Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > Interests > Tilted Gaming


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-20-2005, 08:40 AM   #1 (permalink)
Canadian Beer Ambassador
 
Location: Cumming, GA
Xbox 2 Internal Reveal Today

One of my buddies said that today they have a meeting where they are unveiling Xbox 2 to product managers, as well as revealing the name of it.

Rumors I have heard:

1) Wireless remotes. (WHOO HOO!)
2) On/Off button on the controllers, not just the box. Seriously, I have a remote for my TV and stereo, but not my Xbox???
3) Unfortunately I have heard conflicting reports about backwards compatibility. I am not sure if the decision has been made.
4) Q4 Release, before Christmas.
5) Various models will be available for release.. One with a HDD, one without.. I have heard online storage will be available instead of the HDD..


Anyone else have any rumors they can share??
__________________
Take Off Eh!
theburner is offline  
Old 01-20-2005, 09:20 AM   #2 (permalink)
Psycho
 
Wingless's Avatar
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Mich, USA
Does no good for us regular consumers though...

But I have heard alot about the multiple X-Box 2 (Xenon?) models, such as having PVR capabilities, etc etc. Personally I think they should let the XB2 do what its predecessor was built to do - PLAY VIDEO GAMES! Once you get that right, move on and let the box evolve
__________________
Tommy
Nibs is a funny word.
So here I am, above palm trees, so straight and tall...
You are, smaller getting smaller, but I still see... you.

Jimmy Eat World - Goodbye Sky Harbor
Wingless is offline  
Old 01-20-2005, 10:46 AM   #3 (permalink)
Rawr!
 
skier's Avatar
 
Location: Edmontania
but... but... what about my cupholder?
__________________
"Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim
skier is offline  
Old 01-20-2005, 11:01 AM   #4 (permalink)
Getting it.
 
Charlatan's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
Just push the big button in the middle and viola... cupholder!
__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke
Charlatan is offline  
Old 01-20-2005, 11:37 AM   #5 (permalink)
Addict
 
braisler's Avatar
 
Location: Midway, KY
Anybody want to take bets on how long before Xbox-2 has been modded?
braisler is offline  
Old 01-20-2005, 12:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
Knight of the Old Republic
 
Lasereth's Avatar
 
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Rumors mean just about nothing in the videogame business. I thought that the backwards compatibility was official though? From the first time XBox 2 was even planned I remember Microsoft stating that there is officially no backwards compatibility between XBox 1 and 2. This may have changed in the past months.

I know that the HDD versions is not a rumor either. There will be three versions of XBox 2. One with the HDD, one without, and another that's basically a home PC that plays XBox games as well.

-Lasereth
__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert
Lasereth is offline  
Old 01-20-2005, 04:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
big damn hero
 
guthmund's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lasereth
Rumors mean just about nothing in the videogame business. I thought that the backwards compatibility was official though? From the first time XBox 2 was even planned I remember Microsoft stating that there is officially no backwards compatibility between XBox 1 and 2. This may have changed in the past months.

-Lasereth

I hope they've changed their minds. One of the reasons I like my ps2 so much is the fact that it's backwards compatable. I've read things (and like you said 'rumors mean nothing') that the new playstation will be backwards compatable as well.

If Sony goes ahead and Microsoft leaves it behind, I guess I'll be picking up the new playstation first.
__________________
No signature. None. Seriously.
guthmund is offline  
Old 01-20-2005, 04:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
Getting Medieval on your ass
 
Coppertop's Avatar
 
Location: 13th century Europe
Damn, and here's me who just got his Xbox last week. Always behind the console curve it would seem. At least it was free.
Coppertop is offline  
Old 01-20-2005, 08:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
C'mon, just blow it.
 
hulk's Avatar
 
Location: Perth, Australia
The problem with X-Box backwards compatability, is it's essentially the same as getting a PC game to run well on a Mac. You need about four to five times the processing power to do it well, unless you have amazingly good hardware acceleration support, something the Mac/PC emulators (the best of which Microsoft bought to use their techonology in the X-Box 2) haven't managed to reach yet.
__________________
"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.
hulk is offline  
Old 01-20-2005, 08:31 PM   #10 (permalink)
Loser
 
Location: McDonald's Playland
I can't wait for the xbox2 to come out!! it'll be faster and more powerful, plus the graphics will be incredible
pinoychink790 is offline  
Old 01-20-2005, 10:35 PM   #11 (permalink)
big damn hero
 
guthmund's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hulk
The problem with X-Box backwards compatability, is it's essentially the same as getting a PC game to run well on a Mac. You need about four to five times the processing power to do it well, unless you have amazingly good hardware acceleration support, something the Mac/PC emulators (the best of which Microsoft bought to use their techonology in the X-Box 2) haven't managed to reach yet.
But why? Macs and PCs are very different from each other (architecture, blah blah blah) this is the same company updating it's own console.

I mean, I haven't seen any specifications, but isn't it just a PC in a box? I have been through 3 different PCs and can still play the vast majority of the games I bought 4-5 years ago? Is it a software/coding/have no idea what kind of problem problem?

I have to say that no backwards compatablity on the new x-box just doesn't make much sense. The popularity of the gameboy and it's incarnations is due, I think, in large part to the fact that it's backwards compatable. The ps2 was nice and the games are fantastic, but I really like the fact that all my old Final Fantasy games are still playable. It just doesn't seem to be good business sense to cull off the original x-box buying base and start from scratch with a whole new console. There are still a ton of fantastic x-box games with healthy shelf life. Do they really expect us to buy another console and sit it next to the previous console?

I don't know. I'm no expert, but I would think that Microsoft would want to build on the consumer base it's built over the last couple of years instead of sloughing them off and start from scratch.
__________________
No signature. None. Seriously.
guthmund is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 05:42 AM   #12 (permalink)
C'mon, just blow it.
 
hulk's Avatar
 
Location: Perth, Australia
It's not a matter of a business choice, it's the fact that the hardware is incompatible.

The X-Box 2 is using a PowerPC G5 RISC (reduced instruction set chip). The X-Box used a Pentium III CISC (complex instruction set chip). That's the dinger right there, to get anything based on a CISC to run on a RISC, or vice versa, requires a whole crapload of reverse programming. Even so, it's still extremely inefficient. For example, Mac OSX runs at about 5% speed in emultion on a PC, and Windows runs at about 50% speed on a Mac.

And yes, they expect you to buy another whole new console. People with X-Box games generally have the X-Box to go with it, it won't automatically stop working once they get the next one along.
__________________
"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.
hulk is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 05:57 AM   #13 (permalink)
Psycho
 
Location: NC
Three versions of one console? Are they asking people to not purchase? I mean geez...I would wait just to make sure I didn't mess up and buy the wrong one.

Can anything with Microsoft be simple?
__________________
The sad thing is... as you get older you come to realize that you don't so much pilot your life, as you just try to hold on, in a screaming, defiant ball of white-knuckle anxious fury
mr sticky is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 06:47 AM   #14 (permalink)
Canadian Beer Ambassador
 
Location: Cumming, GA
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr sticky
Three versions of one console? Are they asking people to not purchase? I mean geez...I would wait just to make sure I didn't mess up and buy the wrong one.

Can anything with Microsoft be simple?
You have to remember Gates big push is to integrate your PC into your home theater. This is the vehicle he thinks will accomplish this. Don't forget that this is the guy that bought WebTV, so he does have plans for the Xbox.

My bet is eventually the Xbox (or a derivative) will end up providing for a Music Interface (preload your cd's into a HDD in the xbox), PVR (Xbox already has a HDD, all you would need would be the software), DVD Player (Ok, it already has that capability), gaming, email (Xbox live is already providing some of that functionality), voicemail, VOIP (again, Xbox live is already doing this to a certain extent) and maybe even TV over IP (he is already exploring this).

I think we are seeing a HUGE push to consolidate all of those black boxes you have hanging off your TV.
__________________
Take Off Eh!
theburner is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 08:06 AM   #15 (permalink)
Psycho
 
Wingless's Avatar
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Mich, USA
Another thing about XB2 backwords compatibility is that I bet Microsoft believes that everyone who wants to play X-Box games already has an X-Box. (Duh). Kind of like the new PStwo, Sony figured that if you already had a PS2, you don't have a need for the PStwo.

Umm yeah, time for class...
__________________
Tommy
Nibs is a funny word.
So here I am, above palm trees, so straight and tall...
You are, smaller getting smaller, but I still see... you.

Jimmy Eat World - Goodbye Sky Harbor
Wingless is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 08:29 AM   #16 (permalink)
C'mon, just blow it.
 
hulk's Avatar
 
Location: Perth, Australia
Quote:
Originally Posted by theburner
You have to remember Gates big push is to integrate your PC into your home theater. This is the vehicle he thinks will accomplish this. Don't forget that this is the guy that bought WebTV, so he does have plans for the Xbox.

My bet is eventually the Xbox (or a derivative) will end up providing for a Music Interface (preload your cd's into a HDD in the xbox), PVR (Xbox already has a HDD, all you would need would be the software), DVD Player (Ok, it already has that capability), gaming, email (Xbox live is already providing some of that functionality), voicemail, VOIP (again, Xbox live is already doing this to a certain extent) and maybe even TV over IP (he is already exploring this).

I think we are seeing a HUGE push to consolidate all of those black boxes you have hanging off your TV.
That's right, a huge push to remove that nasty competition. I mean, why buy a new CD player/DVD player/Computer when the big ol' box does it all for you?
__________________
"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.
hulk is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 08:57 AM   #17 (permalink)
This vexes me. I am terribly vexed.
 
Superbelt's Avatar
 
Location: Grantville, Pa
So, what will the new XBOX be using for a medium? Will they go to High Definition DVD?
If they are, what format did they pick? HD-DVD or Blue Ray?
I know Blue Ray is a product of Sony, Pioneer, Panasonic, Hewlett-Packard
and HD-DVD is Toshiba and NEC.

From what I have read Blue Ray is the betamax. Better tech, less exposure than the VHS of the fight, HD-DVD.

Playstation will obviously go Blue Ray, If X-Box goes with that standard as well, I think we can easily assume that the format war will be over barely after it started.
Superbelt is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 12:31 PM   #18 (permalink)
Ravenous
 
wolf's Avatar
 
Location: Right Behind You
I heard this is going to be incredible. Unfortunately the wife and I just bought a house, so this is probably going to have to wait until Christmas 2006.
__________________
Thousands of years ago, cats were worshipped as Gods. Cats have never forgotten this.
wolf is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 01:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
Canadian Beer Ambassador
 
Location: Cumming, GA
Hulk

You just nailed the motivation. Gates is trying to position himself so that every house will have a "Gates 3000" running it. Working the lights, the climate control.. etc.. I can see it now.
__________________
Take Off Eh!
theburner is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 02:39 PM   #20 (permalink)
big damn hero
 
guthmund's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hulk
It's not a matter of a business choice, it's the fact that the hardware is incompatible.

The X-Box 2 is using a PowerPC G5 RISC (reduced instruction set chip). The X-Box used a Pentium III CISC (complex instruction set chip). That's the dinger right there, to get anything based on a CISC to run on a RISC, or vice versa, requires a whole crapload of reverse programming. Even so, it's still extremely inefficient. For example, Mac OSX runs at about 5% speed in emultion on a PC, and Windows runs at about 50% speed on a Mac.
All I needed to know. I hadn't planned on reading anything on it until the actual reveal to the public. You know rumors being what they are and all. Thanks for the information.

Quote:
And yes, they expect you to buy another whole new console. People with X-Box games generally have the X-Box to go with it, it won't automatically stop working once they get the next one along.
And straight into jackass.... No kidding they expect you to buy a whole new console. The point I was trying to make, albeit poorly, is what's the incentive to buy new X-box games when the New X-box console is shown to the public? Will there be no new game releases after the public reveal of the new console? If there are, what's the incentive to go out and buy the new games when a new console, which can't play any of them, is soon to be released? Why would I spend $50 on a new game when the new system (and all that goes with it) is going cost a nice big chunk of change just to get started?

Not to mention the fact that the x-box isn't petite and the new one is less likely to be so. So, once I shell out hundreds of dollars, now I have to find space for two of these behemoths (because I still want to play Halo 2, right?)on my shelf along with a ps2, a gamecube, cable/sat box and et cetera?

I know, I know makes good 'business' sense, but I prefer to see it from the point of the gamer and, all things considered, it looks like the gamer is getting screwed again. New console, new games, new extra controllers that have to be bought and DVD kits to purchase all at a nice hefty pricetag. Great for Microsoft and bad for the consumer, but it's pretty, no?

By the way, should I unplug my old x-box from x-box live before they get the 'next one along' to keep it operative? Should I unplug it from the wall or duct tape the ethernet port? I really want to make sure the old x-box isn't 'shut down' by Microsoft once the new x-box comes out.
__________________
No signature. None. Seriously.
guthmund is offline  
Old 01-21-2005, 11:45 PM   #21 (permalink)
C'mon, just blow it.
 
hulk's Avatar
 
Location: Perth, Australia
Tinfoil hats will help =) In all honesty, I don't think Microsoft will suddenly stop supporting the X-Box. If the fact that the PSOne outsells them in Japan tells them anything, it's that there's a market for older consoles. Nintendo plans to continue supporting the GameCube, Sony plans to carry on with the PSTwo, Microsoft may be the spawn of Satan, but they're not stupid.
__________________
"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.
hulk is offline  
Old 01-23-2005, 06:12 AM   #22 (permalink)
Canadian Beer Ambassador
 
Location: Cumming, GA
one of the big problems my buddy came up with was how to use Live across both platforms. Honestly, he had no clue how they were going to do this. I informed him that I would be upset losing my "name" on Live if they come out with a different version for Xbox2.

FYI: MS is keeping the development VERY compartmentalized. My bungie buddy has only ever seen a G5 with a suped up graphics card. To him, that is the Xbox 2.. My other buddy is in charge of "producing" the 3rd party games MS publishes. So, some of my info will be off because my buddies themselves are working off of rumors, even in the MS offices.

Hulk: I agree, MS would be committing suicide if they stop supporting Xbox and Live for Xbox when Xbox2 comes out. However, as I stated above, it won't be cost efficent for them to run 2 Live "services".
__________________
Take Off Eh!
theburner is offline  
Old 01-23-2005, 06:23 AM   #23 (permalink)
C'mon, just blow it.
 
hulk's Avatar
 
Location: Perth, Australia
To be honest, it wasn't cost efficient for them to enter the market in the first place Has their attempt to pwn the market turned profitable yet?
__________________
"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.
hulk is offline  
Old 01-24-2005, 06:21 AM   #24 (permalink)
Canadian Beer Ambassador
 
Location: Cumming, GA
Not sure.. I can ask. My bungie buddy's wife works in Xbox finance division so I am sure she would know. I know the Halo2 sales sure haven't hurt the profitability of the Xbox division, but if they count that as anything more than a one time deal (well, at least every 3 years!) they are crazy.

My buddies wife told me about a year ago that they would throw internal parties for the finance division when they would "minimize" their losses. Not make money, just lose less than the month before.
__________________
Take Off Eh!
theburner is offline  
Old 01-24-2005, 07:10 AM   #25 (permalink)
Knight of the Old Republic
 
Lasereth's Avatar
 
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Quote:
Originally Posted by hulk
The problem with X-Box backwards compatability, is it's essentially the same as getting a PC game to run well on a Mac. You need about four to five times the processing power to do it well, unless you have amazingly good hardware acceleration support, something the Mac/PC emulators (the best of which Microsoft bought to use their techonology in the X-Box 2) haven't managed to reach yet.
Everyone is arguing about backwards compatibility but the main technical issue is going undiscussed. Just because a system is backwards compatible doesn't mean the next-gen system has to be redesigned.

Do you know how Sony allowed the PS2 to be BC with the PS1? Let's go over the possible solutions.

1. Engineer the new system to play PS1 games.

2. PUT A PS1 INSIDE THE PS2.

Sony chose number 2. They built an entire PS1 console inside the PS2. It's sole purpose was the famed backwards compatibility. Did it work? Hell yeah it did, even improving the graphics in some games with the other system's power.

Microsoft could put a barebones XBox system inside the XBox 2 if they wanted to. Sony fit a PS1 into a PS2 with ease so Microsoft has the engineers, money, and time to make it happen. Will they? Like I said, I know I've read at a dozen places in the past 2 or 3 years that Microsoft has officially labelled backwards compatibility on the XBox 2 as: DENIED!

-Lasereth
__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert
Lasereth is offline  
Old 01-25-2005, 05:27 PM   #26 (permalink)
Crazy
 
Quote:
Rumor Control: Xbox Next launch date...
http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/01...s_6116926.html

pretty interresting read... unofficially.
Ruse is offline  
Old 01-26-2005, 08:23 AM   #27 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Location: NC
I dont think backwards compatibility is a big issue, most people who want is already have the previous system.
he_haha is offline  
Old 01-27-2005, 11:45 AM   #28 (permalink)
Canadian Beer Ambassador
 
Location: Cumming, GA
I wonder if backwards compatibility will be available as an additional cost?

ie: Basic Xbox 2.. $299
Xbox 2 w/ HDD $399
Xbox 2 / backwards compatibility $499

Hmmmmmmmmmmm
__________________
Take Off Eh!
theburner is offline  
Old 01-31-2005, 10:20 AM   #29 (permalink)
Psycho
 
crossova's Avatar
 
Location: new york
the wireless controllers are cool. i wouldnt want a power button on my controller though....i can see me now accidentaly turning off the console when i meant to pause the game.
crossova is offline  
Old 01-31-2005, 09:37 PM   #30 (permalink)
Tilted
 
i hope they don't make people buy a dvd remote for the new x-box.
lk_3000 is offline  
Old 01-31-2005, 10:01 PM   #31 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: San Diego
All I ask is that they make it with a little more quality. My XBOX and both of my roommates XBOX's broke around a month after the warranty expired. Somehow I knew I would see the "blue screen of death" on an XBOX.
__________________
If something seems too good to be true, then it probably is....
punx1325 is offline  
Old 02-01-2005, 06:38 AM   #32 (permalink)
Canadian Beer Ambassador
 
Location: Cumming, GA
lk_3000

I was blasting my buddy about that about a year ago, and his response was:

"we are losing about $100 per Xbox, the add on remote is just a way for us to help offset our losses"

I was also giving him crap about the headsets. At the time, you could get a badass Plantronics Cell Phone headset for $20 (which I did) while you had to pay almost $30 for an MS one. His response was also the same.

Sidenote: MS just announced that their game division turned its first quarterly profit q4 2004. My response was go figure, Halo 2 sold over 6 million copies. My take on this is that MS won't turn another profit unless one of 2 things happen:
1) They beat Sony to market with the Xbox2
2) They release a version of Halo every quarter.
__________________
Take Off Eh!
theburner is offline  
Old 02-01-2005, 01:54 PM   #33 (permalink)
Psycho
 
crossova's Avatar
 
Location: new york
lol @ halo every quarter...we waited about 3yrs just for a sequel..and i doubt the trilogy will be out this fall *sigh*

i was looking at engadget.com, they had an article about the X2 and how little is known about it...i pasted the article below.

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Microsoft Corp. will not unveil the next generation of its Xbox video game console at the Game Developers Conference in March, the company said on Monday.

Citing a conversation with Microsoft (Research) management, American Technology Research analyst P.J. McNealy said the company was more likely to take the wraps off its new console in May at the broader Electronic Entertainment Expo in Los Angeles.

A Microsoft spokeswoman confirmed McNealy's report that the new Xbox would not be shown off at GDC.

As opposed to E3, which takes in publishers, marketers and retailers, GDC is aimed more narrowly at game developers. It was at GDC five years ago that Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates unveiled the original Xbox.

The new Xbox, code-named "Xenon," is widely expected within the industry to launch later this year. Microsoft has said little publicly about it, though, and on a conference call last week suggested there would be little news until E3.

Last week Microsoft cited strong sales of its "Halo 2" video game for the Xbox as one of the key drivers of its financial results for the December quarter.
crossova is offline  
Old 02-01-2005, 02:58 PM   #34 (permalink)
Psycho
 
jonjon42's Avatar
 
Location: inside my own mind
I wonder why they code named it the same as a processor they are not using...
and yes the xbox-2 will kill the pc in a box w/ nice gfx card....now it's going to be a g5 in a box with a nice gpu. heehee

anyway, about ms games division financially... to the best of my knowledge (I admit it isn't much) xbox is still leaking money like crazy, although the leakage has been slowing. It would help if xbox actually could get a few more big titles that a.) haven't already been released to pc or b.) aren't being launched across the board.
Halo and Halo2 are their 2 bright spots...now time to innovate...or just buy another game company...

edit: oh and I have some doubts about release by christmas.
and second thought, they better damn well end the giant controller of death...I don't care what the controller can do, if it is too big for my little asian hands...no money for you..
__________________
A damn dirty hippie without the dirty part....

Last edited by jonjon42; 02-01-2005 at 03:01 PM..
jonjon42 is offline  
Old 02-02-2005, 08:42 AM   #35 (permalink)
Insane
 
sony has stated that they will reveal ps3 very soon and hopefully have it playable for the coming E3

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multime...128112857.html
blar is offline  
Old 02-03-2005, 02:36 AM   #36 (permalink)
C'mon, just blow it.
 
hulk's Avatar
 
Location: Perth, Australia
On that note, the 'cube follower will be out in E3, too =) Should be a good show.
__________________
"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.
hulk is offline  
Old 02-03-2005, 06:31 AM   #37 (permalink)
Canadian Beer Ambassador
 
Location: Cumming, GA
JonJon42

They are still losing money on the Xbox itself, but with the sales of Halo2 the Games Division finally turned a profit. Don't forget, the games division handles all the PC games too. Gates bundled all the PC games, Console, Console Games, and Console Hardware into the same division in the hopes of offsetting the losses of the Xbox.

One problem I forsee with this is now that EA has signed up for Live, MS has dropped many of their sports titles. I am not sure how much of a money maker these were for Xbox, but they have lost that income now.
__________________
Take Off Eh!
theburner is offline  
 

Tags
internal, reveal, today, xbox

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:35 AM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360