soma

So the other day one of my really good friends came to me with some girl problems. He developed a little crush on a girl in his literature class and wanted to know how I would try to ask her out on a date. Before giving him any advice, I asked him more about this girl and eventually was able to see her Facebook. She turned out to be really pretty, and IMHO sadly out of my friends league. The interactions they've had in the class didn't seem to amount to any dating potential.

I gave him some advice and left it at that. I didn't have the heart to tell him what I really thought, but now I'm starting to think it may be my responsibility. But at the same time, I would feel like a total ass if I told my friend something like that. I could also be totally wrong which would make things even worse.

How would you all handle this situation?

__________________
Having Girl Problems?

Xerxys

Tell him to go for it.

No if's and what nots can be considered. Not trying would be a fail on yours as well as your friends end.

xepherys

There is no "league"... people like who they like, sometimes to everyone's complete surprise!

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shakran

My lady is way out of my league, yet we're together. Stranger things have happened. Tell him to go for it, and don't worry about whether she's out of his league or not.

Martian

I don't really understand where this whole 'league' thing came from in the first place. We're not talking about baseball here. I'm assuming your friend isn't trying to date A-Rod.

You like girl. You want to do naughty things to girl. You talk to girl. Girl talks to you. You ask girl out on date to determine if she wants to do naughty things to you.

Honestly. It's that simple. Your friend has nothing to lose by making a move, and you'd be doing him no favours by trying to convince him that he's not good enough for this girl.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Willravel

This man married Julia Roberts:

Plan9

Wow, that looks like Carrot Top + "The Machinist." Hah. And since when was Julia Roberts a catch besides the $$$? She's got a mouth like a Venus flytrap.

...

League is emo talk. It's like this stuff that I posted awhile back... titled "Ladder Theory" and "Goodwill Humping," IIRC.

Very "play the game" kinda stuff where we impose some kind of invisible caste system on ourselves and others.

She's got a BMW Z4 but I've got a PhD and she's got bolt-on DDs but I've only got a 5.5", etc. Superficial traits.

Ya can't put human value down on paper. There are some things that show character, but it's elusive. Especially for relationships.

No amount of looks, money, education, friends, experience, or material wealth can make up for someone that is a boring, self-centered vain asshole.

Think of people as Cubscouts: just because one of 'em has all the merit badges doesn't mean you wanna share a cabin with 'em for the summer.

...

WillRavel is outta his league all the time and pulls it off with the ladies. He's got confidence... and he's a friggin' magician with a chainsaw.

...

EDIT:

Friend and I were talking about this and maybe it's like this:

It isn't about those we see at our level or above, but those we see at below our level.

Example: I don't give a second look at single mothers, high school dropouts, or anyone that smokes cigarettes or uses drugs on dating sites.

I consider their life situations / choices beneath me, I feel that I deserve better. Often, I don't even respond to their advances. They might be great people, but I am unwilling to deal with the lifestyle associated with their life situations / choices. Am I an asshole? Maybe... but I'm an a-hole with a solid baseline.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

lostgirl

Yea, the league thing is BS. He should go for it. Who knows it just might work.

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We're about to go through the crucible, but we'll come out the other side.
We always arise from our own ashes. Everything returns later in its changed form. - Children of Dune

Baraka_Guru

Get him a copy of The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists. Let him practice his "negs" on you.

I knew a guy in his mid-thirties who swears it works. He landed himself a hot university-aged girlfriend despite his overbearing mood problems. I took that as some kind of proof.

But I really am the worst person to give advice on this topic.

My own advice on women out of your league? Let them prey on you.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Xerxys

They have to notice you first

Baraka_Guru

There's the rub.

If you try to get their attention, they usually won't bite.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

Baraka's... a big playa? Do you speak from experience, Dr. Feelgood? (j/k)

...

Yeah, turns out I don't buy the "they'll come to you thing." At all. It has never worked for me. That's like waiting for someone to give you a winning lottery ticket. I've gone out on a zillion dates so far this year and my common interview question is always: "Would you have initiated contact based on my looks / profile alone?" And the answer is generally no... they prefer the guy to be more aggressive, to ask the question, to show initial interest. Statement is backed up the limitations of a tiny sample size and only my personal experience, but hey... seems to be common for a lot of guys, right? Hard to get = fun.

I believe women like to be coy because it's sexy. And they're onto something with that.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Willravel

Bringing hope to the masses.

Xerxys

I take it you haven't read this.

Baraka_Guru

I'm sure it's not a very common occurrence. I'd assume it only happens when you aren't expecting it. There are certain women who don't do coy.

I hadn't read it. I haven't had any experience with window shoppers that I know of. However, bear in mind that the women I'm speaking of are a different kind of "shopper"....

"Hey, I love that jacket you're wearing. How much do you want for it?"

"Wut? This thing?"

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

Micheal Jackson's "Beat It" is totally about dating:

"Don't wanna be a boy, you wanna be a man... have to show them that you're really not scared... they'll kick you and they'll beat you and they'll tell you it's fair."

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Baraka_Guru

Crompsie, most of MJ's songs are about dating:

"Bad":
The word is out
You're doin' wrong
Gonna lock you up
Before too long,
Your lyin' eyes
Gonna take you right
So listen up
Don't make a fight,
Your talk is cheap
You're not a man...

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Plan9

I... I just wanted you to sing it for me.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

thespian86

I don't believe in leagues. I'm a chubby, goofy, glasses wearing, theatre geek. I get laid.

Because I'm charming. Charm equates a level playing field. Charm is the "ringer" in this sports metaphor. If you're articulate and quick on your feet it's like having Tom Brady playing touch football with 8 year old's.

Not to sound arrogant. But that's part of my charm.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

xuvio38

~~~~~

snowy

I thought my guy was out of my league when we first met, but apparently he's not because we've been together for over three years now, and plan to be together for many more. It's really silly to get caught up in that sort of stuff, because looks don't make people compatible.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Manic_Skafe

I don't think this league business is entirely useless when most of us have a somewhat comparable idea of what makes an individual attractive by conventional standards. These standards aren't always the bottom line or the sole determining factor in whether or not a connection can occur but the idea that we're all just as willing to chat it up with Frankenface as we are with ScarJo or Tom Cruise is just plain naive.

Snowy's right, it's silly to get caught up in all of this when there's much more to a person than their looks but it happens and we all discriminate to some extent. She very well may be out of Soma's buddy's league - pretending like we don't know what this means won't make it not so.

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

MSD

There are two ways for a girl to be "out of your league." First, she thinks you are. Women who think this way tend to be self-centered, high-maintenance, and the type to think being hot is enough and just lay there in bed while you do all the work.

Second, you think you are. You know why it's not going to happen? You're not trying!

Yes, there is a science to attraction. Yes, you can predict with some success the outcome of a guy asking a girl out. But in the end, our efforts to brush natural selection among humans under the rug has leveled the playing field and left many of the facts beyond basics unpredictable. Human attraction is irrational. Sure, you need to have some hygiene, dress decently, and be interesting to attract someone, but how are you going to know their type without trying to get to know them?

Tell your friend to go for it, and if he gets shot down, what's the big deal? If you can't tolerate the word"no," you shouldn't be in the dating pool.
The only value to PUA stuff is that it essentially tells you to better yourself and fake it until you make it. Canned lines and cheesy routines work on some people, but they're not the ones you want a relationship with. Honestly, I wouldn't want to be with any of the girls I've seen this stuff work on. You can spot the wannabes from across the bar, and watching them is hilarious.

Strange Famous

If you think someone is way out of your league, they'll probably get the same feeling too.

If you just approach them like a normal person they'll robably think of you (or your mate) as one - and they might hit it off or might not. There are many many couples of what an outsider would consider vastly different levels of attractiveness.

I mean - look at me: 5 10 and 300 lbs, big scar on my face, a bad eye, a missing tooth, unshaven and scruffy most the time - if I only dated women who looked similar to me would = a lot of sad times.

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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

The_Jazz

SF, if you had a child with a woman who looked like you, the local villagers would probably chase it from the village with torches and pitchforks by the time it was 12.

And I say that as a guy that remains surprised that he managed to impregnate a human woman.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
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Zeraph

While I don't like the douche bag subculture that has sprouted up around "leagues" I can't argue against it completely. There have been peer reviewed experiments that show, more often than not, we do end up with someone in our "league." So I would have said, "Outta your league bro!" In a comical type of way and, "But go for it anyway! Life is short!" kind of thing.

Flinx

Not going to say there are "no leagues" because there are, but why let that stop your buddy? It just might be that she doesn't like the people in her league an wants hook up with somebody that is different.
I'd say wait till you can speak to her an ask her out, maybe not in class though. Maybe he gets shot down maybe he gets a date, either way he's tried.
Come to think on it, lol, thats how I got my wife about 10 years or so ago.

soma

Thanks for the responses. Nothing happened between my friend and this girl.
I never actually told my friend how I felt, but I think I'll keep it to myself and be more encouraging and positive instead.

__________________
Having Girl Problems?

Shell

...well, when your friend approaches her tell him not to use a bad pick-up line like, "Do you believe in love at first sight or should i walk past again"

...he should try a sincere compliment like, "I just thought you should know you really have a nice smile (or eyes or nose.....but please, not ass )

...sincere flattery really does get you somewhere...it transcends all "league" boundaries

__________________
..."Say what you think. Those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind" ~ Dr. Seuss

Zeraph

LOL @ "nice nose" Why not compliment her thumbs as well?

But ya, stick to eyes or smile. It's a classic compliment for a reason.

paddyjoe

I'm thinking he got the worst of that deal......

Plan9

I like girls with big noses. I've used that line before.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

asaris

Big noses are hot!

__________________
"Die Deutschen meinen, daß die Kraft sich in Härte und Grausamkeit offenbaren müsse, sie unterwerfen sich dann gerne und mit Bewunderung:[...]. Daß es Kraft giebt in der Milde und Stille, das glauben sie nicht leicht."

"The Germans believe that power must reveal itself in hardness and cruelty and then submit themselves gladly and with admiration[...]. They do not believe readily that there is power in meekness and calm."

-- Friedrich Nietzsche

samcol

I agree as I never understood what was so likeable about her. She looks decent and is a mediocre actress at best imo.

Although, not being a typical hollywood druggy/basketcase/slut is commendable.

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It's time for the president to hand over his nobel peace prize.

thespian86

Me too. Or at least noses that stand out. What a weird but incredibly understandable fetish.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

ItWasMe

OMG, HOW did I miss that one? The kids had to come see why I was laughing so hard.

I concur with MSD that someone is only out of your league if they think they are, or if you think they are.

So Soma, how did it work out for your friend?

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"Ok, no more truth-or-dare until somebody returns my underwear" ~ George Lopez

I bake cookies just so I can lick the bowl. ~ ItWasMe

MSD

Poppinjay

My two big crushes through my college years hardly ever dated because they were out of everybody's league. If I knew then what they meant when they complained about being alone on a Saturday night, well then, college would have been much cooler with lower grades.

Unless your friend is a total spazz and this woman is a model, then there's no talk of leagues. I had an engaged woman talking me up right until she got married my senior year. This is the way things go. There's a time and place for everything. Right now, and right here.

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I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

thespian86

I love that idea.

/tangent.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.