robot_parade

So, I happened to list something on freecycle today, and one of the respondants included a link to her website in her .sig. The URL is something like 'goodorganics.com' (but not exactly that), and since this is a local freecycle group, I thought it might have something to do with organic produce in the area, or something like that, so I clicked. It turns out to be a 'magnetic therapy' quack store, with all the usual 'magnetic therapy' quack pills promising health, long life, etc. This isn't even the magnetic bracelets and whatnot that some people might think is possibly true - this is 'magnetic pills' and 'magnetic drops' that are supposed to cure what ails you with the power of magnatism.

Now, I know this is bullshit, and really, anybody who has a decent grasp of science, or does a modicum of research should know this too. And it just makes me angry that this person is selling this garbage, and that people are buying it. Sure, it's a free country, people can buy any snake oil they want, but still - the complete lack of even the most basic scientific knowledge just annoys the hell out of me. Does anybody else have this problem?

Now, I know, that *someone* here is going to be a true believer in magnetic therapy, and probably several people are going to be 'open-minded' about it, so let me get this out of the way. You are wrong. Not 'maybe wrong', not even 'probably wrong', just wrong. This isn't something scientifically debatable, this isn't something you can take on faith, and might still be true even if there isn't any proof. This is complete and utter BS. There is no way this works. This isn't the way the universe works. I have no interest in debating this with you.

Back to the topic at hand - should I just get over this? Is there any value in ranting about this sort of thing when I encounter it? Should I live and let live?

hannukah harry

i'd say live and let live unless they bring it up as a topic of conversation. no reason to start ranting and raving for no reason.

out of curiousity, how do you know magnetic therapy doesn't work? have studies been done? i've always assumed it was new-age mumbo-jumbo, but never looked into it.

__________________
shabbat shalom, mother fucker! - the hebrew hammer

Willravel

My ignorance frustrates me, but it usually can be used as motivation to learn. That's a part of being sentient.

I can't control the ignorance of others so I try not to worry about it (unless it hurts people).

Jetée

Right. I have no qualms in not knowing everything, or even not knowing the simple basics of a topic I have no firm grasp of understanding.

Becuase of this all-encompassing fact, I have no justifable right to dismiss a claim without the proper and executable knowledge within my hold to prove and/or disprove another's contention, no matter how farfetched. Either do the necessary research to disprove 'magnetic therapy' or simply leave it be. Those that are willing to believe in it will find their desired results in form or antoher.

The difference between a smart man and a wise man is that a smart man knows what to say, a wise man knows whether or not to say it. ~Frank M. Garafola

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

The_Jazz

Hmmm. If faced with a similar situation, I wouldn't be irritated by the message so much as the disengenuous way it was slipped in. Regardless of whether or not there was any credence to the claims, the way it was disguised as something completely different would have pissed me off.

RP, you got spammed.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

aberkok

The best response is to use your information to get in the way of the ignorance. If they shout, you must shout louder.

Figuratively speaking, of course.

__________________
!check out my new blog! http://arkanamusic.wordpress.com

Warden Gentiles: "It? Perfectly innocent. But I can see how, if our roles were reversed, I might have you beaten with a pillowcase full of batteries."

Jinn

Nothing makes me angrier.

Quackwatch is a great site, robot, and you might enjoy it. It was passed on to me from Ustwo and it's great when I'm feeling especially angry at the "ancient Chinese footpads" that you put on at night to "detoxify" your body with their magic.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

robot_parade

Well, for one thing, this just isn't how magnets work. I guess belief in this sort of thing stems from the widespread ignorance about 'energy' - as in 'healing energy'...there simply ain't no such thing. Here's a good summary:

Magnet Therapy: A Skeptical View

While on the one hand I agree with those here who say 'live and let live', and 'calm down, dude', on the other, the almost willfull ignorance of people *does* affect me - these people vote, for crying out loud.

Anyway.

sound chaser

I think it depends. I don't think knowledge for the sake of knowledge is some optimum good. Many people seemingly only value knowledge that has a direct bearing on their lives. I guess it boils down to rational ignorance.

speshul-k

Ignorance is one my major pet peeves!

filtherton

Ignorance is part of the human condition. It used to piss me off, but then I came to the conclusion that getting mad at ignorant people for being ignorant is a colossal waste of emotion.

I think that the older I get, the more I equate anger with fear, in that both are really only useful when they can be acted upon.

thingstodo

If there weren't ignorant people you wouldn't have a chance to be smarter than them. Just like there wouldn't be a sunset without the sunrise, a new car wouldn't feel the same without an old car...you get the picture, right?

__________________
If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

Jetée

I am going to expand the definition to further express my thoughts on the issue.

Ignorance in others and in myself is a minor inconvenience, which can be remedied by a proper amount of knowledge gathering, whether it be by teaching or learning.

The one type of ignorance that can quite upset my manner is a stubborn unwillingness to learn and concede a point on topic that is contrary to all possible venues of discussion. It either boils down to me foolhardily agreeing to a contention I know is unsound, or to continue an improvident dispute with one that is not open to bend on their opinion regardless of all evidence to the contrary. If one wishes to converse on a topic, he/she must also be willing to accept that they might not know all there is, and that they could gain insight they might not have had about before the discussion took place. To just promote a viewpoint without any back-and-forth criticism is one that perhaps cannot stand against such arguments. I try to avoid those that put forth these outlooks because they only wish to envelop you with their assumption of why you need to convert to their viewpoint; and it makes no sense for me to expend my energy to fruitlessly try to get some sense across to one who is both ignorant and arrogant enough to not ponder the postulation seriously.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

Iliftrocks

The problem stems from unrealistic expectations.... You expect that people can think, or even give a damn

I've long struggled with this. You just have to give up on the willfully stupid.

__________________
bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

Psycho Dad

I thought I agreed with that, and I still do to a certain degree. But our own ignorance shouldn't be a cause for frustration. It should be an opportunity to learn.

The ignorance of others though can be frustrating. Although I don't worry so much about those who don't consider basic scientific principals as much as I do those who "hate fags because it says to in the Bible" for example.

__________________
Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

mixedmedia

This is how I feel about it. The only ignorance that makes me angry is the ignorance that spawns prejudice and bad will towards others. Granted, this is not always the result of true ignorance, but rather a quite willful determination. Which is infuriating. The latter being more far-ranging and pervasive, from my observation.

For someone not to hold some practical knowledge that I feel they should have doesn't bother me in the least.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

simulacrality

Does it even really matter if magnetic therapy is total twaddle or not - sounds like you´re more chessed off cos someone pretended to be interested in you FREE item and actually it turns ou they are just a big fat spammer . . . Its not the same but I feel it might be appropriate to share with you an incident that happened last week. I signed into my facebook profile to find that a very good friend of mine had made the following post on my wall:

"Wow! I never knew how naughty you could be . . . check for yourself here" (some website)

My first reaction was "of gosh what have i done", then "Oh gosh who was photographing/filming me when i did the thing that i had hyperthetically done"? then "oh gosh everyone who looks on my wall will see me doing the thing that i hypothetically did" (which was so "naughty"). Guess what i did? I clicked on the link and suprise suprise turns out to be spam!?

I contacted the friend who sent it - turns out his account was hacked into. Anyway to cut a long story short I was angry and not because this link had infested my computer with porn, hacked into my bank account and stolen all my limited funds BUT because I had, indeed been ignorant.

Also, for all you facebookers out there - watch out for this message . . .

kutulu

That's not how science works. If people who practice magnet therapy want to claim that it works they need to produce the proof.

abaya

I bet my uncle runs that website. No joke.

I avoid contact with him whenever possible, because I physically want to punch him hard in the face every time he opens his mouth.

Ignorance to this degree makes me almost violently angry at times. I understand that I am also very ignorant about a great number of things, but I try not to open my mouth about something unless I have some clue what I am talking about (or at least I give a disclaimer that what I am about to say may be full of shit). With someone like my uncle, who clearly thinks that the REST of us are all the ignorant ones (and his magnets are going to take him into the afterlife while the rest of us die earthly deaths from the mercury poisoning from our dentists--oh, and by the way, JFK Jr's death was organized by Hillary Clinton, did you know?--my uncle informed me of this at our last unlucky meeting)... I have to avoid these people, because they bring out my worst judgmental self.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Jetée

I believe I detailed that in my second statement.
I stated this because we work in reverse when we partake in discussions; nobody starts a thread with all the evidence to refute every single commentary that may arise. What we can hope to do is solely try to understand the topic, and in some manner, "try to disprove" the other's claim by asking questions on how it works.


Also, I don't know about the person who spammed robot_parade, but my guess is that the person only advocates the service of magnetic therapy, and may not at all be a higher-level practictioner of it; at least that is what I gather about those who spam outlandish products and services.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

thespian86

It's nice to be perfect eh guys?

I get frustrated but I'm a sophist just like the rest of you. I claim to know things I don't know; it's part of being alive.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

PonyPotato

I get frustrated with it, yes, especially when someone is using ignorance either as an excuse or in a harmful way. People ignorant of animal care or basic humane treatment should not own horses, for example. Someone in a work group totally ignorant of basic grammar rules or the subject at hand can make me angry, of course, but often that isn't their fault.

But just not understanding something or believing in something I find silly? Not that bothersome.

__________________
"Without passion man is a mere latent force and possibility, like the flint which awaits the shock of the iron before it can give forth its spark."
— Henri-Frédéric Amiel

abaya

No, not perfect--read my post again. There's a difference between knowing one's facts and yet having a mind open enough to admit to being wrong, or at least disclaiming that what you are about to say might be wrong... and being flat-out wrong, and even when the evidence is shoved in one's face, to refuse to even crack one eye open to examine it carefully (and perhaps have to admit that someone else might know more). There is always something to be gained from at least being aware of, and acknowledging, one's ignorance publicly. Denying it and hiding it when everything indicates that you are wrong--yes, that is incredibly frustrating for other people. We are not all equally qualified to be equally knowledgeable about every single topic in the world. People are trained to become experts for a reason--not because they have a blog and know how to type, for example.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

dirtyrascal7

There are many people who have made a very decent living from others' ignorance. Politicians, tobacco companies, etc.

__________________
"Tie yourself to your limitless potential, rather than your limiting past."

"Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him."

girldetective

Those who prey on people who are ignorant make me angry. Those who are ignorant frustrate me. Those who are naive interest me.

__________________
As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata

Cynthetiq

Both ignorantand stupid people upset me. My own ignorance and stupidity frustrate me to no end.

A wise man said to me one day, "We talk of freedom of speech, but the first freedom should be freedom from ignorance. What use is freedom of speech to a person who never went to school? What will he say? Why would anyone listen to him?"

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Psycho Dad

At the risk of getting off topic... I don't think it is right to automatically equate education with wisdom or knowledge. They can all meld together beautifully, but the absence of one can leave the others often useless.

I'm just sayin'...

__________________
Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

roachboy

i get impatient with it, including with my own.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Ayashe

I find it irritating when people put their faith into ridiculous ideas. At the same time, I do believe that some people do need to believe in something to feel better. I work in a clinic and have patients tell me all the time about the benefits of cayenne pepper, saw palmetto, various tonics and vitamins. As long as they are not dangerous or contraindicated by their current conditions or medications, if it really makes them feel better what is the harm? I don't really care as long as they are not shoving their "wisdom" in my face.

Case in point:

Coworker of mine who happens to be a very religious person was diagnosed with Celiac Disease. She has not been able to tolerate wheat in years. Ingestion causes her to have awful diarrhea to the point she has at times had to depend upon adult diapers. She went to a "healer" who touched her. Ok, you believe you feel better fine, I will leave it at that. She went on to talk about her birthday, she wasn't able to go out because she had stomach trouble. She holds such faith that she cannot accept that there was no cure. Fine, I drop the subject not wishing to get into an argument or to insult her religion in any way. As I walk away, she suggests to me that I see this healer for my heart condition. Thank you for your advice but I have a very good Electrophysiologist and have surgery planned to correct it. Oh but.. she continues on to explain her point. It is really hard not to cut loose on someone who is so persistent. Being at work I tend to be more choosy about my words.

levite

I hate ignorance, but the only times it really pisses me off are: closed-minded ignorance (when people may or may not know they're ignorant, but are absolutely confident that they are right, and no one else could ever be right who doesn't agree with them) and willful ignorance (when they know they are ignorant, they have chosen to be ignorant, and they are proud of being ignorant).

BTW, am I the only one who, when faced with the question "Does ignorance make you angry?" really wanted to answer "I don't know, and that makes me mad!"

Just me? Anyone? Anyone?

Bueller?

__________________
Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

Cernunnos

Igorance is a fact of life. The amount of human knowledge in the world is accelerating to such a degree that it is impossible to obtain anything but a miniscule fraction of it, let alone retain what you have learned. Take a deep breath and realize that it is something which can't be helped.

Those who choose to believe in pseudoscience, in my opinion, are misguided. The benefits attributed to these various forms of alternate medicine are sometimes with merit, but the lack of hard fact supporting them is disconcerting when the proportion of individuals relying solely on these cures is increasing at such a rapid rate.

I don't harbor any anger towards ignorance or even those who intentionally cling to their beliefs while refusing to accept evidence which refutes the effectiveness of their 'cure'. People assign meanings and see correlations, it can't be prevented. Attempting to convince an individual that his or her belief is false will often merely lead to a stronger conviction. Allow them to live as they wish, and so long as they do not force their ideas on you after you've expressed disinterest in the subject, it is rather pointless to counter their arguments.

If confronted with an individual who holds strong beliefs and is clearly striving to convince me as to its positive effects, I will usually listen politely and state that I'll give it some thought, then intentionally switch to a separate topic with a question that demands an answer from them. Once the topic is planted firmly on a lighter note, I may end the conversation altogether, explaining that I must excuse myself for a believable reason.

It's less stressful to listen to a person talk for a minute than to argue for ten. Displaying hostility or disdain will only inflame them and potentially cause a bridge to burn. Ignorant people are everywhere, and you're always going to have to deal with them. Get used to it and pick your battles wisely.

cyklone

I think there is a big difference between ignorance and stupidity. Ignorance is just lack of knowledge and is curable; stupidity isn't. Not knowing about magnetism is ignorance. Understanding how magnetism works and believing it cures ills, or that liquid can be magnetic. That's stupidity.

ItWasMe

It isn't ignorance itself that angers me. It's the ignorant people who spout off at the mouth in a condescending way that I would like to throttle. Example, my daughter has diabetes, has had it since she was 5 years old. I hate for people to learn that, because I get alot of responses like "My God! That young? Exactly what did you feed that poor child?!" WTF? Her diabetes was not caused by food she ate. Diabetes is an auto-immune disease...bla bla bla...edited and shortened...no matter what I say, at least half the people walk away with smug looks on their faces, not believing a word I said.

As far as the magnets, it's entirely possible it works for some people for the same reason some 'faith healers' work...because the 'patient' believes it will work, and the mind is a powerful thing. Maybe it won't cure diabetes, but blocking pain could be another matter. Just my thought.

__________________
. . . . . . . . . . . . . .


"Ok, no more truth-or-dare until somebody returns my underwear" ~ George Lopez

I bake cookies just so I can lick the bowl. ~ ItWasMe

curiousbear

I get angry with anything that makes me feel helpless. It includes my ignorance, others ignorance too. I just articulate it. Some times I get frustrated and angry

Plaid13

That magnetic stuff can work to cure many things!!!! its called the placebo effect. People believe it can help and they try it and the body/mind does the rest. just like sugar pills. Same effect prayer can have. Just because no medical proof for it to work has been found dosnt mean it wouldnt work. Ignorance can go both ways dont always assume you know everything about anything. Dont let it get to you unless it effects you personally.

KnifeMissile

What the hell?! Where are all the nuts from this thread? Have the demographics of the TFP changed once again?