Willravel

Recently, we've had some issues with drug dealers and dice throwers around my work building. As the resident "solution to everything guy", I was put in charge of dealing with the problem.

Not 20 minutes ago, we had a group of maybe 10-12 young people throwing dice in front of my business with large wads of cash in hand. My response was to simply walk out there, give them a friendly look and most left. One decided to be confrontational as he said something under his breath and didn't leave. I turned towards him, gave him a respectful smile and made strong eye contact. He gave me a few weak profanities and caught up to the group, which had simply moved down the block a building.

I'm trying to decide what the best course of action would be with this type of situation. Obviously, if they're dealing drugs the prudent response is to call the police, especially considering that they're not just selling bud anymore, and have graduated to crack. With the people who are just essentially loitering, I think calling the cops would not only be overkill, but it would invite a response. Judging by the confrontational nature of the alpha-person, I get the impression it could invite vandalism (as we've had in the past) or worse: violence. I'd rather have a situation where we can part ways amicably. Instead of inviting escalation, I want to present a situation where they leave feeling comfortable. My first thought went to positive reinforcement, but that's difficult without seeming condescending. Offering to buy them all lunch was the first thing that came into my mind, as there's a McDonald's right across the street.

Anyone have any ideas? I'll call the cops if necessary, but I like being able to solve these thins myself.

snowy

Ask the police to just cruise by and increase their presence in your area.

It works wonders.

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liquidlight

I don't suppose that "dump them in the river for the betterment of society" is a plausible option? (yes I'm kidding, kinda)

My inclination would be to come up with a possible change of venue for them, but it seems that they're drifting to begin with so I'm not so sure how well that would work out for you.

Secondary to that, is putting them to work an option? Or maybe even just a couple of them? A decent job, if it's available, might engender some loyalty that could help dissuade any negative reaction.

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Cynthetiq

Buy them lunch so that they can vadalize your place on a full stomach.

I'd go with letting the police know that people are loitering in the vicinity of your building.

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jorgelito

Will, it sounds like you are handling it well so far and with prudence.

Calling the cops would be good because at least you can get documentation and start a paper trail. If you can, start a neighbor hood watch (in pairs at least) to continue monitoring and continue a paper trail. If you document the comings and goings, you will at least have something to use to give the police or court if it came down to it. Also notifying the police is good to show that you are doing everything by the book.

I like your approach of firm but polite (friendly). I too, would be concerned about inviting backlash. Continue the "killing with kindness approach" and stay firm.

Another option is to install cameras to reinforce your neighborhood watch.

All these things taken together can be quite effective I think.

Presence is effective. The more neighbors that gather outdoors together, he more of a presence you will build and the unwelcome guests will leave naturally.

I don't think you should buy them lunch, that would be overkill.

What about hiring a security guard?

Good luck!

Willravel

That has been a common discussion with the other business owners on our block, as the crack problem must be stopped before a sizable consumer base is allowed to grow. There's no love loss with the drug dealers. It's the loiterers that I'm not sure about.
You wouldn't be the first to recommend that.
Very few places want illegal gambling. It'd be a lot easier if they just wanted to shoot hoops or something.
I'm trying to get access to our funds available for intern positions, but there is a lot of red tape, and I have a strong suspicion I met people with priors this morning. That's a very good idea, though. I'll explore that further.
I don't think that they'd really be looking for retribution after an act of random kindness.
That doesn't really solve anything. We've had the police drive by. They disperse, then come right back. It's a bluff long since called.

Jorg always has a kind word. Thanks!
A neighborhood watch is an excellent idea. I'd be a lot more comfortable if we could have groups of ten, though. I suppose police notification is starting to look like a must in this situation.
I also considered joining in the game, losing on purpose, and then letting them know that this isn't the appropriate place for that sort of things with a rapport already built.
We installed the fake cameras (don't tell anyone!) and we put up gates which keep them out of the parking lot and courtyard.
A security guard would be complicated. We cater to a lot of low income and even homeless people here, and the last thing we want to do is scare off the people we're here to help.

Thanks for the ideas!

Sultana

1) I think it's waaaay better on several levels to employ people who are, I dunno, actually looking and applying for jobs.

2) Sorry, but pullleasse! I suspect they'll think you're an especially soft target. Unless you put glass in the food.

3) See #2.

4) I'd think that a band of shiftless, gambling loiterers camped on the doorstep are much more likely to scare away people of any income level than a security guard.

I vote for hiring a security guard.

Stuff like this is the first step. It's like when windows are broken in an empty house and not fixed--it leads to more and much more. Better to take care of things decisively right off the bat, rather than waiting for it to escalate.

I've also learned that from my divorce in progress, heh.

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Jinn

Fake cameras, with really big red lights.

Seriously. Cameras scare the shit out of criminals, especially very visible ones.

Fake cameras are cheap (really cheap), but if you can afford it, get real cameras.

I sure as hell wouldn't do a drug deal in front of cameras I thought were real; nor would I vandalize.

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Willravel

I've already got fake cameras.

Alright, I've contacted the police and the SJ Downtown Association.

IT2002

The internship is a bad idea. If they are selling crack, you can't match what they earn. Invite a military recruiter to talk to them.

I don't know if it is possible, but dogs scare criminals more than cameras do. Believe it or not, criminals can spot fake cameras. That or the criminals are too stupid to notice them. Obviously, they aren't working. And your money would be better spent buying the police lunch rather than the punks.

Another thing to do is shake them down. Get someone to flash a fake badge and take their money and crack. (Sounds good in theory, don't really try this or things would escalate to violence quickly)

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ziadel

You're awfully ballsy for someone without a peice Will.




Other than calling the cops, I dont know what you could do....if they're already engaging in illegal activities publicly, whats to stop them from beating you to a pulp. Seriously. Once you start with the police game I wouldnt linger around them too long, they're bound to figure it was you and then its on.

theres no good answer to this question.

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Willravel

Lol...I'm not afraid of them. I don't invite violence, but I'm not likely to back down. I've had my ass kicked before. If they want to invite assault charges instead of just loitering, that's their decision.
Seems fair.

ziadel

Mebbe its time for your organization to have its very own Rent-A-Cop. Or, if your company is Leasing its office space, get the building owners involved.
edit: Rent-a-cops come in many flavors, you can request that they make changes to their attire for the sake of your clientelle, or however you spell it.

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Willravel

It's a good idea, but we try to have as small an overhead as possible when it comes to delivering everything to the people who need help. Creating a position, even near minimum wage, would not only be complicated, but it would take away from the services we give to those in need.

If I give you $5, can you come by with a shotgun and scare them?

ziadel

This makes some more sense now, they're outside of your business because they (and I'm just guessing here) are not readily distinguishable from your clients. Sound about right, mebbe?

Honestly dude, I'd scare the bejeesus out of them for free, but CA being what it is, they'd haul my ass in

My buddy is a social worker in RI, he mentioned a similar problem, I'll pump him for some info.

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Willravel

That would make sense, but these people are wearing pretty expensive Sean John and Ecko clothing. They have access to money (albeit money that may be from illicit activities, I couldn't say). My concern is 1) not inviting a negative response because they'll know who called the cops and 2) not simply giving up on the situation. I like solving these kinds of things on my own and only being dependent on the police when absolutely necessary. Maybe I read too many Spider-man comics when I was younger. I dunno.
Yeah, sorry about that. The people who vote here don't like guns. It's nothing personal, I can assure you.
Awesome. Thanks!

Adri

That's my suggestion, as well. If you do not own the building, then the people who are ultimately responsible for keeping it safe are the building owners. You could notify them of the problem and let them handle it however they wish (including hiring a security guard, installing real cameras, etc). That's technically the owner's responsibility, not yours. Even though you're the one who's there every day and will actually have to deal with them.

And if the owner chooses to call the cops on them and the ruffians say something to you about it, you can always play dumb and be like, "dude, it wasn't me! The owner called the cops!"

Willravel

We are the owners.

Adri

Well, in that case... I doubt the ruffians know that.

It's always my MO to blame someone "above" me when I have to give the bad news to anyone. "It's not me, it's them. My hands are tied by policy." etc. I know that it's dishonest (to a degree, usually it's true to at least some extent), but it keeps relations smooth and it's a white lie.

Willravel

The only person really above me is the President (of the company, not the US).

I don't want to sidestep. I'm fine walking right up to them and saying "Get lost." (because I'm in a 1970s PSA), it's just that I don't want to come back the next day to find broken windows. I'll get pissed, turn vigilante, and they'll all end up in a Mexican prison before they know what hit them. No one wants that.

IT2002

You could also get your alderman involved. If they don't get involved, you can call them out in the media via op-eds in the local paper. The alderman can probably get more action out of the police than you can.

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ziadel

I've got it. We import rednecks from the wilds of Montana.

Nothing is scarier than a guy wearing jeans, red suspenders, and a John Deere hat

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Plan9

(goes into booth, votes for FLAMETHROWER)

... what?

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powerclown

To be honest, and knowing your pacifistic nature and worship of Gandhi, you don't sound too convincing. You're no James Bond or Charles Bronson, and these aren't Dr. No's fold-away thugs, so leave these things to the professionals: let the cops handle this one. Go ahead and bring them a few happy meals to tide them over if you must, but I would stop with the "strong eye contact" and "friendly looks". That kind of provocation with the criminal element will get you a one-way ticket to the nearest intensive care unit, best case scenario.

Willravel

That's probably because I was being sarcastic. Or do you actually think that these people would surface after a few days in a Mexican prison?
You're right, I'm not James Bond or Charles Brosnan. I don't use a gun, and I have many years of fight training. I doubt Charles ever took Krav Maga. Still, I'd only use them if attacked, and I'd only stop them. I'd never attack, and I wouldn't really hurt them unless it was necessary.
That's just the thing, though. It's not provocation. It's simple, respectful, non-verbal communication for "clear out". If all it's going to take is a look, then the only real way to avoid confrontation is to sit in my office hoping the PD can actually do something besides asking them to disperse.

filtherton

Boiling oil?

Willravel

FINALLY SOME IDEAS.

Now all I need is a cauldron.

powerclown

1 rusty .38 bullet > lifetime of Krav Maga study
Is boiling oil effective as a crowd dispersant?

filtherton

It's great if a bunch of motherfuckers are storming your castle.

powerclown

Excellent. I like the idea of exposing the criminal element to waves of third degree searing hellfire.
I've found quite a few nice ones on google.

ziadel

I asked my buddy, he did'nt have anything serious to add.

But he did suggest supplying some homeless people with meth and nightsticks. Street justice is a bitch.

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Willravel

You missed the point. A better comparison to me would have been someone who doesn't use guns. I never suggested nor do I think that I could punch faster than a trigger could be pulled. Believe it or not, this isn't a pissing contest. If it were, I would have attacked the alpha before he could draw his weapon and broken his collar bones. See? Pissing contests are overt.


ziadel: ROFL...street justice.

Dilbert1234567

stink bombs? razor wire? paint it bright pink? some fake blood on the sidewalk and some spent shells?


I'm a tad early but i want to head it all off... happy birthday will!

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Willravel

Lol, thanks Dil.

Dilbert1234567

it just came to me right now... fake dog shit.

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Willravel

Inexpensive, funny, effective. Maybe a cauldron of fake dog poop.

Dilbert1234567

or, maybe, leave some fake stuff there for a few day's until they get use to it pick it up and throw it, then, one day switch to the real stuff

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analog

Four words:

Really. Loud. Polka. Music.

IT2002

Brilliant!!! Just make sure that they can't disable the speaker and it won't violate any noise ordinances. I suggest the gayest musical you can find.

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powerclown

OK, there's your heavy guns right there.
Show no mercy!