phyzix525

I don't know if this has been discussed yet, but who is the guy on the table at the end of the movie? He was upside down and I did not get a good look at him.

Kadath

Bane. The guy Smith downloaded himself into. Bum Bum Baahhh! Cliffhanger!

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spectre

Kadath is correct. That was Bane, the dude that Agent Smith took over.

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No goddamn slave
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phyzix525

ok, I am a Matrix novice, which one was Bane? I did watch it really, just don't remember names well.

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phyzix525

Oh yeah the guy that was going to kill him with the knife, I only have seen it once, I gotta go again tonight. I forgot about that, I saw it last night when I was hopped up on antihistemines, I almost fell asleep. Sorry

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It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time
It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time
It's hard to remember to live before you die
It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time
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spectre

Yes, the guy with the knife was Bane.

__________________
"Fuck these chains
No goddamn slave
I will be different" ~ Machine Head

Lebell

Hehe, yeah.

GREAT cliffhanger, especially since you just know Bane is Agent Smith now.

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phyzix525

I think i was still recovering from the shock the the movie was over to proccess the information that I just saw. Plus the guy was upside down. Really Im not terarded! daaarrr

__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time
It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time
It's hard to remember to live before you die
It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time
It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time

mrap1

I don't understand how the connection is made that agent Smith is now Bane

arael

Agent Smith simply took Bane's identity. It shows our flesh (body) is only a container of information. Smith, after transforming Bane into himself, he loaded his own information or code into Bane's body. That's all

pujmonkey

I saw the movie again last night, so yeah now I get the movie, damn its a good movie. One thing that I have not noticed anyone talking about is that fact that Neo now has powers outside the matrix. If he is "just human" then how did he have the power to stop the sentinals....I guess thats for next movie.

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cdwonderful

I too watched again last night, it is a very good movie

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mrap1

The reason he has powers outside of the matrix is because Zion is really just another matrix. Which means that the humans that thought they were free from the matrix aren't really free at all!

The better question is where does it end, or rather when does it really begin? If Zion is a matrix then how do we know that the world a level above Zion isn't also a matrix?

To put it more clearly think of it this way: What if someone inside the matrix designed another matrix? What if in the matrix world machines take over the world and create a matrix of their own? Its a never ending cycle! It's a matrix within a matrix within a matrix within a matrix etc.

Another example that comes to mind is to draw a circle, and in that circle draw another circle, and in that circle draw another circle, ad infinitum.

Nappa

Two thing I didn't understand about the film :

First, if Neo's design/purpose as the "One" is to restart the Matrix and erase the "anomalies" within the program, then why do Agents try and stop him and the others? The Agents obviously take orders from somewhere, but why would the machines want to see Neo killed? Wouldn't they be ordered to HELP him? Perhaps the Architect has kept the other machines in the dark about the Neo flaw?

Also, at the end, has the matrix been destroyed? I thought the door Neo chose would crash the system and kill EVERYONE in the pods, but they never mentioned it afterwards. Sooo, the only people left are those in the "Zion Matrix"?

Mr.Deflok

Though it's a clever idea which quite a few people are taking to right now I don't believe it to be true. The Wachowski's aren't seeking to make a mind-fuck, they want to make a movie with heroes and villains. By making the "Real World" a Matrix then they'll be negating any heroicness about Neo as his attempts to find his purpose as futiles. Not only that but it would render Reloaded completely useless as anything divulged in the movie isn't 'true'.

mrap1

It wouldn't necessarily render the previous movies useless, I mean you can't have an ending without a journey to get you there. I think that if they do go with the matrix within a matrix route it will raise oh so many more questions about the existense of God and of a soul. Basically you're going to need a degree in philosophy trying to figure it out.

mrap1

At the end of the movie the matrix still hasn't been destroyed yet, it ends only a few minutes after Neo chooses his path. We will find out in Revolutions what actually happens because of Neo's choice.

As for why the agents try to stop Neo: Because they know that as hard as they try they really can't stop him. Basically they are there so that Neo can "discover" his purpose in life. Something he can't do if the agents are helping him.

GoldenOuroboros

Yes the next movie is goin to reveal alot. Can't wait for it

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GakFace

Here's the funny part. Agent smith has many MANY duplicates in the matrix now, but his original self (or at leas the most original) is in Bane, and Bane is no longer hooked up to the matrix, So I'm curious what will happen when he returns, as all the other versions will have advanced since then, and he'll still be "the same" as when he left....

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phyzix525

oh yeah I never thought of that, If Agent smith is just a program in the matrix, how can he inhabit someone else that is a "human" Unless Zion is in a matrix also? Can a program exist unles it is in the matrix? I have not seen any other examples of this so that would explain why he was able to destroy the sentenals once outside the matrix. hummm interesting. Well can't wait till november! I kinda wish there was going to be more then just one more film though.

__________________
It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time
It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time
It's hard to remember to live before you die
It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time
It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time

Mr.Deflok

Well you're downloading your brain per se into the Matrix when you jack-in which in turn becomes it's own program inside the Matrix, Smith takes over this program in a viral manner and your program is uploaded to your real brain via the jack-port.

mrap1

I think that its important to note that the only reason that Smith can "jack" into Bane is because Zion is really just another matrix. If Zion wasn't a matrix then I don't think that Smith could jack out.

mrap1

I'm curious if anyone has any insight into why during many points in the movie they kept emphasizing the point that Neo "is only human"? I saw the movie a second time and noticed that this point kept poping up. Off the top of my head I remember two instances: 1. When Neo can't sleep and he tours the Zion machinery with the counselor guy 2. When he is fighting Merovigian's (sp?) henchmen.

Conclamo Ludus

Neo is STILL human and can still be gotten to. He isn't perfect code. He is still vulnerable. It's still possible for him to be as weak as he is strong. That's what I took from it, obviously some Jesus-comparisons can be drawn. If Neo's doubts were to overtake him he would be as vulnerable as any human in the matrix. Kind of one of the main themes of the first movie.

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mrap1

I still don't get it, ok, so he's human, he can still be hurt. So was Jesus. Jesus was human, Jesus was killed by men, Jesus could be hurt even though he had higher powers.

Was the point of them emphasizing his humanity to make a direct Jesus comparison.

Now that I remember, the Architect (God) also said that Neo (Jesus) was human. I thought that Neo was supposed to be a computer program, a collection of errors in the matrix.

Sun Tzu

Do you think that the counterpart; Smith is symbolic of Lucifer in Angelic form. In the first he appeared to have a lead role over the other agents, now a more renegade entity program with self ambition against the Matrix.

Ive only seen the movie once, but the conversation with the creator still eludes me. Is the theme: the Oracle has been guiding Neo the whole time to arrive at where he is at the moment he has the conversation with the creator to destroy all but a small number of the human race and begin again. My head is spinning. The Matrix within a Matrix is an interesting thought.

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mrap1

Actually my interpretation was that only Zion would be destroyed, the matrix would continue as usual. But your question leads me to an interesting point, if they do decide to reboot or destroy the matrix from what point do they start it up again? Do they start it 5000 years ago, or do they set back the clock ten years or something?

mrap1

Another question is why does the architect reference sex when he is talking about himself and the other program? Is he just talking down to Neo's level of understanding or is there some significance in it?

Sun Tzu

What is the significance of the other program? I would have really thought they were attempting to follow the theme from the bible in sorts, but the Oracle doesnt factor into that at all.

Are you thinking that Zion is representing a "cache"? WIth each person living that exsistence is actually kind of a file that needs to be defragged? So neos purpose is to do like a clean disk?

It sounded like they alllow Zion to happen, so they've performed a clean disk 5 times before? Its mentioned a few times that every program has a purpose, so this is Neos program; his purpose to clean the disk?

Perhaps the machines know that humans will occasionally wake; or the threat of something like this really happening exsists, so they created Zion to attract those humans prone to that happening and when it gets full, or perhaps when the danger becomes close to being real that humans could start waking up more than anticipated becasue of the cache spilling over programs are instilled into a chosen or even random human that will not only allow him to do what he does, but put the hidden purpose of cleaning out the cache leaving the small amount of humans they stated to keep the cache open.

Neos communication with the oracle and others is nothing mroe than information traveling through buses as it was designed that way.

Similiar to computers and the net Neos destroy or cache clearing program accidently or intentionaly mixed with smiths; turning him into a virus. Thats why hes spreading. He stated he wanted out ain the first one so hes out to damage the matrix in some way?

I hope theres something mroe than a Tron plot going on here. Other than the effects that would be disappointing. Well see

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

Sun Tzu

But why is the digging going on?

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking

sweeze

ah, the old "turtles all the way down" story...

in any case,

the one thing I really couldn't figure out about reloaded was smith's motivation: i mean after he was "set free" he seems to not be working for the architect any more, so what's he trying to accomplish? i think (hope?) it's more than just malice against neo. any ideas?

Sun Tzu

The theory I was stating above is he's become virus-like. He certainly spreads like one. He was motivated to get out of the matrix in the first one.

Here comes a really over analytical question. If the machines sole purpose in humans is energy. Why not regress the humans back to the Middle ages?

Another reason to continually destroy Zion if it is part of the Maxtrix is the factor that humans progress. So if they wanted to keep us in the 90s they would have to keep destroying Zion or even rebooting the Matrix just because of our scientific progress could become dangerous to them. Which bring me back to my question why not pick that would be easier to control?

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To confine our attention to terrestrial matters would be to limit the human spirit.- Stephen Hawking