Jenna

I would have still gone out to parties and drank if my parents had offered it to me. I think approaching the fact of being safe while being out is more appropriate personally. Drinking at home with a few friends never was as appealing as a huge college party.

ottopilot

Pretty much my sentiment. My child, like many will probably experiment. There's only so much of your child's outside behavior you can control. Hopefully we have armed her with information and good decision making skills. Beyond that, they will do what they do.

However, if I find out that my child was at a house where alcohol or any impairing or illegal substance was provided, I will absolutely prosecute and/or show up on their doorstep. The dangers of accidents, alcohol poisoning, and inappropriate behavior (lowered inhibitions) are too great for immature minds and bodies. It is irresponsible for adults to facilitate such events.

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mixedmedia

I agree with jenna and otto.

It's much more important to teach your child to be safe regardless of the circumstances.

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Meditrina

Very interesting topic to ponder, being the mother of 2. My parents never drank, or at least not in front of me, and never taught me how to drink responsibly. That was obvious when I went away to college. My first 2 years are a blur. Now, my children see me have a glass of wine or a beer, now and then. I do not hide it from them. But I also do not drink when we are at family parties, if I am the one driving home. My hopes are to teach them how to drink responsibly, no drinking and driving, stay at a friend's house if you cannot drive home, stuff like that. Will I let them have a taste when they are older, but not the legal drinking age? yeah, I probably will. As long as they are with me. I think. I will have to give this more thought as they get older.

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Xerxys

You all speak of doing something in order to prepare or make a young one responsible but you forget, the reason there is a law in the first place. Think about the argument that you make, "You comply because it's the law, would you have agreed to the law before it was changed?"

There is a phrase, "The Law is THE LAW!!" This simply means that *common sense* a people cannot police themselves!! That's why we have the law, numerous religions and activists who strive to change towards evolution!!

Drugs have remained illegal for long not because we simply like it that way but because (call it puritanical!!) we don't want the future to turn into stoners!! And I know, alcohol has been a fundamental part of the civil society since time immemorial, (that's not an exaggeration, alcohol is important to keep people from rioting!!)

For as long as president after president, activist after activist does not change the law, that will not be because of influence, because we did impeach Clinton who had a lot of influence, it will be because it's the right thing we know to do, until we find out otherwise. That is why THE LAW IS THE LAW, because it's always right.

Willravel

Even without a law, I wouldn't have given my children alcohol until they were adults. Rationality, morality and identity are still forming. Like it or not, young people lack the necessary skills to make the decisions adults are expected to make. This extends to alcohol. If you don't believe me, take a look at drunk driving statistics.

guyy

Hmm, and slavery was the law of the land in many places. Always right? How about Jim Crow? Feudalism?

From the other side, there are laws in areas where people are generally self-policing. I don't think it's laws that keep traffic flowing. (Would you start driving on the left on alternate Tuesdays if there were no law against it?) Or, what keeps you from killing your kids? That it's illegal? Really?

I note that many, if not all, of the examples of the horrors of sub-21 drinking given above are of auto accidents. It's interesting that we can simply bracket the carnage that automobiles produce. Why is drink demonised while autos get a free ride? I'll grant you that a few of the people who died in drunk driving accidents might have had bad things happen to them on the train or waiting for the bus, but by and large, with a better transportation system, there'd be far fewer of these sorts of tragedies.

This is not to deny that people choke on their alcohol induced vomit, die from alcohol poisoning, drunkenly walk into the Mississippi and drown, etc. They do. However, i'm not sure the laws are really helping.

Cynthetiq

So it's the law for selective service, and in some countries mandatory service of armed forces. I'm not so much a fan of the "I can die for my country but I can't have a beer" argument, but it stands in the face of your statement. 18 is an adult, but not adult enough to drink beer.

Shouldn't then by that same rationality, morality, and idenity come into play as well for signing contracts? By your extention 18 year olds should not be allowed to sign binding contracts.

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Charlatan

Shit at age 18 I had moved out of the house and was paying my own way through University (well me and a little help from student loans).

Good thing the drinking age in Ontario was 19 (18 across the river in Quebec). I guess we mature faster than they do in San Francisco.

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Willravel

"Don't sign contracts and drive". Apples and oranges.

Char, check out drunk driving stats in the US vs. Canada.

Cynthetiq

How is it that it's apples and oranges?

There is a reason that contracts with minors are not legally binding, because basically the reasons you stated.

"Don't sign contracts and drive" is a fallacy you know and understand that.

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Willravel

Contracts do not cause inebriation. It's inebriation that sets them apart.

"Don't sign contracts and drive" was meant to illustrate that point; alcohol impairs judgment, contracts do not.

Ustwo

Alcohol impairs the judgment of adults of any age, the issue of judgment is the judgment to drink to the point it becomes a problem.

If your judgment is poor on drinking, odds are your judgment is poor on signing a contract too.

TBH I'm sort of on your side on this one, mostly because I think for a lot of kids these days 18 is NOT a good time to declare them an adult, they lack the judgment and skills to be called one.

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surferlove007

I had no interest in alcohol until the summer following my graduation from High School. I was 18 when I had my first drink and deemed myself responsible enough to handle it. In High School I took my sport very seriously, Swimming. I viewed my body as a tool and didn't have any interest in introducing alcohol, drugs or anything of that nature into it.
I was always the friend who stayed behind to drive my friends home if they had been drinking. Thats just who I was and that was fine, I knew at least one of us from the group was sober and able to take care of people if they needed it. Before going to college my girlfriend Victoria told me I needed to at least experience what it was like being drunk so it wouldn't be a rude awakening at Texas Tech.
My first experience involved wine. She and i went and got a bunch of junk food, we went to her guest house and set up our beds and got ready for a fun night. I had about 2 glasses of red wine and I was pretty out of it. I remember it was a very fun experience and it was very safe. I do remember waking up and puking my guts out into the transhcan nearby (which she strategically placed). I couldn't ask for a better experience to start out with. I woke up without a hangover. My mom and dad knew I didn't have an interest in drinking because I drove my friends home a lot.
I believe a part of me choosing not to drink until I was 18 was a personal choice. While my parents influenced me, they did not put down a law in the house stating that me drinking was unacceptable. My sister is not a big fan of drinking either and shes 22. My parents did not drink in front of me from an early age and while alcohol was in the home it was never worried about. We also went to a Souther Baptist church which as many know does not promote drinking or dancing.
Every set of parents are different but I believe the choice is up to the child and their goals. I was disciplined while doing my sport so that is probably what affected my choice the most. My friends drank and attempted to get me to but I just always said no thanks and it wasn't a problem.
Now when James and I go out, if we're drinking we always decide on a DD before we even leave. We're responsible about it. At Texas A&M they have the safe ride system. Aggies stay up till 3am and will go pick you up from where you are and take you home with no questions. Keeps people safe and thats awesome. I think more schools need to implement that instead of just telling kids to abstain.
Now that I'm 20, I don't feel ashamed to have some wine in front of my parents. I have talked to my dad about drinking and he's been fine with it because he knows I'm responsible. He knows I would not put myself in a bad situation where I'd be driving or be able to be taken advantage of. At home we have a pretty stocked wet bar and its never been a problem. Ultimately drinking or not drinking is a personal choice from your child. You can influence that choice however at the end of the day its their call. My parents also always told me if I needed them to come get me then they would come no questions asked. Which means a lot too.

savmesom11

Amen will....amen

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samurai_x44

I'm really surprised by the amount of people who blindly obey the law and using as a justification "it's the law".

Back on topic. I wouldn't provide alcohol for my kids as in buy them alcohol. However, if we(the family) were eating and drinking wine or having a beer during a hot summer day, I wouldn't exclude them (unless they where young <13ish) by not letting them drink alcohol like everyone else. I might dilute their wine a little at first though. So basically I wouldn't put a restriction on alcohol, I would simply make sure that they don't drink too much. When they get older 16ish that responsibility becomes theirs.

As for most people saying that early drinking creates more responsible drinking behavior; I strongly disagree. The only way I see people drink responsibly is by either not liking alcohol or if they do (which is my case) by drinking too much a few times. How else would you know how much is too much without drinking too much at least once.

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Willravel

Who?

Cynthetiq

I would guess you. But then again, I do wonder why this doesn't fall under your "civil disobedience" discretion, since well, those are laws also.

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Willravel

I guess people missed post #46.
Civil disobedience isn't about breaking a law for selfish gain. I can't imagine someone having the stones to compare getting a beer after 6th period in high school with equal rights regardless of race.

Cynthetiq

No, people have "smoke ins" in parks as acts of civil disobedience to state their disapproval to the anti-marijuana laws. The cannibas clubs of the Bay Area also were doing this same kind of civil disobendience until the medical marijuana legalization allowed them more leeway.

Civil disobedience isn't just for equal rights.

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Willravel

No, but it's tolerated for certain things. Things like civil rights. Boozing it up under 21 isn't supported by reason, you see. How can I know that? Why statistics on teenage drunk driving, of course! And let's not have any of the poor arguments about how education would happen if it were legal. As we've seen in this very thread, there are plenty of parents who are willing and able to tutor their children regarding the dangers of drinking and driving, but the statistics remain the same, never the less.

girldetective

One reason to obey a law is because you and your community probably voted on it. That community may be neighborhood, city, county, state... It was probably voted in as a measure that was looked upon by the most people to bring the greatest good or least damage to the community as a whole. If that law isnt making sense any more or is no longer viable it could be changed through education, and sometimes it works to call attention to your cause through civil disobedience. If you think it would benefit your community to have more drunk kids around, get to your local government offices. Maybe you could hire these kids to obtain sigs for the measure and they could pony up a few $$ on their parent's next run to the liquor store.

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UKking

You know, you're absolutely right.
Something we seem to lack, so far, is data that CAN be correlated. Otherwise, we're just deciding from gut. So I'd have to rescind my stance till we can find out more about the trends that occur, and perhaps who your kids are.

Xerxys

OK, I don't drive on the left because first I'll cause an accident or something, because it's illegal never crossed my mind. Just like I wouldn't drive with a permit while the licensed co-driver is wasted, it's perfectly legal, the law only calls for one to have a co-driver, common sense dictates he/she be lucid.

You heard of the phrase, being at the right time doing the right thing at the right place? Well, the law was changed after slavery, never heard of Jim Crow but I bet his LAW's were changed. Slavery served a terrible purpose, a bad and inhuman means to an end, but now we know better, don't enslave!!

The bible's old testament says an eye for an eye, but in the new testament it says be forgiving, (I'm agnostic by the way) things change because we are a learning species, we have to obey the law, It's always right. It serves a purpose for the now, it also supplements growth. I am against some laws, but the law says, we can change these laws, huh, well what do you know, I believe that society is not a programming meant to control, but to supplement longevity of life, hence my deep faith in the >SYSTEM<!!!!!!!!

Wehtam

Underage drinking is the fault of the parent... or is it?

In my opinion - it is the fault of the parent for letting minors drink alcohol - but what if they are completely oblivious to it and the child does it to rebel/out of their own choice.

People regularly blame parents for not bringing up their kids properly and allowing them to drink but children will "rebel" as a chance to get back at their parents because they think that they are hard done by or as result of peer pressure.

On the other hand - if a kid isn't brought up to fully understand the risk of underage drinking and the effects it has on the liver, as well as having proper ground rules in place, then surely it is the responsibility of the parents?


Should get a few conflicts of opinion.

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Baraka_Guru

If the teenager is a minor, the parents are responsible. [In Ontario, you can be an adult (18) but under the legal drinking age (19).] I don't necessarily think the parents are to blame.

Even at most ages of teendom, people are making their own choices, regardless of parenting. Even kids of "perfect" parents I'm sure are engaging in this practice. However, the parents are ultimately responsible for their minor children and should do the best they can to prevent this.

Much of that is having instilled morals and an understanding of consequences of various activities. Other things include practical issues such as curfew, checking in, knowing where they are and who they're with.

Parents can only do so much, but they should do what is expected of them.

Teenagers can generally suck.

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