highthief

and post-secondary education? I was taking an exam when Marc Lepine went off his nut and killed 14 women at Ecole Polytechnique. A few year later, a Concordia prof goes and kills 4 people. Now, this nut-job at Dawson.

What da fuck?

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MexicanOnABike

I saw this not long ago... do you have any info? from what i saw on the news: 19 injured, 2 dead including the gunman.

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HoneyB

Downtown Montreal is crazy right now. I go to school right near Dawson and was told over and over again not to go to class tonight. Metros were all shut down. I know there are two people dead and many critically injured but the police won't give any details yet. It's pure chaos here today..

highthief

Yes, that's the latest news - some twisted SOB did it. Several people remain in critical condition, 2 in "very critical" condition according to the Montreal General doctors

Looks the cops did a great job, they learned their lesson from the Ecole Polytechnique massacre in 1989 and took this dog out very quickly. This obviously could have been much, much worse in terms of a death toll.

http://www.torontosun.com/News/Canad...38305-sun.html

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fresnelly

I admit I'm relieved that is was only one nutbar responsible for this and not some co-ordinated effort. This sort of thing is so sad and so stupid. My heart goes out to the students, staff and families.

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Charlatan

I saw this this morning on Google News... fucking hell.

What is it with Montreal? Have we heard from Sticky yet?

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Sticky

11:25 Septmber 13, 2006 - A co-worker that I was scheduled to have a meeting with come to my office a few minutes early.
We get working on the issue and time passes by, the next time that I look at my clock on my screen it is 12:11pm we continue working. Some time passes, I am not sure how much.

Crack, Crack, Crack, Crack, Crack, Crack, Crack

"Those were gunshots", I say to the woman (my co-worker) in my office.
In the past, a couple of times, I have thought that I heard something that I thought was a gunshot. This sounded a little bit different, maybe a different gun - I right away imagined a semi-automatic rifle not set on automatic.

"No" she says. My first reaction was that she did not think they were gunshots. Now, however, after almost a day replfection maybe her reaction was just disbelief.

A few seconds pass (5 perhaps)
I turn my chair, stand up and go over to my office window.
My desk is a U shape. I face the door to my office with my monitor and my keyboard in from of me. The desk wraps around my left side agains the wall and wraps again behind me under the window. The open part of the U shape is on my right.

I climb onto the part of the desk that is under the window and sit down to try to get a view of what is going on outside, not believing that I would be able to see anything as the gunshots could have been from anywhere outside...

Sorry for the suspense, I have to head out to an appointment. I will likely only be able to get back to this story tomorrow.

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Charlatan

You bastard!

I'm just glad to hear you are OK.

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Amaras

Rather than say "What the hell is it about Montreal" I would rather say,. What the hell is it with these bastards who do this sort of thing. I've lived here most of my life, and hey, at least it's not Toronto!

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feelgood

I'm tellin you man, this is just another way for the french to separate...

On a side note: Did anyone noticed that the shooter had a profile on vampirefreaks.com same as the 13 yrs old Medicine hat girl? Hmm...the vampires are takin over the country!

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CandleInTheDark

You can't set a semi-automatic rifle on automatic. That would make it an automatic rifle.

I can't wait for the gun control debate that follows this.

I hope those students and their families get justice.

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Charlatan

How much more justice do you want? The shooter is dead.

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- Old Man Luedecke

Sticky

I know very little about guns. Please forgive me. I also said taht it was what I imagined from hearing the sound.

To me it did not sound like a handgun (but I really have no clue).
And it did not sound automatic (i.e. it did not sound like the shots rang out in an even pattern which I can only assume would happen from holding a trigger down on an automatic gun).
The shots were in very quick succession but they were not evenly spaced.

By the way, it was found that he had three guns on him. This morning it was announced that they were all registered to him and logally obtained. It was also determined that he killed himself. The autopsy turned up two bullets in his body one in his arm and one in his head. The one in his arm was from the police.
I was hoping that it was the police that killed him rather than the decision being his.

Charlatan, thanks for the thoughts.

...my coworker also goes up to the window and stands at the end of my desk where there is some space between the end of my desk and the wall.

We are not really sure what we see at first. What I felt took us a few minutes to take in the scene was probably about 3 seconds.
Becuase of where my office is located in relation to the front entrance of Dawson for those first three seconds (after we go to the window) we did not really see anything. When we got really close up to the window the front entrance of Dawson was in complete view and our eyes started taking in what we saw and we began to talk about it trying to get an idea of what it meant. This sounds weird, but I will explain.

Here is a satelite image of the area probably from about 5 years ago. Dawson has built up the building since then and alot of the empty space behind the main part of the building is now filled with new wings of the building.
(Note: What is now called the Pepsi Forum is actually the old Montreal Forum where the Canadians used to play. The placce was completely redone and filled with stores, restaurants, and a movie theatre - what a desacration.)
.

You have to understand that we (nobody) knew nothing of the situation at this point. We saw a man lying on the ground on his back on the front walk of the school (circled in red on the image) and a woman walked up to him after a couple of seconds with rubber gloves on (she must have first aid training and keeps rubber gloves in her purse). She left her purse on the ground and started administering first aid. Then there was a man who came over and was ehlping as well. We focused on that and tried to determine what it is that was going on. There were, for sure, other poeple around but they did not grab our attention. Blood was flowing from the man that was being helped and was pooling on the ground around him.

If we saw the shooter in those first few seconds trying to take in the scene, we certainly did not notice him. I believe that he entered teh school either before we got to the window (i.e. right after teh shots) or within the first second or two we were looking out the window.

Our first thoughts were that the shooting may have been gang related. There aren't really any gangs around but gang violence or settling of accounts is certainly much more plausible to us then a guy walking around shooting random people. We were wondering if the guy on the ground was a victim or if he was chased by the police and shot. He looked dead. He was not moving. We did not see anymore shooting or any other action going on (for those few seconds taht felt like forever anyway).

Within about a minute (again it could have been less becuase everything seemed to be moving so slowly) I picked up my phone and said "we should call 911". My coworker then said "look there are the Police" and she pointed out the window to the police on the ground.
There is often a police car around the corner of de Maisoneuve and Atwater (there is a Metro (subway) station right there, a lot of cars, busses, students, and office workers). Apperently, however, the Police were already on/near the scene for a routine drug call.
A woman police officer walks up to Dawson's Main entrace with here gun drawn and goes in. I remeber saying "she's going in alone?"

This made us realize that a shooter (either the shooter of the guy on the ground or an accomplice) must have went into the school.

There must have been another cop that came with teh cop that went into the building but I can't say for sure as I was focusing on the cop going into the building. The other cop may have pulled up the car or they may have both arived in teh car and the woman cop ran in. I don't remember. Either way there was a cop car on the scene now. There were also now three people working on the guy on the ground. There was also a first aid case that was taken out of the cop car that was laying on the floor behind the car.

Another police car pulled up next to the first police car. A couple of other cops went into the building.
We have no idea what is happening in the building.
More cops and poeple (i say people becuase some were plainclothes cops and we did not nknow it at the time) are showing up around the entrance.

I see the guy on the ground move. Relief. He is not dead. He is probably in real critical condition though.

A policeman not in uniform gets into the the firs cop car. I remember thinking
- is that guy a cop, why is he going into the car?. I think I may have even asked my coworker that.
Anyway, he backs up the car a few feet and stops. Then he move the car forward again and gets out of the car runs to the back and kicks the first aid case out of the way. he gets back into the car, backs up avout 15feet and then turns a little bit to the right (diagonally towards the school entrance) and drives forward up onto the sidewalk and front walk of the school placing teh car between the front doors of the school and the people woking on the guy in the ground. Smart.

We are watching the front doors of the school. More cops show up. Students are running out through the main entrance and another door about 30feet to the left of the main entrance. From our viepoint (a few floors up) we can also see strudents running our of doors further down the street.
I asked my co-worker "why are the cops not stopping those people (rounding them up o something), the shooter may get away as the students leave". There were a lot more cops on the scene now.
I did not think about this at the time but the cops obviously knoew more about what was going on then we did - they must have know the shooter was in the building. Police and witness accountings of the situation say that the cops egaged the shooter getting his attention and trying to draw his fire towards them rather than the students. The shooter apparently backed himslef into a little alcove making it onyl possible to approach him from the front.
I don't know anything about the timeline of what went on in the school and from our view we could not see anything inside the school. We could only see what was happenign on the street. We don't know the situation inside.

I notice now that the guy on the ground is lying on his stomach. I can't understand why. I think and say to my co-worker, "maybe he really IS a suspect and the police are holding him down". He did not seem like a suspect though as the time passed on but this seemed weird. Maybe there was a wound on his back (back, back of the head, or neck).

An ambulance shows up. At this point I can't find the original woman that came to help the man lying on the ground. We notice there there is someone in the back of the police car. The paramedics take the man on the ground away in the ambulace. We, again, are sure (assume so anyway) that he is not a suspect. No police go with him.
We see the pool of blood he leaves behind on the ground. How can he still be alive.

The person in the back of the police car was not the woman who first arrive, but another wounded. I don't remeber seeing her first get into the back of the car. A police officer was helping her. More ambulances show up, one of the ambulances take her away.

Knowing how close the closest hospital (The Montreal General - actually the closest is The Montreal Children's Hospital) is while it felt like a long time, the ambulances must have been there within 5-7minutes maybe less. It felt like an eternity though.

Here the timeline gets a little screwed up and I can't be positive about what happened it what order but my instincts say it happened as follows (I am about 99% sure).

More cops shop up and stand on either side of the entrance while the ones that were alreay there go in. All cops are wearing bullet proffo vests.

The front doors open outwards and swing to the right. There are about 5 or six doors made mostly of glass. becaue the doors swing out to the right, the cops on the right side of the entrance can hold the rightmost door open and be covered by the building. A cop on the left side of teh building tries to do the same but becuase it opens to the right his arm and part of his body are exposed holding the door open. We wonder why he is doing that.

Other thoughts that go through my head.
While Police may be trained for this stuff, it never really happens in real life. The majority of police officers never even have to take their gun out of the holster never mind shooting their guns in a real situation.

A few more students leave teh building throgh the other doors.
The cops outside (two on either side of the entrance) have their guns trained on the door. They are not holding the left and rightmost doors open anymore.

The middle doors are flug open. Four policeman drag a body, out the door. The body is leaving a trail of blood as the drag it. The trail of blood is about 6 inches to a foot wide.
My first thouhgt, by the manner in which they dragged the body out, was that this must be a suspect. My second thought, also by the way the body was dragged out was that it was dead.
As soon as they clear the door they drop the body and it looks as if they put handcuffs on his hands behind his back. This allows me to note that the guy is face down. Four cops then pick him up two by the arms and to by the legs. he si still face down. His arms are lifted up behgind his back to more than pependicular to his back. Hand they carry/drag to the other side of the police car to the place on the ground that was previously occupied by the wounded man.

They way the police carried him to that spot again makes me think that he is dead. His shoulders are probably dislocated. But why did they handcuff him? Probably just to be 100% safe.
Wait, but the four cops are still on top of him. They are weither checking him out, holding him down and/or administering first aid. Maybe he is still alive. One of the cops stands up, leans over the car and points his gun at the building.

Swat arrives. I am pretty sure that this was after they pulled the/a suspect out of the building. The is the part that I am not 100% sure about. They go in. The building really starts emptying now. About 20-30 people exit at a time with their hands in the air. The police outside ask them to run clear of the front of the building. Even more cops go in?

Is there another shooter, we think.
The people who work in the area right in front of my office door join us in the office and ask us what is going on. I am not sure why it took them so long to join us. They already heard what happened. Maybe they went into to toher peoples offices but did not stay there. Maybe my office door was partly closed so they stayed away. I don't remember.

We have not looked at the time. We (at least I) don't know how much time has passed. The situation is still critical. There could be other shooters.
We are sure that they guy on the ground is a suspect. How, I don't know, but I am sure.
With the police on top of him I can still see that he is wearing all black and is wearing combat boots. Blood is flowing all over the ground.
To me it looks liek the wound is around the head area.
This makes me think that he must have killed himself. Would a police have shot him in the head? Wouldn't they have tried to take him out but not kill him? Maybe not. Maybe they did whatever they could to kill him just to stop him from shooting others. But would they have aimed at this head? isn't his body easier to hit? We discused this.

I hope they killed him, I think to myself, rather then him getting a chance to kill himsel. if he kilss hiself it is like he won.
- Is that a silly though?

The rumors start flying around the office. people must have come up from downstairs. it was lunch time, people were probably in the mall in Alexis Nihon plaza right under our building and people must have been on the street - the weather was OK. They must have started covering it on the radio and reported it on TV alread. I don't knw where the rumors were coming from. Mostly probably from fright.

There are 4 shooters someone said. All the buildings - Dawson, Place Alexi Nihon, the metro, Westmount square (whis is on the next block to the west) - are connected below street level. Anybody could easily go from one building to the next to escape or to kill more people.

Next rumor: Security locked down our elevators. That rumor makes us feel a little better. Not that someone looking to kill alot of people would come up in the elevator, the mall below is certainly more crowded, but maybe someone would come up to escape.

More rumors.

More people are leaving Dawson. The Police outside are acting as if there is still a threat inside the Dawson. Maybe there is.

We notice that the police drape a pink (maybe peach) sheet over the body of the suspect. He is dead.
Aside: announcements on the TV and radio for a few hours afterward said that the police had neutralized a shooter. The press could not get confirmation of what neutralized meant. Once I was home later I called a radio station and explained what I saw and said that a man who I could only assume was the/a shooter was dead and that must be who the police are referring to as neutralized.

Some wounded start exiting the building with the other students. Some on the own power and some being helped by others. One girl shot in the leg was carried out. A man wanled out without a shirt on. I think he was hit in the arm. A few otehr wounded. Maybe we saw 5, 6 or 7.

We are stil watching and have no idea how much time has passed.

An announcement is made by the security of our building. They ask us to please exit the building using the fire exits and nto to use the elavators.

Wait, but the fire exit that we take empties onto the street right infront of the main entrance of Dawson where everythign we were watching takes place. Why are they evacuating us? Did a shooter enter our complex? Shouldn't they just lock the elevators as the rumor said and keep people from coming up. Wait maybe that is a fire hazard. Who knows. We don't really have a choice.

I grab my blackberry and look around to see if there is something else that I should take. I do not think of taking my MP3 player that has an FM radio. Later on I would have liked to have it.

Aside: as I am writing this people outside my office door are talking about th incident. The discussion comes through at various points throughout the day.

I shut the door to my office and head to stairwell with my co-workers. We go down the few flights and walk aroung the winding passageway to the door. We open the door and exit the building and move at a slow jog west down a drive way to the street. A cop yells to us to get back in. We yell back that security has evacuated the building. He says OK and points west and tells us to cross over to Ste. Catherine (that is the next steet south, perpendicular to de Maisoneuve) once we clear the Alexis Nihon Plaza complex. we clear the complex and head between the buildings where the entrance to our parking lot is. Once we get between the buildings we slow down a bit. A police woman yells at us (not in a mean way) "run".

We get to Ste. Catherine. I can now decide to go east or west. My car is stuck in the building if I have to get home some other way I would rather be on the west side. My house is about a 20 minute drive west of the office.

I am now alone. There are alot of people on the street but I am no longer with any co-workers. I walk past Wood Avenue the corner fo teh block that all the is happening on. I walk another block west ans pass Green Avenue. The Westmount Square complex westmost side opens onto Green. This is the fruthest west you can get through the below street level connected area. I figure taht to be sure I am safe I have to be west of hear. I stand on the lawn of the RCMP building. I call my wife on her cell. She does not answer. I try her at home. She does not answer. I want to tell her what happened before she hears from soemwhere else that my building was evacuated. Why didn't I call her from my office earlier? I don't think I took my eyes off the street until the evacuation announcemtn came.

I call my grandmother. She lives in one of the buildings nearby. If she is in her building I want to warn her not to come down. We still have no idea what is going on - how many shooters there are. If she is not at home then I want to warn her not to come back because she won't be able to get in her building.

I try my wife again and leave her a message this time. I try to leave a good message and not scare her. every call I make I have to try twice as there is a lot of congestion. No doubt there are many people calling out from inside Dawson.

Aside: I later got a letter from my kids' school telling us the procedure they took throughout the day. They mentioned what the did in the elementary school and highschool. In the high school they spoke to each class indivudually because during recess they were getting cals on their cell phones from friends telling them what happened. Some of the cals from Dawson students. Why do som may highschool students have cell phones? Why are they allowed to use them during school hours? Anyway...

I look at the clock on my blackberry.
It is 1:31pm.
That is just about an hour after this all started. it felt like a long time. I would have thought that less time had passed that I felt had passed but I am sure I would have never guesssed the time.

I get in touch with my wife and tell her taht I am OK and that I am going to hang out here for a while to see if it all gets cleared up and if I can get back into the office.

A couple of guys from my office walk by. They say they are going to their kids school which is nearby to see theri kids.

Another guy from my office wallks up from the west. he was out at lunch nad had no idea that this all went on. I filled him in. he stays for a while and then decides that he is going to walk closer. About 10 minutes later he comes back and says that he is heading back to his car to go home. I decide to hang aroud for a while longer.

I get a call from my wife. She tells me that my sister is in her car and has offered to come pick me up. I figure that there is no way that I am getting on the metro to go home. Dawson is connected to the whole city via the metro system. I figure that if my sister offering then I will take her up in it. I cal her and I tell her that I am going to walk west to a point where I am sure she will be able to get to by car without any problems. She said that she will be there in about 20minutes. She said that she is going to try to get in touch with her friend who also works in teh same building complex as me and see if we can pick her up to.

She picks me up. We go to pick up her freidn who had walked east of all the action and grabbed a cab. She got out of the cab whne she spoke to my sister so that we could pick here up and take her the rest of the way.

We pick her up.
It is 2:45pm.

I'm home. It's a little after 3pm.
I kiss my wife.
I am hungry, I did not eact lunch yet.
I spend the rest of the afternoon before the kids listening to the radio in the kitchen. I notice that I am a little shaky. I was never really scared at any point. I think I am just a little shaky from nerves. I just need to relax a bit. I try some tea.
My wife goes to pick up the kids from school.
I call the radio station (as I mentioned above) and give them some facts that they did not have.
My kids come in the house. Higs and kisses all around. They are none the wiser. They don't even ask why I am home before them.
I notice that i am not longer shaky. Maybe hugs from my kids made it go away. Who knows.

I watch TV and listened to radio here and there when teh kids were not around. More details came in. Number of wounded. The police confirming that there was only one syuspect and that he was dead.

I watched Rockstar Supernova. I liked Toby better but I am glad Dilana did not win. Wow another Canadian wining this competition but that is another thread.

I can't remember the rest of the evening.

Wow, that took a long time to wite.
I actually have to do some whork now.

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aberkok

Thanks for sharing, Sticky. Although the case is pretty much closed, this will remain an important account of the sad day. Hopefully it will last forever here on TFP. I also hope it helped you come to terms with what you saw.

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ophelia783

Please read
http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...st969907621263

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