Same-Sex Marriage Bill likely to Pass today. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Charlatan · 06-28-2005, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Minister may quit

Grit hints at exit over same-sex bill

By KATHLEEN HARRIS, Ottawa Bureau
OTTAWA -- Tears, fears and the spectre of a cabinet minister's resignation marked the dying hours of parliamentary debate on same-sex marriage.

As Conservative Leader Stephen Harper questioned the legitimacy of a bill supported by the separatist Bloc Quebcois, Minister of State Joe Comuzzi hinted he could quit cabinet to vote against his government's contentious bill.

"My final vote on C-38 will be based on the legislation before me and will be clear at the time of the vote," Comuzzi, junior minister in charge of Ontario's northern affairs, said in a statement.

Comuzzi will remain an MP and plans to seek re-election as a Liberal, but his potential resignation from cabinet would be an image blow to the Paul Martin camp.

Emotions were running high on Parliament Hill yesterday with final debate on historic legislation to alter the traditional definition of marriage. Joy Smith, a Conservative MP from Manitoba, broke down in tears as she lashed out in the House of Commons.

"Making a law that will cause marriage to just go away by the stroke of a pen late at night and probably some time this week is wrong. It is wrong to do that," she said. "I am baffled as to why Bill C-38 is in this Parliament."

Conservative MP Maurice Vellacott called it "abhorrent" and "reprehensible" that the PM is cracking the whip on his cabinet, while Bloc Quebcois MP Real Menard said denying same-sex couples the right to marry amounts to "institutionalized homophobia."

Liberal MP Tom Wappel took a swipe at his own party for tabling a "scandalous" piece of legislation. "This entire bill reeks of hypocrisy, political motivation and selective legal reasoning," he fumed.

Outside the Commons, a resigned Harper suggested the Liberals' reliance on the BQ to pass the bill won't sit well with Canadians.

"The truth is most federalist MPs oppose this," he said.

EQUAL WEIGHT

But Martin insisted votes of elected MPs have equal weight in Canada.

"Quebecers in a number of ridings voted for the Bloc, and those MPs represent their constituents," he said. "They have the right to speak in the House of Commons, and they have the right to vote, and their votes count as much as any other member of Parliament."

Regardless of where you stand on this debate I find the politics of all this amazing... especially given all that has happened through the spring.

This response from a Conservative MP:

Quote:

"Making a law that will cause marriage to just go away by the stroke of a pen late at night and probably some time this week is wrong. It is wrong to do that," she said. "I am baffled as to why Bill C-38 is in this Parliament."

Does she really believe that marriage is just going to go away? If anything, more people will be able to get married thereby increasing the number of "legit" marriages. This should make the family values types crow with satisfaction.

Harper continues to amaze me with zingers like this:

Quote:

...a resigned Harper suggested the Liberals' reliance on the BQ to pass the bill won't sit well with Canadians.

1. let's alienate Quebequois even further by suggesting that they have no voice in the Federal state, 2. let's fan the flames in certain parts of English Canada that believe the Quebequois are not really part of Canada and 3. Wasn't he, just a couple of weeks ago, leaning on BQ support to help bring down the government? So now that they aren't voting his way he get's to say that their vote is some how tainted... How absolutely hypocritical.

I think this is called grasping at straws... or maybe tainting the waters as you go down for the third time.

This is not how you gain trust and support from the rest of the nation.

In the end, the bill has the support of the majority in Parliament and it will pass. And while there are many who will winge and rail against this legislation, generations to come will wonder what all the fuss was about and wonder (much in the same way we wonder about why women weren't allowed to vote) why it took so long to recognize this basic human right.

filtherton · 06-28-2005, 08:40 AM

Yeah, it will be nice if your southern neighbors can have something tangible to point at in terms of legalized gay marriage and say, "see, you're full of shit, the sky didn't fall, and marriage still exists" to every person who pretends that gays marrying is a threat to hetero marriage.

the_marq · 06-28-2005, 09:03 AM

Fuck I will be so glad when this is out of the news and no longer an issue.

trache · 06-29-2005, 05:40 AM

Sites like the following make me sick to my stomach:
http://www.marriagecanada.ca/
http://sanctityofmarriage.ca/

and statements like this: http://www.frc.org/index.cfm?i=IF03H01&f=WU03L06
make me want to punch someone in the nose.

/my two cents
//flame on

OFKU0 · 06-29-2005, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Harper continues to amaze me with zingers. Wasn't he, just a couple of weeks ago, leaning on BQ support to help bring down the government? So now that they aren't voting his way he get's to say that their vote is some how tainted... How absolutely hypocritical.

Come on Charlatan, you can do better than that. It's hot but not hot enough to make delusional statements like that.

Yes the opposition with the help of the Bloc tried to defeat the budget. But guess what, that's the role of the opposition. Although we have a Liberal government in place in no way means the Liberals are Canada's party. Hardly, just look at the seats held by the Tories and the rest of the Commons.

What is hypocritical though is that an infrequent measure of the Bloc supporting the Tories, or being in bed with them as the media blathered about, ranks worse than the Bloc constantly being in bed with the Liberals? Hmmm, didn't hear from every news source that the Bloc sided, or jumped back into bed with the Liberals for the same sex vote. Wonder why.

Maybe Harper should have used nonsensical phrases such as, "same sex marriage will destroy Canada as we know it" or "a vote for same sex marriage will destroy national unity." But I think Martin has trademarked such idiocy for the herds of fucking stupid Canadians who believe such drivel.

It's not uncommon to blame Harper for ever nuance regarding everything political (Conservative and especially Liberal---funny eh, Liberals fuck Canada up the ass and Harper get's blamed for it everytime) while ignoring Martin and the plethora of inconsistencies that permiate the Liberal party, not to mention bold faced incompetencies to boot.

But this is Canada, the land where 10 second soundbites on t.v ad nauseum, especially from the lying Liberals win the day and are reflected in the masses who actually not only believe they have a clue as to what's going on, but repeat it with such ferverence that Chicken Little would be proud. Pretty fucking sad.

For the record, I support same sex marriage, hate all party's and politicians in tow, especially the Liberals, who have perfected the art of making stupid Canadians look and sound even more stupid.

Now for some serious stuff. Who wants to bet that on Canada Day, Martin mentions same sex marriages before telling the sheep we are the best country in the world. I'm offering 10-1 odds as of now.

Bigbird · 06-29-2005, 10:57 AM

i won't take that bet and i'll be glad when all this is over and done with.
For the record, I support same sex marriage also, what difference does it make for me who marries who.

Charlatan · 06-29-2005, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OFKU0

Come on Charlatan, you can do better than that. It's hot but not hot enough to make delusional statements like that.

Yes the opposition with the help of the Bloc tried to defeat the budget. But guess what, that's the role of the opposition. Although we have a Liberal government in place in no way means the Liberals are Canada's party. Hardly, just look at the seats held by the Tories and the rest of the Commons.

It is *not* the job of the opposition to bring down the govenment or even defeat the budget. It is there job to temper the debate by offering an opposing point of view. When what is being done by the govenment runs contrary to their party's platform. If that leads to bringing down the government that is another issue.

Harper's sour grapes over the BQ supporting this bill is just that, sour grapes. All he is doing is exacerbating the issue of Quebec seperation. I don't ascribe to Martin's arguement that Harper will mean the rending of Canada but if Harper continues to play this tune I may change my mind.

All Harper does by saying this is further convince the *many* voters in Quebec that he knows nothing about what matters to them. That he belittles their representation in the house of commons by suggesting that the rest of Canada would take issue with their representation in the house of commons.

Politically, it is a serious misstep in French/English relations... and I don't think Harper cares. It seems, he'd rather consolidate his Western base than pander to Ontario and Quebec and as such is staying the course.

You seem hung up on how Martin portrays Harper and seem convinced that those who don't vote for him are too stupid or too snowed by Martin's message. I don't see this at all.

The Canadian people do not trust Harper because his party (and by extension him) comes off as socially conservative. Fiscal conservatives are one thing but mess with the centrist position socially and you will be in hot water with the public.

On the opposite side of this, the NDP continually get's smeared as tax and spend despite being committed to balanced budgets.

This is politics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OFKU0

Now for some serious stuff. Who wants to bet that on Canada Day, Martin mentions same sex marriages before telling the sheep we are the best country in the world. I'm offering 10-1 odds as of now.

Of course he is going to say this... what leader wouldn't? If Harper were in power he would mention how he'd defended taditional marriage before telling the sheep we are the best county in the world.

It is the leader's job to say things like this. Would you rather he got up on Canada's birthday and said it all sucks and the country is in the shitter? That's the opposition's job, no?

OFKU0 · 06-29-2005, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

It is *not* the job of the opposition to bring down the govenment or even defeat the budget. It is there job to temper the debate by offering an opposing point of view.

Would you rather he got up on Canada's birthday and said it all sucks and the country is in the shitter? That's the opposition's job, no?

Your right, it is the the job to temper debate regarding the nation's affairs in all parlimentary precedings, and if you remember, Harper and the Tories were willing to work together and did with Martin and the Liberals, and were doing so through different Commons commitees until,.......good old Jack Layton stepped up to the plate, sold his NDP soul for a Liberal one and the Liberals said,..well we don't need the Tories anymore,..fuck 'em. But if you read the Globe and Mail, the details probably never made it to print.

To bad for Layton also. That 4.6 billion in social policy promised by Martin (yet another promise) will never see the light of day. Remember Chretien in '93 telling the masses that under Liberal rule, child poverty will be abolished, and among other things the GST and more support for women's groups, aboriginals etc etc etc. Never happened. Never will. But I digress.

Well Charlatan, tongue in cheek. I KNOW he will say that, best country,.....blah blah blah. And your right again, it is the oppositions position to say other wise,...and not to mention Canada's most senior corporate leaders say the same thing. Check out the Canadian Council Of Chief Executives. Some of them are the likes of Gordon Nixon of the Royal Bank, Dominic D'Alessandro Of Manulife Financial and one notable surprise, long time Liberal Paul Desmerais Jr. of Power Corp. They don't think things look to good for the future either. But I'll say it again, how many people really care?

highthief · 06-29-2005, 04:03 PM

1) Glad the bill passed. I find Harper's promise to "repeal the law" such a load of crap. He would really have little chance of repealing the law once it is in place given how many provinces and courts have already entrenched it.

2) Harper is an idiot - if the Conservatives really want a shot at making some headway the next election, then dump this clown and get someone like Bernard Lord in. Even Peter McKay would be fine. John Tory, whoever...

OFKU0 · 06-29-2005, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trache

Sites like the following make me sick to my stomach:
http://www.marriagecanada.ca/
http://sanctityofmarriage.ca/

I was about to indulge until I got to this paragraph

Quote:

The second is that homosexual relationships are harmful. Not only do they not provide the same benefits to society as heterosexual marriages, but their consequences are far more negative than positive.

,..then I didn't need to see anymore. Ya know I've met many homosexuals and a good friend of mine is gay, not to mention my sister also, and I'll tell you. I've never met a gay who earns less than 60k a year. Gay and fucking doing well.

Charlatan · 06-30-2005, 05:19 AM

I just read some the tripe found on those sites... I will say it again, future generations will shake their heads in disbelief...

streak_56 · 06-30-2005, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_marq

Fuck I will be so glad when this is out of the news and no longer an issue.

HELL YEA. There is no possible way for this not to pass and just get it over with.

streak_56 · 06-30-2005, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highthief

2) Harper is an idiot - if the Conservatives really want a shot at making some headway the next election, then dump this clown and get someone like Bernard Lord in. Even Peter McKay would be fine. John Tory, whoever...

Maybe we should ask for Joe Clark to come back....

ChasingAmy · 07-05-2005, 06:17 PM

The negative reaction to the passing of this bill is coming mainly from the religious sects. If not them it's the hardcare fucking narrow minded red neck idiots! It totally makes my blood boil.

People have the right. How does a homosexual marriage affect the union of "marriage"? How does a man joining another man in marriage change (or women) the world? It doesn't (unless things come down to the point where there is nothing but homosexual relationsips and no off spring are being created... etc etc... how likely is that?).

I could ramble some more. But I will sit back and chill.

=D

Cheers!

06-28-2005, 09:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
the_marq All hail the Mountain King Location: Black Mesa	Fuck I will be so glad when this is out of the news and no longer an issue. __________________ The Truth: Johnny Cash could have kicked Bruce Lee's ass if he wanted to. #3 in a series

06-29-2005, 05:40 AM	#4 (permalink)
trache Insane	Sites like the following make me sick to my stomach: http://www.marriagecanada.ca/ http://sanctityofmarriage.ca/ and statements like this: http://www.frc.org/index.cfm?i=IF03H01&f=WU03L06 make me want to punch someone in the nose. /my two cents //flame on __________________ "You looked at me as if I was eating runny eggs in slow motion." - Gord Downie of The Tragically Hip

06-29-2005, 04:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	1) Glad the bill passed. I find Harper's promise to "repeal the law" such a load of crap. He would really have little chance of repealing the law once it is in place given how many provinces and courts have already entrenched it. 2) Harper is an idiot - if the Conservatives really want a shot at making some headway the next election, then dump this clown and get someone like Bernard Lord in. Even Peter McKay would be fine. John Tory, whoever... __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

06-30-2005, 05:19 AM	#11 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I just read some the tripe found on those sites... I will say it again, future generations will shake their heads in disbelief... __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

07-05-2005, 06:17 PM	#14 (permalink)
ChasingAmy Single :) FFA Location: Prince George, British Columbia	The negative reaction to the passing of this bill is coming mainly from the religious sects. If not them it's the hardcare fucking narrow minded red neck idiots! It totally makes my blood boil. People have the right. How does a homosexual marriage affect the union of "marriage"? How does a man joining another man in marriage change (or women) the world? It doesn't (unless things come down to the point where there is nothing but homosexual relationsips and no off spring are being created... etc etc... how likely is that?). I could ramble some more. But I will sit back and chill. =D Cheers! __________________ Don't you know about the bird?

06-28-2005, 08:40 AM	#2 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Yeah, it will be nice if your southern neighbors can have something tangible to point at in terms of legalized gay marriage and say, "see, you're full of shit, the sky didn't fall, and marriage still exists" to every person who pretends that gays marrying is a threat to hetero marriage.

06-29-2005, 10:57 AM	#6 (permalink)
Bigbird Upright Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada	i won't take that bet and i'll be glad when all this is over and done with. For the record, I support same sex marriage also, what difference does it make for me who marries who.