cierah

So, the other night I tried to sabatoge a friendship. This guy has been really nothing but nice to me. I phoned him before I went home and he just talked to me for hours because he knew I was upset/worried about going home. He just listens. I can't figure out his game because no one does anything for nothing - and I can't figure out what he wants in return. So the other day I told him that I couldn't figure out his game and asked him his motivation for being nice. He said he had no alternative motivation and that he was just being nice for the sake of being nice. I didn't believe him and told him so. He then got sorta mad at me. The point is - I expect him to be vindictive with the knowledge he has about my personal life but at the same time hope that he is telling the truth in saying that he is just being nice. I wanted him to get mad at me or merely start ignoring me.

He phoned the next night and said that he forgave me and had decided to continue to be nice. That is the only option that I don't understand. I expected him to be mad or ignore me. I really can't figure out his game. He told me yesterday that I don't like being touched - either figuratively or literally. I told him about something that happened to me and I cried on the phone. I guess I just got scared that he was gonna hurt me so I hurt him first. It's a defense mechanism.

Anyways, the point. I obviously purposively tried to sabatoge that relationship and was sorta hoping to hear other ppl's stories so I don't feel like such a tool! lol. At any rate I feel better now....

__________________
"You can close your eyes to reality but not to memories" -Stainslaw J. Lec

maleficent

/me raises hand...

I don't necessarily do it intentionally, but in hindsight I realize that I do it quite often. I guess my head tells me that in the long run that this person won't stick around , and will not be there when i need them, so I might as well make them go away on before I get too attached and hurt.
In my life, there has only been one person who stuck around -0 there's a lot of history there.

__________________

ratbastid

Here!

My tactic is, I want so much from people that I push them away. That way when they leave I'm justified in my complaint that they never gave me enough.

abaya

^ ditto, Mal and Rat.

Just last night, after a difficult talk with ktspktsp, I felt like shit for frustrating him... and he said "I'm nowhere near frustrated enough to give up on us." My response? "Sometimes I think you should be." (Luckily, he still hasn't taken me up on that offer, which I have repeated at least five times since we've been together.)

I am so damn cynical about relationships... I've seen too many go to shit, even when people involved had immense amounts of faith in the relationship. So I want to give up sometimes, before I get hurt like that, since it seems almost inevitable in my book. Self-fulfilling prophecies, anyone? (Good thing ktspktsp isn't a prophet.)

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

stevie667

I sabotage relationships and friendships left right and center.
Usually it's because i feel that i won't be able to give everything i am into it, and that i think the other person will be angry because of it so i push them away before i feel i do something wrong.
It's kind of a twisted self-punishment, i rarely let people get close to me even though i really want them to.
When people do stick with me (which is rare) i will always throw everything i am into making sure that everything works, which can also backfire when people get freaked out.

I'm learning where the middle is though, it's not easy, i'm an all or nothing guy.

__________________
Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

Cynthetiq

I don't think that I sabotage them on purpose.

Sometimes I just drift away because of geography and growth.

maybe my own desire to be upfront and frank about my feelings, may push someone away. I don't know. I just try to be honest.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

*Nikki*

I used to do this all the time when my husband and I first started dating. I couldn't believe that he was actually as nice of guy as he is. I would put doubts in his head all the time and say things when we fought like "why don't you just break up with me". I guess I was trying to save myself from getting hurt in some sick way. When people are so nice and you are used to dealing with people who treat you like crap it really is hard to believe.

StanT

I don't necessarily sabatoge relationships, I avoid them in the first place. While I'm generally willing to help people out, I'm very reluctant to accept anything from anyone.

Just an anti-social SoB, I guess.

zen_tom

No, I don't. Being nice is its own reward, and in some lights can be seen as a defence mechanism in itself. It is much harder to be hurt when you decide you are going to respond to everything with kindness. It is easier to console yourself when things dont go right because you know you did everything you could, and if it didn't work out, it was because the other person has too many issues. Being nice shows a strength of character, but is often mistaken for weakness, or over-interest. It is neither of those things. You really should try it. It's much better than being unpleasant and lashing out at people. You might find that by being nice, you are better able to deal with your own problems, and feel less inclined to lash out at people.

maleficent

I am generally not a lasher... by sabatoging relationships, I go into hermit mode... and avoid people til I am forgotten. I am generally polite to other people... and at one point in my life I was very nice... I'm less so now, but rarely not polite (though some could argue that avoiding people isnt polite)

Relationships require work and care and feeding and all that -- I tend to not do that -- well for too many reasons to go into... My relationships get sabatoged due to apathy with myself.

__________________

StanT

I'm generally nice, I try to be polite to people. I just don't expect or accept people being nice to me. It generally surprises me and and causes me to question their motives. In my little world, I don't need a reason to be nice to someone; but anyone that is nice to me has some ulterior motive.

cierah

The idea that being nice is a defense mechanism in itself is interesting. That's basically what I told this guy as well - I figured he must get some kinda thrill from knowing that I am more fucked up than he is. I termed it as 'collecting fucked up ppl'. Knowing that others are messed up prolly makes him feel better about his fucked up ness. At least that is the conclusion I came to.

__________________
"You can close your eyes to reality but not to memories" -Stainslaw J. Lec

abaya

Interesting reflection, Mal... it sounds like you see relationships the same way you see having a pet... just more maintenance. I understand how apathy can eat away at one's ability to have faith.

Incidentally, I felt that same way towards a lot of my pets... I didn't kill them intentionally (i.e. sabotage), they just died because I stopped caring about maintaining them. I knew they were going to die, but I just stopped caring because hey, it's the fifth hamster and they smell bad and I'm too lazy to change the shavings in the cage...

And I feel that way about most of my friendships, but not my relationships with my parents or my boyfriend. I feel like most friendships have an "expiration date," and even though I never know when it's coming, I know when it's past and things start to smell bad.

Parents & boyfriend, though, seem to have no expiration, and no matter how much I conduct myself like a bull in a china shop, sabotaging unintentionally, these people continue to love me. (Even my mom, and she's the one who "taught" me that behavior.)

I'm flabbergasted when I sit back and think about it.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

zen_tom

I have to say at this point that my actual success with relationships is pretty much near zero. The downside of this being nice business is that you have to become pretty self sufficient - I sometimes wonder if that puts people off - I'd love for someone special to really care about me, but what is there to care for if you're already able to care for yourself?

zen_tom

It really is no thrill to hear someone droning on about how 'fucked up they are' all the time. I doubt that's what his motives are. What are your motives? Try spending a whole day trying to make other people happy. It will take your mind off yourself, and you might start to see things in a new light.

MEAD

Some people have an inate sense to protect others and will always lend a caring ear if they feel someone close to them is in need of it. I know I do this for a few people in my life and its just a gut reaction, I can't control it. Although it does get tiring at times, to hear the same problem over and over and have it not be solved, I really can't keep myself from wanting to help. Don't question everything in your life, by making it dramatic now you are ensuring that it will end dramaticly, it's a sign of a lacking confidence in onesself if you are afraid to give all you have to someone if you feel like you should, If they screw it up then its their fault not yours, you should feel better about yourself that you can still act naturally in a realtionship, you will be making yourself quite a catch to the person who can be just as natural and comfortable.

__________________
Here are some phrases I'd like to be able to say, in all honesty, before I die.
"That's it, send out the ninjas!"
"So then I had to kill my way to the second floor."

maleficent

I really sound like an awful person...

However, I can be the the bestest supporter in the world, when times are tough, I am the person that most people would want in thier court when times are tough, it's the day to day maintenance stuff I have trouble with because for all my princess like behavior, I am pretty low maintenance.. i don't need a daily phone call or constant contact to know a person is my friend... so I tend to not do that for others... and it puts people off.

I'd love to be better at relationships -- but I honestly wouldn't know where to begin -- I kinda am what I am...

__________________

ratbastid

When I'm in sabotage mode, I don't lash. I sulk. And I'm nice to a fault while I'm doing it--my victim is always very clear they're the bad guy.

Jesus Pimp

I've thought about sabotaging my whipped friend's relationships with their dominating girlfriends but never got around to it.

__________________
Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

abaya

I didn't mean to come across sounding that way... I think it's very honest of you to talk about why you have a hard time with relationships. I think you are one of the absolute gems here on TFP, and you are one of the most sincerely caring, "tough loving" individuals I've known. You earned my respect, and quickly.

I wish I had more friends like you, actually, since all of mine require a high degree of maintenance (I suppose birds of a feather flock together, in my case) and in return, many of them are not very stable and/or trustworthy. My boyfriend is more of a low-maintenance type, but it is so much easier to trust and confide in him. That's where he and I struggle sometimes... I value him for who he is, but I still need more in a relationship sometimes, because he's more than a friend to me.

Sigh. Mal, none of us are great at relationships. That's why we're posting here.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

zen_tom

When I lash, I do it SO FUCKING NICELY, it scares even me. My Mum is the same, she can shout without raising he voice. Very scary when you see it.

But isn't there a difference between sabotage and just losing your temper?

eMOTIONal20

This makes me wonder a lot about my issues with trusting people, because I really have a hard time doing it; however, I don't sabotage my relationships with people because of this fear. I think I approach relationships in a way that keeps my from being hurt until I can fully trust someone. I choose only to offer comfort and advice in times of need for them first, and if they have shown that they can't really do the same for me, I manage to close myself off from them and not become so close to them. I have what I would consider really good friends, but if i have a problem or I'm upset about something in my life, I really don't go to them because they honestly seem incapable of help or even comfort most of the time. My friends are wonderful to be around during the good times, fun to hang out with and go places with, but never in times of need or sadness would I go to them.

My SO on the other hand, is without a doubt my best friend, and I have never been as close to anyone else as I am with him. At first I kept my distance and slowly gave him bits and pieces about my life and my past, and every time he has managed to comfort me in the ways that I needed, and has offered who knows how many solutions to help me heal from whatever has happened to me.

I feel as though I would never sabotage a relationship because of my fear of trusting what someone's motives are. I stand back first and let them present themselves to me first, before I even start putting that trust in them. That way, I don't really get hurt if someone's motives are different than what have been shown to me. If I trust someone and then I am hurt, then I take it as learning a lesson instead.

__________________
"You must be the change you wish to see in the world." - Gandhi

Redlemon

Why do you want to feel better about sabotaging a friendship?

I could have been that guy. I spent a lot of time in college listening to my friend's problems, and helping them through. I didn't have any ulterior motives. I wasn't doing it to gain control over people. I just don't like to see my friends hurt.

__________________
I can't read your signature. Sorry.

todd

I've been in the position of that nice guy before. There was a girl a while back while I was in school who I thought I was becoming pretty good friends with (honestly, I did have a relationship in mind but I don't concentrate on that or even bring it up until way down the road). She always brought up how nice I was to her, and wondered why on earth somebody would be so nice. She couldn't understand, and said even if I did 'like like' her that theres no reason I should be so nice.

Then one day I guess she had had enough, and turned into a major bitch. She would do stuff like give me the finger or yell something rude at me when we passed eachother in the halls. She spread some rumors about me among her friends. We had talked online before that, and she blocked my screen name. On a regular basis she would unblock me and shout something rude at me before blocking me again. I gave up trying to talk to her (obviously).

The strange thing is, about a year after that she came back to me and wanted to be friends again. I'm an extremely forgiving guy and have a hard time holding a grudge against anybody. So me being such a nice guy, forgave her for everythign and resumed where we left off. We still talk every once in a while to this day.

Probably the weirdest "relationship" i've had in my life.

cierah

No. I don't feel better about trying to sabatage that friendship. I feel better now that I've told someone and written it out in a clear, concise manner. We hung out yesterday and everything was pretty much normal so it appears that I didn't fuck it up. Perhaps he really is just a nice guy but I have my doubts.

__________________
"You can close your eyes to reality but not to memories" -Stainslaw J. Lec

tecoyah

Nice people do exist.....and listen/care for no reason other than to be who they are. I find it painful to simply walk away from people I care about when I can help. But, understand this....there is a limit to what these "Nice" people are willing to take before directing the kindness where it will do more good (there is only so much one person can give). This individual may very well simply care enough to be there for you, and if so, cares enough to take the distrust so far.

Personally....Unless I felt love, I would have written you off after the second accusation, and told myself I had tried.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

cierah

My definition of this being a 'relationship'. He is just a friend. I used to have a thing for him and told him so. He now treats me like 'one of the boys' which I totally dig. I could understand if he was being nice to get into my pants but he really isn't. That's a motive I could understand but just being 'nice' - I don't understand.

__________________
"You can close your eyes to reality but not to memories" -Stainslaw J. Lec

thingstodo

I'm sure I have, mostly unintentional. I can be passive at times, which I think may be a root of sabatoge. I have little patience, so I usually just get to the point.

__________________
If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

anti fishstick

I completely relate, Abaya. In my relationship, my boyfriend is completely committed to me and we are very serious.. We want to marry eachother so his time frame for us is forever but my time frame....wanes every now and then because my confidence in relationships in general is lacking more than his. he comes from a very supportive background and I come from....an emotionally abusive, alcoholic stepdad who constantly yells a lot. I look at my parents and see that they're miserable and I can't help but be cynical.

Sometimes, I am guilty of self-doubt, unconfidance and "testing" his committment by making remarks like yours. But I have to remind myself that these are times when I'm feeling emotional anyway and not thinking clearly. But I very much feel that I don't deserve him during those times... and that can be hard on me.

__________________
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~Anais Nin

tecoyah

I understand the relationship Idea....and Love does not entail sex.
Perhaps clarification is in order:

Love is simply a blanket word explaining an attachment beyond the norm, something that draws you to another person/thing, and can create need of one kind or another. If indeed you cannot fathom the concept of someone simply deciding to live life with kindness as the guiding force, I hope as time passes you can. But, I will point out a catch 22. I have found it counterproductive to expend the time and energy required to help someone, on those who continuously question the motive, it becomes insulting at some point.

Good luck on this.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

tiltedbc

I agree with this statement. I've tried hard to help people who pushed me away and I ended up looking like the bad guy.

The original posters comment that "no one does anything for nothing" sounds like something that's been learned from past experiences. Maybe this guy knows about those past experiences and is trying to help you work past them? Trying to help you be able to trust again?

streak_56

I push people away when they get too close to me. Basically it is because I am afraid of myself and I don't want anyone to know that. Lately only one person has known my 'darker' side. I don't think I personally have sabotaged a friendship/relationship. But I think my ex best friend might have done that to me. He basically threatened to kill me so, that was the end of that.

Seeker

I sabotaged friendships and relationships, but it was mainly due to my own lack of self-esteem. I always seemed to think that once they got to know me properly, there would be nothing they would like about me, so to not go through that I would always stay away from people. It's something I still fight today, because logically I know I'm a nice and worthy person. It's the emotional responses and feelings that are stronger sometimes.

So for me, it's not that I don't trust someone elses motives, I don't trust my worth. I can handle being hurt by someone else, but I have a harder time handling my unworthiness issues.

__________________
To those who wander but who are not lost...

~ Knowledge is not something you acquire, it is something you open yourself to.

diddagirl

I tend to sabatoge relationships only with guys. I usually end things before they ever really have a chance to begin. After careful thought and consideration throughout my high school years, I figured it was sort of a defense mechanism. I would push them away and stomp the fire before it even began. That was I wouldnt let myself get close and be vulnerable in case I got hurt.

__________________
"Is it so small a thing to have enjoyed the sun, to have lived long in the spring, to have loved, to have thought, to have done."
-Matthew Arnold

Redlemon

Ah, I'm glad I misread your original statement, then. Be strong, be well.

__________________
I can't read your signature. Sorry.

Stompy

I have a tendency to do that, but... in the opposite way.

I don't push people away, but can be "too there", if that makes sense.

For example, last saturday... a girl I've been seeing/dating/whatever comes up to a party where I had been drinking for hours before that. Long story short, I blacked out, and next thing I know I woke up in my own bed with a fantastic "jesus christ you got drunk last night" story. (I didn't make too much an ass of myself)

Anyway, I felt sooooo bad and embarassed about it, I kept apologizing to her. I think I might've over apologized and been "too there" in the days afterwards because I had this worry, "fuck, I hope she still talks to me after that incident."

Another girl I'm seeing/dating/whatever does a good job at pushing people away at the most inopportune time, but I'm still the nicest person in the world to her and don't fault her for it. She wonders why I'm so nice when she's always "a bitch".

__________________
I love lamp.