Xerxys

So how can I begin to explain how the title of this thread is in fact so full of shit that I get angry whwnever anyone uses the phrase. TFpers, I beleive I have a universal answer to all your ailments. This solution is in fact so good I beleive it will cure cancer, make you slim and reduce crime.

What phrase was it that pai mei used to describe people must be put to work? Ahh yes, "Arbeit macht frei", I dont exactly know what that means, but I assume, as he may have put it, people must be put to work. Yes. That is my solution. Get a Job at MickyDees. I personally believe that all our problems, both societal and domestic are caused because of:

a) Idle minds (workshop of a devil)
b) Lack of resources.
c) Resources in abundance of the wrong kind.

Threads such as this and this have been cropping up and everyone has been opffering advice to either quit the relationship and seek therapy. WTF!!!! These people don't even sound fit to be in a relationship. When you become dependent on somebody financially, .... shouldn't you be considered dead??!?! Granted, I am financialy dependent on the man but honestly, .. TFPers, when someone makes no effort to better themselves, don't they deserve to be homeless?

I'm a momma's boy. My mom essentially taught me that life is gonna be hard if your stupid, harder if you have no job and even worse if your dependent on someone else. Screw trust. Why have to trust someon else when you ask them to change something for the sake of the development of your relationship, they tell you you can either live with it of GTFO. Now you can't leave, your financially dependent on them!!! Talk about being royally fucked!!!

Not having money ready for situations such as these can make you miserable. Perhaps that is what people call mental stress. It doesnt bother me anymore because I no longer live with the motherfucker who kept on telling me he was "mentally stressed".

Seriously, I am scared. Do people get to a point in time at life when they ask themselves, what now?!?! Seriously? The answer is simple. KEEP ON MOVING STUPID!! Get another job. that is the cure to all things in life. Get a second job, if you happen to like it, make enough maoney until you believe yourself ready to pursue fuerther education. You can never go wrong making more money. That $7 an hour is gonna be waaaayyy more productive than spending hundreds of bucks on either cable TV bills or worse, blow!!!

People only get stressed because they want to. They lack perspective, they lack a plan.

But I'm only 21 and anti-social, so what do I know.

snowy

Have you considered that you may have been socialized into this viewpoint?

Your view is not that different from that of the Puritans; their perspective helped to form our society as we know it--even to today.

Step outside of that box for a moment and think about it.

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braisler

I think I see what you are getting at, Xerxys. It irritates me when I hear people complaining about being too 'bored', 'emotionally exhausted', or 'stressed'. Those are self-created conditions. So the solution is also self-created... get off your ass and do something about it.

My MIL is one of those who OFTEN complains about being 'emotionally exhausted'. She is retired, has little to do with herself, but is constantly frazzled, stressed, and emotionally exhausted.

Maybe that is the answer. These self-created problems are a coping mechanism for these people to keep them from having to live their lives and deal with the real world.

I must admit that reading, 'I need Vicodin for the pain, not physical pain, but mental pain' made me laugh out loud. Ya, maybe your 'mental pain' is related to your daily coke habit.

telekinetic

I have as much reason to be stressed out as anyone. I choose not to be. Worrying about life doesn't do shit--do what you can when you can, and then move on and deal with it. I've had this attitude my entire life, from broke to...well...less broke, from single to dating to married, and it's never let me down. I've even been in cuffs a couple times and been relaxed about it...stressing out wasn't going to make the situation any better, and me not freaking out probably was why the situations ended in my favor.

Take away: Life's to short to worry. Just live it.

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twisted no more

Manic_Skafe

I think I understand some of what you mean, when life hits hard you've just gotta stop feeling sorry for yourself and hit back. Dealing with those sorts of people and their "issues" is far too much like watching Garden State the movie - the whole time you've gotta stifle the urge to tell them to Harden The Fuck Up.

But it's always easy to oversimplify the problems of others. Especially when it comes to relationships - love wouldn't be nearly as interesting if you couldn't be blinded by it.

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Xerxys

Snowy, do you really think I am being harsh? We have person 'A' here who does not do much of any thing, then we have person 'B' here who handles the financial effects ... they have a falling out and person 'B' decides to be spitefull and tells person 'A' to GTFO! Now, were assuming that both people are over 18 years old. Don't you think person 'A' undeserving of the outcome, has only her/him-self to blame?

Manic, I agree. I might be oversimplifyng the current situations on both threads but my outlook remains the same. If all the parties had less time on their hands to goof off, more common sense to know that there really is no other way to live besides work or go to school. There really isn't anything else to do in life.

Trying to cure life's ailments like working by drowning it out with other activities such as booz and drugs or even positive re-inforcements such as exercise is foolish. The reason we go get involved in relationships is to seek out the best in ourselves through others. Other activities exist to make sure we enjoy life more...., or live longer. Case in point, if your in a position of stress, you pretty much put yourself there.

dippin

Well, whatever I had to say on those other threads I said it there.

But here I have to say that the idea that anyone who is in financial trouble or relationship trouble is in that position because of a lax work ethic (or whatever you want to call) is a myth. "Hard working" people do go broke all the time, get stuck in messy relationships all the time, and so on. Life might seem simple and carefree when you are 21, single, and debt free.


As you age, opportunities start to dry up, relationships go beyond just "being in love" and things get seriously more complicated. Yes, there are emo girls who put up with a lot of abuse as they are young in exchange for the financial security of older men, and that might be silly. But to reduce that as a sort of the basic problem of relationships and that "hard work" is always the answer is sort of naive and shortsighted.

northstar

Agree with dippin. Your initial post is all over the place. You seem to know very, very little on this topic. Exercise in fact, is crucial in the treatment of stress. Sure, some people are poor at coping with stress. If they knew how to cope better, they may have less stress. Obvious. This is why some people need therapy.

The fact that stress does not seem to bother you is a gift, or you've just never been tested. However, I suggest you try and gain some compassion and insight towards others.

"People only get stressed because they want to. They lack perspective, they lack a plan."

People get stressed because they're in debt and can't get out, because they get cancer, get a mental illness, they can't pay their medical bills, they feel isolated, have recently lost a loved one, their relationship is failing, they're abused by others...etc. These are real problems that getting two jobs for 7 dollars an hour does not cure and no person wishes onto themselves.

I'm not denying that there are people that may embellish their stress and create useless drama, but there are many who have sincere struggles with it.

"But I'm only 21 and anti-social, so what do I know." Precisely.

Xerxys

Wow, nice how you interpreted it dippin and northstar ..... "lax" ???? "Hard workers" ????

My rant was directed at people who don't work at all or worse, folk who actually do work just a little bit, get bored, screw up at work, then complain.

I will even go further and say you will also notice that most, yeah, most of the folk put themselves in situations that they wind up in. Not all of them. I did oversimplify the stuff that relationships are made of. But I fail to get why someone would wind up in a position so compromising you have to literally start over.

"Hard workers" have a reason to complain, I'm just afraid for the overly dependents.... I wasnt being naive man .... when I write about my failed time, I will not be kicking myself for all the shit I would have done but didnt do.

EDIT: Sure, exercise helps, but you have to factor in time. Time to recover from hard times from fixing your mistakes and making money to get out of debt. And I have been tested. I withdrew from society, I was bitter and turning 40 at 18. Till it hit me, It worked just the way friction is meant to work. I grew up.

mixedmedia

Thank you, dippin and northstar. No need for me to jump in here and muck things up.

---------- Post added at 09:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:16 PM ----------

Then your OP is misconceived and badly written. Let alone lacking in any depth or relevance.

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PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

dippin

Well, when you start a post about how putting people to work is the universal cure to all ailments, people might take it that you meant it that way.

Regardless, life and society are too complicated for blanket statements.
People make their own history,but not under conditions of their own choosing

Zeraph

OP: Yeah, let's worship money, that'll solve all our problems

Glory's Sun

I'm just trying to figure out how someone that claims to be "anti-social" can have any real bearings on how society functions.

roachboy

uh.....you do know, xerxys, that "arbeit macht frei" was on a plaque over the entrance to auschwitz, yes?

so what are you arguing again?

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it make you sick.

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Xerxys

Well, zeraph, if that's all you got from the OP then ...



Yeah, that was pretty badly written, me being dumb, but I have to be clear; I'm talkin' about putting people to work. The only upside of it is making the extra $7. My thoughts being that you can do more harm doing nothing than actually doing something that requires you to be on a set schedule.

Gucci:
I don't even claim to know one bit how society works. I do, however seem to have some sort of foresight that comes to me easily. That's why I attribute it to common sense. If individuals were to stop fuckin' around society would be much better. Half our troubles are caused by folks with too much time on their hands.

Glory's Sun

that's why we're in so much economic trouble.. those people with "real jobs" have really put themselves to good use.

I understand the essence of what you are trying to say.. but life is not something that you can plan for. You can try, but it is going to always throw a wrench in there at some point. When this happen, people will either stress it over, or they will work harder. Just because someone stresses out doesn't mean they aren't working or doing something.

As far as working goes, jobs aren't as easy to find these days. So you can say "get another job stupid!" but it's not that easy. Companies are failing, industries are collapsing and who is left to hire anyone?

So instead of blasting people for stressing out, take note of the situation as a whole. Sometimes it's not so black and white.

ngdawg

A little story:

A friend of mine came to see me after work. We sat down, I could see he wasn't real happy. When he started to speak, I became visibly alarmed. He couldn't think of what word to use, his speech was slurred as he was trying to describe what he had just left and how upset he was.
I asked him if he was ok, saying it appeared he'd had a stroke.
What he was was stressed from his job. He hadn't had a stroke at all, he was just so mentally stressed out from what had happened that his brain wasn't running on full power.

So, yea, get a job. That'll remove stress...

I love it when someone says what'll help and they haven't experienced even half of what causes the problem of the day.
Get married, have kids, get a mortgage, get a job you're not particularly fond of but pays barely enough to cover that mortgage and feed the never-stop-growing-kids, fret over impending college costs, balance a shrinking checkbook, lose said hated job, keep having to feed and pay....

Then get back to me.

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JumpinJesus

What is "fucking around" by your definition? And why does it bother you so much that people are fucking around? Without lazy people, how would we know what hard work looks like?

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Tully Mars

No offensive but no thanks I'll pass.

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Psycho Dad

I have no idea why, but I'm reminded of George Carlin's bit about Shell Shock and Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome. I think what Carlin was pointing out was we got to the point we were more concerned with sanitizing the name than doing something about it.

I often feel we have created a society that enables some to throw a pity party, while others are omitted from the guest list. I'm sure therapy can help a great many people, but a great many that need it can't get it for various reasons. Among those reasons, many who need it can't recognize it and if they do, they can't afford it. On the other hand there are a great many getting therapy that most likely don't need it, but have somehow gotten propped up on a crutch that is hard to get off of.

Self help books and Dr. Phil are also things that we could perhaps do without. I'm sure Dr. Phil has some disclaimer before or after the show that nobody notices or pays little attention to that states that all your problems can't be solved in the hour minus commercials. But the rest of the show sure looks like it holds the answer to someone's problems.

Life for most of us is going to have moments of stress. Often those moments will go beyond stressful to damned, outright, fucking mind blowing. And while the OP's idea to get a job may not be totally accurate, it maybe isn't too far off either. We're going to have to be able to come to terms with the fact that we may have to settle for less than what we think we're entitled to.

I know, I'm off on a rant but damn it sometimes that helps settle the stress.

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dlish

why does this sound so depressing? Its very unemotional and looks at it from one perspective. --> money.

what about the joys of family, special moments of love, seeing kids grow up, realizing that you've managed to bring up a whole family dependant on you, and the satisfaction that comes with it.

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ngdawg

Because that's not the theme of the thread

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northstar

roach boy, your post had me cracking up. Can't believe I missed that when I first read it.

"My rant was directed at people who don't work at all or worse, folk who actually do work just a little bit, get bored, screw up at work, then complain." - And I quote in response, "TFpers, I beleive I have a universal answer to all your ailments."

"I will even go further and say you will also notice that most, yeah, most of the folk put themselves in situations that they wind up in. Not all of them. I did oversimplify the stuff that relationships are made of. But I fail to get why someone would wind up in a position so compromising you have to literally start over." - Don't understand what your getting at here and still, it is simply not that simple. Every situation is different. Plenty of people have to start over at different points in their lives.

"Hard workers" have a reason to complain, I'm just afraid for the overly dependents.... I wasnt being naive man .... when I write about my failed time, I will not be kicking myself for all the shit I would have done but didnt do."

Why is it that since you don't go through something do you assume that others don't go through it? You've learned to live without regrets, that's a great accomplishment. However, most normal people do have regrets and some people's regrets overwhelm and depress them. Sure, this is a bad thing but "get a job" is not the solution.

"EDIT: Sure, exercise helps, but you have to factor in time. Time to recover from hard times from fixing your mistakes and making money to get out of debt."

Don't understand your point. Exercise takes 20 minutes a day. Depressed people's brain chemicals are distinctly different from normal's people. You will see a difference if you put the brain under scan of a depressed person and a normal person. Exercise, proper sleep, routine (yes, a job or volunteer gig) and social support may do the trick, or a person may need medication. Mental stress is not always emotional, sometimes it is a chemical disorder.

"And I have been tested. I withdrew from society, I was bitter and turning 40 at 18. Till it hit me, It worked just the way friction is meant to work. I grew up." - How is this being tested? So you were bitter and withdrawn from society. While certainly tough, I mean, it's not uncommon to go through at different points in life. While I do not intend to belittle you and your struggles, that does not equate with any of the things I listed in my original post.

Just out of curiosity, Do you believe that you being antisocial is entirely your own fault and has no exterior environmental or chemical sources? And if it is entirely your fault, then what the hell is wrong with you? (My point being, you being how you are has many factors.)

I work with emotionally disturbed children. It's just laughable that you have these opinions, I'd love for you to spend time volunteering in a psychiatric ward or special needs school and see if you still think the way you do afterwords.

The_Jazz

I didn't read any further that this because, well, you seem to lack the basic common sense that it takes to apologize for making such a, well, fucking stupid mistake. Is that too harsh? Not really. As roachboy pointed out, you're hanging your hat ON THE ENTRANCE SIGN TO AUSCHWITZ! Really, everything after that becomes the rantings of a buffoon. If you're going to try to make some sort of economic argument, you could at least have the common decency to not base it on the words that every Jew, Gypsy, Slav, etc. that died in that death camp had to march underneath.

Just thought that you should know. If I'd been able to hang out here more often, I'd have done this sooner.

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"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Xerxys

Hmmmm.... I'll try again.

[user]northstar[\user], have you ever met someone so pathetic it doesnt evoke pity in you but instead anger? I grew up with common sense being beaten into me because I was one of those emo kids who just never got it. No I wasn't bulied, but I wound up depressed because "no one understood me".

Dude, have fun explaining to someone who has the audacity to come home from a regular 8 hour shift and say I'm mentally stressed. A job that requires you to sit at a desk. Person who is fat, sleeps upright because he has a "sleeping disorder" and "sleep apnea" but still eats fast food and does nothing except absorb the tube from 5PM to bedtime whence the cycle begins again.

Of course the person is depressed, what do you think will happen? Have fun telling this person to commit to an exercise routine not so he can be slim and healthy and famous but simply to enable him to handle the "stress". It is my solemn belief that when one has to adhere to a set schedule because if they dont, they'll be fired, (and it pays, very little but it pays) they're gonna have less time worrying and deepening a funk.

And you work with emotionally disturbed children. Not the same. Hmmm, wait a minute, maybe so, I would encourage them to take up extra classes and PE, exercise, anything to make sure they don't have more than 30 minutes a day in their head. This I believe would be the equivalent of getting a job for an adult. You can't tell an adult to get exercise, if he/she went to grade school, they know that you wake up, you have to work and play in order to remain healthy. I'm not oversimplifying that, IT IS SIMPLE!!!! Easier said than done, I know, but answer is one thing and one thing only; get off your ass and do something constructive.

There are two kinds of depressed people, those with a chemical imbalance, and those who fucked. The ones with a chemical imbalance have a reason, but what about the ones who messed up,. well,

what do you say to someone deep in debt?
what do you say to someone who smokes weed instead of doing that paper due in a week?
what do you say to someone that drinks instead of buying food for their kids?

Get exercise ???? Pick up a hobby ???? That list can be endless ...

And life ailments man ... not illnesses. Being sick can only be cured by medication. I mean people who go on whining and complaining and filling your air with negative energy because they can't do something as simple as getting a job anywhere.

And Yes, the reason I am anti-social is my fault. I couldn't be bothered to get to know others. I only recently started finding out there exists other human beings I like and decided to befriend them. But that's about it.

P.S. Use the quote function man, it makes posts easier to read.

I'm not advocating for slavery dude. But that saying is also significant in my life.

Zeraph

I didn't read everything you just wrote, cause well, the logic of your argument has been poisoned since the beginning. Just write this off as a rant, and be done with this thread. Maybe explore your ideas further, and then write a new, well thought out thread. Good luck!

Cynthetiq

you may believe something to be significant, but again, first impressions can lead people to just tune you out based on some minuscule bit of information. You may think "tough shit for them" and maybe that might be true. But there's also the chance that you turned off a whole section of people just because you had little to no compassion or humanity.

Without dredging up old necro threads, we've had someone posit a similar thing, something like depression and losers or something like that. Yeah, over the years, that guy has changed his mind.

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snowy

Xerxys, please do me a favor when you go back to school--take some sociology classes.

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dippin

What a great idea. Hey, maybe you could turn this rant into something bigger, like a book. You could call it something like "fighting against lies, stupidity and cowardice," or maybe a shorter title called "my struggle." Just like you chose to use the original sentence in German, you could do the title in German as well, to sound more distinguished. Something like "des Kampfes gegen Lüge, Dummheit und Feigheit" or "Mein Kampf." Then you could go about how we should be putting these fucking losers who only have themselves to blame to work. The losers and all those fucking made up conditions like "sleep disorders" and "sleep apnea." Just make sure to put these conditions in scare quotes. Put them all to work.


/sarcasm, by the way.

The_Jazz

If this is what you think my point was, then I'm amazed you graduated high school, let alone went on to any sort of higher education that didn't involve a spatula and a fryer.

Starting your premise with a famous Nazi slogan when you're ignorant of what it means is one thing. Being completely unrepentant about it when several people point it out to you make you look like a something between a douchebag and a white supremist. Big range, I know, but you're the one who's got to figure out where you are in it.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Glory's Sun

are we done here? I mean.. there is no real reason to keep this open unless a whole new OP is formatted.. in which case a new thread can be started.

---

-+-{Important TFP Staff Message}-+- I've closed the thread for a couple of reasons. The first one should be rather obvious. I feel as though the thread has run it's course, and based on the comments, not going to get any better in any way. I would like the OP to be reframed with a bit more depth to where we can actually discuss matters instead of discussing a rant. Thanks