braisler

Ok, this is a warning! This is going to be a long post. Very long. I felt the need to write everything out so that you, my distant and various friends, could understand the larger part of what has been going on in my life. If you take the time to read through it, I would really appreciate it. I am feeling really low right now and could really use some help.

I have found the members of the TFP to be an openminded, caring, and philosophical bunch. I am hoping that some of you has some insight into what I might do next. Or at least can offer a shoulder to lean on during this time. I could really use one.

Seven weeks ago, February 3. That was the date that started it all. We had been talking about starting a family, talking about starting to stop trying not to have a pregnancy. It was something that we had been debating ever since the beginning of our marriage. When we were first married, we knew that we didn't want a family right away. We had a long-distance courtship and we knew that we both wanted to have a good bit of time just being married and being together before we took the step to start a family. We talked about it a bit and agreed on a time of about three years before we started having kids. So, we waited. School, work, moves, jobs, everything else that happened pushed three years to five, five years to seven. Maybe push is the wrong word, maybe it was 'eased'. 3 years eased into 5, 5 into 7. We weren't in a rush to start a family. We were enjoying where we were together. We had the financial and physical freedom to travel when we wanted to, and not worry with kids etc. Just lately we had both started to feel that maybe the time was getting to the right place to start a family. Did we both want kids? The answer we came to was yes. And we both knew that the timing wouldn't probably get any better. Biologically, financially, emotionally (I thought) we were as ready as you ever really can be. So we talked about stopping trying not to have kids.

Then that night: We were close, we both felt good and knew where things were heading. When the time came, I asked, "Protection or not?" We both knew that she was right about in the middle of her cycle, the most likely time to be fertile. She said, "Without", and welcomed me inside. I think that both of us felt a little more of the gravity of what we were doing. Not just making love, but maybe making life. And it felt good. At least to me, it felt good. Like there was something more potent, or more important, deeper going on.

The few days that followed, she became somewhat sulky. She withdrew from me, from the relationship. Several days into that, I asked what was wrong. She said, "Nothing, I'm fine." in that way that I know means that nothing is fine. I pushed a little more needing to know what she was feeling and going through. "I don't know if I want to be with you." That's not it exactly, but the message is accurate. She isn't 'in love' with me. She says that she wants to be, but that she hasn't felt that 'in love' feeling in a really long time, maybe she never felt it. I'm floored. I try to draw out of her why she is feeling like this. She says that the sex for starting a family really started her thinking about whether I was the right man for her. She has been frustrated in the marriage for years, feeling like she is not an equal partner, like I treat her like a sidekick. Our communication styles are different. Our 'fuses' are wired differently, how we handle crisis, or perceived crisis, is not the same. She doesn't want to be the buffer between me and the outside world, or between me and our kids.

Now I can acknowledge that we have different communication styles. I want to talk things out. She wants to withdraw from the situation, work things out for herself, and come back to discuss it when she is in a better place. I recognize that both styles can work, but we have a really hard time working something out between the two styles. Here is how things usually get resolved: We have a disagreement. I get upset and try to talk things out, explain my position, etc. She initially tries to talk with me, but this is contrary to her style. Sooner or later, she walks/runs/slams off and the conversation is over. Time passes. I guess she may be thinking things through. I stew. I worry. I don't get anywhere. More time passes. Sometimes hours, sometimes days. She comes back and for her, internally, the conflict is resolved. But, and here is the key thing for me, we don't talk it out then either. By this time, I am so happy to just have her back, and happy, that I forget about talking out my frustrations or discussing the issue to resolution. Or moreover, sometimes, I want to talk things out, but I don't want to bring something up that is just going to drive her away for hours or days of seclusion. So, things get put away and we move on... until the same issue or another like it comes up again.

So, after this revelation, this "I'm not sure you are the right man for me", everything shuts down. She is done talking with me. Her communication style again. She wants to think things out. Ok, but this is a BIG thing. Not an argument over who was supposed to take care of the vacuuming. This is our marriage, our life together. I am worried. A day goes by. I ask her how she is doing. She doesn't want to talk about it. Another day. Same thing. Another. Another. Another. A week or more go by. Now I'm getting more and more worried. Over the next few weeks, yes weeks, I draw out of her that she is dealing with all of the same issues that have come up before. The different communication styles, the way she feels like she doesn't have 'ownership' of the marriage or feel like a real partner. She feels like we have next to nothing in common, that we are just such different people, living together in friendship, but lacking a real connection. She says that every time I ask her what is going on, it pushes her further away from being able to talk about it. I try to give her more time. I want to shout, cry, rage, scream. I wait. I ask again. Same frustrations. I want to talk about it, she doesn't... for days and days and then a week. And 2-3 weeks later, she is late for her period. We wait another week, buy the test, and find out that we are pregnant.

Through all of this, and really before any of this came up, she has this friend, Ken. She met him online playing a game, and really felt like they connected. We have had an agreement between us, that we can each flirt and even chat sexually with other people online as long as we are open and up front about it. So, we both have the freedom to explore our sexuality and chat and flirt as long as we are honest with each other about it. We established this idea when both of us were feeling like our relationship was strong, healthy, and we were completely confident in each other. She has been doing some of this same with this new friend Ken. But it has gone beyond flirtation, she has formed a partner-bond with Ken. And feels like he is really like a soul-mate for her. She has shared some of this with me. At first, I was offended. "I thought I was your soul-mate?" She replies, "Oh, you are. You are my #1, my partner, my husband. Ken is a really, really close friend, someone I really connect with. And I really need that right now." So, ok. Fine. I am glad that she has someone she can connect with. We both have had a hard time finding any friends after our move here to Kentucky. She has a few girl friends that she occasionally has dinner with or chats with, but no one she feels close with. I have no one at all. No one but her. So, I'm happy for her. But as their relationship evolves, it begins to take more and more of her time and emotional energy. She assures me that I am still number one, but also acknowledges that Ken is so important to her that she has neglected our relationship in order to cultivate her relationship with Ken. I try to reason through this by thinking to myself that her friendship with Ken is so new and over the next few weeks things will settle down to where she doesn't need or want to spend so much time on that relationship. Looking back, I feel like a fool. As hard as it might have been, I should have slammed the door on that relationship right then. I honestly don't know what she would have done if I had 'forbidden' or even spoken out against her relationship with Ken. Part of me hates myself for not having the courage to stand up for what I know is right. Now, looking back, and now looking at the way things are, she was and is having an emotional affair with Ken. While there is physical distance between them, she spends 8-10 hours each day talking, chatting, playing the game and basically being with him. My time with her has been almost completely limited to the 'default' time that she pretty much has to spend with me. We wake together, we drive to work together, we drive home, sometimes watch some TV while eating dinner. Sometimes we go to bed together, sometimes I go to bed while she is up talking with Ken. I feel as though our positions are 180 degrees from where they should be. She confides in him, laughs with him, talks with him about everything and nothing, in all of those ways treats him like a husband might be treated. With me... she talks to me about logistical things, avoids the subject of how our relationship is doing, and basically treats me like a good friend who she wishes well. Along with this, sex has become pretty much non-existent. I think we have had sex 3, maybe 4, times since the conception. That's 8 weeks ago now. It has become clear to me that I am not #1. I really don't even feel like a close second.

We have talked through some of this. Slowly, erratically, not easily. She says that she wants our marriage to work, but in the same breath says that she's really worried that it won't. She says that she is ready to put 100% into making it work, but still acts just like she has before she was giving 100%. Somewhere in there, she has said that she has felt like we were compatible friends these last few years. Not to me. At least until after she said it. Then she started treating me 100% that way, like a decent friend who she happens to share a house with.

What 100% means?

When she says that she is going to give our marriage 100% effort, what does that mean to her? When I think of giving our relationship 100%, I think of working on communication, talking about where we are now, maybe doing 'relationship' exercises, reading books together or separately, reading articles online about relationships and marriage and how to make it stronger, better, etc. Maybe even think about professional therapy if we can't make any headway on our own. But that's what I think of. What does she think of? I don't know. There is no new communication. I don't see her reading any of the several books we have around the house. I don't get any feedback or input from her. Nothing of the sort, "Here's what I think is wrong, and here's how we might be able to go about fixing it." Maybe I am being too pragmatic. Maybe I am being too much of the 'man' by thinking that problems have solutions. I am frustrated each day that goes by that I read an article or a book about how to make marriage work... and can't do much to apply it, because we never talk about it. On one of the few times when I have drawn some information out of her, she says that she is looking at some things online about relationships too. I don't know. She doesn't usually talk about it. I am having to come to terms with the idea that our marriage is basically over.

We're Pregnant

Since the news that we are pregnant, she has gone through the spectrum of emotions about what it means and how she feels about it. Most of it has been positive and she is really excited about the whole process. She has really opened up to the idea of being a mother. She is very in touch with the baby growing inside of her and wants to take the best care that she can with her pregnancy. Through of of this, she has been clear that she needs my support more than ever; that she is putting the pregnancy above everything else. She wants me to be excited about the pregnancy too and doesn't think that I am involved enough or participating enough. I guess it doesn't fit with her that I am so in turmoil about our marriage that it is very difficult for me to sustain an excitement about the pregnancy. At times I feel like I am being asked to act as a kind of surrogate husband, nurturing her through the pregnancy, but not really being part of the future plans.

Side Kick

One of the issues that she keeps coming back to is the idea that she has felt like a side kick in our relationship for years now. I am a do-er. It is something that I accept about myself. Even something that I like about myself. I like to start, and finish projects. I enjoy fixing things. Sure, I can get overwhelmed sometimes, but usually I like to plan out a bunch of different things that need to be done and then set about getting them done. The past few years, I have been doing more and more and more around the house. I recall a time when we shared a little more of the household responsibilities. She used to like to paint and she was very good at it. When we had a project to do around the house, she would pick out the paint color and get to work getting that room painted. She was willing to do some things around the house, though there were always some tasks that she didn't mind as much and others that she didn't like to do. We tried dividing the tasks. We tried making lists of things that needed to be done. Over time, there was less and less that fell into that category of things she didn't mind doing. So, I picked up the slack. She did less, I did more. But somewhere along the way, she lost her interest in doing pretty much anything. She says that I only want things done the way that I want it done, and that I am critical of her when she does it her way. In the past, I admit that I have made comments about the way that I have been used to doing things versus the way that she is doing the same thing. I have always meant those comments to be helpful, but it must have been criticism to her. Now, I have stepped back, way back from commenting on how she does anything. Unfortunately, there isn't anything to comment on. Where she used to do some things, now she does less and less. With the pregnancy, she has been feeling tired for a few weeks. But recently, she has said that she is feeling more energy. While this might mean that she is feeling better about getting around and not feeling so wiped out, it hasn't translated into her picking up the house, or taking over some of the many tasks that I have been doing.

She has gone completely away from wanting to help with remodeling and home improvement projects. November a year ago, we moved into a huge house that was in need of major remodeling. In retrospect, this was a huge mistake. I should have realized that she was already withdrawing from wanting to do any of these projects. From wanting to help. Early on in our marriage, she thought it was neat that I knew how to do lots of things. She wanted to learn too, and was happy to have me show her the ropes by working on some projects with me. The problem arose because I am so used to working on things by myself that I found it difficult to have another person there working by my side that didn't see the project in the same terms as me. What I mean is, I know what steps things need to go in. If we are building a wall, I know that we are going to need lumber and nails and a hammer, a level, maybe a nail gun, a tape measure, and so on. I think of those things as such second nature that it is difficult for me to deal with them not being second nature to her. And because she doesn't know as much or just what to do next, she pretty much has to take the role of waiting for me to tell her what to do. Which automatically sets up the dynamic of me being in the lead, and her feeling like the side-kick. It isn't that I want her to just stand around waiting for instructions. I would much rather have her anticipating what comes next in the project and jumping on and doing the work. But she doesn't know what to do next or how to do it sometimes. So, no easy solutions there. Either I do the job by myself regardless if it would be helpful or easier to have another pair of hands there. Or she is left feeling like a side-kick under my lead. So, you guessed it, I do the job by myself. In recent memory, maybe up to a couple of years ago, I could still call out to her if I needed a hand and she could come hold the other side of the long board for me or whatever. But apparently this is now an issue as well. Since I am a do-er, I start projects all of the time. Most the things I start now, I have a good idea that I can do them by myself. But once in a while, I get into trouble. Something doesn't go the way it was supposed to. I'm elbow deep in mortar and I need another tile from the garage. Whatever. She has come to really resent my asking for her help. Her leisure time is very important to her (her words not mine), and when I ask for her help in the middle of a project, I am cutting into that time. Even if I just need something that will take literally 5 minutes of her time, that's too much. It has gotten so far gone now that I feel like, even if I am in a difficult situation, I don't call out for help. Even if I am potentially in harms way, say cutting a 4'x8' sheet of plywood unsupported on my table saw, I won't ask for her help. Now I can't tell her this, because she says that I am guilting her into doing something that she doesn't want to do.

Another situation in which I feel that I can't win. So, stop doing projects. Hire them out? Yeah, right. If I could find a competent, honest contractor, that might be an option. We have hired some work out over the past few months. Some of it was helpful. Other parts, I know I could have done a better job myself. And all of it cost a huge amount of money.

What wrong with this picture?

Through all of this mess, I keep asking myself what the hell is going on here. I mean, if you were to look at this arrangement from the outside, and asked which spouse do you think it disgruntled... I have to think it would be me. I do the greater majority of the cooking, cleaning, shopping, and general upkeep of the house. I work on home improvement projects, usually by myself, and usually to good result. She plays her computer game, watches TV, chats with Ken, leaves plates around the house, dumps her dishes in the sink. It feels a lot like our gender roles are reversed. Isn't it usually the typical lazy husband who has to be prodded off the couch to at least take out the trash? And she still gets indignant at the plight of women in our society, how they are constantly doing more and more while the men take the credit. It is enough to make me want to scream sometimes, "Is that your situation? NO. For us, I do everything that needs to be done. You do whatever you want to do or don't want to do." I have to feel like most women would be thrilled with a husband who did one quarter of what I do around the house. Not here. I get complaints that the projects I start are too much and too many because they have the occasional possibility of cutting into her free time if I end up needing her help. Is this the way it is supposed to be? The truth is that I do like doing projects. It is a creative outlet for me. And yes, I do like the outcome and maybe the praise from doing a job well. I always thought this was one of the ways that I express my love and affection in the marriage, by doing the things that need to be done, by making the house a more comfortable and well appointed place to live for both of us. She doesn't see it that way. In an ideal world, I would like for both of us to be partners in our marriage and in keeping our house. To make decisions together, to plan together, to do the things that need to be done either together as a team, or separately but equally sharing the responsibilities for getting things done.

My problem is that I love her. I keep trying to show her the way that I love her. Even now, when I truly feel that our marriage has broken down. I still go out and do the shopping, picking up things that she has said she wants, and things that I think she might like at the grocery store. I still do the projects around the house, though now without any indication of asking for either help or praise. I act the part of the pregnancy partner though I feel really conflicted about it. I read that some 40% of men who have a pregnant partner at least entertain the notion that the child is not theirs. The article suggests that the men are not so much questioning fidelity as questioning their own ability to participate in the creation of life. In my situation, I don't have any doubts that the baby is mine. Given the state of our marriage, I have doubts about my parental rights and what the future holds. She has said several times both before and after we found out about the pregnancy, that she wants to make this marriage work, but if it doesn't she has to be able to leave, to walk away. How I am supposed to feel in the face of that?

Who's the bad guy?

She has insisted that I am a martyr in this relationship. That I am making everything out to be her fault, that she constantly feels like she is the bad guy. I feel like I have readily admitted my problems as I see them. I have also opened myself to her input about what she thinks I could do to improve our relationship over all. The suggestions that she has shared, I have taken to heart. When she decries how she is being made to feel the bad guy in this relationship, part of me can't help but agree. She laments that she is the one holding things back, she is the one not doing anything around the house, she is the one not working on our relationship. Part of me wants to say back, "Yeah, that about covers it." But I feel that what she really wants is for me to say that so that I can be the bad guy for saying something so hurtful and malicious. Surely, it isn't ALL her fault, so by implying that it is, I am the bad guy. It is like she wants to struggle over who is more at fault, to dwell on the negative things that have happened in the past, the mistakes that either of us has made. When I suggest that we should restructure our relationship, redefine where we are and how we move forward, she immediately turns to, "Well, we have tried that before, and it didn't work then." Same goes for trying to redefine how we share housework, or how we deal with projects that need to be done. We've done it before, we've talked about it before, and it didn't help then, so why try now. It is a defeatism that you can't argue against.

So that's about all of it. Or at least all of it that I can put down right here, right now. If you made it this far... Thank You. Just writing out my thoughts and ideas clearly has helped me to work through them. If you have any questions or suggestions, please let me hear them.

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You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother.
- Albert Einstein
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highthief

Wow! On some levels it sounds so strange, yet we've all probably gone through this sort of thing during one relationship or another but in your case it appears terminal without A) both parties willing to get to work on the issues and B) without outside intervention (i.e., counselling).

There seem to be a whole slew of issues at play, and if you want it to work and want to raise the child together, you'll have to get some help.

I think it is impossible to sit here and say much beyond this: we are only reading it from your perspective, which means we only get 50% of the story and 50% of the emotions.

Good luck, don't delay in getting help.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

The_Jazz

As highthief said, I could give you a bunch of advise, but it would probaby be worthless. We don't have her side of the story. I think that you probably need to get a counselor involved that can listen to both sides and teach you to listen to each other. That seems to be the basic problem between the two of you now. We can all offer advice, but I doubt that any of it will be detailed enough to help you in any sort of conclusive way.

Good luck with everything, and I really hope that you keep us updated.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

braisler

We have talked about counseling. Or at least mentioned it, but she seems unwilling to go any further with it than that. I suspect that she is suffering from real depression right now. Her lack of motivation to do anything at all. Her weight gain (before the pregnancy). Her moodiness and withdrawl from contact. But her upbringing is very against therapy. It is just something that you don't do, a stigma or something.

I have asked her if she would consider talking to someone about it. I read that depression during pregnancy affects 10-20% of women, with those having a previous history of depression to be much more likely to suffer during pregnancy. I also read that pregnant mothers have lower birth weight and a higher risk of complications. I shared all of this with her, trying to draw the focus onto the baby, rather than onto what this is doing to our marriage and to me. Still nothing. She doesn't think she needs help.

So, that is a follow-up question... How do you get someone to consider getting help for depression when they won't admit the problem to themselves or seek out professional help? I can't drag her into the clinic.

__________________
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You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother.
- Albert Einstein
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Daniel_

Your story is my story, with two exceptions - we'd already had the baby but you've only just got pregnant; and my wife didn't tell me about the online friend until after she fucked him.

In our case, it ended well.

We got a divorce.

I say well, because the truth is that on reflection, I am so much better off out of that marriage, and so is my ex-wife.

The sad thing is that your wife has ALREADY chucked out your marriage with the trash; she just hasn't admitted it to you (or maybe even to herself).

She's told you she doesn't feel love for you, she's given up on sex, she's spending every waking hour in deep communion with another man.

I expect that it will not be long before she asks for some time to visit Ken in order to "expolre her feelings" or that she will tell you she needs time alone to think about stuff. Assuming that Ken lives close enough, she's almost certainly fucked him already, or at the very least had phone sex.

I know it hurts to think that, but chances are she allowed you to impregnate her because she was internally paying for her infidelity by doing the thing that only spouses ought to do - and that she found it didn't make her love you all over again.

Heavy duty counselling and removing her contact with Ken might give you a future, but I wouldn't bet my own money on the prospect.

Sorry, and good luck.

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Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
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braisler

Daniel, I hope that you are wrong. I know they haven't had any physical contact yet, and the online contact seems to be a bit less recently.. or she is hiding it from me better.

I am just struggling right now with our marriage being trashed and yet her expecting and wanting me to be super-excited about our baby. I don't know what to do. I'll keep you posted.

__________________
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You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother.
- Albert Einstein
---

Daniel_

The key thing is honest open communication and lots of it.

She's cheated in every respect but sx - and she's upset her husband in the process.

If she had been banging a co-worker, you'd hardly be praising her forbearance if she cut back to only blowjobs would you?

She's behaving in a loving way to him, and you are happy that she's cut back.

She is not being honest with you or herself.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

highthief

That I don't know. I think the best thing might be to see a counselor yourself, and seek advice there. The counselor may suggest ways to bring your wife into the sessions, or may simply help you deal with what is going on, if she won't join in.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

alicat

I was in a very similar situation about a year ago, only in reverse. Like you, my husband was not satisfied with the weight I was carrying in our marriage. He was right for the most part and I realized it and have since changed my behavior and am doing my best to maintain it. Our issue was a little like yours in that I am a housewife and I was not keeping a home like I should be while not working. Not a filthy pigsty, but things like not doing the dishes everyday when I had no excuse not to, for example.

However that isn't the similarity I meant. Like your wife, my husband let his dissatisfaction simmer for a year or more without ever letting me know the serious distress he was feeling. He'd make little comments here and there but nothing to clue me in to how bad he was feeling. Then one day he just cracked, crying almost incoherently that he couldn't live like this anymore, didn't feel appreciated, actually mentioned the D word. He left the house and later called me from somewhere in the car. This was so completely foreign to anything in our 17 yrs. together. Thankfully he came home, we worked on things and are now happy once again (very simplified). BUT...

Like your wife's silence, he came to realize, understand and apologized for how completely unfair it is for a spouse to bury such serious feelings of resentment without ever allowed the other the opportunity to correct the source of said resentment. For me we went from A straight to Z in a moment, when he'd been moving toward Z for a year. Thankfully for us we had an otherwise happy and loving 17 yr. union that he "didn't" want to lose, just fix and was gladly willing to fight for it.

In your marriage, sadly, I have to say I think your wife doesn't want to fix it and decided that long ago. The glaring thing for me is the refusal to seek counseling or even try to communicate and work things out at home. That and the fact that you are an "interruption" to her "leisure time" of 8-10 hrs. a day in a relationship, even virtual, with another man.

Having suffered clinical depression, I can say it usually makes one care for very little, not care very much for one person and not another. I'm sorry for you and your baby that will be born, but I don't think she wants your marriage any longer.

Ali

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'Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun, The frumious Bandersnatch!'--Jabberwocky, Lewis Carroll

"You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late."--Ralph Waldo Emerson

lurkette

Get thee to a counselor!

If she won't do it for herself, do it for the child. Children of mothers who suffer from depression are more likely to develop symptoms of mental health disorders themselves, as early as kindergarten! If she truly is depressed and doesn't get it treated, she's doing a world of harm to that child, on par with drinking or smoking during pregnancy.

She claims that she wants the marriage to work, but isn't acting like it. There are obviously some deeper issues than the ones that are being discussed on the surface. A counselor or therapist will allow you to identify those issues and address them, hopefully before things become even more complicated through the introduction of an infant.

Best of luck!

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

spindles

Let me throw in my few cents worth. If she is not willing to go directly to a counsellor, suggest going to a doctor (GP). There are other ways of getting past depression - not just counselling, though the GP should suggest that anyway.

My wife is also a 'quiet' one. I know she is pissed off about something because she goes all quiet/avoids talking to me. My point here is that you can't let her just run away from all of this. If she really does want this marriage to work, she needs to communicate.

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who hid my keyboard's PANIC button?

absorbentishe

Dude,

I'm very sorry that you are going through this. My wife and I had issues, but none like these. It took a lot on both ends to get to a happy medium. It appears on the surface that she doesn't want to work very hard. You have done a lot to keep things together, but it only goes so far if it's a one way street.

If counseling is out of the question, and she won't go see a doctor, then retain a lawyer. That doesn't mean a divorce is in the works, just a possibility. Do what you can to protect yourself, and your unborn child.

braisler

Ok, an update for all of you friendly souls who have read my ramblings and offered sympathy or insight...

A couple of weeks ago my wife had to travel to a conference for 4 days. I think that the time apart did some good. We talked on the phone a bit while she was away, but I think it was mostly just the physical distance that gave her some perspective. When she returned, she seemed to have more invested in making our relationship work. She does more to make me feel appreciated. I feel that things are a bit more in balance.

We are at about 10 and a half weeks now. We have both agreed that we need to create a more positive energy environment for our baby and our marriage. Working on that common goal seems to help. I am still a little frustrated because we haven't really 'talked' through everything in our relationship. For now, we are just working on making the actions and the environment positive and reinforcing. We spend time talking about the baby, thinking of names (we don't know gender yet), talking about where each of us is in our parenting mentality. I'd like to actually talk with her about what is happening in our relationship, where we are headed. I think that she is starting to feel better about things. I am too. I haven't pushed the topic yet because I don't want to make waves and also partially because I am afraid of the answers I might get.

Sex is back on the menu. It feels good for both of us and we are getting that closeness that we both missed. I feel like she is still holding back some. She usually has been and continues to be the more 'receptive' partner. I'd like for her to be more agressive and interested, but that isn't something that we are working on right now. I guess it comes down to the difference between feeling accepted (where we are now) and feeling wanted (where I'd like to be). In retrospect, she says that she has been feeling this 'lack' of emotional connection with me for several years now. That makes sense from the sex point of view too, because it is co-incident with the time I last felt her being really passionate with me and 'wanting' me sexually.

I've been reading a lot of material, both in books and online, about marriage and relationships. One thing that struck me well is the idea that 'love' in marriage isn't really a state of mind so much as a verb. Love is something that you do for someone else. Being 'in love' might be equated with being excited by someone. Loving someone might be the same as caring about them. But love in a marriage grows based on the things that we do for the benefit of the other person. That we start out doing things for the person because we love them, but we end up loving the person because of the things that we do for them. Does that make any sense? Well, it made some sense to me, so I thought I'd share it.

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You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother.
- Albert Einstein
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Daniel_

I'm sorry to say that whilst it is great that you guys are talking, that without cast iron proof (that is not an assertion from your wife) you probably won't be far from the truth if you assume that she slept with the other guy during her 4 days away.

I realise that seems stunningly insensitive, but in my experience, a level of obsession like hers is not easilly turned off, and given a known 4 day trip away most people in her situation would have made arrangements to see their new flame.

Sorry.

I really want to be wrong, but I've seen it happen too many times to not be cynical.

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Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
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braisler

No, I know where the guy was and where she was. You are too cynical. Maybe drawing too closely from your own experience. She was stuck in a hotel room most of the time sick as a dog anyway.

I trust her at her word. Unless I have a real reason not too.

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You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother.
- Albert Einstein
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hunnychile

Daniel is probably right, dear one...

but that said, you were right when you finally realised that love is a verb. And it is always changing and metamorphasizing. Foreget the past unimportant travel days or prior months .... and enjoy the here & now. You might be able to ressurect your marriage esp. if the two of you are totally into the new baby, (it's a new beginning!!) but don't forget that you are each separate individuals who need space, freedom, peace and total openess. You two just might have the strength 7 love to evolve into a place of total foregiveness and honesty. Babies can help with the magic. They are a miracle. The best one there is. Keep talking & being truthful and patient.

God Bless You Three,
hunnychile

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spindles

Just a warning from a father with 2 small ones - they may seem like a way to hold a relationship together, but you might find once the baby has arrived that it is just an excuse to stay together. Babies are hard work for both the stay at home carer and the money earner, and if you guys are not fully happy being together then a new baby that is cutting into your sleeping time is not really going to help.

Having children has probably caused more tension in our relationship than any other single factor. Once the child has arrived make sure that you still:

• each have child free time, without each other (i.e. one looks after the baby while the other goes out to do stuff)
• you take advantage of others so that you can get out together without the baby
• you both carry the burden of getting out of bed in the middle of the night and doing baby stuff

You, at least, have to raise the issues that concern you, even if they are not resolved face to face. The do need resolution and if either party won't come to the party, then you most likely have an unhappy future together. Please don't think that you must stay together for the child's sake. You are better off ending your relationship when you are still civil with one another, if it means both of you have a good relationship with the child - otherwise they become a pawn in your later breakup (if/when it occurs).

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