As a kid, I can't say that I had any one male role model. Rather there were a number of men that came in an out of my life. In most cases, they were cautionary tales (i.e. what not to do). These were everything from Scout leaders and teachers to my Mom's boyfriends and Uncles. I took what worked for me from each and tempered it with a healthy dose of my Mom (who raised me by herself).

When I was 25 and my wife was about to give birth to our son, I was worried about being a father. I didn't grow up with one and didn't really have anyone to emulate. It bothered me. In the end, I need not have worried. They key, it turns out, is to just be yourself and do the right thing.

In the end, I hope I am good role model for my own son (and daughter).

I wanted to come back to this thread, as I am like BG and had no male "figures" in my adolescent life. My father died when I was 3 and I remember things that he said to me even in that young age. I know if he had lived longer, my life would have changed in a drastic way (I know I wouldn't be working in computers right now, as my step-dad was the person who brought computers into my life).

I know I have a sub-conscious need for a male role model in my life (my step-dad just doesn't fit the bill in my eyes) and often attach myself to older males to fill that need. I've looked up to various older males in my youth and into my 20's. I look to them for advice and those "life lessons" I think I didn't learn when I needed too.

The various males in my life have had different attributes for different periods in my life. They all had flaws (sometimes major) but all filled a role when I needed it. My last male influence was my last Chef who took me under his wing in the kitchen and invited me into his home when I needed it the most. Granted his abuse of recreational drugs brought the friendship to an end, he helped me a lot when I needed him. I think he will be my last male "role model" as I was extremely hurt when he lost control and shut me out of his life.

I'd respond to the OP's question with this answer: Whatever you feel fulfills the "gaps" or "holes" in your environment/personality that you feel are missing. No one is perfect, we are all humans no matter how we carry ourselves. I don't expect my male role models to not have flaws, just strengths that I want for myself.

*****

My mother has all been a role model in my life, for better or worse. "Generation of men raised by women" and all that non-sense. I don't want to go into that as there are to many strong opinions on both sides of the male/female role model issue.

My main problem with the idea that single motherhood is somehow 'ruining' our men is that it doesn't take into account all of the wonderful young (and not so young) men that were raised by single mothers and somehow ignores all the assholes that happened to be raised in two-parent homes. It's not fair to make them a scapegoat. I mean, if you want to be 'men,' then stand up and take responsibility for your own behavior.

I have never thought men were "ruined" being raised by single moms, just raised in a completely different way. Tyler Durden's view on this is like all the viewpoints in the book, at the extreme side of the argument, but does apply. He uses Fight Club to tap into the "male side" that has been surpressed, just as finding a male role model will help boys/men tap into a side they feel is a untouched side of their personality.

Argue about gender all you want, women raise children different from men. I'm sure a shitstorm of links will be thrown at me for that statement "proving" that as incorrect by years of studies done at high-ranking universities. It's my opinion and I'm sticking to it. That said, we were raised differently, for better or worse, by single mothers.

As posted by my previous response, I still to this day have a need for a "male influence" and it is one of those things that will stick with me to this day. I don't say I had it "worse" for being a kid raised by a single mom, but I think I did miss out on a lot of things that I would consider "Dad activities" (especially in the deep south). I wish I could have done those things and now I have to learn how to do things that I put in the "Dad teaches kid at a lake side" category, Norman Rockwell style shit.

"Just stand up and take responsibility" is easier said than done, and it's deceptively simple. How does one take responsibility? What does that even mean? I think this is where a lot of men get lost. This is not to say women don't get lost too, but in the case of men, many of them haven't had the opportunity to observe male role models, whether they were good or bad.

Much of this stems from the absentee father, whether it is a single-mother situation or, as in my case, the father who works all day outside the home and spends countless evenings either sitting in a bar or on a couch watching TV and interacting mainly with sarcasm or teasing, either physically absent or emotionally absent. These are extreme examples, but there are degrees otherwise.

The idea of a "generation raised by women" or "the impact of single motherhood" isn't about blaming, scapegoating, or attributing all responsibility on women; it's about figuring out the real impact overall. It's also about placing the onus on men, whether fathers or not, and how they influence children and young adults.

Sure, our roles in society have become more flexible and less rigidly defined, but the balance is still generally in favour of traditional models: women tend to spend more time working within the family; men tend to spend more time working outside of the family.

This isn't the case across the board, and I think the times have changed enough that we're slowly finding solutions to problems we see, but you have many cases where children of both genders have little if any time with male role models. And I'm sure it's often the case that men are disengaged because they drop into family life after spending so much time outside of it. It's difficult to switch gears that way.

And then you have the common situation of two working parents, which means that the majority of a child's time is spent with influences outside the family, namely, school and after-school activities. And snowy raised a good point about male teachers and how their impact on male students shouldn't be underestimated. Most primary school teachers are female.

So what you get is both girls and boys interacting for a large proportion of their time with female adults. Unless you think that interacting with men and women is exactly the same experience, then you should at least accept the fact that there is an imbalance of influence with regard to role models and their impact on young people over their entire upbringing.

Coming back to responsibility. Do men and women do the exact same things to take responsibility over all stages of life? Are women the best equipped to teach or otherwise provide an example of how boys should learn how to take responsibility over each stage of their lives?

It's not so easy to think of these things. In a perfect world, gender shouldn't matter with these issues. But I tend to think that it does. As I said, I'm exploring these issues. I've enjoyed this thread so far.

To follow ANYONE on tv is very naive. "show business". not to say ALL tv personal are like that but to find anyone there before finding your surroundings is naive.

I was taught values, loyalty, persistence for the right thing (being; never take, steal, lie.) was a big thing.

in this world people with these traits will have a large battle in life where we are surrounded with everything to take this away and to stand your ground morally when you are alone, I have respect for.

as for the comment of, "these things are easier said than done." I agree. that is the great struggle that we have to deal with on a daily basis. If you can endure that, then I feel that this person has a good chance to keep these traits.

I grew up with a simple life and I have 3 sisters and nieces and nephews that still live to these standards because my hero was a father who fought tooth and nail to instill that in us. He succeeded, and now its our time to fight that great fight and past down the tradition of "standing your ground morally everyday when the world questions it day in and day out."

I feel that ANYONES parents are not perfect but to be taught to take from them all the good and weed out the bad and to improve what they taught you but still have the basic concept of being good.

I feel that most people are very loving and caring and smart but they dont care enough to teach that and fight tooth and nail to instill that in children. They go toward TV, or books.

Everyones morals and ethics are different than most, but I feel that we all live our separate lives and interpret them as we wish but to always carry that basic thought of being good and doing what is right.

As far as the man and woman being this or that. I feel that, yes good people can come from single parents but I feel that it will be STRONGER from a married couple. More stability, man/female views. Not just that, but how you balance that. there is alot more than my "post". It is deep. that is how I define roots.

I come from my own experiences in life, that I view this and see that I am very solo in life where i stand for things that "older" people stand for. I feel I live in a different generation where I stand my ground where some people question me though I still stand it and will learn from them but " i feel what is right" that this is what was instilled in me where I "feel" it and not know it.

odd and hard to explain at this time when I am not verbally competent.

I speak only from my own experience, as well. Which includes good men and bad men, good women and bad women. I'm still a little confused as to what it really means to have a distinctly male role model...I would say that most, if not all, the examples posted thus far are not necessarily gender specific, but rather just examples of upright behavior. I'll take your word for it that it really is *something,* even if you can't put it into words but you'll have to forgive me when I say that I suspect we are talking about angst...at least partly.

Was this towards me?

Though I do agree with what I posted above is an everyday learning experience for me.

I have to pick and choose what I believe and what make sense to me. I question myself daily if the way I live is a just way. This is just me trying to be a better person daily.

I feel we should all question everything and pick and choose what we believe from someone. So I will never follow what my family taught me to a T, but will still have the basic concepts of what I was taught.

Angst? hardly. It is just something that is instilled in me from so young that I know where I got it from yet It comes second nature to me and it gets questioned daily.

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/ge...oss_whedon.jpg
Joss Whedon. Done.

“The thing about a hero, is even when it doesn't look like there's a light at the end of the tunnel, he's going to keep digging, he's going to keep trying to do right and make up for what's gone before, just because that's who he is.”

It sucks I entered this thread so late, but here's my input. Who is a healthy male rold model? Joss Whedon.

I thought a lot about this topic, because I'm a women's studies major, I've taken CLASSES on male role models and over-masculinity and blah blah blah. So I started thinking, who is a good role model? I think Joss Whedon. And Vinny, the guy who made Vinny's tampon cases, just becuase he's not a crazy idiot about periods, and also he seems like a sweey guy. But besides that. Joss Whedon. He's awesome.

He was raised by his single mother, and anyone who's ever seen Buffy, or Angel, or Firefly, or Dollhouse, or anything else of his, you know he is a huge fan of female power. An entire series based on a stupid blond teenager being super strong and powerful and having to save the world every other night? Yeah. That's Joss. He's funny, he's sensitive, he's smart, he's not afraid to identify as a feminist.

I just love him, he's so.....Joss. But that's just my 2 cents.

Wow. Huge, ginormous +1!

I'm glad you agree!!

No, I wasn't speaking to you directly. Just to the thread in general. :)

I don't think that making choices and trying to be a good person is indicative of angst. In fact, your words tend to support what I've been saying all along. At some point in our adult lives, we choose who we want to be and we act in ways that support that ideal (barring mental illness). I don't really understand how the lack of having a good male role model (for a man) in one's childhood is anything but angst. By adulthood, people know what is good and upright behavior and they either choose to go that route or they are consumed by narcissism or greed or hate or any other number of negative characteristics and they choose to go another. These are people with good role models in their lives and those without.

I could be missing the mark completely and I accept that. If so, I really would like to know what it is that is missing. How do you who feel like you missed out on early male role models feel you would be different today if you had them? What kind of psychological nuance are we talking about?

If there is no role model, of whatever type, throughout childhood, then that formative phase of life has lacked instruction. Yes, adults know which route they should take, but that doesn't mean it's easy. If that's what you mean, I think just saying 'angst' is putting it lightly. There can be a lot of pent up anxiety, and shoving it all down by choice can be tough. I had to teach myself that my troubles are specific to my persona, and seem so bad because they're pushing my limits. Anybody else could feel as bad or worse, because the extreme feeling of the situation is determined by comparison to previous experiences. So, the severity should be dealt with, not acted on, because you can't know it is truly as bad as it feels.

I never thought of Joss Whedon as a role model. I finally watched most of Firefly in the past few months, but I thought a few episodes were terrible and others had plot ruining lines whose inclusion explained why the show was canceled, or that episode was never aired. I think him being a role model is very dependent on how your perceive his stuff. I thought it was lousy and designed to appeal to certain stereotypical female angles. Discussing it with female friends has made some Firefly less enjoyable for them, and some Star Trek less enjoyable for me. So be careful when you recommend Joss Whedon :)

I wasn't referring to a childhood with no role models. Psychological distress can be influenced by all manner of experiences (or lack thereof). I'm not even sure we are talking about the same thing.

But whatever, it's not a big deal.

I may be covering points that have already been covered, and I'm speaking purely from experience and from a male perspective.

Boys and young men absolutely need positive roles models or male figures in their life as they're going up. We also need positive female figures too, it's very much a balance in my opinion.

I went to an all boys high school in Australia, and looking around these days I think there is somewhat of a crisis in regards to positive male figures in the lives of many boys and young men. Males need to bond with other males, and we so often take our queues from our older peers and male figures, especially when it comes to women. I really don't think it is enough for young males to just have positive female figures to learn respect to women, it really must be reinforced with positive male figures too. The consensus of ones peers has a profound affect on shaping a persons attitudes.

Young blokes need to feel like that they belong to something, and a way to constructively use all that raging testosterone as they become men. An environment in which they can release all the anger, rage, and almost animal need to be aggressive and fight that is constructive and relatively safe. That's why I think sports can play a part in young males lives. However, I'm well aware of the danger of young men using sports heroes as their sole role models.

I guess what I'm getting at here is that it can't just come down to one male role model in a young males life. There are many figures that can have a profound positive, and just as easily negative, affect. The father figure, the older brother figure, the teacher figure, and the male figures that are their peers.

Mixmedia, While it's all very well to say young men shouldn't be walking around questioning what it means to be a man, I'd like to ask why not? I'm not going to blame women, at all, I think at the moment both young males and female are entering and age where we define are roles on the fly, or are really learning that roles don't have to be defined at all. But in an age of instant communication, the social environment for kids growing up now has completely changed and is still changing. I think its critical young men ask themselves what it means to be a man, just as young women should consider what it is to be a woman.

The fact still remains that in this society there are still societal norms. I can say from experience and from the young male friends of mine who are still teenagers, things are incredibly confusing. I think gen Y are being left to figure out a hell of a lot of things out on their own, and aren't really being given much of push in the right direction. With the amount of fuzz, white noise, hypocrisy, and misinformation that the modern media and the internet bombard them with, is it any wonder young men who lack many male figures in their life question where they stand? These are the young men who are most at risk of developing depression or start walking down some bad paths.

Melbourne, where I live, is seeing violent crime, especially violent crime that involves packs of males, getting way out of hand. There has been a disturbing cultural shift where young blokes find it acceptable to gang up on one person in simple bar fights, where before this wasn't so much the case. The question is, why?. If the male figures in the lives of these young blokes made it clear that this kind of behavior is absolutely not on, would we still see this concerning rise in violent assaults on the streets of my once chilled out city?

I've said it a number of times to my friends, but I can't help but feel that Australia reintroducing national service for both young men and women would do a hell of a lot to help some of these problems. And this is coming from a feel good lefty hippy.

This is a very interesting topic, to be sure, and I think it's certainly something that both young men and women should think about and ask themselves. We don't all have to come up with definitive answers, I think that would be silly, but posing the question is better than having our youth running headlong into the dark.

I guess I am just completely out of touch. Or I attribute the kinds of things you observe to wider phenomena. I agree that we still have societal norms and that there are people growing up who understand that they can live outside of them...which I'm not certain is such a bad thing necessarily.

I don't suppose that young men are ganging up on others because they don't know it's wrong. They do it because they don't care if it's wrong. Young women have their own ways of doing this, too. I'm not sure that they do it because there are no role models, though. After all, apparently young women have plenty of good role models...then why are they fucked up, too? And they are...just as much as young men.

Despite how it looks, I am not trying to be contrary. I thank you for taking the time to reply so thoroughly. Like I've said several times before, I'd like to understand how a young man's future is changed by not having a direct male role model (because I'm not sure it's accurate to purport that there are no male role models). I'm not ready to accept that they don't know what is right and wrong behavior. Obviously we have men here on the board who are fine, good people who feel they didn't have them. What does it really mean to feel you don't know how to be male?

Maybe my confusion comes partly from the fact that I don't feel I had any strong role models. As much as I love my parents (aunts, uncles, grandparents, all of them) and think they are good people who love me fiercely, they aren't really the type of people you would call 'role models.' I won't go into details because they are my family and I love them, but I think it's fairly safe to say that I learned as much about how I wanted to be as an adult by observing what I didn't want to be, as much as that which I did. It wasn't until adulthood that I recall meeting people who seemed 'ideal' to me. My stepfather being one of them (who didn't come into my life until after my first child was born). So, like everyone else here, I am just speaking from my own experience. I'm not perfect, but I am happy with how I am as a person and a woman, even though many people might disagree with me.

But admittedly, it is in my nature to question norms and standards, even be suspicious of them to some degree.

Mixmedia, you'd be no more or less out of touch than I am, we're all commenting from our personal experience. But as someone who went to an all boys high school and saw the very different ways in which you males grew up in their different circumstances, I can honestly say, young men having a positive male role model or influence in their life can make such a big difference.

For a lot of people, they figure it out on their own. But for the young and confused who are at risk, the lack of these positive role models can make all the difference. I knew a priest down here who got a lot of at risk kids into boxing. It was a great way of getting young angry males off the streets and direct their anger into something positive.

To answers the OP's original question of what makes a great male role model, I find myself geeking out and thinking of SciFi characters like William Adama (BSG), Malcolm Reynolds (FireFly), or WallE (totally joking, but such an awesome movie).

There's no point denying the differences between men and women, and young men and young women. We're different on profound levels, and I feel need different kinds of mentoring while growing up. However, it's important that we don't focus on those differences and use them as an excuse to divide or discriminate. I've said it often enough here, for all the difference between us all, we still have the same drives and fears as each other.

I guess what all my rambling is getting down to is that growing up and life can be more than a handful for some. I little bit of help and direction from the right kind of people can make all the difference. I can say in all honesty, if it hadn't been for some of the strong role models who took and interest and gave a crap, I probably wouldn't be around today.

Switching gears a bit:

I think the consensus here is that, society has a difficult time even identifying distinctly male qualities. So, what does that say? Have we changed that much?

I'm absolutely not picking a fight here, I just find it fascinating that a women's studies student chooses her best example of a good "male role model" as one who dedicates his career to feminist media productions. Could you further explain why that is a good male role model and in what context? Perhaps you mean for young ladies? Do you have an example of one for young men? (so that your choice there might help me better understand your first choice.)

So, I've been cruising the Art of Manliness blog and just listened to an interesting podcast of an interview with Walker Lamond author of Rules for My Unborn Son. In it they talk about the rejection of the traditional male role models of the forties and fifties and how there was nothing to take their place once those role models were dethroned. The phrase they use is "throwing the baby out with the bathwater". They makes for a good read and listen, the point is that there were problems with those role models (like authoritarianism, sexism, racism...) and while we were right to get rid of them, we also lost many of the valuable things that those role models provided such as leadership, integrity, respect and a willingness to take on responsibility; in short just growing up. Without any good male role models to take their place these qualities have subsided in the new generations of men.

The challenge with identifying male role models is recognizing people who are 'quality' men; folks young boys can emulate. It isn't that there is anything distinctly masculine about responsibility, leadership, etc. but it can be difficult to find a male role model for a boy to have actual contact with on a regular basis who has these qualities.

Movies -- Bruce Willis
Music -- Bruce Springsteen
Politics -- Bill Bradley

All you have to do is look to NJ...

I know who aren't ...

those who cringe at the thought of holding a guy's hands.

And the worst role models are those that put another man down for holding another man's hands.