jewels

I've been smoking cigarettes since I came out of the womb, and my kids have always hated it. That's one of the reasons I keep chewing Chantix

Anyway, my oldest has recently broken off a long term relationship and is about the age of the average TFPer so someone here must get this. It seems she often goes to hookah lounges. At first, I thought it was a place to smoke opium (this is what one learns from too much Sherlock Holmes and Anais Nin) but she explained that it was tobacco. She's a little accepting and when I asked how she could do that, she told me "it's not that kind of tobacco." She thinks it has no nicotine since it's not made by Phillip Morris.

Best I can google is that it's flavored tobacco and these clubs rose out of some sort of celebration or acceptance of diverse cultures. But what's with the tobacco (I could understand if it were pot a la the "peace pipe") and how does this get rationalized by nonsmokers who wouldn't even date a smoker?

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

shesus

Here's a link I found: http://www.goaskalice.columbia.edu/2456.html

Here's an excerpt from the link:
I smoked for over 12 years and quite about 2 years ago. However, I will still smoke a hookah about once a year when we visit my brother-in-law.

I think people who don't smoke will do this because it tastes and smells different and is done socially.

__________________
Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

levite

I like hookah bars, myself, although I admit I first enjoyed hookahs in college, for smoking dirty salad (weed with hash mixed in). But later, when I went to Israel, I developed a taste for hanging out and smoking regular nargilah tabak (so they call tobacco hookahs in Israel) from time to time. It's a mellow hang out thing with friends, I never could see doing it alone, and I never did it more than once a week at the most. But I still enjoy going from time to time with friends. Hookah culture is a lot like pot culture-- probably one reason why there's so much overlap-- in that it involves a lot of sharing and a lot of ritual.

And as for arising out of shared cultures, I don't know.... Hookah cafes are popular in Israel and the Arab countries, as well as in many parts of the Indian subcontinent. I have never been to a hookah cafe in America that was not run by an Israeli, an Arab, a Persian, or someone from South Asia-- with the sole exception of one in the front of a head shop that was run by a Dutch guy who was clearly trying to emulate the Amsterdam experience sans the dank.

In any case, the tobacco is cured and flavored heavily with fruit and/or herbal syrups, which some can find a bit overpowering. I never got into really sweet flavors like pineapple or grape, but strong herbal flavors like rose or lemon verbena are nice; lots of folks in Israel seem to enjoy lemon-mint, and I've occasionally enjoyed flavors as sweet as pomegranate or orange. Generally, one bowl of tobacco lasts two to four people for one to three hours, in my experience; and at least in my crowd, we rarely shared more than one bowl in an evening.

The notion that hookah tobacco is free of nicotine, however, is completely erroneous. If it is made by local companies in the Middle East or South Asia, it is generally far more free of noxious synthetic additives than American tobacco, nor has it been genetically modified to increase the nicotine concentration, as American tobacco has been; but all tobacco-- as far as I know-- has some amount of nicotine. Some of the more deleterious effects of the smoke are somewhat mitigated by the water filtration, but not entirely so. I am inclined to doubt the notion that the cooling of the water means that one inhales more deeply and holds the smoke for longer: that's probably true if you're smoking pot or hash, where it increases the effect to inhale deeper and hold longer. But in my experience, one smokes a hookah for the flavor and the atmosphere, not for any effects of the tobacco. One generally does in hold the smoke for very long, nor have I seen anyone ever inhale hookah tobacco the way weed or hash is sucked in.

In short, it tends to be much less addictive than smoking cigarettes or chewing tobacco; done in moderation, it's probably unlikely to give you cancer or emphysema. Nonetheless, I am sure it is not as harmless as the new-fallen snow, either. But my guess is that it's probably not much worse for you than getting drunk from time to time, or smoking herb from time to time.

__________________
Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

jewels

Shesus: No, I haven't smoked a hookah but have shared many bongs in the past. Does that count? I get it as a social thing to do. My daughter's always been such an adamant nonsmoker; that's what blows me away. I guess she sees it as something different.

levite: I agree that it's probably less harmful than cigarette smoking or second hand smoke from cigarettes. Maybe I need to view it as having a couple of drinks or a joint.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

Willravel

Hookah culture doesn't do well with asthma culture, which is why I don't do hookah. Also, it strikes me as being somewhat tacky when removed from it's cultural context.

JumpinJesus

Didn't I read somewhere that you run a 4'30" mile? Doesn't your asthma affect that? I'm not a doctor nor do I have asthma, so I'm not too up to date on how asthma affects strenuous athletic activity and I'm too lazy to google it to sound like an expert.

As far as cultural context...everything about our culture is a mishmash of things we've taken from other cultures. My brother picked up his hookah imbibing proclivities when he was serving in Iraq. For him, it's a tie to his time there as well as a means to relax. He has many friends who served with him who come to enjoy it with him, so for them it's more of an exercise in bonding. I wouldn't call it tacky.

__________________
"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

snowy

Jewels, here is a fact sheet from the CDC with more information about the health effects of using a hookah to smoke: http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_stat...ts/hookahs.htm

It isn't harmless; that said, an adult should be able to ascertain for themselves whether or not it is an acceptable risk. It is a social thing, like passing the bong/pipe around. I personally don't smoke hookah, but I've known people who did--it's become pretty ubiquitous among college-age people. We're more the pass-the-bong-around kind of people

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Willravel

I use Albuterol for attacks:

and Qvar nightly, for prevention:


I have to puff on my Albuterol about once a week on average when the air has even a moderate amount of allergens. Or when I'm around cats. Smoke often can trigger my asthma, as well as pollution.

Seaver

I've never known anyone to be come addicted to tobacco off of Hookah. It does have nicotine, but very little compared to cigarettes or cigars.

It is flavored and tastes good. Basically it's a chill place your kid can hang out with his/her friends, without the noise of clubs and before the availability of much alcohol. Relax, there are much worse things he/she could be doing.

__________________
"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas

ratbastid

Word is, hookahs are WAY worse for you than cigarettes (NOT that cigarettes aren't bad for you) precisely because it SEEMS so harmless. But you end up inhaling a whole lot more of the bad stuff because it's cooled and flavored and easy to smoke.

I am a 10 pack-year smoker who quit 7 years ago, and I've indulged in hookahs a couple times, and enjoyed it very much, but I have no pretense that it's healthier for me than my former habit.

Willravel

Like pumping fruity drinks into your date.

ratbastid

...If you want to give her cancer, rather than getting laid...

JumpinJesus

I quit smoking a year ago. While visiting my brother over Christmas, he offered the hookah. At first I hesitated, but went ahead anyway. I found that I had no desire to continue smoking after enjoying the hookah. I think it's a bit different because while people might smoke a pack of cigarettes a day, people rarely smoke from the hookah throughout the day.

__________________
"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

dlish

The Hookah culture is huge here in Dubai and across the Middle east, especially in Egypt. it goes by many names, shisha, argila, hookah to name a few.

there is no such thing as a shisha cafe here, every restaurant has a shisha smoking sectionl. usually after dinner.

as far as health is concerened, ive read that one session is equivelant to 80 cigarettes. thats when i decided to give up smoking it socially. i havent had one in 8 months now.

they are quite popular with westerners here and everybody does it. tobacco is extremely cheap here because of the lack of tax in this place so smoking is very popular.

there are anti smoking laws gradually coming into place and the shisha trend here is under threat...looks like the shisha culture in under threat in the middle east..who would have thought

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

jewels

This is truly fascinating to me.

Even though it's disguised and fruity, it's still smoking. A tobacco pipe is still a tobacco pipe. I wonder why they haven't come out with flavored cigarettes?

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

dlish

probably the same reason that governments wont let tobacco companies put flashy ads on their packaging, to discourage people from taking them, up.

imagine tobacco companies using fruit as a marketing tool. fruit s are healthy, so guards drop, so you'll probably get an influx of ppl thinking that its ok to smoke fruit flavoured cigarettes as opposed to non fruit flavoured.

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

jewels

That's what I mean. The shishas are on their way out in the originating cultures, but in the USA, it's fairly new. Maybe it's our tobaccos industry's way of coping since they've lost so much clientele?

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

roachboy

alot of the popularity has to do with the way city smoking bans are worded.
shisha are apparently not banned.
personally, i kinda like to smoke em, but only once in a while.
it's a social thing.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

dlish

i seem to find them 'in' in more trendy, grungy, lefty, loony and alternative areas of cities where being a little different or eccentric isnt a problem.

most of the flavoured tobacco would come from the middle east though and not from tobacco companies in the states. so i dont know how the tobacco companies are 'coping' as you say.

i know australia you'd be hard pressed to find any fruit tobacco in any place but a middle eastern grocery shop

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

jewels

A-ha! I didn't know that. Thank you for providing that interesting tidbit.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

Derwood

I don't know tons of people who hookah, but those who do are cigarette smokers anyways

dlish

not necesarily derwood.

im one who used to socially smoke hookah, and ive never put a cigarette in my mouth..

the hookah culture is more about chilling out and socializing with what you thought wasnt that bad for you. i can see your logic..u could safely say that all smokers would try a hookah, but not all who try the hookah are smokers.

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

levite

I like the occasional hookah, and I hate cigarettes, and have never been a cigarette smoker. The hookah is actually my one bending of my general rule, which is: "Never smoke anything that won't get you stoned."

__________________
Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

Derwood

I think I was unclear. I meant that of the people I know who hookah, all of them also smoke cigs. I wasn't trying to make a blanket statement about all hookah users