Artsemis

I've heard in the past that diet pills are bad in general. Is this true? Does that include all of them or just non-herbal?

To be clear, my girlfriend, and perhaps myself may try them as we're both starting to gain some weight... me, mostly from sitting on my ass programming or playing games.

I found this site as well:
http://www.ultimatefatburner.com/

They do reviews of different fat burners and diets and such; does it seem like a legit site, meaning that its safe to try anything they recommend? I know these are supplements, but I plan to start running again and trying atkins or south beach and would try one of these as well if its safe and effective.

Btw, that site I mentioned above highly recommends this: *shrug*
http://www.ultimatefatburner.com/lean-system-seven.html


Thanks for any advice.

__________________

- Artsemis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are two keys to being the best:
1.) Never tell everything you know

newtx

I would avoid any type of diet pills. Even if you find one thats not bad for you its a temporary fix. Diet and exercise is the way to go. South Beach would work with running fairly well but not Atkins. With any type of exercise you need more good carbs than then you would have with Atkins.

mokle

If you just want to trim down, start excersizing a bit more make sure you're not doing what most programmers do and live off of junk food and red bull (I fell into that trap years ago). You'll be fine.

"Diet pills" are a gimmick to feed of the laziness of the public. There are supplements that work VERY well in cutting fat, but you won't need them unless you want to go into competitions, because the dedication you need to your diet and working out is far beyond what most people will want to do.

__________________
Mokle
"Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see" -Ali

Artsemis

I meant to use the word, supplementary pill, if there's a difference. I do agree about south beach and believe that is the one I'm going to go with.

That seems to be the general response ive gotten when I ask -- either way I'm going to start excersizing; I was just wondering if supplementary pills will help the process.

It's more or less a question between pills & excersize or just excersize alone. I'm mostly looking at that Lean System 7 I linked above that is based off things such as Green Tea.

__________________

- Artsemis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are two keys to being the best:
1.) Never tell everything you know

thingstodo

Well get off your ass and work out!! You don't need pills!!!!

__________________
If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

Artsemis

LOL I know, I know. Like I said, I am going to, but why is everyone so quick to dodge the question?

Are you guys saying Exercise > Exercize + Supplement? Even Green Tea?

__________________

- Artsemis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are two keys to being the best:
1.) Never tell everything you know

soccerchamp76

Talk with your physician.

Diet pills carry a lot of risk (hoodia, ephedra, caffeine, amphetamines).
While amphetamines aren't available for weight loss, they are very very potent appetite suppressants and were used for a long time as diet pills.

Losing weight is not easy and there is a large market for products for people to "lose weight FAST!!!".

But, speak with your physician and ask him what diet aids are safe given whatever medical history you may have; because they could send you on the fast track to heart failure.

__________________
Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

Artsemis

Thanks soccerchamp, that's a good idea. Speaking of hoodia, aside from the fact that its so rare now, most pills that claim to have it don't have enough of the active ingredient, what's harmful about it? I had just heard it literally does nothing since it's lacking the active ingredient.

Also, on the topic of green tea, are there any negative effects on it? There's plenty of supplements based on it, and while I'm not saying I'll get a pill based on just that, I may look into green tea itself.


Went and bought running shoes today and just got a salad instead of deep fried cheese sticks =)

__________________

- Artsemis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are two keys to being the best:
1.) Never tell everything you know

Jason762

[imitation of neighbor Wilson from Home Improvement] Mmmm hmmm... hmmmm mmmm [/imitation]

Pills, IMHO, are only good as plateau busters. Even then, you can bust a plateau by changing something in your work out, weather it's the order you do it in, the time of rest/duration of exercise/type of exercise.

Mmmm, no real negative effect. Caffeine itself can act as a diuretic, but just drink water. No worries there. It has lots of health benefits and can improve metabolism.

And don't get the pills, drink the actual tea. It'll help keep you feeling full in-between those 3 hour meals. I read somewhere (Men's Health maybe? AHHHH I read men's health! ) that 10 cups of tea equals about a serving of a green tea pill.

thingstodo

Look, these pills are a waste of time and more important, they can hurt you. They are various forms of speed, nothing more. That hurts your heart where excercise helps it!

I've read people that drink green tea every day have lower weight than those that don't. I have to idea why. I do know that there is no quick fix and you don't achive the same benefits from green tea in pill form. It might even be just slowing down and drinking something good for you.

__________________
If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

SofaKingA

Well, I am going to take the opposite stance. I know people that have had great results with diet pills. You will see even greater results if you eat and exercise along with taking pills as a supplement. Everyone on this board is anti supplement when in reality there are safe supplements and that includes pills. I would do exactly what you are doing and read about the pills before you buy them. I took diet pills to get cut up not necessarily to lose weight. In my experience they helped me get a little more cut up but they take some time to get used to. My stomach felt a little uneasy for about a week and then I could take them without being phased at all. It seems like you are on the right track, just read before you pop anything. I wouldnt suggest taking ephedra it wont allow you to sleep...

mokle

Well, not everyone I take more supplements in a week than most people will in their lives.

Supplements can help drastically if taken right.

And ephedrine is the most effective fat loss supplement on the market

__________________
Mokle
"Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see" -Ali

SofaKingA

Thank God somebody else does. I take many a supplements as well, I take NO Xplode, L-carnitine, multivitamin, Creatine, and protein. I took an ephedra based fat burner, and I agree it is effective but in my case it wasnt worth the sleep loss. I felt sick for about 4 days when I first started but then I got used to it. I still couldn't fall asleep though.

mokle

Haha, yeah, well, thats what the melatonin I take at night is for

In the winter when I work 18 hours or more some days, I'll take 100mg of ephedrine. I won't be able to write my hands will shake so bad. I try not to do it that often though.

__________________
Mokle
"Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see" -Ali

thingstodo

Gosh, it scares me that you believe this crap. Speed is speed, and it crancks up your heart.

Any pill you take to increase your metabolism is only a temp fix and the weight comes back, bigger and badder than ever. The only way to be effective is to stay away from supplements and learn to eat right. And if your body needs sleep...listen to your body!

__________________
If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

mokle

Heh, sure, thanks for the tip.

For the average lazy ass who sits on a couch all day that's probably true.

I'll stick to the proven methods that work for me.

__________________
Mokle
"Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see" -Ali

Jason762

I take supps too, but I know how to use them, and I don't depend on it like some do.

I take (and have taken) multivitamins, caffeine, pysillum husk (make ya poop soft when you're doing them CKD diets :-P) L-carnitine, calcium, and joint pills.

Just be careful with ephedrine. Start low. You WILL build a tolerance!

soccerchamp76

Warning to some: Ephedrine is the chemical that is used in the beginning of the methamphetamine process. All that is done is converting the -OH group to a hydrogen. That is where the speed is speed comments are coming from. Please talk to your physician before taking any stimulants for weight loss. Putting your heart on overdrive when you have an underlying heart condition is a death wish.

Ephedrine (pseudoephedrine [cough medicine] is the diastereomer of ephedrine)


Methamphetamine

__________________
Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

thingstodo

Heh, it wasn't a tip. You're 21. There are many things I wish I didn't do at 21 and now haunt me. Your "proven methods" will prove even more over time.

Oh, and what I said is true for everyone, not just the "lazy ass that sits on the couch all day." All bodies are basically the same. You may think you're getting away with something or know better...but good luck with that in the long run!

Well put and thanks for the logical support. I guess some people think they are above the laws of nature!

__________________
If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

Artsemis

I'm not planning to take anything with Ephedrine, by the way. I'm still listening and haven't taken anything yet. Carry on =)

ps. Please, PLEASE, read this:
http://www.ultimatefatburner.com/lean-system-seven.html

That is the main one i'm interested in, I've read good reviews and want opinions mostly from those against diet pills if there is something wrong with it.

__________________

- Artsemis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are two keys to being the best:
1.) Never tell everything you know

mokle

7-keto and green tea are both very good supplements to take if you're cutting, so yes, "lean system 7" looks like it will work. It'd be cheaper for you to by them separatly in bulk, if you're worried about cost.

__________________
Mokle
"Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see" -Ali

thingstodo

You can spend your money on that or go walk an hour every day. One will train your body how to process fat for days into the future and one will drain your wallet. Oh, and the other is free. Seems like simple math. And better health.

__________________
If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

mokle

Or he could do both, and achieve better results faster.

HIIT is better for you than walking, too.

__________________
Mokle
"Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see" -Ali

Artsemis

Thank you!

thingstodo, I really value your opinion but please listen. I'm simply asking if there is anything harmful in that which I linked. Either way I'm going to be running, I'm just wondering if there's harm in trying Lean System 7 while doing so.

If it doesn't work, I'll know. I'll stop wasting money; I'm simply asking if there's anything harmful in it. By harmful, I mean worse than drinking a can of red bull

__________________

- Artsemis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are two keys to being the best:
1.) Never tell everything you know

soccerchamp76

Lean System 7's system contains synephrine, another phenethylamine similar to amphetamines. The site calls it "ephedrine's milder, gentler cousin". How cute, they phrase it quite nice.

You can compare it to the above images of the line-angle pictures of the chemical structure.

__________________
Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

shakran

Bullshit #1.

OK, so it's not a system, and they're putting whatever crap they can legally get away with in the country they're selling it and calling it the same thing. If peanuts are illegal in Canada I can't stuff grapes in a jar and call it peanut butter.

Bullshit #2.

Synephrine raises your blood pressure. You do not want to be messing with something that screws with your circulatory system.

The site also fails to mention that this citrus extract also contains Octopamine, which is a relative of Synephrine. Both have been shown to be effective at burning a specific kind of fat in lab tests on dogs. This fat is called brown adipose tissue. Unfortunately, adult humans do not have brown adipose tissue, so unless you're giving it to your fat dog, it's not going to do any good.


Bullshit #3.

That study is the only one that has been done on 7-keto. It was a two month study in which the people taking 7-keto were significantly more overweight than the control group that was not taking 7-keto. That changed the experiment. Instead of "will the drug make people lose weight faster," the question changed to "can fatter people lose more fat than thinner people?" Rhetorical questions are not generally condusive to scientifically valid experiments.

Bullshit #4.

This statement shows that this kid isn't scientifically reviewing anything he tests. He's going based on perception. If you're willing to put your health and possibly your life on the line based on what some dude posting to the internet thinks he might notice about the drug, well, there's not much help for ya then.

Bullshit #5.

This is like the guy who says "I can get yellow paint by mixing white and pink paint together" and then when he goes to prove it he says "of course it won't work unless I put a bunch of yellow in there too."

Diet and exercise will cause you to lose weight whether you take some magic pill or not. Therefore the magic pill is not necessary, even if it does have a small effect. (if it had a better than negligible effect, do you really think a real drug company wouldn't have noticed this, patented it, and now be selling it to you for $200 a bottle?).

Bullshit #6.

That study was done by the Minnesota Applied Research Center. MARC is a business which specializes in "testing" dietary supplements. It's affiliated with Health Strategy Consulting LLC, which is a marketing company specializing in helping supplement companies sell their products. MARC's clinical trial department is not run by a doctor. It is run by a nurse who has had physician assistant training (but has not actually gotten the creds to be a PA).

And this lack of competence from the top down shows in their study. They started with 47 subjects. 35 completed the study. This is an appallingly low number of subjects. It is laughable that they would even try to justify applying this to the entire human race.

This is the same study I mentioned above. The big thing they point out in this study is the reduction in hip circumference comparison between the control and the LS7 group. As I mentioned above, of course a fatter person will shrink more than a thinner person. They have more to shrink. They make sure to point out that there are no "statistically significant differences in any other outcome variable" but they specifically fail to mention input variables. In other words, they're trying to cover up the fact that they got a bunch of fat people to take LS7 and compared them to a bunch of less-fat people. To use technical terms, the entire study is suspect. To use frank terms, the entire study is bullshit.



Now that I've dissected some (not all) of the bullshit (oh there's LOTS more bullshit, but only so many minutes in a day to type it all out) hopefully you'll see that you are about to fall victim to a marketing ploy. And that's what these guys are banking on.

Countless ads in magazines and on TV tout the results of "clinical trials" to prove their product is effective at whatever they're claiming. An ad like that is relying on your gullability to sell the product. The questions that should immediately pop into your head when you see an ad like that is "what clinic? What were the parameters of the experiment? What are the qualifications of those conducting the experiment? Is there financial motivation to have the experiment come out a certain way?"

They can claim clinical trials all they want. They can even invent fancy names like "Applied Research Center." But all that fancy pseudo-scientific claptrap does not change the fact that it is a marketing firm getting paid to sell a product. Once you realize that, you hopefully will take these claims with a very large grain of salt.

(here comes a bit of a rant. Consider yourself warned.)

And regarding the diet pill industry in general, I mentioned the phrase "magic pill" above. And that's exactly what people are looking for. They want that magic pill that will turn them into a lean muscle machine without actually having to work hard for it. I know you say you're going to diet and exercise but if that's true then why on earth do you need a pill? If the diet and exercise are going to result in you being thin and muscular, then a pill which makes you thin and muscular would be overkill. The real issue here is that you (and about a kajillion other people) are looking for that magic pill that will reduce the amount of effort you have to put out in order to achieve your goal. It all goes back to good old American values. Everything has to be easy. Hell even exercise machines are sold as being easy to work out on. Why the hell would you want an easy work out? If it's not easy, Americans don't want it. And this idiotic value system is a GOLDmine for advertisers and inventors. Roll up windows were too HARD to work in cars so they went to electric. But someone decided it was just too HARD to hold that button until the window went down so they made it so you only have to hit the button once for the window to go all the way down.

Someone decided making peanut butter sandwiches for the kids is too hard so they came out with this PB&J in a tortilla prepackaged abomination that looks like an albino hockey puck and tastes about the same, and costs as much as 5 good PB&J sandwiches. Why? Because it's so much easier to take a pre-made thing and throw it in the kid's lunch box. Actually doing something about making his lunch would be too HARD and that goes against our value system. Go wander through a store some time and look at the boxes. A great many of them will have something somewhere on the product that tells you how easy or simple it is to do whatever the product is for.

And this value system is especially a goldmine in the diet industry because 1) losing weight is genuinely hard, unlike making peanut butter sandwiches and 2) the diet industry is prety much unregulated by any government agency, so they can get away with telling you anything they want, and putting anything they want in the product.

Let's look at how this and clever advertising works with this product.

With this specific pill they can put a tiny amount of the active ingredient, and then tell you that the active ingredient is in there. That's true, so they won't get nabbed by the federal trade commission for false advertising. Then they tell you the active ingredient's been shown to burn fat. That's also true (they cleverly avoid mentioning that it's only been shown to burn fat in dogs, and that it only burned a kind of fat that dogs have and people do not).

Then they say in their advertising (lifted from their site) "can help you safely burn bodyfat faster than you ever imagined!"

Let's dissect that.

CAN HELP you. . .

Those two words negate the rest of the sentence. They want you to think that you'll lose weight by taking this pill, but what they're really saying is something entirely different. A bottle of water CAN HELP you put out a forest fire, but in reality you won't notice the effects at all.

"faster than you ever imagined"

And exactly how fast is that? How fast do YOU imagine you can burn body fat? I bet it's different than how fast I imagine I can burn body fat. This is a statement that's considered so obviously exaggerated that they can get away with using it, even though it means nothing at all.

So now all we have left in the sentence is "safely." That's the only word they have to stand by because every other phrase is modified by something that negates it, or the phrase negates itself.

So as long as this pill doesn't actually kill you, they're in the clear from a truth in advertising standpoint.

I know this is kind of long, but you're falling into the same trap that people fall into all the time with advertising. It's a trap that no one needs to stumble into as long as they read the ad critically and figure out what the ad is really saying.

And what all these ads are saying is basically "hey, take this pill and we promise it won't kill you." Not exactly something I'd recommend you waste money on.

soccerchamp76

What diet pill and other pill manufacturer's do is mix enough scientific charts, nomenclature, and *facts* to convince the 99% of the public that does not understand how to lose weight and what diet pills really are that their product will work.

All diet pills (and energy drinks for that matter) contain either one STIMULANT or a cocktail of several stimulants and caffeine. Stimulants raise blood pressure, increase the heart rate, and can be extremely dangerous when used by someone who does not understand the risks, or is unaware of their medical history. As you saw in the pictures I showed, these compounds are in the same family and all carry very similar effects AND risks.

Adding in caffeine to these pills increases the stimulant effects and puts your heart on overdrive.

The following are various stimulants and their names. Even a person with no knowledge of organic and biological chemistry will see the similarities.
Ephedrine: used as a decongestant and in the production of methamphetamine.

Methamphetamine: very powerful and addictive stimulant, appetite suppressant, and recreational drug.

Synephrine: Stimulant similar to ephedrine that has shown to cause strokes [source: Mayo Clinic]

Phenylephrine: Decongestant that is also used to INCREASE blood pressure [for patients with hypotension].

Fenfluramine: commonly known as FenFen, the popular weight loss drug that was pulled off the market due to instances of stroke and heart disease.

Phenmetrazine: Appetite suppressant that was pulled off of the market due to abuse. Drug users commented that they preferred this drug to methamphetamine for getting high.

MDA (3,4-Methylenedioxyamphetamine): This is a psychedelic hallucinogenic drug similar to Ecstacy

MDMA: Also known as Ecstacy, the popular club drug.

__________________
Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

thingstodo

If you only do HIIT you'll nevef train your body to process fat. Read the attached from a six-time Ironman winner if you want support for that position. Low intensity is an important part of the package. Also, I was being a little sarcastic comparing pills to actual excercise.


http://rapidshare.de/files/10622786/...e500k.wmv.html

Than I think the answer is yes, it is harmful. Anything that speeds up your body with chemicals will hurt you. Red Bull is bad due to the chemicals and the (refined) sugar crash from glyco problems.

I've seena few studies on all the "energy" drinks. About the only one that is really effective and safe is 5 Hour Energy because it is mainly a high concentration of B vitamins.

shakran, soccerchamp76... a tip of the hat for some great material!

__________________
If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

Ample

I have a question

If I took a supplement that wasnt great for my body, but I do diet and I do exercise a lot. Would my heart take the punishment better, or would the added stress make it worst?

Before you say, "you don't need it if you are dieting and exercising". I dont want to say that I plateaued, but I just have about five pounds left that just seem impossible to loose. I mean minus the calories that I burn from running. My daily intake is only 900-1100 a day, and really need something to push me over the edge.

__________________

Her juju beads are so nice
She kissed my third cousin twice
Im the king of pomona

soccerchamp76

Depends, do you have any blood pressure problems or heart abnormalities? Family history of heart disease?

You could have atherosclerosis [hardening of the arteries due to plaque buildup] without every knowing it and the use of the stimulants could push you into a heart attack. Be very careful with those pills and remember, talk with your doctor about them.

__________________
Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

Jason762

1100 calories?! You better weigh no more than 85 pounds and that's lean body mass calculations!! That's WAY to little. Especially with cardio? Dude (or dudette), eat more. I bet you have very little muscle now.

Those last 5 pounds are hard to lose. Even harder if you don't have the muscle to burn those calories. Muscle burns calories, so the more you have, the more calories you consume. If you have been undereating like that, you're not gonna have a lot of muscle, thus very little calorie burning effect.

Let me think/look around a bit and see if I can help (without having to resort to suppliments).

EDIT: I'm not gonna give advice, but if you want it I will give it. Good luck on your quest! Let us know how it goes.

soccerchamp76

I don't know where you got your information, but you lose weight by a caloric deficit. One pound of fat is equivalent to 3500 Calories. So, assume you have a 2000 Calorie metabolism (+any Calories burned during the day), if you consume 1500 Calories/day, you will lose one pound of fat every week.

So, telling someone to eat MORE to LOSE weight is simple failure in math. Eating below your basal metabolism will result in fat loss, not muscle atrophy as you allude to. The reason that weight-lifters eat such a high-caloric diet is so that they have the energy necessary to amass such muscle and that their body will also use all of the excess Calories for bodily processes (metabolism). This person is trying to lose weight, explained above.

__________________
Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

Artsemis

Okay so I'm going to see how it goes without any supplements.

Just out of curiosity though, because I do drink Red Bull occasionally (finals, tests, etc.); when we're talking about how bad something like Lean System 7 is -- compare that on a scale to something like Red Bull please.

Say Red Bull is the control at 5. Same? Better? Worse?

__________________

- Artsemis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are two keys to being the best:
1.) Never tell everything you know

thingstodo

Atually you're a little off base there, even though it is math.

Most people lose weight in the biginning of a diet by eating less. Then, their very smart body figures out that there is less food coming in so it begins to store food. Unless you just go without, your body slows your metabolism down and stores, which is why most dieters plateau.

It's much more important to eat right and STAY AWAY from refined sugar and refined carbs (like white flour), both of which are in processed foods. The only decent sugars are from maple syrup, honey and aguava syrup.

__________________
If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves.

Stangers have the best candy.

soccerchamp76

True, if you begin an initial crash diet, your body will respond by shutting down and slowing down your metabolism. However, the ways to counteract that include exercise, which is why exercise is crucial to any diet plan as it raises your metabolism.
Another key component is eating several, around 6, meals a day instead of your typical 3 meals a day. Skipping breakfast is also bad as your body will slow down your metabolism early in the day. Ideally, you would eat a small breakfast (say a banana, apple, and whole grain toast), then do your cardiovascular exercise in the morning. Exercising in the morning will jumpstart your body and metabolism and will aid in losing those extra 5 lbs.

__________________
Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

Jason762

Ah well I got my information from people who gain weight and lose fat for a living... bodybuilders.

The reason I'm telling him to eat more is because he's eating so few calories that his body is probably consuming muscles to feed itself (catabolism).

The math for dieting goes like this:

Lean Body Mass (LBM) multiplied by 13-15 (13 for super-strict dieting - i.e. the most fat loss possible).

This is maintenance. Here you neither gain nor lose weight.

Subtract 500 calories (by either exercise or food intake), and there you have the start to fat loss with minimal muscle loss.

Since he consumes 1,100 calories, using the above formula he would weigh 123 pounds of lean body mass. 123 pounds!!

In case you didn't know, improper dieting can lead to a fat:muscle loss ratio of 2:1. So fpr every 16 ounces of fat loss, you'll have 8 ounces of muscle loss.

Most bodybuilders are able to put in 10 pounds of muscle mass in a year. Can you imagine how long it would take the average joe to put on 10 pounds of muscle mass?

EDIT: Here's what undereating and over exercising CAN do to you. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=bodybuilding

soccerchamp76

Fat in the body is stored energy. So, when your body needs the energy, it uses the fat cells for energy, not muscle.

And, you said 'improper dieting' can result in the 2:1 ratio. Poor nutrition and starvation can do that to you, yes. However, nowhere has anybody told him to diet improperly. I gave the advice of 6 small meals a day to maintain his metabolism, and 500 caloric deficit/day and he will lose 1lb/week, well within the general dieting guidelines. Losing 5lbs in over a month is NOT considered crash dieting. His metabolism COULD be only 1600 Calories, he did not provide us with that information however.

__________________
Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.