Atkins from WW thread

[Ustwo]

I moved this from the WW thread as it doesn't really belong there.

Originally Posted by Martian

Ustwo - No, no, no, stop! Atkins is very hard on your body. Read here for more info.

The Coles' notes is that the Atkins diet doesn't work as advertised. You lose weight due to improper nutrition and at best will probably end up gaining back. It can also lead to kidney stones, gall bladder disease, raise your cholestoral and possibly cause electrolyte imbalances (the article mentions the case of a 16 year old who died due to electrolyte imbalances that were probably due to using the Atkins diet). This is a classic example of a very unhealthy way of losing weight.

Instead, you should be following a regimen of caloric restriction and maintaining proper nutrition through use of a supplement. Eat a balanced diet and keep an eye on how many calories you're eating per day. I'm not sure if you're guy or gal, but I'll post target numbers for either. Males tend to burn more calories because we naturally have more muscle bulk and less fatty tissues, so our numbers are higher, the range generally bein between 1800 and 2200 caloires per day, whereas the fairer sex should usually be targeting around 1400-1800 per day. Keep in mind too that these are very loose guidelines and each individual has different needs when it comes to calorie intake.

Take my advice or don't, as you see fit. Atkins is a very popular diet and I know some people swear by it; just remember that there's a reason that vegetables, whole grains and legumes have been touted as healthy foods for decades now. I'd be wary of any diet restricting these sorts of foods.

As someone who has taken far to many physiology courses I did all my own research I could on atkins before I started.

Its perfectly healthy and a more natural diet then we currently eat.

Veggies are fine on atkins, and based on my research into the subject (and there is VERY little real nutrition research) the most healthy diet one could have would be fish + veggies.

I wish I still had the paper on the subject I read back when my wife first mentioned atkins in 98. Basicly our bodies are designed for high protien, and many health problems can be directly traced to the high carbohydrate diets of argriculture. As a anthropology buff I knew this prior to my research into the subject I just never put 2 and 2 together.

One can eat a balanced diet without including a whole lot of carbohydrates, from a natural standpoint they are quite rare (for most of human history) and even my teeth are better due to cutting down on them.

A final note is I started to get heartburn off and on from about the time I turned 26 (yippie for aging), while on atkins I have no heartburn, I do when I go off for a number of weeks.

So for me at least atkins is a win, win, win, I feel better, I loose weight, I don't loose muscle, I know I'm eating closer to a 'traditional' diet, I don't get heartburn, and I have less dental plaque.

So while there are a lot of groups 'against' atkins, and its even political groups at times, I haven't seen a shred of credible evidence against it.

Health Risks on Atkins
While many following the Atkins plan will never suffer any serious or major side effects, probably due to inability to adhere to the diet long term, a great many have suffered serious consequences. For one thing, we know that extremely high protein diets, like Atkins, can lead to acidic urine. Acidic urine leaches calcium from the body which significantly increases one's risk for osteoporosis and kidney stones. On the website atkinsdietalert.org, we learn about a man from Florida whose cholesterol shot up from 146 to 230 after two months following the Atkins plan; Rachel Huskey, just 16 years old, who collapsed and died due to electrolyte imbalances probably attributed to the Atkins plan; and a woman from California who experienced gall bladder disease and kidney stones (which is a common occurrence due to calcium loss) after just six months on the Atkins diet.

Thats from the site you posted. The atkins diet is NOT all protein beyond the first two weeks, most peoples colesterol goes down (my fathers did) and the rest is silly. N=1 is a case study, N=5 is still a case study.

They also whine about the studies done being flawed but offer nothing of their own.

The New England Journal of Medicine, and Annals of Internal Medicine. The findings were indeed surprising, in that several heart disease indicators actually improved in the participants following the Atkins diet. They saw a much larger decrease in serum triglyceride levels as compared to the low fat group, and a greater increase in serum HDL (which is "good" or beneficial cholesterol to the heart) than the low-fat group. Both groups saw similar reductions in LDL cholesterol (the "bad" cholesterol for the heart) and total cholesterol levels. In addition, at the end of one year, both groups had achieved similar levels of weight loss.

I'll take the journals word over a e-diet site.

So while I do appreciate the advice, as I know you mean to help, but this old doc is pretty happy with the atkins diet. I'll still eat fruit, I eat a lot of veggies (which again is just fine), I take vitamins, and I work out.

[Martian]

Ustwo - I commend you on having done your homework on the diet, however I still have doubts. That webste is merely a convenient summary I've arrived at from multiple sources; many dieticians I've spoken to (and I've dealt with quite a few because of my Crohn's) recommend a daily intake of about a third again as many carbs as Atkins allows, even in the maintenance phase, about 150 grams per day. The high protein that the diet points people towards (although it can be avoided if one is careful, I suppose) leads to further complications. According to what I've heard from doctors, a diet like this will lead to osteoporosis, an increased risk of heart disease and cancer and all manner of other complications.

Again, it's up to you to make your own choice and you do sound rather well educated on the subject, so you're as qualified as anyone. I'm simply passing on the information I've come across in my own travels, which seems to warn against restricting carbs. I'm not the sort to blindly post something I've read on a single website (although I wouldn't blame you for assuming such, as it seems to be the satus quo), but rather found the website after the fact as a decent summary of the information I've received through other means.

Again, make your own call, I'm not so big-headed as to think I'd have any real chance of influencing you otherwise. I'm glad to see you've done your homework instead of blindly jumping on the bandwagon and will therefore trust that you can make your own informed decision. I'll remain skeptical, however.

[st33lr4t]

check out carb cycling.

[ratbastid]

I did Atkins hardcore for about a year. It did great for a long time, then I had a very long plateau (that was almost certainly a result of me getting sloppy), and I eventually bailed.

Here's what Atkins-bashers don't get: apart from the 2-week induction period, Atkins is a very balanced diet. I ate WAY more fruits and veggies on Atkins than ever before. And the Maintenance phase of Atkins looks an awful lot like a full, well-rounded, well-balanced diet.

It's all the processed crap that Atkins takes away, including, most notably, processed sugars. Nobody thinks those are good for you... so why bash a diet that is largely a "no sweets" diet?

[Ustwo]

Originally Posted by ratbastid

I did Atkins hardcore for about a year. It did great for a long time, then I had a very long plateau (that was almost certainly a result of me getting sloppy), and I eventually bailed.

I find it best to just take a break for a while if you get burned out. I did that at xmass and my week long break became a three month break but it helped recharge me. Plus I only gained about 4lbs over that 3 months of crappy eating, and now I'm back lower then when I went off so win win.

I've also found that women seem to have a much harder time sticking to it for whatever reason. My wife did great one it once but hated it, and couldn't stand it when she tried it again a few years later. Now shes just doing a low cal diet and is doing fine.

[Ilow]

Originally Posted by ratbastid

It's all the processed crap that Atkins takes away, including, most notably, processed sugars. Nobody thinks those are good for you... so why bash a diet that is largely a "no sweets" diet?

Or why promote a diet that is not the least bit special and is just what you should have been doing in the first place.

[Harshaw]

Originally Posted by Ilow

Or why promote a diet that is not the least bit special and is just what you should have been doing in the first place.

Possibly because some people do better with a guide to follow?

----

I've been thinking about doing Atkins for a while now. I've been trying to lose weight as fast as I can so I can get into the Coast Guard. Right now, that is my primary goal. I figure once I make it into the Coast Guard I can transfer to something more healthy. I was thinking about picking up the Atkins book today but I have some questions first.

1) What is the introducary 2 week period like? Do you lose weight in those 2 weeks? What are you eating etc...

2) What is a typical day like on the diet? Meaning, how many times do you eat, what are you eating.

3) Am I going to have to spend a lot of money on books and special materials?

[limey]

I did Atkins and had a little weight loss but my Cholestoral shot up through the roof. It went up so high that it was above the "dangerous" level. I went off the diet immediately and my levels returned to a healthy normal almost as quickly.

[Ustwo]

Originally Posted by Harshaw

Possibly because some people do better with a guide to follow?

----

I've been thinking about doing Atkins for a while now. I've been trying to lose weight as fast as I can so I can get into the Coast Guard. Right now, that is my primary goal. I figure once I make it into the Coast Guard I can transfer to something more healthy. I was thinking about picking up the Atkins book today but I have some questions first.

1) What is the introducary 2 week period like? Do you lose weight in those 2 weeks? What are you eating etc...

2) What is a typical day like on the diet? Meaning, how many times do you eat, what are you eating.

3) Am I going to have to spend a lot of money on books and special materials?

1) Yes you loose weight in those first two weeks. You are eating mostly protein, and I aim for 0 carbs. Some things like tomatos etc do have carbs in them but I don't worry to much about it.

2) You eat when you want to, I still do the usual 3 times a day. One thing about the diet is snacking is hard which I'm sure is part of its success. Most snacks are very high carb.

3) No, in fact you don't really need the book. You WILL spend a ton fo money on food. Protien is VERY expensive.

Also a word of warning do NOT use the sugar alcohol 'no carb' items. They not only give you diarehha but they also raise your blood sugar, just in a different manner then normal sugars and you will NOT loose weight. Do not trust 'atkins' items either, as when he died they are selling his trademark like crazy and its not always valid.

[Ustwo]

Originally Posted by limey

I did Atkins and had a little weight loss but my Cholestoral shot up through the roof. It went up so high that it was above the "dangerous" level. I went off the diet immediately and my levels returned to a healthy normal almost as quickly.

I will be willing to guess you were still getting carbs from some source.

[ratbastid]

Originally Posted by limey

I did Atkins and had a little weight loss but my Cholestoral shot up through the roof. It went up so high that it was above the "dangerous" level. I went off the diet immediately and my levels returned to a healthy normal almost as quickly.

I'm not calling you a liar here, but what you describe is exactly the opposite of virtually every report where people actually do before and after cholesterol tests. The vast majority of people actually have their cholesterol levels improve dramaticall while they're doing Atkins. Mine did.

[ratbastid]

Originally Posted by Ustwo

1) Yes you loose weight in those first two weeks. You are eating mostly protein, and I aim for 0 carbs. Some things like tomatos etc do have carbs in them but I don't worry to much about it.

Okay, woah there. That's not Atkins. The Atkins plan calls for a two week induction period where you eat 20g of carbs a day, not less and not more, and they have to come from specific sources.

Originally Posted by Ustwo

3) No, in fact you don't really need the book. You WILL spend a ton fo money on food. Protien is VERY expensive.

I'm going to disagree with you on this one too. Lots of people just go to an "all meat and cheese and butter" diet and think they're doing Atkins. They're the ones hurting themselves and giving the diet a bad name. The book clearly lays out the structure of the thing and gives you all the information you need. Go buy the book.

[Ustwo]

Originally Posted by ratbastid

Okay, woah there. That's not Atkins. The Atkins plan calls for a two week induction period where you eat 20g of carbs a day, not less and not more, and they have to come from specific sources.


I'm going to disagree with you on this one too. Lots of people just go to an "all meat and cheese and butter" diet and think they're doing Atkins. They're the ones hurting themselves and giving the diet a bad name. The book clearly lays out the structure of the thing and gives you all the information you need. Go buy the book.

My wife had the book, I read it, I modified.

Atkins also said that pork rinds and dip are a good snack My version of healthy would be fish/chicken and veggies.

I shoot for 0 carbs in induction NOT because I think I'll get 0 carbs, but because I know I'll get some from other sources which are hard to count. I eat a LOT of salads and I know I'm getting carbs in them.

Also from what I recall you are not required to eat 20 grams of carbs a day on induction but are allowed no more then 20 grams.

Induction IS basicly all meat and cheese and fat diet from everything I gather.

Ok I did a bit of checking online (no idea where the book went after we moved) and yes you are allowed no MORE than 20 grams in induction, you are not required to eat any.

Edit: Down to 216 this morning, 10 more to go.