Xerxys

He's a sociopath. You guys can try to demonize the word sociopath as much as possible but even if he hasn't killed as many animals as he says he has, he already claims to not feel anything for other human beings besides lust. Maybe he doesn't have the stones to do the things he says he's done ... maybe maybe maybe maybe, but as this is an online forum, I have to take him at face value.

So, if he doesn't have empathy, then he's a sociopath. Simple definition. Varying degrees.

Anonymous Member

Fantasies... Also, why do you assume sociopaths would automatically know they are sociopaths? I assumed everyone was like me up until this point. I have to find out someway.

Ring- See? This is why I don't want to be outed. No one would interact with me.

jewels

I've never seen this listing of sociopaths and psychopaths. Those damned doctors, breaking their hippocratic oaths!

WTF are you talking about? Even if you posted that you were diagnosed in your Anonymous status, we still don't know who you are. And you have no obligation to post a diagnosis at all.

Methinks you care too much or are having way too much fun.

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Anonymous Member

I was referring to real life, and this thread being a parallel. I'm scared what the doctors and friends would do. Is being a sociopath automatically being a threat to others? Therefor they could do whatever they wanted with me.

Its a secret that I'd actually like to share. I have an inquisitive mind. Since I'm currently doing nothing illegal I'd like to explore it.

Any questions?

ring

What are your current friendships like?
Have any of your friends or family members noticed your lack of empathy?
How do they treat you?

Anonymous Member

Friendships are based on what they can do for me. As soon as they become worthless they are no longer in my life. Luckily I'm male, so this isn't a huge change. As guys usually only have friends for specific activities. Once a friend becomes useless I manipulate them into thinking we no longer can pursue that activity for one reason or another. I've gotten extremely good at fake excuses.

So my current friendships are all based on activities that I enjoy.

Since, oh about 14 years old I've gotten good at pretending to be sympathetic. My family hasn't noticed. They thought it was depression until I mastered it.

I actually recently told two of my family members that I think I'm a sociopath and they didn't believe me! So good is my illusion of empathy.

I actually get treated better than most people because I can mirror exactly what they want in a friend. It's easier to see as a sociopath I think. Till I get what I want anyways. This isn't as bad as it sounds, often "friendships" from the outside are fairly "normal." I let them down easy because I don't like to burn bridges, never know when I might need to call on them again, or if they become useful again.

(Yes I have to admit I'm enjoying this thread.)

But none of this is my fault. I was born or raised this way. I don't think there's anything I can do. Right now I'm trying to find other sociopaths on the web and see if doctors have helped them or if there's any going back.

Probably the suckiest part of being a sociopath is I'll never experience love the same way you do. To me its just a word I have no idea of its meaning. To me it means "extremely useful."

Anonymous Member

If he was a sociopath then by definition he also wouldn't care that he's a sociopath because the very concept would be neurologically excluded to him. He displays far more in line with narcissism and antisocial personality issues than he does with actual sociopathy.

Ourcrazymodern?

I'm experiencing the uncomfortable sensation of not caring about you. Damnit!

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

ring

"I actually recently told two of my family members that I think I'm a sociopath and they didn't believe me!"

What was your motivation for telling your family?

Anonymous Member

To see what would happen and how I might manipulate the situation.

I don't think that's true. It's not like sociopaths aren't curious. We aren't devoid of all emotion, just empathy (or is it sympathy?) I'm only 90% sure I'm a sociopath. I enjoy exploring the situation and seeing people's reactions and how I might still manipulate them even if they know. Its like a challenge.

Willravel

Sociopath isn't really a term used anymore, which is part of why I said probably not above. The closest thing now is antisocial personality disorder, but you need to be properly diagnosed by a licensed professional to know for sure. Self-diagnosis in psychology isn't often accurate. Once you're diagnosed, you can be properly treated.

For what it's worth, based on what knowledge I have (I am not a licensed professional), it seems unlikely a sociopath would create a thread like this. While some of what you describe could fit the diagnostic criteria of antisocial personality disorder, it's far from a certain diagnosis. Again, make an appointment with a licensed psychologist.

Makhnov

This does not seem consistent with your post about your abusive boyfriend who you stayed with for five years.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/tilted-life/154033-there-such-thing-damaged-goods.html

Either some wild sarcasm was being used or there is more than one person using the account called Anonymous Member. I don't know. You tell me.

Spartanx9

Anyone can post anonymous. So you can't exactly tell if it's them, but Admins could. However, I feel that's way off topic.

madli

OK - I'll bite. Just this one post and then I'm not playing anymore.

So I am a psychiatrist, and yes, you probably are a psychopath.

I am a mental health professional (Kramus' "reliable source"), but the only way for you to get a reliable diagnosis is through assessment by a forensic psychiatrist specially trained in administering the Hare PCL-R - a clinician-rated psychopathy checklist. Although I find the area fascinating, I am not trained in the PCL-R and I am far from a forensic psychiatrist. You'd have to commit a crime in order to see a forensic psychiatrist, so let's try not to go there, OK?

You don't need the label - antisocial personality disorder, sociopath, psychopath - they are all the same thing, just older and newer terms. You know what traits you have, you're trying to understand them and decide what to do with them. In some ways, that's commendable - in every way, this kind of self-reflection and evaluation is understandable. Sort of cool that you're turning to TFP to act as your mirror and scope out what the common denominator looks like. The internet is amazing - I wonder how many psychopaths have had that opportunity in the past?

You are more than a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Narcissists lack empathy and are self-centred, but they do have a moral compass and are capable of guilt and narcissistic injury. Narcissism is more like a psychological defense, an overcompensation for profound and deep seated low self-worth. Psychopaths are something entirely different - it's not a psychological defense - there is some biological aberrant circuitry going on. Have a look through Barb Oakley's Evil Genes (a fun read actually) to see the evidence for the biological loading.

So here's my take. Most clinicians see the primary defect in psychopathy as a lack of capacity for empathy (fascinating topic - mirror neurons and empathy - there are other conditions associated with hyper-empathy which can lead to pathological altruism - but that's a whole other thread). I actually think the empathy circuits must be intact - theory of mind (the ability to imagine what another feels) and empathy (to feel what others feel) are very tightly linked neurologically - and are very necessary capacities for being a good manipulator. Maybe a psychopath knows what you feel, but doesn't care - but I suspect it's got more to do with a problem in moral judgment (ability to feel guilt). Secondarily, I think the moral defect may be socially acquired.

What if the psychopath is born with a defect in the emotional attachment system (ability to form emotional bonds, another whole separate topic) - and that difference ostracizes them from their loved ones from the get go. Children need to feel attached to their parents to care about behaving well, etc. The psychopathic child must be constantly reprimanded for not caring enough to correct their behaviour, constantly told they are selfish, wrong, bad - but unlike "normal" children, the inherent selfishness which is part of being human and must socialized out of us by our parents, doesn't get socialized out of psychopaths. I wonder if all that punitive conditioning fuels cruelty, distrust and a need for control, and the chronic absence of emotional bonds fuels feelings of emptiness, which can become almost painful. In order to feel something, to test if they can feel anything, the psychopathic child tortures animals to see if some feelings can be invoked (sort of like people with borderline personality disorder, who cut themselves in order to feel something). The pattern continues into adulthood, where peers also reject and malign them (as is illustrated by the perspective of many on this thread), further fueling anti-social desires.

In short, what I'm saying is that it's not really that psychopaths are untreatable - it's that we don't understand their biology and psychology well enough to know how to treat them. The psychotherapeutic approach we've taken so far is wrong, it is based on trying to establish a therapeutic relationship and providing empathy and that only makes for a better psychopath. It is also likely delivered too late - to criminals in prison. The key may be to catch the psychopathic child and provide that child with an informed, supportive and therapeutic relationship.

- or to catch early adult psychopaths, on the cusp of self-discovery like the OP, before he's done anything serious. There you go - my attempt at being supportive and empathic with you. What you do with it is up to you - become a better psychopath or a better person. You have no real control (or blame) for how you feel, you can only control (and be accountable for) your actions.

LazyBoy

You are a politician

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Life is nothing, everything.....and something in between...

Xerxys

I think he should run for office too.

bagatelle

We are suppose to teach empathy to kids. Not sure how much you can learn later in your life.

Thanks for that list, ring. I've bumped into such personality in another forum, the description fits perfectly. My method was to avoid them completely, but since this person was hoarding everyone to become a "friend", it meant, it was practically impossible to get closer with others... I'm also unsure whether it was about narcissism or something else.

Anonymous Member

Funny story I just remembered. I met another sociopath in high school though I didn't particularly realize it at the time (didn't have the concept, thought of him as more of a potential serial killer.)

He described something he did to pets that was a phobia of mine. I ironically, seriously considered murdering him. Consequences only holding me back.

I never did of course, but its a funny story, when one sociopath meets another.

mixedmedia

funny, as in, strange? or funny ha-ha?

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Anonymous Member

Hah, both I guess. Not sure. Ironic might be a better term. Either way I laugh about it now.

bagatelle

If thoughts could kill, the humankind would have seized to exist long time ago.

Xerxys

LOL!!! I had to quote this. It's just so appropriate!

Unrelated: I instantly get angry when someone asks me "Whats wrong" when I'm laughing. Since when is laughing an indication of something that could be wrong? Laughing brings you joy and if you associate humor with the "wrong" category, thats merely an indication of your own sick psyche.

OP, don't ever kill anyone or anything. This is something you will not understand and everyone else will tell you but you won't appreciate it. Human beings are capable of bonds and connections that surpass arousal. If you do kill anyone or anything, said bond will compel whoever is on the other end to hunt you down and bring you to justice.

Anonymous Member

Xerxys- I don't plan to. Consequences are too high. I'd kill myself if I had to go to prison for even a year. Besides, I'm pretty sure I have some principles, based on logic and arrogance.

Anonymous Member

Saw a professional. Turns out not a sociopath. I wished I was one because I was abused as a kid and I get that fear reaction too much and feel too strongly. I've buried my emotions for years (but still feel the physiological effects). So it appeared to me, who isn't a very good viewer, that I might be a sociopath. But I'm not, just another screwed up adult because he had bad parents.

TheCrimsonGhost

Well, it's a nice story and all, but I'm gonna call bullshit on this one. Nice try, but your responses show clearly that you are taking what people are saying and expanding on it, either to get a rise outta people or just because you are bored and need some Lulz, either way, I don't think you are being truthful about anything you have posted.

dlish

To be fair, Anonymous did contact Cynthetiq about this thread, so i dont have reason to believe that Anonymous is being nothing but honest here since he/she disclosed their identity to staff regarding this thread.

do you have an example of this 'bullshit'?

maybe Anon is a compulsive liar? is that a part of a psychpaths repetoire?


Anon, how do you feel about the diagnosis or mis-diagnosis?

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TheCrimsonGhost

As far as I'm concerned, he would lie to the staff member just to be able to play that card and manipulate us all. He is an admitted compulsive liar and manipulator, if that's not reason enough to question everything he says, I don't know what is. I pointed out what made it sound to me like he was lying, refer to my previous post for said examples.

Anonymous Member

dlish- I feel both good and bad. I was wishing I was one because I didn't want to feel anything. But it turns out that's not even part of the definition of a sociopath. Good because I'm relieved, I don't have to worry about doing something beyond the norm later in life. Bad, because well, I have some problems and I can't blame it on something like being a sociopath.

Crimghost- err how am I posting anything to get a rise out of anyone? I'm an old member and this is my first anon post. If I was into that I would have been banned years ago. Seriously, say I was a sociopath, in what way would that be my fault? In what way would exploring that with the wise people of the TFP be "getting a rise" out of people? I really don't get where you're coming from.

Anyway, if you still truly believe I'm trolling then the best thing to do is not post here anymore. A troll without replies is just a post. Err it seemed like I had cool saying there for a second. But you get what I mean?

The_Jazz

Without knowing who this is, I think I'd trust him with to tell us the truth more than you. He's at least responsible enough to read and respond to PM's about his behavior on TFP.

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filtherton

I used to think that I was a sociopath. It worried me for a while. Eventually I think I realized that there's a difference between not letting yourself feel empathy because you don't want to deal with the ramifications and not being able to feel empathy through no choice of your own.

ring

Same here Filtherton. I imagine quite a few people have had the same concerns.
I am curious (nosey?) tho, if Anon shared the same info.with his Doc, as he did here.

It feels like none of my business & too personal question to ask.
But I guess this thread's delving into some very personal stuff already.


Unlearning some of the coping behaviors one learns at an early age growing up in a dysfunctional family can take time. Been there.

I hope you continue to talk to & trust your professional person, Anon. Best wishes to you.
http://www.mudrashram.com/dysfunctionalfamily2.html

Redlemon

I'm not really interested in the specific diagnosis. Do you have any steps to take towards gaining empathy? Are you going to continue to see this professional?

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I can't read your signature. Sorry.

zenda

Hi, Anon.

You posted this thread as 'Anonymous' to avoid being ousted by people who have known you for a long time on this forum. You have succeeded in building and maintaining relationships both on this forum and in offline-life. You judge this to be a demonstration of your skills of deception and manipulation. Fair enough.

Now, you've got your professional feedback, and one outcome is that you are no longer afraid that you might do stuff which would get you into the kind of trouble you'd have imagined you'd do is you 'had' been a sociopath.

That was your stated concern, so by your own account, you are in the clear - no longer 'sociopath' but a guy whose past influenced him to be the way he is now, and whose behaviours are likely to 'fit in' well enough to evade ousting or ostracism etc.

Now that's sorted, is there anything further which is problematical in your experience? Or can we mark this thread "Solved" such that further discussion be more casual academic interest?

With or without professional help, what are your next steps?

Anonymous Member

Well my next steps are to think more with my emotions. I think the rational part of my brain is pretty much permanently like it is (cold, manipulating). Its going to be hard. But I've already started opening up to family members about how I feel for no other reason than to talk about it (no alterier motives).

Another step may be to find a job that fits me. I would think a homicide detective for instance, would be well suited. Though I have no particular interest there.

As far as solved, no not solved for me. Hopefully solved for the TFP. I'd prefer this thread to die. Now that I'm opening up in a way I almost feel guilty for some reason....not sure why, my emotional IQ isn't that high yet. Hopefully it will continue to scale, hopefully not too much damage has been done, and my emotional side can equal my cold rational side.

In the spirit of TFP though I will remain open to questions.

filtherton

I suspect that once you start allowing yourself to feel again you'll find that the more you do it the easier it gets and the better you get at dealing with your emotions. You may also be surprised about the things that end up moving you.

zenda

Hi Anon

So be it, until such time as you might choose to confer again.

And all respect and best wishes for the course you're charting.