Gambling in Vegas [Hold'em] - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Artsemis · 12-16-2004, 07:23 AM

I was just reading over Hellmuth's book (any poker fan will know who he is) and I noticed that he said in a game such as $1-$2 limit or less, it is very hard to make any money at all due to the amount the house takes.

I was just wondering what others' thoughts are on this who have played personally as I will be going to Vegas rather soon but I dont have anywhere near the cash to play things like $10/$20 games and have any fun with it.

If im going to lose, i at least want it to last a while.

c172g · 12-16-2004, 01:52 PM

I went to Vegas a few years back, sat down with a $50 buy in & played all day. I think I sat there about 8 hours & won about $400. Got up to take a leak, came back, played for another four hours, lost everything.

If you want to play cheap & for a long time, go to "old vegas" downtown & play blackjack for $2 a hand. I'm sure you can also find a cheap hold em game there as well. The strip casinos have high buy-ins during the weekends (it's almost impossible to find a $5 blackjack or craps game). I don't agree with the amount the house takes as making it impossible to win money. My two cents / five dollars worth..

GeePeeS'r · 12-16-2004, 04:42 PM

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the "house's take"? Do they charge you to play on a per game/hand basis? Or per win? Or does the ante go to the house? I am clueless when it comes to "real" poker - but I am probably going to vegas this summer, and want to know as much as possible.

Artsemis · 12-16-2004, 10:44 PM

They take a percentage of each raked pot, basically. And in a low limit game where the pots are very small, Hellmuth is saying it is very difficult to make any money at all.

A $50 buy-in, however, is completely fine with me... I plan on doing some buy-in's but Im speaking of the sit-n-go tables where you can come and go.

underscor_ · 12-19-2004, 12:57 AM

At the low limit games, the rake taken from each pot is proportionally high. At a 15/30 game, the rake will usually have a small effect; at a 1/2 game, the rake will have [in comparison] a large effect.

What is your aim in playing? Are you playing to relax, have fun, play some poker and have a few drinks? Or are you playing to seriously try to work out a profit?

If it's the former, then I really wouldn't worry about the rake. It won't cause you to lose all your money in 10 minutes and prevent you from having fun with the game.

goddfather40 · 12-19-2004, 10:17 AM

My suggestion is to never play anything less than $5/$10. Under that, especially in Vegas, too many people play loose and you'll get sucked out on many hands by these people catching lucky hands. The rake isn't really a concern. I think you should find a $100 or $200 buy-in no limit table (if you can afford it

). You'll still have some really loose players, but not as many. Follow Phil's advice and play very tight but very aggressive.

underscor_ · 12-19-2004, 11:54 AM

Players playing loose is a good thing. You may not win as many pots because they are often sucking out, but when you do win, the pots are much bigger. When players are going in with any two cards and you are playing tight and aggressively, you have a huge equity advantage. The low limit games are easily beaten by any skilled player, it matters not how loose the opponents are. (Assuming the rake isn't unsurmountable.)

Artsemis · 12-20-2004, 03:32 AM

Thanks for the responses

Basically I want to have fun but I would say it is more important to me to win a little money. I do play alot and I do think I have a fair chance, but I have only my friends and people in online poker games to compare myself with.

Anyways, I might take the advice about the $100 buy-in tourney - how many people / tables are those?

lk_3000 · 12-20-2004, 09:11 AM

Thanks for the info, playing the smaller buyin's was my plan to take over the poker world. I'm going to try playing some games at Atlantic City just to play with other people. out of 6 of my friends, me and another end up winning the games.

wolf · 12-20-2004, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artsemis

Thanks for the responses

Basically I want to have fun but I would say it is more important to me to win a little money. I do play alot and I do think I have a fair chance, but I have only my friends and people in online poker games to compare myself with.

Anyways, I might take the advice about the $100 buy-in tourney - how many people / tables are those?

Hey, here is a good place to play for real or for fake money to get your feet wet with NL Texas Hold 'em

http://www.partypoker.com

Small install and you play online.

goddfather40 · 12-20-2004, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artsemis

Thanks for the responses

Basically I want to have fun but I would say it is more important to me to win a little money. I do play alot and I do think I have a fair chance, but I have only my friends and people in online poker games to compare myself with.

Anyways, I might take the advice about the $100 buy-in tourney - how many people / tables are those?

I think you may be referencing my suggestion. The $100 buy in no limit tables are cash games, they are not a tourney. You start off with $100 in chips and the blinds range anywhere from $1/$2 to $3/$5. You play as long as you like or until you bust out. At that point, you can rebuy too.

wu54736 · 12-27-2004, 08:18 AM

A tournament is also good way to kill some time, plus you don't have the additional temptation of betting more than you originally intend to.

ironchef82 · 12-27-2004, 08:01 PM

In the short term, anything can happen at a low limit holdem table. You can be up $100, you can be down $100, both by playing perfectly. Unfortunately luck plays a big role at low limit holdem in the short term.

In the long term however, you want to be playing at a loose table, where players chase cards. Even though you might get frustrated from time to time by players catching lucky cards, the smart players will be making money in the long run at those games. Whether or not that your profit will be enough to offset the rake though is another question... I have a feeling you'd still be making enough profit.

My advice: just play smart, play at poker rooms along the Strip (Excalibur has a pretty soft 1-3 spread limit game), and try not to get frustrated by players catching lucky cards. Good luck!

12-16-2004, 07:23 AM	#1 (permalink)
Artsemis Insane Location: West Virginia	Gambling in Vegas [Hold'em] I was just reading over Hellmuth's book (any poker fan will know who he is) and I noticed that he said in a game such as $1-$2 limit or less, it is very hard to make any money at all due to the amount the house takes. I was just wondering what others' thoughts are on this who have played personally as I will be going to Vegas rather soon but I dont have anywhere near the cash to play things like $10/$20 games and have any fun with it. If im going to lose, i at least want it to last a while. __________________ - Artsemis ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There are two keys to being the best: 1.) Never tell everything you know

12-16-2004, 10:44 PM	#4 (permalink)
Artsemis Insane Location: West Virginia	They take a percentage of each raked pot, basically. And in a low limit game where the pots are very small, Hellmuth is saying it is very difficult to make any money at all. A $50 buy-in, however, is completely fine with me... I plan on doing some buy-in's but Im speaking of the sit-n-go tables where you can come and go. __________________ - Artsemis ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There are two keys to being the best: 1.) Never tell everything you know

12-19-2004, 10:17 AM	#6 (permalink)
goddfather40 Llama Location: Cali-for-nye-a	My suggestion is to never play anything less than $5/$10. Under that, especially in Vegas, too many people play loose and you'll get sucked out on many hands by these people catching lucky hands. The rake isn't really a concern. I think you should find a $100 or $200 buy-in no limit table (if you can afford it ). You'll still have some really loose players, but not as many. Follow Phil's advice and play very tight but very aggressive. __________________ My name is goddfather40 and I approved this message. I got ho's and I got bitches, In C++ I branch with switches -MC Plus+

12-20-2004, 03:32 AM	#8 (permalink)
Artsemis Insane Location: West Virginia	Thanks for the responses Basically I want to have fun but I would say it is more important to me to win a little money. I do play alot and I do think I have a fair chance, but I have only my friends and people in online poker games to compare myself with. Anyways, I might take the advice about the $100 buy-in tourney - how many people / tables are those? __________________ - Artsemis ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There are two keys to being the best: 1.) Never tell everything you know

12-27-2004, 08:18 AM	#12 (permalink)
wu54736 Upright Location: Northern VA	A tournament is also good way to kill some time, plus you don't have the additional temptation of betting more than you originally intend to. __________________ Oh Bart, when I was your age, I wanted an electronic football game so bad. Until finally, one day my parents got it for me, and it was the happiest day of my life.

12-16-2004, 01:52 PM	#2 (permalink)
c172g Crazy Location: Michigan	I went to Vegas a few years back, sat down with a $50 buy in & played all day. I think I sat there about 8 hours & won about $400. Got up to take a leak, came back, played for another four hours, lost everything. If you want to play cheap & for a long time, go to "old vegas" downtown & play blackjack for $2 a hand. I'm sure you can also find a cheap hold em game there as well. The strip casinos have high buy-ins during the weekends (it's almost impossible to find a $5 blackjack or craps game). I don't agree with the amount the house takes as making it impossible to win money. My two cents / five dollars worth..

12-16-2004, 04:42 PM	#3 (permalink)
GeePeeS'r Crazy Location: Tampa, FL	Pardon my ignorance, but what is the "house's take"? Do they charge you to play on a per game/hand basis? Or per win? Or does the ante go to the house? I am clueless when it comes to "real" poker - but I am probably going to vegas this summer, and want to know as much as possible.

12-19-2004, 12:57 AM	#5 (permalink)
underscor_ Upright	At the low limit games, the rake taken from each pot is proportionally high. At a 15/30 game, the rake will usually have a small effect; at a 1/2 game, the rake will have [in comparison] a large effect. What is your aim in playing? Are you playing to relax, have fun, play some poker and have a few drinks? Or are you playing to seriously try to work out a profit? If it's the former, then I really wouldn't worry about the rake. It won't cause you to lose all your money in 10 minutes and prevent you from having fun with the game.

12-19-2004, 11:54 AM	#7 (permalink)
underscor_ Upright	Players playing loose is a good thing. You may not win as many pots because they are often sucking out, but when you do win, the pots are much bigger. When players are going in with any two cards and you are playing tight and aggressively, you have a huge equity advantage. The low limit games are easily beaten by any skilled player, it matters not how loose the opponents are. (Assuming the rake isn't unsurmountable.)

12-20-2004, 09:11 AM	#9 (permalink)
lk_3000 Tilted	Thanks for the info, playing the smaller buyin's was my plan to take over the poker world. I'm going to try playing some games at Atlantic City just to play with other people. out of 6 of my friends, me and another end up winning the games.

12-27-2004, 08:01 PM	#13 (permalink)
ironchef82 Banned Location: Tucson	In the short term, anything can happen at a low limit holdem table. You can be up $100, you can be down $100, both by playing perfectly. Unfortunately luck plays a big role at low limit holdem in the short term. In the long term however, you want to be playing at a loose table, where players chase cards. Even though you might get frustrated from time to time by players catching lucky cards, the smart players will be making money in the long run at those games. Whether or not that your profit will be enough to offset the rake though is another question... I have a feeling you'd still be making enough profit. My advice: just play smart, play at poker rooms along the Strip (Excalibur has a pretty soft 1-3 spread limit game), and try not to get frustrated by players catching lucky cards. Good luck!