You know, I never thought about that, but damn, that's a good point. It was so much fun sneaking around. In college, it was such a power trip to be plastered and going to the school dance, walking right past security, and getting away with it. Now, it was obvious that they knew everyone was blitzed outta their minds, but we still felt powerful and cunning.

However, if that hard-on of a power trip was eliminated by making it legal for college-aged kids to drink, then maybe we wouldn't have so many deaths.
My first year in school, I went from not having drank anything in my life to being able to pound down a fifth of whisky a night and hardly feel it. Not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with that - we were always safe and responsible - but if I was able to go and chill with my friends and openly have a rum & coke in my hand, it would be so much more safe and relaxing. That should be the point in liquor - to relax - not to get fucked up.

In Europe, drinking is an everyday thing, something to derive pleasure from. In America, getting plastered seems to be part of the pleasure. I think hte difference in the legal drinking ages plays a big role in these two customs.

I saw just as many, if not more, drunken teenagers in Europe as I do in the US, the only difference, is that their drunkenness is legal. I spent months over there, and the daily custom for those I worked with , was to go to the pub and drink their lunch - and then nothing got done int he afternoon. Getting plastered is not just limited to the US.

Drinking beer and wine should be for the 16 year olds, drink whiskey and vodka should be the domain of adults and thus 18. Have no idea where the americans got the age of 21 from, seems exessive to me.

I must agree that Europeans also get plastered but generally they get plastered at a younger age and hopefully by the time they're 21 they should be over it. Though many are not it must be said drunken behaviour is not a bad thing as long as you're a good drunk.

A good drunk puts themself to bed... :) THe rest of 'em are just annoying. :D

Now that I'm well over 21, 21 is fine for the drinking age. One exception I would make: if you're in the military, you're legal. Just show a military ID and you're good to go.

BTW-I agree with mal...on everything, so far.

I don't think changing the drinking age will make any difference in the number of people drinking responsibly versus the unruly drunks. Someone who wants to get drunk will find a way to get drunk, be they 16 or 26. Similarly, a responsible drinker will not get drunk, regardless of age or applicable laws.

I'd like to throw my two penneth in here,

Whilst on holiday in San Diego for new years last year. I was actually surprised by the general attitude that I was faced with when i walked into a restaurant with my parents, who both asked for drinks, and i had the audacity to ask for a beer. But shock horror, i was only 19.

I drink sensibly, and in moderation. But it is genuinely insulting how waitresses/waiters would ask me to leave the bar area of a restaurant, or ask me for I.D, whilst i was not even drinking!

Funnily enough i got talking to a nice girl from New York, who had just turned 21. I asked her if she couldnt get alcohol when she was not 21, what did she do instead?

"Drugs"

Could i digress, and ask, what is the penalty for someone from the uk if they are caught intoxicated in the U.S? I ask because i am going to New York next month, and im def. going to be drinking.

Thanks,

I have to second this. It seems a little bit ridiculous that for years it was easier for me to find pot any day of the week, than it was for me to hunt down a 30 pack for any given weekend.

Im 19 now, and one by one all of my friends have turned 21 ahead of me, so drinking is no big deal. We all go to my buddies appt and have a good time, no drinking and driving, and no one ever really gets hurt.

If they lower the drinking age, they should raise the driving age. Last thing we need are drunk drivers. People should learn their limit to alcohol before they drive.

-Robert

Our driving age is 16 and our drinking age is 19... there are no more drunk drivers on our roads than in the US where the drinking age is 21...


Mal... regarding the drunken youths you witnessed in Europe, where was this and what time of year? I was witness to a large number of drunken youth when I was in Prague but it was summer and most of the drunks were tourists... many were North American (I know this because the largest group of them were drunkenly singing the Star Spangled Banner).

Studies have shown that it is easier for US teenagers to get their hands on drugs (and not just soft drugs, either) than it is to get their hands on alcohol. I don't know about you, but I would really rather have it be the other way around. I'm not suggesting we lower the drinking age to 16. 18 or 19 is good.

The main issue here isn't really the drinking age--it's American attitudes about drinking. Because it still has a "naughty" connotation, Americans tend to do it in excess--regardless of what the drinking age is. Binge drinking in college is all too common (however, I do call into question the definition of "binge" drinking). Perhaps if we lowered the drinking age that attitude would change, and college-age folks would have more respect for alcohol and what it has the power to do.

Furthermore, I was raised in a household where alcohol was consumed on a social basis and I've been allowed to drink regularly since I was 15. Coming to college was a bit of a shock as suddenly I was among all of these people who drank to get drunk. I think that's the difference between the European and American attitudes--sure, young Europeans drink to get drunk but it's generally over several hours and among friends down at the pub or what-have-you versus young Americans who drink as much as they can as fast as they can in order to get shitfaced as soon as possible because they're usually not at bar (since they're not 21). I hope that this attitude changes over time, as it's what's damaging Americans--not the drinking itself.

It's not just Americans.. Maybe it's an American influence.. but noticable excessive drinking occurs in every country I have been to.

The problem I've seen with a lower drinking age is kids who are 18, still in high school, booting for 15 and 16 year olds. I imagine in places with a higher drinking age it's the same. But what 16 year old has access to someone whose 21 at lunchbreak?

It's less about age, more about responsibility and maturity. Unfortunately not everyone has those attributes by the time they're 18, 19, 21...

*watches seniors drink at high school*

That's true. I found it hilarious though, when last year I wasn't able to have a Guinness in an Applebee's in Boston, because 19 is below the drinking age. I find the 21y/o-drinking age solution goes along the joke "my arm hurts, so let's cut off the head". It's a bit dense to assume that 21 is a "magic age", at which if you begin drinking, you're carefree and all will be uncomplicated.

I prefer Europe in that matter. At least there, having a couple of beers when <21 does not automatically make you either alcoholic or even "cool".

I mostly agree with dfings.

I don't necessarily think that 21 is too high for the drinking age. It's just that you get all these rights and responsibilities piled on you at 18, yet there are a few things that you still can't do and there doesn't seem to be any real reason why. As dfings pointed out, an 18 year old can go to war and vote. They can also buy cigarettes, get married and be executed if they commit a serious crime. Yet for some reason they can't legally buy or drink beer (or buy/own a pistol, but I'll save that for another discussion), and that makes no sense to me.

What I'm getting at is that I think there needs to be one age at which people are considered to be full-fledged adults, rather than splitting things up the way we do now.

For me 18 or 21 wouldn't have mattered, and in college situations I would think that is mostly true.

Not a lot of driving going on, drinking tended to be where you lived or close to home.

On the other hand the last thing I'd want to see are drunken 18 year olds cruising around down town Chicago.

If anything I think the concept of you being an adult at 18 may be more of an issue. It seems that many people are 'kids' well past 18.

I always understood the drinking age is the way it is because 21 is roughly the agewhen drinking is somehow not overly-detrimental to one's health and the average human body can "take it." Due mostly to body/brain development. But, I could be wrong.

I'd like it to be lowered. But that's for the purely selfish reason of being 20 and pissed that I can't get retarded drunk without having to orchestrate my fraternity brothers buying me alcohol.

Hey, at least I'm honest.

What timing to have this bumped.. :) I think my vote is pretty clear. :thumbsup:

Off to the Zoo!

having the age of attrition set at 21, doesn't help us make socially responsible adults. People (little people included) should be taught to drink responsibly; I think sailor hit it right on the head.

You find that in many European countries people will have a social adult beverage during lunch and perhaps a couple after dinner. Very rarely do you see people binging and getting slobberingly drunk. In American drinking during lunch is taboo, because everyone believe that you will just keep sliding down the slope.

I think it is right on. Yes.... eighteen is a big age for everyone and new things, new experiences but to me, 21 seems to be a better age when MORE people are responsible.

as i sit here, with nothing in my fridge but beer, i cant help but to think 19 is a good age for drinking to be legal. and 18 for driving.
ive been drinking for 6 years now (im 19) and just recently got my drivers licsence.
as a result? i feel im far more responsible as far as drinking is concerned. I prefer taste over getting plowed mostly so i tend to buy much less cheap beer (budweiser and below) and select amounts of micro brews to just sit back after a rough day at work and just enjoy a beer . How is that so wrong?
ill be 21 in a year and a half anyway and then i guess i couldnt give two shits about the drinking laws.
hypocrite i am.

I like it because that way 18 year olds don't get into bars.

I don't mind if 18 year olds drink but i don't want them in bars.

18 year olds get into bars already w/ fake id's just think if it was 18 you could be talking to a hottie who's 14-15... and still go to jail even though you met her in a bar.

I used to think this for a while, mostly because Ive been in the military since 17 and well its a pain to get alcohol sometimes.

But lately I have realized that there are way too many lowlifes in the military as it is. We shouldnt give them another reason to join even if it would boost recruitment and even if it might straighten some of them out. Luckily, I do not have to work with any of them.

Though, I have always thought that its b/s that I can drive a car, fly a plane, vote, die for my country, etc. but I cant LEGALLY drink. Yes there are a lot of people who will look past this as BigBen931 pointed out. Along with this is the right to gamble, but thats another discussion...

I say just lower the drinking age. It may reduce some of the fun associated with sneaking around trying to obtain alcohol and may even reduce the amount of people drinking just to get drunk.

I think 21 years old is ridiculous to be of drinking age, Are you not considered an adult at the age of 18?

I was drinking at 16 & 17 years old, Just one rule..My stepfather would by me & everybody at my house beer..But as soon as we started drinking we weren't allowed to leave the house..That was fair.

For my 18th birthday i went to Montreal (Drinking age is 18) It was awsome, And my girlfriend at the time was 17 and they were even serving her.

This is slightly off-topic, but if I served alcohol at a job, and was flashed a military ID, they're getting alcohol. I don't care what the age says.

It's a horrible statement that the government will send their bodies into the shredder for their own causes, but won't let them drink a beer. Another disgrace, brought to you by the US government.

As a few posters have said above.. it was easier for me to get most street drugs as a teenager than it was to get alcohol. Basically that meant we just had to take the risk of stealing it, instead of buying it. Wich we did all the time. Just grab a case of beer at the convenience store.. walk casually to the counter like your going to try and buy it... then just run out the door as fast as you can, beer in hand. Most of the time they wont even try to chase you.

Anyways.. I guess they made the age 21 to make beer illegal so it wasnt so readily available to high schoolers. GOOD WORK. How many high school seniors dont get drunk on a regular basis? Its a huge minority. The 21 drinking age is pretty much just pointless grand standing at this point. The state flexing its athortarian muscles. A useless law.

Maleficient: Im willing to bet you see many more irresponsible 18 year old drunks abroad because they dont have to hide their drunkeness. They can drink at bars with the rest of adults instead of throwing parties in the woods or at their friends house with parents who are out of town. I dont see one as being really better than the other.

Hmm I still think my point is valid.

Drinking age is good because it keeps the crowd at 21 and over events / bars more mature.

I think that all military personel should be able to buy alchol with a military ID, and that you should be able to order 1 drink in a resturant at 18.

I think a big reason for the drinking age being 21 is that we have tried to separate the age at which we begin to drive, from the age at which we begin to drink. There's a reason why teenagers have the higher insurance rate premiums than any others group. That's not to say that other people will not get DUIs, but the chances that teenagers will drink and drive are higher. Furthermore, here in the US, we are very dependant on being able to drive to get places as opposed to Europe/Asia/South America where public transportation is readily accessible/available, in that sense I feel drunk driving doesn't pose as much of a problem as it does here. I was raised in Colombia, where drinking is normal part of every day life, so there wasn't that pressure that exists here in the US.

Having said that, I believe that the drinking age should be lowered to 14/15, but at the same time raising the driving age to 17/18. Just as long as we don't give out both driving and drinking priviliges at the same time.

Agreeing.

As always, the intentions of the law are good, but whether they actually fulfill those intentions is an entirely different matter. I was a responsible drinker when I was under 21. The law unfortunately assumes that you are a responsible drinker when you are 21 or older, for better or for worse. That is far from the truth a lot of the time. There are irresponsible 14-year-old drinkers and there are irresponsible 40-year-old drinkers. I guess the alternatives to a minimum drinking age are much worse (i.e. prohibition). Other countries seem to do fine with a 16/18 year minimum, however it would be hard to say what the effect on American culture would be if the legal age was changed.

This issues falls under that big umbrella called "extended childhood."

Reminds me: one of my english professors married a guy from Ireland. She said he's been hanging out in bars since he was 11.

I don't understand it.

I don't care about what the law says about drinking. Minors who want to find beer to get drunk will if they really want to.

Personally I don't even like the taste of beer. The wine (very few) I've tried was ok, but I do enjoy the hard stuff quite a bit. I'm 18 and I'll always drink for taste, however, and not for getting drunk. I could really care less what the law says about my legality to drink when I know I can do it responsibily.

At the risk of giving away my open secret of age, I was of age when the drinking age was lowered to 18. It lasted a few years, but then they realized a few things. 18 year olds were still in highschool- my husband would sign himself out of school and go to the stripbar across the street for beers and naked dancers. Many did. Drunk driving deaths among that age group (under 21) were way up. Driving license at 17, drunk at 18? Didn't work.
Hell, some 50 year olds have no business drinking, but at 18? Responsibility never entered the equation. College kids drink now underage...at least the 21 year-old law gives some semblance of rule.




since i am typing this after my 3rd drink, not sure if it makes sense :lol:

I agree with you on this statement Disk_Pusher.

To add to it I would say that until American culture does encourage responsible drinking the law should stay just like it is. Yes, you can vote, drive a car, serve in the military, and die for your country in a war, all at an age below 21. (I fit all those categories at one time) Those that want to drink bad enough are going to find ways to get their alcohol one way or another, and they do. I did too when I was a kid at 16. It was nothing to go to a 7-11 and buy a couple cases of beer back then, as long as I was quite, and whomever was with me didn't act like an idiot. I remember those "beer runs" fondly.

I think 21 is fine for drinking. Here in Canada, it's 19 and I personally think that's too young. (I'm 18 by the way). I see way too many idiots drinking because they think it's cool to drink and get hammered until you puke your guts out and pass out on the toilet seat. I had way too many friends (yes, they are underaged to drink) drinking until they literally go into the hospital and get their stomach pumped. 19 is too early to get into trouble like that, especially since it does affect you in the long run. 21 is good because it's a reasonable age for someone to think of the consequences and other stuff like that. I don't mind waiting until I'm 21 to legally drink. I like my alcohol but I'd rather wait and have peace of mind that my friends don't screw themselves up.

La Petit Moi raises an interesting idea: drink earlier, drive later. I don't think it would fly politically in America, where learning to drive is about as much of a rite of passage for young men as we have. But it does separate two behaviors that, combined irresponsibly, can cause tragedy.

As somebody approaching 50 with no kids, I recently had a chance to hang out with some 16-18-year-olds more or less as co-workers. And while as many as half are mature as all hell, the remainder act, to use a better word, goofy. They look like adults and think better than 12-year-olds, but they don't act more much responsibly. They're still living empirically: rather than think about possible consequences of their actions, they just do what they want and see what happens. Not so good when you mix drinking and driving, or drinking and behavior in general.

So this is what I'd do: allow the behavior, but punish irresponsibility. Drink at 16; but drive drunk, and your license is pulled 'til you're 18 or 19. Drunk and disorderly? Again, pull the license (this is America, it's like taking someone's balls) or serious community service. Like, night duty as an orderly in an emergency room.

Hell, I'd have this for all ages. We have community service for drunk drivers and D&D now, but it's a joke, a lot of the time. Make it serious, and make it something that teaches them something.

I like how the drinking age is in some countries I've been to... $1 or 18 whichever you got...

i can't say that they have more or less problems stemming from drinking as maybe there are other laws that come into play as well that give someone pause like possibly lack of due process.

i'm also a fan of lowering the drinking age--but i want to see the driving age raised. i'd rather people learn to handle their liquor before they learn to drive.

it is a lot easier to drink before being legal than to drive before being legal. why not just change the law to work with that? getting drunk at 14 took little to no effort on my part, driving at 14 was a different story. even at 16 i couldn't afford my own car, so i had to rely on my parents to buy me one or loan me theirs (like most teens). some of my friends had cars (thanks to their parents) but getting a friend to buy me a beer was easier than getting them to loan me their car.

People who are punished by the 21 drinking age:
=> Responsible people who don't want to break the law
=> Responsible people under 21 in general
=> People who don't have friends over 21 who can or will buy them alcohol or a fake ID
=> People who don't even want to drink alcohol but just want to go to clubs for the MUSIC (unheard of)

Everyone else under 21 just goes on drinking as if there were no law, either with alcohol supplied by someone else or a fake ID. Let me add that I also support harsher punishments for drunk driving. Generally I don't believe laws should be used to punish for behavior that COULD lead to harmful activity; they should punish for the harmful activity itself.