PredeconInferno

I don't know about this one.

I got into an argument with one of my friends on which was better, and he seems to COMPLETELY believe the originals were better.

He couldn't offer even an ounce of logical argument as to why he felt that way, he just did.

So I'd like to hear it from someone here, what are your opinions? and why please?

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Kadath

Because Han shot first. He is a dirty motherfucker, and I hate that Lucas changed it to make him the good guy. The scene with Jabba in A New Hope was not overly strong, and didn't add much to the movie. The new dance number in Return of the Jedi was appallingly bad.

I don't actually care much for myself, but I hate that the new generation will not have even the option to see the original.

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Cynthetiq

right... Han being the scoundrel that he's supposed to be, that's reason enough.

it was the ORIGINAL vision and not a rewrite or additional stuff because he finally had more money and more time.

If everyone got to redo stuff then we'd always have things that were work in progress.

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Speed_Gibson

Never have seen the full 'Butchered Edition' release but that small change ruined the entire thing (what I saw of it) for me.

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Ace_O_Spades

personally i felt the added special effects took away from the imagination and immersiveness it left to the viewer by physically being able to show anything

i think the originals are better

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FaderMonkey

I agree. There is something to be said about the artistic quality of a film when your abilities are limited. Now that Lucas can pretty much do whatever he wants visually, the films have lost something.

bparker805

I guess i might be in the minority here. But if its Star Wars, chances are I'm going to like it even if it sucks. I like the Special Edition because it gave me more to watch/look at. I really dont care if Lucas changes things. It's his story and he can do what he wants with it. And with that, I will climb back into my bomb shelter...

shakran

what if Shakespeare came back today and decided to rewrite Romeo and Juliet?

do you think that "hey hunk, ditch your dad and old lady and let's get hitched" sounds better than "wherefore art thou Romeo?"

Kinda the same thing with star wars. If you have a classic, and you fuck with it, it's just not a classic anymore.

SecretMethod70

You know, I'm impartial on most parts of this debate, but I definitely think Han should have been left shooting first and that the ending of Return of the Jedi sucked with the new music, etc.

I don't mind the changes so much as the fact people won't get the option of which they'd like to own on DVD.

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Redjake

I don't mind the "Han shoots first" thing. What I do mind is how the graphics (in my opinion) weren't quite good enough to add them into a really old movie (i.e. ROTJ scene with singers at Jabba's palace). The graphics were ok then, now they just plain suck and seem out of place.

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gnort

Im not a fan of the CGI just thrown into a movie that rocked without it. Bring back the little models of ships flying around.

[goes to watch original Star Wars sans CGI]

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Lebell

Han.

Shot.

First.



Period.


(Damn you, George!)

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phukraut

i'm not sure what version SE is supposed to be.. but if it's the one with all the added scenes and new effects and so on i have to agree that the original is better. the scene with jabba just didn't seem to fit (i mean, jabba leaves his cushy lair to talk to han personally, and then swallows a simple lie? was this scene really crucial?), and the other one near the end where the x-wing pilots chat before the run on the death star just seemed pointless and boring. i almost fell asleep at one point before luke sold his wheels.

the original was compact and streamlined, and the effects still stand up today thanks to great model-work.

PredeconInferno

SE is the "Special Edition"

Kinda like you can get a car that's "SE" Only those are usually better... the consensus here is that this "SE" sucks

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Batman976

Not to mention he just let Han walk all over him (literally). I thought Jabba was supposed to be a powerful, feared creature. You don't get that way without demanding some respect.

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Stare At The Sun

I wish they would have just made the film look better, by taking out all the grain. Other than that, the dance number in ROTJ was horrid. and yes HAN SHOT FIRST.

I'll still by the SE though...

Fremen

Yeah.
And I'm glad they got rid of all those black boxes around the ships in space.

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guthmund

The "hanger" Jabba was such a pussy. Making stupid faces, shrugging and the dialogue?!? Jabba was supposed to be a bad-ass not a used car salesman.

Cleaning it up was fine. Adding extra shit to show off your superior CGI skills isn't.

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RedCometChar

I prefer the SEs for the visual cleanup, though I admit many of the added visual effects are unnecessary- and I don't mean just Han's "gunfight". I mean things like a pointless shot of a Dewback walking through a scene, or that Jawa's whatchamacallit thing rearing up on its hind legs.

The SE of A New Hope did have some small stuff missing that probably shouldn't have been in the final cut anyway- like the guy in the werewolf mask, or Vader using the Force to fetch a wineglass (how's he supposed to drink it?).

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Bobaphat

I didn't like the CGI at all. IT wasn't that great for one (jabba looked terrible) and it was just plain out of place. It looked wrong.

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Lasereth

There's a general rule to follow when doing CGI in movies: how good will it look years down the road?

James Cameron used a ton of CGI in Terminator 2 because he knew it would look good ten years later. Guess what? It still does.

The Star Wars SE graphics are already incredible shit. It was a bad idea. CGI was NOT developed enough to do what they wanted, and now it looks like an episode of a Saturday Morning cartoon.

Episode 1 did this well...it still has superb graphics (better than Episode 2 in most parts). It all depends on what you're trying to do with what you have. If the technology isn't advanced enough to make it look real years from now, then don't fucking do it! So many movies have made this mistake (Terminator 3!!!).

-Lasereth

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Kostya

Despite my penchant for DVD's, the fact that Lucas has flat out refused to release the original cuts means I will have to purchase worn out copies on VHS from some back alley record exchange. Still better than CGI shit. I've never seen the Greedo shooting first thing, mainly because I don't want to have to burn my TV to cleanse it afterwards, not to mention the rage, the overwhelming urge to kill that accompanies such a heresy.

m0rpheus

Greedo doesnt shoot. Not first, not ever.

Reasons
1) The shot looked horrible, he's sitting 2 feet from Han and misses. Was he aiming at a fly on the wall? Did he train at the Stormtrooper acadamy???

2) It ruins the character development Han has through the movies. In the real SW he starts as a dirty bastard who does what he needs to survive (IE blowing the crap out of Greedo) then over the course of the series becomes a hero. But in the Shit Edition he only shoots because Greedo did, making it an easy case of the hero defending himself.

The only SE I didnt mind was Empire, mainly because it was the one that Lucas didnt really fuck with (only adding in a few scenes of things like the Falcon flying to Cloud City which were really just tacked in so he'd have a "Special Edition")

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punx1325

I guess I am one of those minorities too, I liked the few CGI touches. Yes, the dance scene was bad and Han did shoot first, but it didn't ruin the movie. If you are going to bitch about the smallest detail, then I don't want to know what you have to say about Jar Jar.

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Sparhawk

I'm not so much of a purist as to say "Han shot first, that makes this crap," but what bothers me is how lame the scene looks. I mean, it just LOOKED fake. That and the ROTJ dance annoy me. I guess I'm one of the few, however, who thought the ending music to ROTJ was an improvement.

It's a wash IMO, and I'm still buying it

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Redjake

same here, I totally agree. it was done badly in the graphics department.

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Cynthetiq

or the LaserDisc box set

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dy156

The greedo and Jabba scenes were bad enough, but the addition of another song in Jabba's palace? What was this? a musical??!!

The one song I remember was taken out and replaced. The old ewok song was pretty hokey, but it makes me sad that kids won't ever get to hear

"Rub-Dub, edub be Chub-Chub, edub be wo be waddley-do be dob be waa duuu waaahhh!"

I'll still probably buy it.

FaderMonkey

Yeah, go for the laserdiscs. That's what I did. I didn't have a laserdisc player, so I got one pretty cheap on eBay.

shakran

Greedo shooting first doesn't even make sense. He's sitting 1 foot away from Han with a weapon that's even more impossible to dodge than a bullet, and he doesn't HIT Han when he shoots first?

Charlatan

I can't believe you just compared George Lucas to Shakespeare...

Kadath

The comparison was more "Star Wars to Romeo and Juliet", but the point is still valid. Maybe "if Coppola redid the Godfather trilogy" would be a better analogy.

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Cynthetiq

Coppola did get bitten by the bug, Apocalypse Now: Redux.

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shakran

Actually, you both missed the point. The point was, tampering with the classics rarely makes the classic better.

Kadath

Yeah, I think putting the works of Shakespeare on the same plane as Star Wars is what spurred the debate. I'll agree they're both classics, but the term clearly has degrees.

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Bonesaw

Yuppers....and I watch the originals with my 3 year old son all the time and he's never seen the SE versions.

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Fire

ya know- the SE should have been my clue that lucas was headed down the shittube- fuck, Howard the duck, SE, EP 1, Ep 2, I grew up with the OT, and am constantly shocked by how much george has let me down........

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Cynthetiq

really?

did you forget that he was part of Indiana Jones franchise and also Willow?

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Derwood

I'll try to paraphrase what I said in the Box Set thread:

Lucas has fallen in love with his own innovations. He is now all style and no substance. I think that Peter Jackson proved that a filmmaker can create a lush, fantastic epic film without 650 effects shots and 100% digital backgrounds. In fact, Jackson used many techniques that Lucas was using in the 70's and 80's (filming miniatures, using matte compositing, etc.)

What made the original films great WASN'T the special effects or the battle scenes or what have you. It was the story. It was the characters. What the new films lack is just that. There is no rogue (Han), there is no smart ass (Leia). Everyone is very straight forward and cold.

Somewhere Lucas was led astray and thinks that SW fans want dazzle instead of substance. We don't want 3 prequels that are about politics and government (which they plots really are when you look at them). We could give a shit about trade federations and the galactic senate. What the original films had (and what LOTR had, which made them great) was a clear and present danger that had to be eliminated by the underdog. The prequels have no such things.

I'll wrap up this rant by saying that in all my life, I never thought I'd say that there were films that were better than the SW trilogy, but I'm starting to leave them behind.

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Kostya

Or maybe the thought of that just makes me want to DIE. Except if he improved Godfather Part III, by unmaking it.