Hmm, a canadian thread not about pot...

[Jam]

Election time is coming

Im old enough to vote now and apparently Im registered...

So umm I havent been following Canadian pollitics (American pollitics are more amusing)

anyways, thoughts suggestions pros cons arguments etc..

[Fly]

there are no pros....and many cons.....


the working man gets shafted, and on goes life.

sometimes....hard to swallow.



LIFE.......it's not a job,...it's an adventure.

[Ace_O_Spades]

I've decided to vote NDP, im sure that won't be a popular choice, but I just dont connect with the Tories or the Liberals.... I really respect Leyton's platform, and I think it would be a refreshing change... too bad they wont be in power though...

But, they never will if people always say "They aren't going to win so im not going to vote for them" so I give them my vote because I agree with what they say.

[Xirax]

I think if I can bother to get out and vote I'd vote NDP...we've given the conservatives and liberals plenty of time to mess up the place, why not give the NDP a chance this time 'round, eh? :-P

[shAzb0t]

Well, all I can say is that if Stephen Harper wins, I'm moving to Iceland.

[Jam]

crazy.. hows that marijuanna party doing? :P

[Chemical]

Yesterday I did my very best to piss of my uncle. I told him that I wasn't going to vote. You should have seen his face. He was telling me how I would be wasting my vote if I didn't use it. Well its also a waste if I just went out an randomly voted right?

I should sell my vote. For $500 any party can have my vote.

If a party would stop lying, lowered taxes, taxed the rich and gave to the poor, then maybe, just maybe they'd get my vote.

[Ace_O_Spades]

Originally posted by shAzb0t
Well, all I can say is that if Stephen Harper wins, I'm moving to Iceland.

Why? I'm curious...

I'd rather have him in power than Martin... I just can't trust the Liberals anymore.

[Kaos]

I'm still undecided, except that the one thing I know is that the Liberals are NOT getting my vote. Didn't get my vote last election either.

[Lassus]

Im prob gona be lynched for this, but here goes anyway.
I don’t care who is in power, I have never voted, and I am not sure
If I ever will. Platforms are where the biggest lies come out, If you ask me its all disgusting. From what I can see, 60 percent of all political figures are or were lawyers. (Where did I get those numbers?, damned if I know, but sounded like the right number to write down)
So, do I want a thieving bastard to be in power or do I want another thieving bastard to be in power? seems im damned either way. is there a lesser of two evils ? and if so who is it ?
There is but one political figure I admire atm (if I didn’t get lynched the first time here it comes)
Ralph Klein !!!!
It gives me hope to know that a school drop out with a drinking problem can run Alberta. Maybe just maybe there is hope for the average human being yet

you can do it Ralph, i dont care if your breath smells like whiskey!!!!!

[BonneFan]

I'm undecided, I voted Liberal in the Ontario provincial election since I am a Liberal at heart, however, Dalton has royally fuct it up since he took office. Its not fair to equate the provinical Liberals to the Federal Liberals....but geez...you can't trust anyone anymore.

The only thing I like about Steven Harpers platform is to change the tax bracket for $28K-39K (or so) salary earners down to the less then $27K bracket.

I may not have my numbers correct, but essentially 1st and 2nd tax bracket would be even steven....no pun intended.

Can the Liberals hold on? I dunno , to early to tell

[R3d]

my view on politics/elections.. you vote for the person who you dont think will fuck you over the most..

[laughter]

I'm surprised at how relatively popular the NDP is this election, especially among people who don't want the Conservatives to sell us out completely and are just sick of the Liberals.

I'm worried that they pander too much to special interest groups, though. It's hard to stay reasonable without alienating the fringe elements that their vote counts on.

[Bob Biter]

Paul Martin seems like he wants to up military spending and kiss the US's ass. I have big problems with that. At least Chretien let his feelings known when it came to international politics and didn't back down. However, as was pointed out, the Liberals have had their time. The Bloc will never be anything more than opposition, so that leaves the NDP and the Conservatives.

I'm undecided as to which I like the most.

[Thorn]

Originally posted by Ace_O_Spades
Why? I'm curious...

I'd rather have him in power than Martin... I just can't trust the Liberals anymore.

Because Harper is a Nazi. He wants to kiss up to the US even more. I think I heard he wants to increase the military's budget by 7 billion or something ridiculous like that.
We dont need a huge military. We have the rest of the world. Some comedian said it best (cant remember the name, and I'm paraphrasing quite a bit): "Our national anthem says it all. We stand on guard for thee. Translation: We'll watch the house while you're gone. And would it kill you to leave some beer in the fridge?"

[yeoyeo]

Canada needs a stronger military so we are not so dependant on the U.S to protect us.
Harper also says he will take measures to decriminalize marijuana just 5 grams as opposed to the liberals 15.

my note goes conservative

[Jam]

i really dont care about the legality of pot in the election.. i dont know anything at all about the partys but if one of them wants to just kiss the usa's ass then my vote is against them

[Charlatan]

Harper is a very dangerous man when it comes to the continuation of our history of progressive politics in Canada. Harper would love to see our system far more like the American system... privatize health care, cut taxes, cut services... he has suggested he might table abortion legislation in a second term. The Conservatives are just Reform with a different name.

The fact that the former leader of the PC Party, Joe Clark, is campaigning for the Liberals this time around should tell you a lot about who is running the Conservative Party.

[Yakk]

Originally posted by yeoyeo
Canada needs a stronger military so we are not so dependant on the U.S to protect us.

The invasion of Canada by conventional forces would be an act of insanity.

For any "rich" nation, invading Canada would be a rather silly proposition. The costs would be large, and the benefits small. By "rich", I mean G8.

For any poor nation, even with our relatively small military, we'd kick their ass. We "only" spend 1.1 of our GDP on the military, but that spending is more than the GDP of many nations on earth.

Lets have some fun. North Korea
For NK:

Military expenditures - dollar figure:

$5,217.4 million (FY02)

For Canada:

Military expenditures - dollar figure:

$7.861 billion (FY01/02)

NK spends 1/3 of its GDP on the military. Canada spends 1.1%. If hostilities started, who do you think would be able to ramp up their production faster?

About the only nations we are in danger from are nations like China: not a free country, yet with a reasonable sized economy. Other than China, the nation Canada is most in danger of invasion from is USA. If the USA chose to invade us, conventional weapons won't help.

I wouldn't mind a touch more spent on the military myself, but really, we aren't planning on invading anyone, and invading us is stupidity itself. Our military would be used for world stability and peacekeeping, realistically, and the occasional policing action.

The reason I'd be for a slight increase is I've always been overly paranoid. =) And, the military I suspect is a decent form of foriegn aid, with benefits.

Harper also says he will take measures to decriminalize marijuana just 5 grams as opposed to the liberals 15.

So, who wants to decriminalize marijuana period?

my note goes conservative

Do you mean vote?

The Liberals aren't perfect, but remember it was Liberal appointees who found the accounting problems and corruption. I do understand the need for a change of house: however, the conservatives are not a reasonable party to "change houses" to. Neither are the federally inexperienced NDP.

I want a minority government. I want representation-by-population voting system changes to be on the Canadian political table.

[Jam]

Im so confused... alright is it illegal to put my vote on ebay? lol ... j/k (unless its worth much to someone)

who should I vote for... so confused.. harpers bad I guess, sure sounds not good but theyre all bastards anyways

[splck]

Originally posted by Yakk


The Liberals aren't perfect, but remember it was Liberal appointees who found the accounting problems and corruption. I do understand the need for a change of house: however, the conservatives are not a reasonable party to "change houses" to. Neither are the federally inexperienced NDP.

So we reward the corrupt Liberals by placing them in power yet again? I dunno, but at this rate I'd be more than pleased to see them shown the door.

[Thorn]

As much as I hate the Liberals, they are doing a halfway decent job. We could have much worse. We arent knee deep in debt like we used to be because of them.

[Yakk]

Originally posted by splck
So we reward the corrupt Liberals by placing them in power yet again? I dunno, but at this rate I'd be more than pleased to see them shown the door.

Most of the misaccounted for money wasn't corruption. It was badly spent, and badly accounted for. That's evidence of incompetence. Was there some corruption? I'd bet there was: was it on a large scale? I don't believe it was.

Evidence of incompetence can be balanced with evidence of competence. The Liberals have done a decent job managing the Federal budget for the most part: services haven't been utterly destroyed, and they are running surplusses. And the Canadian economy is doing good.

The alternatives are worse. The Reform 3.0 party is no more acceptable than it was in the first two iterations: simply because they managed a hostile takeover of the PC party, doesn't make them any less kooks.

NDP could be good, but they need more seasoning.

So, I'm hoping for either a NDP/Conservative minority or a Liberal/NDP minority government. I'm afraid of a Conservative/Bloc minority government.

[Ace_O_Spades]

I whole heartedly agree with the comment about the military

It seems like one big pissing contest, who can have the hugest military....

If a hostile nation invaded Canada, they would face the fact that it is HUGE!!! Many people forget how massive canada is...

Secondly, the USA would protect its borders at all costs, and therefore would step in and lay the smack down

[floydthebarber]

Originally posted by Yakk
Most of the misaccounted for money wasn't corruption. It was badly spent, and badly accounted for. That's evidence of incompetence. Was there some corruption? I'd bet there was: was it on a large scale? I don't believe it was.

The fact that they spent our money badly and/or accounted for it badly should be enough to toss the Libs out. A billion here a couple billion there...
Maybe the sponsorship scandle wasn't large scale to you, but to me and many others it's huge. The act itself of corruption and decet is the issue, not the dollar amount.

Originally posted by Yakk
Evidence of incompetence can be balanced with evidence of competence. The Liberals have done a decent job managing the Federal budget for the most part: services haven't been utterly destroyed, and they are running surplusses. And the Canadian economy is doing good.

The alternatives are worse. The Reform 3.0 party is no more acceptable than it was in the first two iterations: simply because they managed a hostile takeover of the PC party, doesn't make them any less kooks.

NDP could be good, but they need more seasoning.

So, I'm hoping for either a NDP/Conservative minority or a Liberal/NDP minority government. I'm afraid of a Conservative/Bloc minority government.

With respect, the NDP ran this province into the ground in the ten years they were in power. The idea of a federal NDP is quite scary to me. I do agree that a minority gov would be the best choice for all concerned.


Reform 3.0....

[Lassus]

I refuse to vote for someone or some group that disgusts me and since all political groups do, so I refuse to vote lol

[Fly]

fuck it..........i'm gonna vote for the marijuana party.

at least we'll all be happy and content.


....all the parties are thieves.........we just gotta pick the cheapest one.

(fuckin' thieves)

[Yakk]

Originally posted by floydthebarber
The fact that they spent our money badly and/or accounted for it badly should be enough to toss the Libs out. A billion here a couple billion there...
Maybe the sponsorship scandle wasn't large scale to you, but to me and many others it's huge. The act itself of corruption and decet is the issue, not the dollar amount.

Hmm? I thought the sponsorship scandal consisted of the Liberals being overly spendy and insufficiently accountable on ads during the Quebec referendum?

The government thought it was going to lose the referendum, so they threw money at ad agencies. Some was lost to corruption, and too much of it wasn't accounted for properly.

The error seemed to me to be on the side of poor accounting, due to panic over the possible breakup of Canada.

Did I miss something in the scandal?

With respect, the NDP ran this province into the ground in the ten years they were in power. The idea of a federal NDP is quite scary to me. I do agree that a minority gov would be the best choice for all concerned.

*nod*, hence my fear of an inexperienced party running the government. Layton seems to have a decent set of plans, and is actually includes means of paying for the promises he made, unlike most of the other parties...

Reform 3.0....

/shrug, the Reform party split off from the PC, tried to merge (hence Alliance, aka Reform 2.0), that failed. They then planted a stooge into the PC party, who managed to become the leader of the PC party by promising not to merge with the Reform party. They then did a hostile takeover of the PC party by flooding it's membership rolls with new members.

The former leaders of the Reform party 2.0 then became the leaders of the new party.

Former leaders of the PC party (Joe Clark, for instance) claim that the Liberals are a less horrible choice than the new party.

It looks a hell of alot more like Reform 3.0 than PC 2.0 from here.

I wouldn't mind having PC 2.0 in power in the country. They'd probably clean out some crud.

So, before I'd trust Reform 3.0 to be a reasonable party, I'd want to test it in either an opposition or a minority government role. Right now, they are a party that hasn't even bothered to gather to form a policy. Why wouldn't Harper do the same things as leader of the Conservative party that he was going to do as leader of Reform 2.0?

[Tirian]

My general comments.

Probably will vote NDP as a form of protest. Hopefully if enough of us do it, the others will be sent a message. The NDP may suprise us this time 'round. ???

Liberals, bad spending .vs. corruption. I believe it is total corruption. I've worked in small Gvt. and I've seen it happening. Best way to hide corruption is to be as bad as you can be at your accounting. And yes I believe PM knew about it, probably partook.

Conservatives, not likely. King Ralph in AB is enough of an example for me to avoid voting for any of those types.

...my random thoughts on the Fed election...

[Ace_O_Spades]

Federeal NDP != Provincial NDP

thats like calling the Provincial Liberals the Federal liberals... they arent the same.

[sherpahigh]

Originally posted by Yakk
Hmm? I thought the sponsorship scandal consisted of the Liberals being overly spendy and insufficiently accountable on ads during the Quebec referendum?

The government thought it was going to lose the referendum, so they threw money at ad agencies. Some was lost to corruption, and too much of it wasn't accounted for properly.

The error seemed to me to be on the side of poor accounting, due to panic over the possible breakup of Canada.

Did I miss something in the scandal?

"$250 million spent on the sponsorship program was suspect. About $100 million of $250 million was paid in fees and commissions to Liberal-friendly advertising and communications firms for work of little or no value." from Sheila Fraser's testamony.

I read into that, that the Liberal government was using this as a way to pad the pockets of their buddies .

Nevermind the sponsorship scandle though. How about the gun registry? A billion dollars spent for something that is totally useless seems like a good way to allocate funds I suppose.

The waste of our tax dollars is reason enough not to vote those crooks back into power IMO.

My vote will be for the conservatives unless something major happens between now and June 28th.

[Charlatan]

For all of you voting Conservative this time because the Liberals can't be trusted, or need to be sent a message...

What did you vote last election and why? What was it about the party you chose to vote for that made you vote that way?

[sherpahigh]

Story was the same for me last time. Conservative. I vote for them because they hold the views that most closely represent mine out of all the other major parties. Mostly because of ecomonic reasons.

I agree with a lot of Liberal policy, but overall the conservatives are the closest match for myself.

Turn the question around. Why do you voting Liberal or NDP vote that way?

[Yakk]

I'm as yet undecided.

NDP are tempting: they are actually paying for their elections promises with how they will increase revenue.

Liberals aren't paying for their promises. What they have going for them is experience running the country, during which socially and economically the country did pretty good.

Reform 3.0/Conservatives I won't vote for, because they aren't paying for their promises, have no experience running anything, the party contains too many fanatics, their executive comes from a disgruntled regional party, they are in favour of expanding drug wars, retracting health care, and are the party that brought us the "triple E Senate", the stupidest idea since the not-withstanding clause. Let alone their parties stance on Abortion, Gay Marriage, and general government poking about in private lives.

PC (Progressive Canadian) party I won't vote for because it is barely twitching.

Green party I might vote for, but too many fanatical people get into the Green party. A vote for them would just be a 7$ donation to them, and I'm not certain I they do good with the money.

I would be tempted to vote for the Progressive Conservative party, but it no longer exists.

I suspect I'll vote strategically, or decide based on the local Candidate.

[Charlatan]

The reason I asked was if someone had voted Liberal and now wanted to vote Conservative I really want to know why? If, on the other hand you voted Alliance in the previous election you really haven't changed your vote.

What really interests me is those actually voted PC last election. When you voted PC what were your reasons for not choosing to vote Alliance? Those reasons are still there, don't fool yourself. If you voted PC last time you'd be better off voting for Paul Martin. He might as well be the PC reborn... he is a fiscal conservative and he has rid the Liberals of much of their left wing.

Fiscal conservative and socially progressive that is the Old PC and the current Paul Martin.

[sherpahigh]

I should have made that a bit clearer. The last election I voted Alliance, the one before that, Reform. I am from the West and western alianation is a real issue as you can see by clicking on the 97' and 00' results of the past elections here: http://www.sfu.ca/~aheard/elections/past_elections.html

As I've said before, I don't agree with all of their policies, but I believe that overall they are the best option available.

I used to hold hope for the Liberals with Paul Martin as their leader. I bought into the same belief as you've stated that he is fically conservative and socially progressive. Don't buy that anymore in light of recent events.

[Charlatan]

I continue to vote NDP, not on the hope that they get in... although that would be an interesting situation... more so that they continue to act as a voice of opposition in parliament. Any participation in a minority government is a bonus.

The NDP stands for much of what I believe Canada is about. I find Reform 3.0 and the LIberals are way too far right of centre for my taste.

[merkdr]

it scares me to think of this upcoming election . ndp i think not they fucked things up here in ontario[ remember mr. rae ] the pc`s aren`t much better, don`t even want to think about the pc`s and the bloc in bed with each other , doesn`t leave much , "better the devil you know".

[shannon]

Originally posted by Charlatan
I continue to vote NDP, not on the hope that they get in... although that would be an interesting situation... more so that they continue to act as a voice of opposition in parliament. Any participation in a minority government is a bonus.
The NDP stands for much of what I believe Canada is about. I find Reform 3.0 and the LIberals are way too far right of centre for my taste.

exactly my thoughts. well said.

[bigbad]

I voted Alliance last election, but this time I'm going NDP. Up until Jean Chretien stepped down I was set to vote Liberal this time, as the stuff Chretien was doing such as refusing to go into Iraq and attempting to decriminalize marijuana made me even prouder to be Canadian, but I wish so much harm upon Paul Martin and refuse to vote for him. And while I agree with a lot of the Conservative's policies, the ones I don't agree with such as opposing gay marriage and privatizing health care are huge deal breakers. NDP is the middle ground, I don't disagree with any of their stances enough to not vote for them, and they have a leader that isn't a total scumbag, so they'll be getting my vote.

Originally posted by merkdr
it scares me to think of this upcoming election . ndp i think not they fucked things up here in ontario[ remember mr. rae ] the pc`s aren`t much better, don`t even want to think about the pc`s and the bloc in bed with each other , doesn`t leave much , "better the devil you know".

Federal NDP is not the same as Provincial NDP, a lot of people don't understand that for some reason. That is true for all parties, case in point, the federal Liberals have been trying as hard as they can out here to distance themselves from the BC Liberals, given the terrible job the BC Liberals have done while in power.