Leto

So, Ann Coulter has come out and stated that her pronouncements are usually taken out of context, and that her schtick is an over the top style of patter that is designed to engender discussion. Along the lines of a less kinder, less gentle Steven Colbert. She said this in response to outrage this week during a 3 stop speaking tour of Canadian universities, where she told a female Muslim student at Western University to "take a camel" since she didn't have a flying carpet. This was to keep Muslims off of airplanes, something that Ann is famous for stating.

My question is: is this claimed stage act really a stage act? Or is she really that far out there? I get the feeling myself that she's just a fairly abrasive devil's advocate who makes a fairly good living at poking around a bee's nest.

Last night, her second speaking engagement at the University of Ottawa was cancelled due to protesters and the fear of security (of what? I'm not sure). Her next stop is in Alberta at the university of Calgary, where most people think that she will be welcomed with open arms, schtick or not.

What is your opinion TFP? actor or politician? Obviously I think the former, thus placing this thread in Entertainment. But isn't politics the biggest show on earth?

'Safety' fear shuts Ann Coulter speech - thestar.com

Safety fear shuts Ann Coulter speech

Darling of the U.S. right a no-show amid protests


Julian Beltrame
The Canadian Press

OTTAWA–Hundreds of screaming students succeeded in what few thought possible Tuesday night – silencing incendiary right-winger Ann Coulter.

Organizers for the American's tour of Canada scrubbed her much-anticipated speech at the University of Ottawa when students crowded the entrance before her arrival.

A spokesman for the organizers said about 2,000 "threatening" students posed a security threat to the darling of the American right, and she was advised against appearing.

"It would be physically dangerous for Ann Coulter to proceed with this event," said conservative political activist Ezra Levant.

Protest organizer Mike Fancie was happy the speech was halted.

"What Ann Coulter is practising is not free speech, it's hate speech," he said. "She's targeted the Jews, she's targeted the Muslims, she's targeted Canadians, homosexuals, women, almost everybody you could imagine."

Levant's announcement was greeted with shouts of "Shame" and "We want Ann" from about 100 who had managed to get into the hall. Outside students celebrated: "Nananana, nanana, Goodbye Ann Coulter."

About 10 Ottawa police cruisers were called to the scene, but there was no violence.

Even before the protesters arrived, there were signs the evening would not go smoothly.

A crush of bodies greeted organizers about 90 minutes before Coulter's 8:15 p.m. speaking time as about 1,000 showed up for the 400-seat hall. At about 7:30 a fire alarm was triggered.

Then hundreds of protesters arrived, mostly students carrying signs and chanting. There was no accurate head account, but one student said the protesters accounted for about several hundred while one event organizer estimated 2,000.

"Ann Coulter should go back to where she came from because we don't want her back here," shouted Ellen Ocran, a University of Ottawa student in a shouting match with a Coulter backer.

Levant blamed the bedlam on university academic vice-president Francois Houle, who wrote Coulter to warn her that Canadian laws make provisions for hate speech.

"Promoting hatred against any identifiable group would not only be considered inappropriate, but could in fact lead to criminal charges," he wrote in the letter, which Coulter leaked to the media.

The university has refused to comment since, but Levant said Houle's not-too-subtle advice to Coulter emboldened students to block her appearance.

"This is an embarrassing day for the University of Ottawa and their student body ... who chose to silence her through threats and intimidation," Levant said inside Marion Hall.

Coulter is a best-selling author and syndicated columnist who has been called one of the leaders of the angry right wing in the United States and who embraces the outrage she triggers, although she has often dismissed the ensuing controversy by suggesting she was trying to be humorous.

Coulter was in the middle of a three-city tour of Canada which began at the University of Western Ontario in London on Monday and ends in Calgary on Thursday.

The event in London went without incident, but not without controversy. When answering questions from students, Coulter told a 17-year-old Muslim student to "take a camel" instead of a the flying carpet she has previously suggested Muslims use for transportation.

And earlier on Tuesday, she protested, with a bemused smile, that she was the real victim.

"I've been a victim of a hate crime," she said in a CTV interview of Houle's letter. "I think he's accusing me of criminal proclivities."

If publicity was the goal of Coulter's Canadian tour, the trip has already been a smashing success.

She even got a mention in the House of Commons, with New Democrat MP Olivia Chow accusing the government of hypocrisy in allowing her into the country, after having given the boot to an ideological opposite.

Chow said the decision last year to bar British MP George Galloway, who has expressed pro-Palestinian views, shows the Tories have a double-standard on freedom of speech.

Immigration Minister Jason Kenney defended keeping Galloway out by noting his financial help to a terrorist group, Hamas.

"Hogwash," responded Chow.

"George Galloway has no criminal record. He can travel the United States, all over the world. What the minister is doing ... people he agrees with, fine come; people he doesn't agree with, you can't come."

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

Hektore

I can understand 'useful trolling' to a certain extent, prodding in uncomfortable ways to get a discussion going. It can be a useful tool if you can do it tactfully. I don't think she's that smart - and I also don't think it's an act. But, whether it's a shtick or not, many folks do think the way she claims to and it (to them)legitimises their racism and ridiculous level of xenophobia.

And for that, I despise her.

__________________
The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

Vaultboy

LoL I opened this thread thinking it related to Mrs Coulter from His Dark Materials. =/

__________________
"Failing tastes of bile and dog vomit. Pity any man that gets used to that taste."

Leto

I read that book. But sadly no. I also don't understand the gist of Hektore's useful trolling comment. Could be that I'm not savvy with the lingo. Is it uncomfortable?

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

Hektore

Sometimes, when a discussion isn't happening because of the reluctance of participants, if you adopt the right ridiculous position it can incite people to participate. Once participation is established, as a moderator, you can move the discussion into more useful or interesting realms.

//edit: As an example, suppose I wanted to discuss important aspects of why African American students score poorly on standardized tests compared to their Caucasian peers. Now, I could frame it in very reasonable terms and a perfectly acceptable discourse would take place in some place like TFP. Other places the discussion just would not happen, either because people don't care that much, or don't think it's a problem. In those places I could take the position that 'Black people are just stupid" and point to standardized testing as my proof. It would certainly inflame opinion, generate interest and if I play my cards right, eventually lead to the same sort of discussion. The difference is I look like an racist idiot in the process, but at least I got people to pay attention to it.

__________________
The advantage law is the best law in rugby, because it lets you ignore all the others for the good of the game.

roachboy

except that's not ann coulter's m.o. she is an appalling idiot who's status amongst conservatives is the sort of thing that makes it nearly impossible for anyone who's not a conservative in the united states to take conservatives in the united states even a little seriously.

better still, she's a racist idiot. and she's been a consistently racist idiot for some time. apparently being a racist idiot in america can make you wealthy.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Baraka_Guru

She's a professional racist....so, yes, she's "for real."

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Manic_Skafe

Actor - politician. There's no difference.

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

Baraka_Guru

I think the proper question is: actor or pundit?

I caught some of the Coulter stuff on CTV News at the gym last night. The title on the screen read "Political Pundit" and I nearly fell off the treadmill.

Anne Coulter a pundit? They're kidding, right? I'll accept "commentator," but that's being nice.

And the difference between "actor" and "politician": they both play on our emotions, except politicians make public policy.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Manic_Skafe

Sadly, this is the climate we're in. Marbles in the attic or not, this woman has considerable sway and a platoon of similarly retarded followers that not only soak up her every racist and xenophobic word but will eventually bring all of this to its ultimately violent conclusion.

She's not alone in all of this but she's certainly someone.

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

silent_jay

If she's entertainment like Colbert why is she on a news channel? It's like before with Red Eye and Gutfeld, they're excuse was it's just comedy, we're not really making fun of Canadian soldiers, but as long as they have news in the name, they're a news channel, much like Coulter, if she's just for entertainment why is most of her airtime on news channels, I mean otherwise she'd be like a less funny Lewis Black if she was an entertainer.

Baraka_Guru

It stops being entertainment when most of her fans take her seriously.

She's either a failed satirist or rabble-rousing propagandist. Take your pick.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Shauk

She's in the same camp as Beck, Limbaugh, and Hannity.

people I wouldn't hesitate to push off a bridge if I had a chance.

Seriously, that kind of hate speech needs to go away,

CandleInTheDark

Hate speech? I wouldn't consider Coulter's speech hateful in the sense that it incites violence against identifiable groups. Besides, hate speech doesn't go away, it is either out in the open or behind closed doors. I prefer it out in the open where it's proponents can be identified and their arguments disseminated and ridiculed for what they are.

That said, I would said that while Coulter may believe much of what she says, I think the vitriol and more extreme positions (as viewed from the right, not the left), are examples of a devil's advocate turned entertainer. I play Devil's Advocate often, and recognize some of the same characteristics when initiating such actions.

__________________
Where there is doubt there is freedom.

dippin

The name of the game is being controversial. People don't get radio shows or sell best sellers by being careful and even handed.

I've experienced this first hand with someone who is similar to Coulter: David Horowitz.

At one point, my alma mater invited him to campus and paid him his fee (I believe it was 5,000 plus expenses for a 1 hour talk plus time for questions). During his speech, someone disagreed with him on something or other and he dismissed the student by saying she was "half educated." After this, the student sent him a letter explaining in more detail what she meant, trying to have a conversation and so on. What did he do? Posted the letter online and mocked it on his website. Some people on campus were outraged. Then what did he try to do? He wanted to come to campus again, but wanted to be paid again. The university refused to pay him a second time within a year, but said that would gladly schedule a room and post a new talk on the school events' calendar. The university also sent an email to the student council that if they wanted to meet with him officially as the student council, that all should attend, as to avoid one or two students with an agenda (whatever that would be) acting as the entire student council without the rest of its members there. He used this as another article in his series against academia, claiming he was "banned" from campus and that the university prohibited students from meeting with him. All false, of course, but it got him on the local media numerous times.

When there is nothing to be gained by being reasonable, and a multi book deal by being a bigot, people will be bigots.

Plan9

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

FoolThemAll

Because news channels have entertainment shows these days.

Eh. Coulter's a little ambigious in how much of her act is a joke. At least to me, not having seen a whole lot of her act. Red Eye, on the other hand, is clearly just comedy. Bad comedy, granted.

__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.

Charlatan

Come on... Coulter is not presenting a Comedy Act. She is not Al Franken. She is not Colbert. She is not Stewart.

She is not playing for laughs.

To suggest that she is "ambiguous in how much of her act is a joke" is to not understand the distinction between a comic who uses politics as fodder for comedy and a political commentator who uses comedy as a way of delivering a message.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

FoolThemAll

Nah... you're missing the distinction between calling a politician a comedian and calling some portion of a politician's rhetoric intentionally comical. Please don't read ideas into my post that aren't there.

__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.

silent_jay

So then she just happens to make part of her 'act' comedic and it just happens to be the most hate filled part, like telling a Muslim girl who asks her about Coulters comment that Muslims can take 'magic carpets instead of planes' and when said girl says 'I don't have a magic carpet' Coulter says 'take a camel'.

I love how Coulter claims this is all an 'act', like she's a comedian, oh I'm on news channels, I write books about politics, but no I'm a comedian.

FoolThemAll

Yes, the most ridiculous parts just happen to be tongue-in-cheek, that's the possibility here. What exactly strikes you as overly convenient about that? Offensive jokes are still offensive. There's still a line that racist jokes can cross in delivery and content where one can reasonably suspect intent more hateful than comedic. And there's also the Carlos Mencia line, where merely invoking stereotypes won't automatically make you hilarious.

It wouldn't surprise me to find that Coulter crosses both lines on a regular basis. That doesn't mean that she isn't intently using comedy in a lot of her rhetoric. And conversely, that doesn't mean that she's magically immune from criticism as a result. Michael Richards sure as hell wasn't.

__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.

silent_jay

What makes it convenient? Well pretty convienient to say:
Then to say oh I'm a comedian even though I've never been on a comedy network or advertised myself as a comedian, and I've always made it pretty obvious I'm a political commentator, or saying
Yeah convenient to say oh that was all an act, I'm just a comedian. So that's how it is convenient to now say oh it's all an act, I'm not serious.

Even better quote from her 'act' last night in Calgary, 'Canada is the least diverse country I've ever been to, everyone here looks like me'
It's impressive people can actually be dumb enough to swallow this crap and pay money to listen to it, I mean they must have more money than brains.

FoolThemAll

If she keeps making these statements and keeps calling them reflections of a comedian, maybe they are. And maybe it's our fault for taking her seriously.

It's definitely our fault for caring about her. Know what I do about that idiot Olbermann? I ignore him. I'll bet Coulter loves the protests.

__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.

silent_jay

Of course she loves the protests her and Levant are nothing but attention whores, I mean look at the whole humans rights complaint she keeps talking about 5 bucks says she never files it.

Never heard her say this was an 'act' as much as she has recently, now suddenly it's all an act and she's just joking to get a reaction out of people, yet she always been on new stations, written books about politics not from a cemedians perspective but a political commentators perspective, but yeah she's a comedian not a political commentator of course.

From an interview with Evan Solomon on CBC:
Oh we can take a joke, but in order to laugh it has to be funny, as I mentioned to ottopilot in another thread, and it has to be intended as a joke, not an insult that she tries pawning off as a joke.

FoolThemAll

Insults and jokes aren't mutually exclusive.

For the record, I think Coulter is a mediocre pundit and/or a mediocre comedian.

__________________
I wonder if we're stuck in Rome.

silent_jay

I'd say she's a commentator at best, pundit gives the impression she actually uses facts to back up what she says, which she wouldn't know a fact if it kicked her in the head.

Here's the hate speech laws in Canada
Hate speech laws in Canada - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Poppinjay

Can I convince you guys to take her?

Honestly, I like conservative philosophy, because it has a place in our society.

But Ann, Jebus. Take her. TAKE HER NOW.

Or as kitties say NAO.

__________________
I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

Baraka_Guru

Uh... even if you promised to keep Celine Dion, I...just...don't...know.....

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

silent_jay

Could we throw in Pierre McGuire, he's American anyways but seems to be here too much, so it's Coulter for Dion and McGuire.

Apparently based on this comment she doesn't know what goes on in BC, or she's just stoned during her speeches.
CBC News - Media - Coulter's Calgary cry: 'Save the good Canadians'
I like how she finds somehting to say about a country and just keeps going, seems during this trip it's been all about the 'great comedians' we have sent them over the years. I mean Canadians are great at taking jokes, we just need something funny to be said in order to laugh, not a political commentator trying to now pawn herself off as a comedian.

pan6467

I think she's just the beginning. AS THE ELECTIONS APPROACH AND THE GOP desperately wants to win... look for Limbaugh, Hannity, O'reilly, Faux News and so on (except Beck) to start toning things down, becoming more "sensitive" and "admitting half of all their rhetoric was just for ratings"... They "believe in what the say, but not to the extremes they say them."

They'll word their "mea culpas" in ways to not offend their die hard followers but enough to try to change moderates opinions of them so that in their minds, they may actually win in Nov. And it quite possibly may work, as I see their ratings going up when they do this because people will want to see them "slip up and show who they really are again" and in the process find the "moderate" versions may be very selling.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"