The Lord of the Rings discussion thread -SPOILERS INSIDE-

[KWSN]

you should put a spoiler tag in that, frankgrimes

[Outlander36]

That was an AWESOME ending... Extremely well done.

[archer2371]

Originally posted by bltzkriegmcanon
thank you. I'm glad someone in this thread has actually read the book, done their homework, and can comment intelligently on a part that some might not comprehend and feel jaded because of. It's a little thing called: Spoiler: Impossible odds = use of every resource available

I sure hope I can comment intelligently on this since I'm doing my English Research Paper on Tolkien and I've been reading a lot of literary criticisms, biographies, and his works as well.

[hulk]

The ending doesn't go on too long, I found, it's just that it appears to end every 10 seconds =) The people in the audience when I saw it last night kept applauding, then stopping, then starting. It was...surreal. Amazing flick, though!

[gnort]

Well hopefully all us Tolkien readers will be a little happier when the Extended Edition comes out. The original cut of the movie was 4 hours 50 minutes, so it will probably be about that long if not longer. Hopefully it will include the Scouring of the Shire...

[Mr.Deflok]

I am very, very surprised at the lack of posts in this thread, the Reloaded thread amassed a huge number of posts in a short amount of time, then again more people hated that film and the haters are always the most vocal.

[cetacean]

I loved this movie, but I agree that the ending could have been done differently. I understand that you want to cover everything in the book, but this is a movie not a book. Some things don't translate well to the big screen. This is why movies rarely are an accurate depiction of a book.

[Mantus]

Originally posted by Mr.Deflok
I am very, very surprised at the lack of posts in this thread, the Reloaded thread amassed a huge number of posts in a short amount of time, then again more people hated that film and the haters are always the most vocal.

The answer to your dilemma is that it was a “good” film. Not a great film.

It is true that it is much easier to hate. But it is also rather hard to praise something, which is not quite praise worthy.

I would give it a 7.5/10. Then again I am not a Tolken fan; just because he was the first of the fantasy genre doesn’t mean he is the best. So since I am not a Tolken fan I must judge the movie as a movie. It was defiantly better then the past two films. The story telling was at its best. The story developments and character interaction between all the action scenes was the most intresting part of the movie in my opinion. There were weak points though, besides Elijah Woods, but I wont spoil the movie by listing them.

BTW 7.5 does make it worth seeing in the theater.

Cheers.

[lions20]

Never seen any of them and don't care to.

[Semi-Normal]

Originally posted by Mr.Deflok
You're damn right that we god damn hate it!

Seconded!

[InTeGrA77]

I said it once, and I'll say it again. I loved this movie. I've seen it 3 times so far, and plan on going again soon!

Plus, I hear that the extended version has the Scouring of the Shire for sure.

[Mr.Deflok]

Originally posted by Semi-Normal
Seconded!

LOL, nice to see some more NZ folk here, enjoy!

Back to topic...

[nine]

Originally posted by Mr.Deflok
You're damn right that we god damn hate it!

But why would you want to call a New Zealander a Brit anyway? Just shows ignorance on the part of the person getting it wrong rather that a dislike of the British by New Zealanders I'd have thought.

[Mr.Deflok]

It's worse when they think NZ is an island of Australia.

[Baldrick]

Originally posted by shred_head
It reminded me of watching Spoiler: Trinity die again, just fucking die already.

The [SPOILER] tags are your friend. Not all of us, like me, have seen this movie you speak of, and were expecting/hoping the only spoilers were on Lord of the Rings.

[Sion]

Originally posted by InTeGrA77
Plus, I hear that the extended version has the Scouring of the Shire for sure.

I read somewhere (I think it was in the Columbus Dispatch the week the film came out) that the Scouring of the Shire is NOT in the extended version in any way, shape or form. This article claimed that Jackson hated that part of the books and thus felt no need to film it for the movies.

Dont get your hopes up.

[mercury-hg]

aye, i've heard from many sources that the scouring was never even filmed, so there's no chance of it being included.

[legolas]

Yes, the scourging won't be in the extended and there was some part in the movie that actually contradicted that part happening.

[gibingus]

Disappointing to hear that the scouring of the shire won't be in the extended, i left the theater expecting that they would add it there. I guess they left Tom Bobadil completely out of Fellowship also, and no one seemed to pitch a fit over that. I would have liked to seen how they morphed him into a bear.

I was rather surprised that PJ and crew opted to have the dragged-out ending, basically 30 minutes of curtain calls in warm lighting which didn't move the story anywhere, and not use the time to stay true to the books with the anticlimax. i did like that he ended it with Sam though.

The other cool things that were totally dropped were the development of the Eowin/Faramir relationship in the infirmary and then the politics of Aragorn's ascention to the throne. Hopefully those will make the extended version.

I really liked the visualization of the army of the dead. I was looking forward to seeing how they were going to do that. What was missing was how the other characters react to Aragorn leading them, it is very cool in the book how that scares the hell out of everyone and shows his transformation from ranger to king. I guess they used the sword for that device, which was fine and dandy, but Tolkein's version has a more powerful impact.

I also thought moving Shelob into the third installment was a good move for the film adaptation. Frodo and Sam's journey through Mordor as written would have had awful pacing and been a real bore visually. All the drama in the book is in Frodo's mental conflict (nicely shown with the Gollum scenes) and the increasing weight of bearing the ring's burden. Great reading, but almost impossible to depict.

p.s. if a moderator wants to mark out where i may have spoiled, please feel free. i couldn't decide for myself.

[onodrim]

Originally posted by Spinach_Indeed
Yes. Sweet Jesus. The scene with Pippin's song was one of the most moving cinimatic moments I've had the pleasure of seeing in a theatre.

Does anyone know the title of Pippin's song? I would go look in the books to get a general idea, but I can't remember if that's actually in the book and even then.. I doubt they'd have the title.

To elaborate on an answer already given - The lyrics are from a poem sung by Pippin in the first book, Fellowship of the Ring. The song in its entirety is about three verses long and written by Bilbo to talk about adventure in general. In the book it's quite light hearted; the hobbits are traveling together and having a good laugh. (Chapter III - Three is Company, Fellowhsip of the Ring, for those who are interested. )
I agree that what they did with the lines of the poem in the movie is one of the greatest moments of the film, truly moving. So good in fact that I made it my signature. It's amazing how words can change when you alter the setting in which they're said.

Originally posted by BuddyHawks
Fantastical movie. I loved the whole thing. I was crying from the lighting of the beacons till the end. Only thing the irked me was Frodo's stupid face he made once he got on the elven boat at the end. He was grinning at his compations for twenty seeconds and looked retarded. oh well

I too was crying from the beacons on.

The reason Frodo was smiling at the end was because he was finally at peace. It wasn't that he was happy to leave his friends or anything like that, afterall he was in essence dying. It was used to show that now Frodo can finally rest. The burden and pain that the ring and war have caused him is over, his whole being just really lightens, and it's a beautiful moment in my opinion. But of course, you have every right to disgree.

Originally posted by archer2371
Lasereth you're not alone, because I too wanted the movie to continue and not end. It's kind of like finishing the books, you know you can go back and do it again, but you want something more.

Totally understand. If you want something more, there's always The Simirillian and The Untold Tales, and The History of Middle Earth, etc. etc.....one day I'll get to those

[InTeGrA77]

Originally posted by Sion
I read somewhere (I think it was in the Columbus Dispatch the week the film came out) that the Scouring of the Shire is NOT in the extended version in any way, shape or form. This article claimed that Jackson hated that part of the books and thus felt no need to film it for the movies.

Dont get your hopes up.

dammit...I heard that it was, but I guess they were wrong.

does anyone know what WILL be included in the extended version??

[Lasereth]

I'm not sure of the extended version's content (well, I know that there is a few minutes of Saruman filming that was cut out), but I do know that it's supposed to be over 5 hours long including the cut-out footage. That's a long movie!

-Lasereth

[onodrim]

Well, I saw a confirmed report today on TORn (theonering.net) that put the extended edition at 4 hours 15 minutes. Not quite five hours, but still a nice sized movie to enjoy.
While nothing is confirmed, there's some speculation throughout the "Return of the King Movie Guide" on what may or may not be in the extended edition of RoTK which can be found on this site: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/
Plus, lots of cool and insightful information for anyone who wants to know everything about Tolkien they can.

[InTeGrA77]

thats a LOOONG movie!!!

[archer2371]

Oh believe me onodrim, I have been reading those books and I love them. I hope the Tolkien Estate releases all that stuff so Peter Jackson can make some more movies!

[onodrim]

Originally posted by archer2371
Oh believe me onodrim, I have been reading those books and I love them. I hope the Tolkien Estate releases all that stuff so Peter Jackson can make some more movies!

That would be awesome.

[Mehoni]

Just loved it. But then again, I'm a Tolkien-nut.

I especially loved Pippins song ("Steward of Gondor" on the soundtrack) and Eowyn.

[sadatx]

Loved the movie, but have a question for those of you who've read the books.

Why does Frodo have to leave Middle Earth in the end with Gandolf and the elves?

I understand that it has something to do with the fact that he carried the ring (as did Bilbo) and that it changed him. But is there a more detailed explaination about this in the books?

[Derwood]

I think the idea is that the Third Age of Middle Earth has come to an end with the death of Sauron, so now those who helped start the Fourth Age must leave Middle Earth to leave it to Aragorn and those who will build it. The elves, Gandalf, etc. have done their job, and now will move on.

[InTeGrA77]

It was also because of when he was stabbed at Weathertop by the Nazgul, the Morgul blade was still causing him pain.

Remember how he said how long it had been since he was stabbed at the end of the movie, and how it had never really healed? He had to leave Middle Earth because it would have continued to get worse there...I think...

[Sparhawk]

I took this out of the Encyclopedia of Arda, hope this helps:

The ending of The Lord of the Rings has caused a certain amount of confusion among readers and viewers alike. This is perhaps not completely surprising, because it's necessary to know a little of the history of Middle-earth to understand why Frodo steps onto the White Ship at the Grey Havens.

From the most ancient times, the Valar (the Powers of the World) had dwelt in the land of Valinor, in Aman beyond the Great Sea, called the Blessed Realm and the Undying Lands. Their lands of peace and plenty had once been part of the World, and they welcomed the first Elves there to enjoy their lives of immortal bliss. Through a chain of tragic events, though, some of the Elves rebelled against the Valar, and exiled themselves from Valinor by returning to Middle-earth. Among them were Galadriel and the ancestors of Elrond.

These exiled Elves fought a centuries-long war against the first Dark Lord, Sauron's master Morgoth, in which they were aided by certain houses of Men. After Morgoth's defeat, these Men were rewarded with a new home - the island of Númenor in the middle of the Sea, where they built the greatest and most powerful nation of Men to have ever existed.

Ultimately they became too great even for Sauron to meet in battle, so instead he used the power of his Ring to seduce the already corrupt King of Númenor, and persuaded him to launch an invasion of Aman itself. As Sauron had foreseen, the result of this foolish act was utter disaster for the Númenóreans, and their entire island home was destroyed. A few survivors, led by Elendil, escaped the destruction and returned to Middle-earth.

At the same time, Aman was 'taken away' from the world, so that it became impossible for mortals to sail there except by the special grace of the Valar. However, it was granted to the Elves to continue to travel there, so that an Elvish ship travelling into the West would eventually come to the green lands of the Blessed Realm. It's to Aman, then, that the Elves are travelling in The Lord of the Rings, never to return to Middle-earth. This explains Arwen's burden of regret and the difficulty of her choice - by refusing to sail from the Grey Havens, she gives up an eternity in paradise to stay with Aragorn.

The choice of those Elves who sailed on the White Ship was a simple one, then - indeed, for Galadriel, this would be a homecoming: she had been born in Valinor, and been among those exiled millennia before. It would be a homecoming for Gandalf, too, because the Wizards were actually Maiar, immortal beings of the same kind as the Valar themselves.

For Frodo, the two years he spent in the Shire after the Downfall of Barad-dûr were filled with suffering and regret. The wounds he had received on the journey continued to pain him, but worse than this was the memory of the Ring, which during the Quest had taken hold of his mind. "'It is gone for ever,' he said, 'and now all is dark and empty.'" (The Return of the King VI 9). Across the Sea, he could be freed from all this, so his decision to sail into the West is not perhaps so surprising. Being mortal, neither Frodo nor Bilbo could enjoy the unending lives of the other peoples of the Undying Lands, but they could live out their days free of the burden of the Ring.

[Cycler]

Yup that is what I thought Bilbo and Frodo were never free from the influence of the One Ring. Nice work Sparhawk.<p>Also there is nothing quite like watching Tolkein with Rednecks in the theater. Cheering at the screen, yelling at characters, really added something to the movie. Not sure what but something.

[sletrock]

Great info.

Thanks Sparhawk

[Sparhawk]

Originally posted by onodrim
Well, I saw a confirmed report today on TORn (theonering.net) that put the extended edition at 4 hours 15 minutes. Not quite five hours, but still a nice sized movie to enjoy.
While nothing is confirmed, there's some speculation throughout the "Return of the King Movie Guide" on what may or may not be in the extended edition of RoTK which can be found on this site: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/
Plus, lots of cool and insightful information for anyone who wants to know everything about Tolkien they can.

What I want from the Extended cut:

A good resolution to Saruman and Wormtongue (I *really* want to see that staff cracked, and Wormtongue throwing the palantir out of Orthanc).

A wrap-up romance with Eowyn and Faramir in the House of Healing.

There's a shot in the trailer of Eomer weeping while cradling someone, I assume his father. I'd love to see this.

I'd also really like to see the Denethor's palantir sub-plot. I think this would explain a lot about why he acts like such a madman in the movie.

I know we'll never get to see the Scouring, which is a disappointment (how awesome would it be to see these 4 hobbits just totally take control of a situation, especially Merry and Pippin, we've been watching those 2 basically get led around the last 12 hours...)

[Mr.Deflok]

Sparhawk, you rock.

[onodrim]

Sparhawk covered it. I hope that helps ya out.

[archer2371]

mmmmm. Encyclopedia of Arda makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. *looks around* Heh, heh, I clearly am not a geek, not at all... heh, heh.

[sadatx]

Originally posted by Sparhawk
I took this out of the Encyclopedia of Arda, hope this helps:

Heck yeah it helps. Thanks!

[metrodub]

Thanks for the information. Now I can explain it better to my wife!

[gilada]

Yeah, I'm glad they went the way they did. I haven't been blown away by Townsend's work.