant 'no'. Forgive me."

zakool21

I'm a habitually early person. I really hate being late to anything, and give myself more extra time than I usually need. I don't really understand those who are habitually tardy, but I have two of them for best friends. *Shrug,* I just know to double the number of minutes they quote me on the phone until I meet them somewhere.

I get it from my dad. His brother (my uncle) is the same way. I was traveling to Arizona with my uncle last year and we were so early to the Tucson airport that we were able to each get our respective flights home two flights earlier than our originally scheduled flights. He called it "*insert my last name here* family tradition" to be habitually early for anything and everything.

Supple Cow

I think flaking is about lack of honesty and/or respect. If you lack respect for the people you flake on (or if you don't have enough of it), you just don't have enough in you to offset the fact that flaking is more convenient for you. If you lack honesty (with yourself and/or others), you know you're going to have to flake, but it seems better to lie about it and make a commitment anyway. Sometimes these phenomena work in concert. If you lack respect for somebody and you're not honest about it (even to yourself), you can find yourself constantly making commitments to them because you want them (and yourself) to believe that you do respect them; but you'll also find yourself frequently letting those commitments slip your mind.

I've experienced a lot of flaking in my life, both as the victim and perpetrator. When you get flaked on enough times by loved ones, it gets to be incredibly hurtful. Luckily, I've realized that I have control over whether I flake or not... so I generally keep that part under control these days.

__________________
"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
(Michael Jordan)

little_tippler

i take it flakes are people who aren't punctual...lol

just one little tip....if you hate flakes, never, ever move to Portugal.

edit: I'm not a flake, quite the opposite, in case you're interested. But I'm a rarity in these parts.

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Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

Gilda

Many of the teachers I've worked with are notoroiusly tardy coming to meetings, and off-site development conferences never start at the scheduled time. It's an isidious process. If there's a five minute grade period, then the real starting time becomes five minutes after the scheduled time, and people start showing up a couple of minutes after that, and the starting time is adjusted to accommodate. Soon, people get the idea that the meeting never starts until 5 minutes after, so they don't even bother trying to show up until then, and so on. It's really, really annoying, as some of these same people are sticklers for being on time to their classes.

My current principal is wonderful, though. The weekly meeting is schduled for after school Friday at 3:15, and she starts the meeting at precisely 3:15 according to the school clock system (all the clocks are sychronized to the second, I have no idea how). Early in the school year, we occasionally would have meetings that lasted maybe 5 minutes and had stragglers showing up for the meeting after it ended.

Students in my classes learn very quickly not to be late. It's not just tardies, which I give out very consistently. We sometimes have a two minute quiz; a paper left on their desks before classes begin, timed beginning with the tardy bell and over precisely two minutes later. When it's a lecture day, the lecture begins the moment the tardy bell finishes ringing. I tend not to get any late students after about the first two to three weeks of school.

My comics discussion group is always on time. It starts at 4:30 Wednesday afternoon, and the last to arrive is usually some 5 minutes early. Partly that's because it's my group and I run it like one of my classes, starting at 4:30 even if someone's running late.

The point is that, yes, the person who is habitually late is most responsible on the individual level, but in a professional/formal setting, whoever is running things has to hold people accountable for being on time or they will be the ones determining when things start. By not expecting and enforcing a reasonable standard, the leader is abdicating some of his power and responsibility.

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Siege

Not sure about your school, but the clocks in my old high school "checked" each other every hour or so. If they were off by a certain amount of time, you'd see the clock either freeze or speed up.

As for flakiness, I try my best to always be on time. I've never once been late to work, and rarely ever was I late to school (all times with good reasons ie: the subway was delayed etc.). I have never been late when it comes to meeting people. I think the reason for this is that I HATE waiting for people. Maybe because whenever I am waiting for someone, i'm just sitting around doing nothing.

Unfortunately, some of my friends are pretty flaky, ranging from "i'll be there in 10 minutes which actually means half an hour" to "oops, I didn't even show up." Generally, I will wait for people when we're getting together as a group, within reason. If however, you are making me wait and you are expecting me to give you a lift or something, forget it. You get there within 5 minutes of the expected time, or you take the bus.

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This part just makes my posts easier to find

Johnny Pyro

The only time I'm a flake, is when I have to be somewhere I don't want to be. If I'm interested in where I have to be, I'll be there early or right on time. Its all in my mood I guess.

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Supple Cow

Exactly. It's not about how responsible you are; it's about how much respect you have for the activity/person you've committed time to.

__________________
"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
(Michael Jordan)

muttonglutton

Haha, what a great thread. I just got mad at one of my friends for being a flake. Over and over he says he'll be somewhere or do somthing, and not show up. Or you'll be in the middle of making plans and he dissapears for the night. I got really mad and he tried to tell me that it shouldn't really matter, I didn't have to wait for him. He didn't seem to understand that when we made plans, that's what expected to happen.

Maybe it's just one of those 'world-revolves-around-me" sort of things. But in all other areas he's a really caring selfless guy.

Personally, I've gone to parties I've said I'd be at even if I really didn't want to go. I've also missed parties I did really want to be at because I said I'd be somewhere else. To me it's really important that you keep your word, no matter what it's about.

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Cellar Door.

Suave

Depends on one's priorities I suppose. A person who is not "flaky" would consider it a high priority to be on time, at every appointment, et cetera. I don't think it's a coincidence that a large portion of, for example, geniuses, tend to be flaky. They have other priorities (such as their area of expertise) to which they devote more of their time.

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"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

zen_tom

I'm sorry, I think this term 'flake' and 'flaky' must mean something different where I come from. It looks as though most of you guys seem to use it to mean someone who is unreliable or says they'll be somewhere and then don't show etc..

Where I'm from, you'd describe someone like Phoebe from friends, or the witch-girl (the one Bill O'Rights likes) from Buffy as flakes - i.e. people who think slightly differently from the 'norm' - sometimes they're called 'cooky' or 'weird' or just plain nuts.

So when I read some of the comments here, they seemed to be saying something about these kinds of people (some of whom are occasionally late, or are easily distracted) that seemed like an over-generalisation. I love these kinds of people - I love people with spontaneity and the ability to deviate from the plan - So sorry if I sounded harsh earlier on - it's just that it sounded like some of you seemed as though you were insulting people based on one of my favourite characteristics.

But, personally, when dealing with people who are habitually late, or fail to show (what I assume many of you mean by this word - 'flake') - I just stop asking them to come, or I do ask (perhaps to join a group) but will not allow their lateness to affect everyone else (i.e. if we're planning on heading somewhere, then we'll head there whether they turn up or not - no waiting)

Blonddie

I think people who are late are basically inconsiderate and selfish. They obviously feel that they are more important then anything, and others should wait for them. It's terribly rude and one of my biggest pet peeves!!

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astrahl

I think that word is "flighty."

I think many people here have described the condition accurately...an unconscience disregard for another person's feelings/time.

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Maybe Maybe...
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Suave

That's quite a judgemental attitude to take.

__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

BigBen

We'll kick that habit out of you on day one of Basic Training.

The motto is "5 prior to 5 prior" meaning 10 minutes early for everything.

If we are 3 minutes early for a timing, our boss starts screaming at us for being 2 minutes late. DO NOT TRY TO EXPLAIN THAT THE ORIGINAL TIMING HAS BEEN MET.

And yes, the most important person (rank) always shows up last. Look around. If there are people pf a higher rank in the room and waiting for the meeting to start, you are immediately in shit.

This also has a reverse trickle-down effect: As a young private, you start to ask why we stand around and wait so much... Often, we show up someplace only to wait for half an hour (or more) for our task.

You get used to the reverse-flakiness eventually. As a leader, you realize just how important this time buffer becomes. The onus is suddenly on you to ensure that all of your personnel are present, accounted for and properly kitted out at the required time. Then you build in your buffer to ensure that happens so that you don't wear your troops mistake.

0945 (timing at 1000hrs): "Okay, we got everybody?"
"Uh, Smith went to get his gas mask. He left it in his room. He'll be back in 3 minutes..."
"Well, that's okay, we have time to spare."

0950: "Okay, Everyone double check that you have all of your kit. Welcome back Smith, you get the 0300 duty tonight."
0955: "Where the fuck is Jones and Lavoie?"
"They had to take a piss before we start."
And so on and so forth.

I remember one day it was about -25c outside. Morning PT starts at 0600. This morning was different, because the CO of the base decided to join us for PT. He passed it down in his orders the previous morning.

Major says to Captain: CO is on PT tomorrow morning. I want everyone formed up at 0555hrs.
Captain says to Lieutenant: PT form up at 0545 tomorrow.
Lieutenant says to Warrant: Form up at 0530 for PT. Colonel is joining us.
Warrant to Sergeant: 0530 for PT. Get your people formed up NLT 0500.

And all of a sudden, we are standing out in the freezing cold at 0430. About 20 minutes go by and we ask, "WTF? It's cold out here man..."

By 0600 people were absolutely suffering. The CO comes by and says "Good morning! Welcome! I'm so glad to be out here with you guys!" He had a cup of Tim Horton's coffee that someone got him at 0559, and steam was rising from his hand as he spoke.

"I wonder what it's like to be a Colonel..." my buddy asks. I could not reply, since I was shaking with hypothermia.

The best part of the whole experience was that we were all grabbing our cocks to warm them up. The CO drives up in a staff car to see 200 guys with their hands down their pants and shaking. He though we were a Regiment of perverts. He never went for a run with us again.

If someone flakes on me, I absolutely lose it. I have been known to yell at my civvie friends. They learn: Do Not Be Late When Ben Is Going To Be There.

And then everyone shows up on time. It is a matter of respect. If you command it, it shows up. If you let it slide, people will abuse it. Thin edge of the wedge, my friends.

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Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

bparker805

I would have to say it might be partly a lack of accountability. How many times has someone flaked on you and you just let it slide? Now if you confront a flaker and let them know how much it bothers you, they are put on notice. If they flake again, tell them that unless they make an effort to not flake, they will noit be included in future plans. I know that sounds harsh, but it is upfront, honest and to the point.

Suave

Well if it doesn't bother me, then there's no point in confronting them. :P

__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

777

The higher ups pretend not to notice. So if we're allowed to cotinue, we do so.

I had this one gig that I HATED!!! Have you walked in to the mall and saw the neatly folded stack of shirts, pants, etc? I got stuck folding those for a time. Had to get to the mall at 7am, to have everything ready before the store opens in the morning. So there I am, folding clothes in the dark, by myself. My job sucked on so many levels. After a while, I started showing up late. First 5min. Then 10. All the way up to a half hour late, almost every morning. And here's the strangest part, no one, ever, said anything. Never written up, never received a warning, nothing. I'd clock in, there are records of my tradies. Someone had to see that. Anyway, I transfered to an associate as soon as I could.

Glad I'm not doing that anymore.

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"I don't know that I ever wanted greatness, on its own. It seems rather like wanting to be an engineer, rather than wanting to design something - or wanting to be a writer, rather than wanting to write. It should be a by-product, not a thing in itself. Otherwise, it's just an ego trip."

Roger Zelazny

Gilda

Oh no you didn't. Tell me you didn't just call the Goddess Willow Rosenberg a flake. [sticks fingers in ears and starts humming]. All done? Good.

Willow is a nerd. Dharma and her parents on Dharma and Greg and Phoebe are flakes.

People can't even tell the difference between a nerd and flake. What is the world coming to?

__________________
I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

Supple Cow

This is a convincing argument for believing either that you often flake on commitments and do so because you think most everything you do is more important than other people's time, or that you are just especially good at making up excuses to avoid being hurt or insulted by the people who flake on you.

Aren't geniuses - real ones (not just any brilliant well-educated person) - exceptionally good at one or a few things at the cost of many other things? The fact that most people will value a genius highly for excelling at what they do does not mean that their inappropriate or negative behaviors should be considered appropriate and good. I said it once and I'll say it again - flaking is about not having enough respect for the people who will be let down or inconvenienced. Call it "different priorities" if you like.

While I have no interest in actually discovering if the assertion that geniuses tend to be flaky is true, I would wager that geniuses make up a negligible portion of all the flakes in the world.

Or maybe we just have different definitions of "flake". When I say it, I mean someone who says they will do something and then fails to do it. I don't include people who avoid making commitments in the first place. Those people are just flighty... or, I suppose in rare cases, they are geniuses with higher priorities.

__________________
"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
(Michael Jordan)

FngKestrel

Hear here! Flaking on someone is telling them that they aren't a priority to you and that whatever other task they chose to engage in is more important that you.

And if you're going to be late, COMMUNICATE! This is a huge pet peeve with me. I had a teacher put it this way, "If you're late 10 minutes and meeting with a group of people, you're not wasting 10 minutes out the day, you're wasting 10 minutes out of every person's life at that meeting. That's 10 times the number of people." I mean, it's okay if you're going to be late, but just let us know what the deal is.

BigBen

Yeah, I had a boss tell me the same thing.

Now imagine that you are working with 120 people. All need to be in attendance. You are wasting 2 man-hours (is there a politically correct way of saying this? 'Person-hours'?) for every minute you are late. A nice round number of 10 bucks an hour is nice. That 10 minutes of yours? 200 dollars please.

I heard that there was a Fortune 500 executive (Bill Gates? I can't remember) that would immediately write you, and your company, off of the good books if he was kept waiting for one second past the appointed time. You had better show up prepared too.

/Me goes to find that story somewhere...

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3.141592654
Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

wannabenakid247

I would hate to be a flake but i would hate even more to be like my boss who will arrive about two hours for work before everybody else (and the start time) and then get annoyed that other people arent early like him. That is so annoying. Why cant everybody just be on time or five minutes late or early then we would all be ok

Nimetic

I'm sometimes late... ; >

It tends to be because I'm over optimistic in trying to fit more things in. Either that or I've become lost in an email, forum, programming or similar.

For me, being told-off annoys me. It's my job to focus on one thing 100% and to block others out, and I am relatively successful in that.

I also find it hard to build a routine (alarms etc) because I'm at a new company every 1-5mths or so. For example, I have an organizer but can't plug it in to the PC where I'm working now. Unhappy about that. So yeah, usually I'm just getting a routine going re todo lists, schedules, files - then I move on.

I do try to start all formal meetings on time now. What helped me in the past was a boss who didn't say too much if we were late, but made a point of starting on time - either way. Plus I've done community and training work where I had to be organized.