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Old 01-31-2008, 01:37 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crompsin
My not-a-genius point: Women can almost always make another kid. Other people will have unwanted kids even if said woman can't and that gives you a chance to adopt if you really want a brat of your own. Let us not populate the world with human mistakes, the product of bad judgment, when we have the technology to remedy the situation. Let's not encourage people to throw away their currently evolving life for one that hasn't even stared yet because they fear the Old 'n Holy Jesus-Fetus. It's for the Greater Good in the Hood.

Fetus: ITZ A MARACLE.

Or not.
Well, abortion is nothing new nor are we the only animal that does it.

I'm certainly pro-choice--but I don't agree that it's always the right decision and it certainly shouldn't be made lightly. Who's to say that every young mother will turn out to be a welfare statistic? My mom was 17 when she conceived my older brother with my father. We were never on welfare ... (but just to be fair my parents did divorce when my mom was 23 about 2 years after I was born; so statistically speaking we fit right in).

Again, I will reiterate, abortion may or may not be the right decision ... but it may not fit in with your plan since your daughter is the one who will really have to make the decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JinnKai
We are talking about hypothetical situations here, so it makes two things evident; (1) you can't really talk directly about what you'd do unless you already have a daughter this age, because your feelings toward your own spawn would certainly influence it and (2) you can't really know that this would ever happen. I'd love to believe that I would raise a child who was careful enough, and if not, as adamantly pro-choice that this wouldn't ever become an issue.

So in light of that, I stand by what I said. I can only address what I'd want to do, not what I will do. It's hypothetical.
QFT.

Also, I just realized that in my post to which you are replying I implied that 6-year-olds are not human ...

I want to state for the record that my 6-year-old is very much human; despite the way she acts sometimes.


Last edited by vanblah; 01-31-2008 at 01:52 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:53 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jewels443
Let's not do the choice battle here, okay? The point is that you can't say you're wiser because that would be your CHOICE. You're attempting to force your CHOICE down someone else's throat.
I can say I'm wiser because Jinn's choice was have an abortion or you are a dumb ass who ruined your life.

Thats simply not true.
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Old 01-31-2008, 01:57 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Hey, Ustwo, what would your answer be to the OP? I'm just honestly curious.
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:21 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
Hey, Ustwo, what would your answer be to the OP? I'm just honestly curious.
To dependent on other variables.

I've known idiots who knocked up their girlfriends (and I think they are idiots for it yes, BC isn't rocket science) but they have been together for 20 years now. It can work and if the situation was such I'd be ok with that. A lot would depend on the quality of the boy and his parents as well. If his parents were interested in working it out as well and he seemed to have a clue it would positivity influence that avenue.

If it was apparent a long term relationship would not work out for whatever reason, I'd recommend adoption.

I'd be in favor of abortion only for health, rape, or very unusual circumstances. Such as she is a genius (who couldn't figure out birth control somehow) and had a very limited window to do a once in a life time program. I suppose the same could be said if she were on an athletic scholarship. I'd not recommend it as a rule if she was getting the typical Mrs. degree though. I don't think 9 months of your life is that long.
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:23 PM   #45 (permalink)
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If everyone who agrees with abortion was aborted before they were born, then we'd never have to worry about an abortion topic as there wouldn't be anyone to defend the practice.

On topic, though, I can definitely say I'm wiser than anyone who would have an abortion. Why? 'Cuz I'm not foolish enough to get anyone pregnant if I can't handle the consequences.
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:35 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
If everyone who agrees with abortion was aborted before they were born, then we'd never have to worry about an abortion topic as there wouldn't be anyone to defend the practice.
Wrong. We have these things called "free will" and "education."

Or would you like to abort human choice, too?
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:42 PM   #47 (permalink)
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If I've said it once, I've said it a million times: Free will =/= Free reign to do as you please. Because you can doesn't mean you should.

And I'm all for human choice, just so long as we abort those who make, or agree with, the wrong one.

>_>
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Old 01-31-2008, 02:59 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
And I'm all for human choice, just so long as we abort those who make, or agree with, the wrong one.
Sorry for the threadjack here: but does this mean that you want to kill anyone who disagrees with you?
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Old 01-31-2008, 04:48 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
I can say I'm wiser because Jinn's choice was have an abortion or you are a dumb ass who ruined your life.

Thats simply not true.
You can but you won't? I don't get what you're saying. I've never complained about any decisions I've made, nor do you know what those were, so I know you're not talking about me here.

Quote:
I don't think 9 months of your life is that long.
I don't think nine months of your life is too long either. Who should decide what you do for the next nine months?

I realize you're sensationalizing selected responses. But the fact remains that most Pro-Choicers are just that. We're for abortion when it's the best choice. I stated my preference, but I would definitely be sure my child knew that carrying that baby for herself or for adoption were viable options.

You've never been a girl or a woman and never experienced the possibility of being in that position. Yes, you're a father but you've never been the mother of a teenage girl and been around multitudes of teen girls as an adult. You come across as lacking with the compassion and integrity it would take to support your daughter when she needs it most. (Although I somehow get the feeling that you're a big pile of mush around your kids. )

Hijack Shmyjack, I don't care. At least we know that you would make that decision on behalf of your daughter.

Remind me to tell you one day about my cousin's controlling father and the impact it had on her life.
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:00 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I'd support an abortion. Wouldn't make the kid go against her wishes though. If she chose to keep it I would support that choice and kick her out on her ass.
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:39 AM   #51 (permalink)
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First of all, I would hope that if she was mature enough to have sex that she would be mature enough to make the call on what to do about getting pregnant without needing my input.

That said, if she asked for my advice, I would discuss all of the available options. Tell that I would support whatever she decides. Then let her decide what to do for herself.

I won't list what the options are because every situation is different but it would include:

Abortion
Adoption
Keeping the baby
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:29 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghoastgirl1
Have you ever peed on a stick and watched it tell you theres something growing that's not supposed to be there at that particular time?
(Unprotected) sex invariably leads to pregnancy. In other words, that 'something' was growing exactly where it was supposed to be, as per nature.

Quote:
A child deserves better than that and I decided against having it. Plain and simple.
So instead you'll just kill it. That's terribly flawed logic.

Quote:
I believe this is a topic that needs to be moved into the Ladies Lounge. Insensitivity on this topic from certain male members is overwhelming and insulting to ladies such as myself and those who have been in similar situations.
I'd just like to point out that it has nothing to do with insensitivity nor does it have anything to do with being male. One doesn't need to be female or have had an abortion in the past to discuss abortion-- Otherwise, you'd have to discount the opinion of *every* male on this board and not just the ones you don't agree with.
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:36 AM   #53 (permalink)
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As a side note, I'd like to know how everyone's reactions would differ if their son came home and said he got a girl pregnant.
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Old 02-01-2008, 07:41 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerJoe
As a side note, I'd like to know how everyone's reactions would differ if their son came home and said he got a girl pregnant.
Pretty much the same way. I don't have a son ... but my reaction would depend upon the kind of person he is.

I can say without a shadow of a doubt that I would NEVER "kick out" a child of mine for something like this and I find it incredibly disturbing that anyone WOULD kick out their own children. Unless a teenager is physically abusive I don't really understand how you could.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantus
I'd support an abortion. Wouldn't make the kid go against her wishes though. If she chose to keep it I would support that choice and kick her out on her ass.
What a great way to show support.

Last edited by vanblah; 02-01-2008 at 07:42 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 02-01-2008, 08:01 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by vanblah
What a great way to show support.
My bad...forgot this forum was serious business
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Old 02-01-2008, 08:04 AM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerJoe
As a side note, I'd like to know how everyone's reactions would differ if their son came home and said he got a girl pregnant.
Mine would be the same. Flush-the-fetus! Whether or not the girl's parents agree? Who knows?

If I have kids... I'm buying them condoms for their 15th birthday.

I sure they'll already have some experience with them by then anyhow.
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Old 02-01-2008, 08:25 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantus
My bad...forgot this forum was serious business
If it was a joke, I apologize for my reaction. This wasn't in the humor forum and sarcasm doesn't come through very well in writing. It's sometimes very hard for people to guess (or second-guess) the intent behind written words since we rely so much on body language in everyday speaking.
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Old 02-01-2008, 12:30 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
So instead you'll just kill it. That's terribly flawed logic.
You mean it's not your logic.

Quote:
I'd just like to point out that it has nothing to do with insensitivity nor does it have anything to do with being male. One doesn't need to be female or have had an abortion in the past to discuss abortion-- Otherwise, you'd have to discount the opinion of *every* male on this board and not just the ones you don't agree with.
It has everything to do with insensitivity. How can you care more about what happens to a fertilized ova more than for a woman, a living, breathing, thinking, albeit flawed human being?

And I don't believe *every* male on this board shares your lack of sensitivity.
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Old 02-01-2008, 01:14 PM   #59 (permalink)
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I would make sure my son or daughter made a decision that he/she could live with. I believe there is no worse and cruel judge than one's self. I would help in any way, but the choice and consequences will ultimately weight upon him/her.

If it was my son, I would make sure he fulfills his duty to provide for and help with the girl he got pregnant, whatever choice they decide. If my daughter told me she was pregnant, I would damn straight make sure the guy that got her pregnant did all he can to help her and provide for her with her decision. Legally of course, regardless of my frustration at the situation.
An ex girlfriend and I once mused about what our kids would be like. This ultimately lead to the topic of pregnancy and abortion. She told me something that weighed heavily on me. "If I got pregnant, I would have an abortion. I would never tell you." I realized how much such knowledge would in deed weigh upon me. I would not be able to live with myself. That's why I'd make sure they can accept the consequences of their actions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jewels443
How can you care more about what happens to a fertilized ova more than for a woman, a living, breathing, thinking, albeit flawed human being?
We all came from there, didn't we? We all ended here, didn't we? I am not going to argue abortion. I've already explained my sentiments on it, and those sentiments are not shared universally. Sometimes it is the only option. I just can't believe it would be an option faced by my self and my SO.
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:08 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghoastgirl1
It's terribly insensitive. I don't agree with half the things you say on the board but I won't allow you to try to call my logic flawed on this particular subject because you deem yourself high and mighty because you have never gotten someone pregnant.
People only get upset over things they perceive to be true. Obviously you, at some level, don't believe what you typed out otherwise you wouldn't be up in arms over what I said. Contrary to what my signature says, I don't deem myself superior to anyone, but I do like to believe that I'm better equipped to make informed decisions and accept the consequences of those actions than certain people are.

Quote:
Discussing abortion is a sensitive topic that you have chosen to handle in a less than gentle manner. I resent your views of me just "killing it because that was my flawed logic."
*Points above*

If you want flowery, sugar-coated words then you're definitely barking up the wrong tree.

Quote:
I also resent your immaturity toward this topic.

I have nothing to prove to you. Think your immature thoughts and be on your merry way. I'm sure you'll respond in a less than tasteful manner proving that you're somehow right.
Okay... So let me get this straight. You're the one who became pregnant at 16 and ran off and got an abortion without notifying your parents because you "didn't want it" yet *I'm* the immature one? Mmmkay.

Notice I never once actually called you immature, but since you want to play that little game... Yes, I'm calling you-- And anyone else who resorts to having an abortion-- As immature. As many times as I say this, people either ignore it or try to make it much more complicated than it actually is; Either you have sex, accept the consequences of those actions and (wo-)man up and take care of any child produced as a result of those actions (Rape nonwithstanding, of course) OR you keep your pants on/stick strictly to self-indulgence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jewels443
It has everything to do with insensitivity. How can you care more about what happens to a fertilized ova more than for a woman, a living, breathing, thinking, albeit flawed human being?
Because the overwhelming majority of abortions aren't done for the well-being of the female, but for matters of convenience or because it would "ruin her life" (Hah! I wish, as a guy, I could get away with the "It would ruin my life" excuse). That's why.

Quote:
And I don't believe *every* male on this board shares your lack of sensitivity.
Okay... Lemme' try this again. To discredit the opinions of someone based on the fact that they're 1.) Not a female and 2.) Never had an abortion would mean that you would have to discredit the opinion of *every* male and *every* female who hasn't had an abortion. Either you accept the opinions of everyone-- Not just those whom you agree with-- Or you accept none. You can't pick and choose >_>

Oh, and because I don't try to rationalize/excuse destructive behavior doesn't make me 'insensitive'.
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:45 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Infinite_Loser, you're completely wrong because I don't agree with you.

That statement makes about as much sense as pretty much every post you've made in this thread. You have an opinion: congratulations. Don't try to force your opinion on others who have their own opinions.
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:52 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Notice the only time I said someone was 'wrong' was in jest (Post #48).

Oh, and about the whole opinion thing... *Points to the bottom of post #63*
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:57 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Notice the only time I said someone was 'wrong' was in jest (Post #48).
Saying that somebody's logic is flawed (as compared to yours, I assume) is a form of saying that they're wrong the way I see it. You might be able to prove false logic if the topic wasn't so subjective.
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:57 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Old 02-01-2008, 02:59 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Well, my mom actually wanted me, so that would explain my presence in this realm you call reality.
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:19 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Okay, I accept in advance the quality and quantity of flaming I will likely be enciting against mysef; but . . . my daughter is 22, graduated from college, and a manager at her work. Even with all that, she knows I will likely disown her if she gets pregnant. Not that I'm against sex, I'm not and I know she has gone through some very "slutty" times in her brief "career", as did I. However I am 100% planned, yes PLANNED parenthood. As I tell her, she doesn't yet have a job she likes, or friends that she respects; she doesn't know if she wants to stay put in this town or leave to somewhere very different. It would be entirely unfair to both her and any child for her to have one at this time. Carelessness is what I'm against. Children should be valuable enough to be considered BEFORE the choice to be pregnant/parent, not valuable by default because of carelessness.

Therefore if my daughter gets pregnant before she is happy with herself and her life, I would let it be her decision, but if she didn't have an abortion, our relationship end completely. Then of course, I have to evaluate the "party line" vs reality. Reality, I would disown her till she had no longer an option to abortion, that way I couldn't harp on her everyday. Then I would listen to see if she fully grasped the responsibility she was taking on and truly wanted it. If so, I'd un-disown her; if I didn't think so, I'd have to walk away, I can't see parents that don't take the raising of their children totally seriously.

BTW my son has the same threat over his head for getting a girl pregnant before she primarily, and he secondarily know themselves and are generally happy with their lives.

correction= *if he gets a girl pregnant. (for getting sounds like he has gotten a girl pregnant and he hasn't)
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Old 02-01-2008, 03:47 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nole of 4UrMe
Okay, I accept in advance the quality and quantity of flaming I will likely be enciting against mysef; but . . . my daughter is 22, graduated from college, and a manager at her work. Even with all that, she knows I will likely disown her if she gets pregnant.
Just how adult do your children have to be before you would not disown her for not getting an abortion?

Your post is perhaps the most disturbing one I've read and my gut reaction is no mother could be so controlling and disturbing.

I do love how it would be unfair to the child.....more unfair than abortion?

Please.

TFP has a lot of dysfunctional family people, and dysfunctional people in general. Any of you wish you were aborted to be fair to you?

Give me a break on this sophistry. Its nothing to do with fairness to the child, its convenience to the mother, or in this case apparently the grandmother.
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:31 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
Give me a break on this sophistry. Its nothing to do with fairness to the child, its convenience to the mother, or in this case apparently the grandmother.
QFT (And, yes, that's a factually correct statement supported by mountains upon mountains of physical evidence).
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Old 02-01-2008, 04:36 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ustwo
Just how adult do your children have to be before you would not disown her for not getting an abortion?

Your post is perhaps the most disturbing one I've read and my gut reaction is no mother could be so controlling and disturbing.

I do love how it would be unfair to the child.....more unfair than abortion?

Please.

TFP has a lot of dysfunctional family people, and dysfunctional people in general. Any of you wish you were aborted to be fair to you?

Give me a break on this sophistry. Its nothing to do with fairness to the child, its convenience to the mother, or in this case apparently the grandmother.
It has nothing to do with age. It has to do with (in case you missed it) Planned parenthood. It has to do with her having a child because she wants to not because she thinks it will enhance a bad life or worse yet a bad relationship. It has to do with her knowing herself and giving herself time to enjoy her adult life, because once that child is born, she won't have her life if she is being a proper parent till the child is well past 10 years old. It has to do with truly valuing child/children and the parenting that goes with it.

As for the fairness of abortion, not a day goes by that I don't wish my parents had aborted me as my grandmother thought they should have. Nothing to do with me as I wasn't me yet. It had to do with my parents still wanting so much more for themselves that my grandmother feared the kids would be neglected as "mom" was only having kids to try to keep "dad," and she was also determined that she would not be a "mother" because she (my mother) believed that "mothers" were stupid. She never intended on caring for us in the least. And "dad" hated children, never wanted any, only stayed because back then that's what was done. He beat us regularly in the same styles as the recently found little girl's body, Riddley, in Texas. Since my brother is a junkie, well, you make the call. I believe and have experienced things worse than death and so has he.
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Old 02-01-2008, 05:45 PM   #70 (permalink)
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The laws of nature don't take into consideration social mores.

Speaking of responsibility before sex is a worthless argument because we're biologically wired to have sex once we reach sexual maturity.

Sure, we can rationalize away some of that biology, but it still remains that we seek sex instinctively. We all love to prosthelytize in manners that suggest we're far more mature than that, but to say we were mature enough when we were 18, 19, or 20 to turn down sex because there was the slightest chance of pregnancy is ludicrous. If you were or are that mature, congratulations, now use your vast wisdom for good instead of finger-wagging.

And now for moderator-mode:

You all know the rules and you all love to be right, but if you can't take your hostility and personal attacks out of your posts, then we will remove your ability to post in this thread.
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Old 02-01-2008, 05:56 PM   #71 (permalink)
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How can you attack someone on what their personal response would be to something.



"I really like this cheeseburger."

"No you don't motherfucker. You like ham sandwiches."
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Old 02-01-2008, 07:19 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Im rather torn on the issue. But one thing that I know without a doubt, is that I would want my daughter to finish school, baby or not. Graduating from high school is non-negotiable. It is far too important for her well being and chance at life for me to kick her out and make it impossible for her to go to school.

Obviously, I would support her decision to do what she thinks is best. If she wants to keep the baby, I would help her with daycare until she graduates. Besides, itd be a grandbaby, Id want to watch the baby a lot anyway.

There would be terms set up though, that they have to move out a year after she completes high school. This would give her time to find an apartment/house to rent, get a job, and secure financial aid to help pay for daycare. I would also try to show her the options of going to a community college part time so that she can still get an associates degree or be working towards it. Young mothers, especially single, have their way to school completely paid by the Pell Grant.

Overall, it would be very tough, but I wouldnt just drop my daughter and let her flounder around, especially not with a baby involved.
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Old 02-01-2008, 07:20 PM   #73 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by World's King
How can you attack someone on what their personal response would be to something.

"I really like this cheeseburger."

"No you don't motherfucker. You like ham sandwiches."
To be fair, you do love ham sawwiches. And stuffed olives.
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Old 02-01-2008, 08:37 PM   #74 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpinJesus
The laws of nature don't take into consideration social mores.

Speaking of responsibility before sex is a worthless argument because we're biologically wired to have sex once we reach sexual maturity.

Sure, we can rationalize away some of that biology, but it still remains that we seek sex instinctively. We all love to prosthelytize in manners that suggest we're far more mature than that, but to say we were mature enough when we were 18, 19, or 20 to turn down sex because there was the slightest chance of pregnancy is ludicrous. If you were or are that mature, congratulations, now use your vast wisdom for good instead of finger-wagging.
Just to clarify, in no way have I ever expected or asked my daughter (or son) not to have sex. My daughter chose to wait till after she was 18 and from the time she was 15 till 18, I was worrying her regualarly because she was seemingly growing up chill to the point of frigid. Fortunately her libido kicked in at 18 (she was menstruating since 9 so it was a long wait for her) anyway, then she went sex crazy. I think that was/is just grand.

I am against her getting pregnant, not against her having sex. Educated women can generally utilize some method to avoid pregnancy. Generally these methods work.
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Old 02-02-2008, 11:17 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by World's King
How can you attack someone on what their personal response would be to something.



"I really like this cheeseburger."

"No you don't motherfucker. You like ham sandwiches."

WK - this may be the funniest and most insightful thing you've ever posted on this board. And that's really saying something.
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Old 04-01-2010, 02:04 PM   #76 (permalink)
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I have no children, but hypothetically, she'd either have to give it up for adoption or, depending on how far along she was, there'd be an appointment made at the local clinic. Unless there's some extreme measure like this is her high school sweetheart and they're going to be together forever, it's not happening in my household (hypothetically).
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Old 04-01-2010, 02:26 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Wow, zombie unexpected/unnecessary fetus thread.
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Old 04-01-2010, 10:03 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Old 04-02-2010, 04:48 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Yeah I'm not sure about the need for a resurrection here, but whatever. This seems like one of those threads that needed to stay dead.

I have an opinion, but I'll write it later. Or not at all looking that the old posts in this thread.
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Old 04-02-2010, 03:37 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ghoastgirl1 View Post
You have no right to tell women what they should do in such a situation as you will NEVER be in such a situation.
Oddly enough, this was the only thing I was offended by in this entire abortion of a thread.

(I see what I did there. )

You seem like a smart girl, so I'm assuming you were just being a little too strong with your wording... you don't truly think someone must be a woman to have a response to this situation, or gay to have an opinion about gay rights, or blah blah blah, right?

Man, I feel dirty quoting something from years ago.
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