Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > The Academy > Tilted Knowledge and How-To


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-11-2004, 06:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
Americow, the Beautiful
 
Supple Cow's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, D.C.
Flies - what's the use?

I was just thinking about this Mark Twain piece I read in high school about flies. It was meant to question the existence of God, but it got me thinking about ecosystems. In the piece, he wrote about all the bad things that flies do - eating at festering wounds and stealing our food - and said that there was no good use for a fly (and then came the question of why God would create something that is all bad and no good). So that's my question - what is a fly good for (in an ecosystems sense)?

I have my own theory, but I'm curious about what you all think.

EDIT: In case anybody's interested in the Mark Twain piece, it's called "Thoughts of God" and can be found 4 stories down on this atheism page [LINK].
__________________
"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
(Michael Jordan)

Last edited by Supple Cow; 07-15-2004 at 06:57 AM..
Supple Cow is offline  
Old 07-11-2004, 08:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
Junkie
 
I'm not sure, but I think they aid in the decomposition of dead organic material somehow. That would explain why they're attracted to it anyway.
SinisterMotives is offline  
Old 07-11-2004, 08:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
Insane
 
Phage's Avatar
 
Stuff eats flies. That stuff gets eaten by other stuff, and eventually becomes of use to us.

Also:

Good cannot exist without evil.
Phage is offline  
Old 07-11-2004, 08:20 PM   #4 (permalink)
Tone.
 
shakran's Avatar
 
yup. They're scavengers, and help get rid of dead things.

The better example would have been the mosquito
shakran is offline  
Old 07-12-2004, 07:58 AM   #5 (permalink)
Crazy
 
i think its the maggots that are more important to the decomposition than the adult flies themselves as they tend to just eat sugary substances, mate and then die off.
__________________
"How soft your fields so green, Can whisper tales of gore"
"Thou art god"
jaco is offline  
Old 07-12-2004, 08:15 AM   #6 (permalink)
Devoted
 
Redlemon's Avatar
 
Donor
Location: New England
As Ogden Nash wrote:
Quote:
God in his wisdom made the fly
And then forgot to tell us why.
__________________
I can't read your signature. Sorry.
Redlemon is offline  
Old 07-12-2004, 02:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
pig
pigglet pigglet
 
pig's Avatar
 
Location: Locash
In addition, flies can carry a host of diseases which have played strong roles in the development of social clashes throughout history. I don't if you want to consider that good, but it's a necessary function.
__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style
pig is offline  
Old 07-12-2004, 04:58 PM   #8 (permalink)
Mjollnir Incarnate
 
Location: Lost in thought
Quote:
Originally posted by pigglet
In addition, flies can carry a host of diseases which have played strong roles in the development of social clashes throughout history. I don't if you want to consider that good, but it's a necessary function.
Well, I suppose that you could make the argument that they helped social blending and the exchange of ideas/knowledge.

But yeah, what do mosquitos (is it "oes") do besides suck blood and spread West Nile and Malaria?
Slavakion is offline  
Old 07-12-2004, 08:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
!?!No hay pantalones!?!
 
saltfish's Avatar
 
Location: Indian-no-place
It could be said that mosquitoes help to spread viri that inadvertantly add their own RNA into your chromosomes. This added RNA will find its way into the midst a gene or a gene promoter.

These types of occurances do, in a way, help organisims to evolve. We may owe our own evolution to a mosquito-like creature.

Now, it is unfortunate that they do spread diseases that kill millions of people, though their effects in the long run are thought to better a specie. You can leave that up to your own interpretation.

-SF
saltfish is offline  
Old 07-13-2004, 09:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
Junkie
 
The flies lay eggs.

The eggs become maggots, which are eaters of decayed flesh.

Maggots are now part of a treatment for people with non-healing/slow-healing ulcerations and wounds. Maggots only eat decayed flesh, leaving healthy tissue untouched. Of course, the maggots used are not picked off a pile of garbage. they are bred in sterile conditions and carefully counted during the procedure and accounted for after the treatment.

When the dead tissue is eaten, healthy tissue has a better chance of forming. Less chance of gangrene occuring.

Pretty cool stuff, actually. Who'd'a thought.

http://www.google.com/search?q=maggo...utf-8&oe=utf-8
__________________
+++++++++++Boom!
tropple is offline  
Old 07-14-2004, 02:43 AM   #11 (permalink)
Addict
 
to think of 'uses' of flies is sort of like continuing the old anthropocentric view of nature. in another perspective, nature is mindless and without design, and the fly is just due to a series of changes or adaptations that that happened to be favourable to survival and eventually led to what we know as the fly. its goal in life is to survive long enough to propagate. nothing good or bad about it.
phukraut is offline  
Old 07-14-2004, 03:48 PM   #12 (permalink)
Americow, the Beautiful
 
Supple Cow's Avatar
 
Location: Washington, D.C.
Quote:
Originally posted by phukraut
to think of 'uses' of flies is sort of like continuing the old anthropocentric view of nature. in another perspective, nature is mindless and without design, and the fly is just due to a series of changes or adaptations that that happened to be favourable to survival and eventually led to what we know as the fly. its goal in life is to survive long enough to propagate. nothing good or bad about it.
I didn't say "What good are flies to humans. I asked what they were "good for" (as in what do they do?) within various ecosystems. I understand where you're coming from, but that's now what I was asking. "What is it good for?" is just another (simpler) way of asking, "In what ways does the fly interact within its ecosystems?" My experience with evolutionary biology tells me that there are still a good number of scientists who use language shortcuts despite the fact that people who read it too literally come to misinterpret their words.

Tropple - thanks for that fun information!
__________________
"I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed."
(Michael Jordan)
Supple Cow is offline  
Old 07-14-2004, 04:19 PM   #13 (permalink)
Addict
 
ah sorry i misinterpreted your meaning of the word 'good'. i understand now. =)
phukraut is offline  
Old 07-15-2004, 02:52 AM   #14 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Supple Cow
Tropple - thanks for that fun information!
Sure thing. I watch a lot of science programs ;-)
__________________
+++++++++++Boom!
tropple is offline  
Old 07-15-2004, 08:37 AM   #15 (permalink)
Upright
 
Both flies and mosquitoes pollinate flowers to some extent. In places where bees are less prevalent, this may become significant. BTW, there are a lot of different species of fly, some more obviously beneficial than others.

Try googling "flies pollinate" and "mosquitoes pollinate" for some interesting links.

Also, both flies and mosquitoes serve as food for other species, such as fish, birds, bats, and other insects.
rakshasa is offline  
Old 07-18-2004, 09:38 PM   #16 (permalink)
Psycho
 
Kazic's Avatar
 
Location: Fortress of Solitude
Wouldn't think that Flies/Mosquitoes would do much in the way of advancing humanity other than helping to develop repellents and killing agents. Maggots help the decopmose flesh but what do flies do? and Mosquitoes help spread disease, So we have built up defenses against them. If they weren't around would we really have to worry about getting Malaria or Westnile?
__________________
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man
affected us as kids,we'd all be running around in
darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening
to repetitive electronic music."
-Kristian Wilson, Nintendo, Inc, 1989
Kazic is offline  
Old 07-19-2004, 06:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
Psycho
 
gonadman's Avatar
 
Location: Philly
Interestingly, flies may interact with humans more than we are aware. An organism called H. Pylori is commonly found to infect the stomach of individuals with treatment resistant ulcers and gastritis. The stomach irritation resolves once the H. Pylori is irradicated with a specific antibiotic regimen. The source of H. Pylori? Many researchers theorize it may be spread by infected flies landing on the food you are about to eat...
__________________
For me there is only the traveling on paths that have heart, on any path that may have heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge is to traverse its full length. And there I travel, looking, looking, ...breathlessly.
-Carlos Castaneda
gonadman is offline  
Old 07-26-2004, 06:03 PM   #18 (permalink)
Addict ed to smack
 
skinnymofo's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle
Quote:
The better example would have been the mosquito
or ticks, fleas and other parasitic things
excluding leaches~
skinnymofo is offline  
Old 07-30-2004, 02:15 AM   #19 (permalink)
Insane
 
bigbad's Avatar
 
Mosquitoes feed bats, as well as their larvae feeding fish. Flies and maggots feed birds. You stumped me with ticks and fleas though, not a clue there
bigbad is offline  
Old 07-30-2004, 08:09 AM   #20 (permalink)
ham on rye would be nice
 
greyeyes's Avatar
 
Location: I don't even know anymore
Flies are useful in a sence that they can be food for other animals like fish, also Maggots have been used (and still are used) on wounds so that they do not get infected and aid in the healing process.
__________________
I'm kind of jealous of the life I'm supposedly leading.
- Zach Braff
greyeyes is offline  
Old 08-04-2004, 08:31 AM   #21 (permalink)
Junkie
 
New article on CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/08/02....ap/index.html
__________________
+++++++++++Boom!
tropple is offline  
Old 08-05-2004, 08:37 AM   #22 (permalink)
Insane
 
population control?

They carry diseases which kills people.

Killing people isnt a bad thing.
junglistic is offline  
Old 08-05-2004, 05:57 PM   #23 (permalink)
Junkie
 
You're making a fundamental, and common mistake, in asking such a question.

It's like asking "Sand dunes - what's the use?"

Your question is predicated upon the assumption that the existance, development, evolution of an organism has some kind of goal or purpose in mind. This is entirely untrue. Organisms evolve to fill ecological and environmental niches.

You will find that all flies are members of the order Diptera, one of the four largest orders of life (with over 150,000 known species). The only areas on Earth where flies are not naturally occuring are the artic and antartic poles. If you are particularly interested in flies, check out http://www.inhs.uiuc.edu/cee/FLYTREE/.

Now back to the question at hand. What are flies good for? Well, on a basic level, they are "useful" for the transmission of their own genes; a fundamental attribute common to all known living organisms (and virii, if you choose not to clasify a virus as living). You specifically mention you didn't ask "what good are flies to humans?", so that's about as accurate an answer as you'll get.

What "good" are clouds?
What "good" are humans? :-)


Mr Mephisto
Mephisto2 is offline  
Old 08-26-2004, 11:33 AM   #24 (permalink)
Indifferent to anti-matter
 
vermin's Avatar
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
They keep the frogs fat and happy. What, you don't like frogs?
__________________
If puns were sausages, this would be the wurst.
vermin is offline  
Old 08-31-2004, 08:00 PM   #25 (permalink)
Upright
 
As Mr Mephisto noted, evolution doesn't happen for a purpose, it happens just because it can. The question "What is something good for?" is a question about a part of the integration of an organism in an ecological system.
It's gonna be hard to find an organism that isn't good for anything, if you count in what it's good for after its dead, because organisms will evolve that feed on it's body. Even virii are good for something besides replicating themselves, in that they kill people, which then can be soil for trees.

Lets construct a theoretical organism that is not good for anything.

(1) it must either not be mortal, or in the event of death destroy itself so completely on it's own that it's not viable for other organisms to either
- use the energy in their dead bodies
- capture the energy that gets free when they destroy themselves
It might seem like this is a gene that would have developed if it could have, because it prevents predators from hunting you. However, I believe, often that future generations are actually dependent on the dead bodies of their ancestors. Also I cannot imagine an easy mechanism to acomplish this.

(2) it must either
- not kill any organisms
- or destroy them as completely as described above

(3) the energy sources it feeds on,
- must not rely on being fed on,
- by the organism being fed on, no niche for other organisms may develop
- any energy used, must be used completely, no byproducts (i.e. excrements) may be a source of energy to another organism.

(4) it must still compete with other organisms to be the most efficient organism to fill the niche
For example: If it was more efficient not to shit reusable material, we wouldn't do it, but use the energy. Thus unlikely.

I believe I could go on, but I think the point is made: This is not something that would develop in an evolutionary process like there is on earth. There is no "useless" organism by that definition. Humans and virii come closest though. *sniff* ;]

Last edited by fuqnbastard; 08-31-2004 at 08:05 PM..
fuqnbastard is offline  
Old 09-01-2004, 01:08 AM   #26 (permalink)
Oh shit it's Wayne Brady!
 
CityOfAngels's Avatar
 
Location: Passenger seat of Wayne Brady's car.
They exist to bug the shiat outta me whenever I eat.
If it's not the flies, it's the cat.
If it's not the cat, it's my mom.
CityOfAngels is offline  
Old 09-01-2004, 01:53 AM   #27 (permalink)
Loser
 
The related and more important question is - what good are wasps?

Bees have a couple of uses (pollination + honey) which outweighs their drawbacks (stinging people, followed by their own much deserved death).

Wasps, though they may do some small percentage of pollination could easily be replaced by a few more bees in the world. Meanwhile, wasps can sting multiple times and then fly on their merry way. Laughing at you, I might add.

And to top it off - they can, if they so choose, fly with complete silence! Subterfuge!


If wasps are not irrefutable proof of the Devil, I don't know what is.
OpieCunningham is offline  
Old 09-01-2004, 05:46 AM   #28 (permalink)
Junkie
 
powerclown's Avatar
 
Location: Detroit, MI
It's said that every time a fly lands on you, it both shits & vomits on you as well.
No link, sorry.
powerclown is offline  
Old 09-16-2004, 05:22 PM   #29 (permalink)
Squid
 
MikeyChalupa's Avatar
 
Location: USS George Washington
I call this poem "Flies".

Flies.
We find them everywhere, buzzing all around.
There's buzzing when a fly is up, and when a fly is down.
They come to dinner, uninvited, landing in our soup,
Where they deposit teeny tiny microscopic poop.
You'll find dead flies on a Chevette dashboard, or Mercedes Benz.
Flies are not very nice. Flies are not our friends.

Flies start out as little maggots, in the garbage bin.
Flies eat discarded yucky things, like rotten chicken skin.
A fly'd get nasty things, if a fly got what it wished.
Like bloated stinky rotten pungent reeking rancid fish.
Flies don't care if they're on your front, or on your back end.
Flies are not very nice. Flies are not our friends.

Flies show up uninvited in every locality
To have a heapin' helpin' of your hospitality.
You'll find them sitting on the ceiling, or walking on the walls.
You'll find flies buzzing around a man's hairy sweaty... head.
Flies like dirty diapers, and grandpa's used Depends.
Flies are not very nice. Flies are not our friends.

Flies like the steamy stench of restrooms, and a horse stable.
But there's nothing that a fly likes more than Tommy and Rumble.
I'd never hurt a ladybug, it's flies I can't defend.
Flies are not very nice. Flies are not our friends.

Flies are not very nice. Flies are not our friends.
I can't stress this any more, but flies are not our friends.
Flies flies flies flies flies flies flies,
Flies flies flies flies flies .
Add Heidi, and another "s", and that spells Heidi Fliess.
But that does not change the fact that
Flies are not very nice. Flies are not our friends.

--Chuck the Intern from "Tommy and Rumble", the best morning show in Hampton Roads.


-Mikey
MikeyChalupa is offline  
Old 10-02-2004, 11:45 PM   #30 (permalink)
Upright
 
Nothing has to be good for anything. Any living thing is alive through a series of evolutionary steps that basically kept it ahead of the game. As long as something is well suited for its environment it will thrive, it doesn't need a "job". In fact, its job, and the job of all living things, is to reproduce. Thats all there is to life, to make more little useless things to amuze whatever higher power is watching us for entertainment...
CHollman82 is offline  
Old 10-03-2004, 07:57 PM   #31 (permalink)
Lennonite Priest
 
pan6467's Avatar
 
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
Mosquitoes are the ones I truly see no need in having or why they exist except that the disease they pass on helps with population control.

Maggots serve a purpose as described above and are needed. Plus, flies don't live very long.
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"
pan6467 is offline  
Old 10-03-2004, 11:09 PM   #32 (permalink)
If you've read this, PM me and say so
 
Location: Sitting on my ass, and you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Mephisto
What "good" are clouds?
Clouds bring water to areas where water can't get to. Thus helping establish life in places away from the immediate vicinity of water.
slimshaydee is offline  
Old 10-05-2004, 10:09 PM   #33 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimshaydee
Clouds bring water to areas where water can't get to. Thus helping establish life in places away from the immediate vicinity of water.
You're kidding, right?


Mr Mephisto
Mephisto2 is offline  
Old 10-07-2004, 02:24 PM   #34 (permalink)
Psycho
 
vox_rox's Avatar
 
Location: Comfy Little Bungalow
What good is man?

In our quest to understand everything around us, we never fail to place labels such as good/bad, beautiful/evil etc., yet these terms mean nothing except to us and in our context. In the context of the intricate clock called planet earth, there is no ugliness, no beauty, no evil. There is only constantly evolving life to fill the places in nature that need such a thing. They are not here for us, to be judged by us, to be USED by us, and especially not to be understood by us. Only to exist beside us.

We are not superior to any other creature, and there existence does not require our authorization. They live, we live.

The one big difference is that there is not another organism on this planet that is destroying the planet, only humans do that. Now who's evil?
vox_rox is offline  
 

Tags
flies

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:40 AM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360