crow_daw

OK, this thread is similar to the Donnie Darko one, but I'm posting it anyway because I really want some insight.
I'm a Lynch fan overall, but what the HELL was goin on in Mulholland Drive?
Now, granted, I've only seen it once, and this may be a factor.
C'mon yall, help me out.

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Slims

I thinnk it was David Lynch trying to be David Lynch, rather than just trying to make a good movie.

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XenuHubbard

I really liked it. As for cinematic qualitites - well, when I watch a David Lynch-film, I switch off my brain altogether. It's nice to visit somebody elses fantasies sometimes.

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Spanky Johnson

I said WTF after watching the first time as well. Try watching again, keeping in mind (my interpretation):

• Part of it isn't "real life".
• It isn't linear

Also, pay attention to characters that are played by the same actors, but are different people/have different personalities in different parts of the movie.

diergray

It was first filmed as a tv pilot. That is why certain characters (i.e. the cop) make an appearance then never come back. None of the tv channels would pick it up so he added the lesbian scene etc. and sold it as a movie.

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CSflim

Man, i love Mulholland Drive. It is one of my favourite movies ever. It is incredibly dense with sybolism.
It is indeed a very difficult movie. After watching it the first time, I felt that I understood the basic story line, but that about two thirds of the secenes were completely unrelated to anything, and just random additions. Watching it the second time however made the meanings of these scenes apparent to me.
Contrary to what many people say, THE FILM MAKES PERFECT SENSE! That being said, it must be seen as abstract, sybolism triumphs over logic and coherence. I will expalin briefly what I believe the plot to be about below:


**MAJOR Spoliers Below**









The first part of the film (up to the point where the camera gets sucked into the green box), involving Betty and Diane is a dream. The dreamer is Diane, who is "Betty". In her dream she fantasised about living a new life, as this character called Betty. Many elements from her real life end up in her dream, but are vastly distored, following "dream logic". As you may have noticed in your own dreams, things don't always make complete sense when you wake up, but at the time, they were fully logical. Similarly, in the dream, many ilogical things happen, but they still happen for a reason, from Betty/Diane's point of view at least.
In this dream, she fantasises about being reunited with her ex-lover: Camilla, who in her dream loses her memory, and takes on the name Rita. In this dream, Diane puts Camilla into a situation where she is vunerable, and completely dependant on her... just the way she likes it.
After Diane wakes up, we are left with a montage of flash back, mixed with "real time" scenes. I plan to watch the film a third time to ascertain the exact chronological order of these flash backs. But it is not really vital to understanding the story. It shows that Diane was completely infatuated with Camilla, but Camilla after a brief relationship, rejected her, and in fact, got married. Camilla, in a jealous rage orders a hit on Camilla. She then has the strange dream that we see. She wakes up, and remembers the real tragedy of events...everything is NOT ok as it was portrayed in her fantasy. She is NOT the bright eyed innocent young Betty. She is overcome with guilt, and kills herself. (She was obviously feeling suicidal before she started dreaming).

Now with what I have said in mind, I advise you to watch again, and you may get more out of the film. I have left many details out, but that can all be figured out quite easily. I will explain in more detail my idea of the meaning behind some of the dream scenes below. My advice: Don't read them until you have tried for yourself to figure them out. Watch the film again, and then come back.



***Even More Spoliers Below!*****











Just a brief word on what I believe some of the more specific scenes in Mulholland Drive "mean". And I use the word losely...this is a dream after all.

The director. The mafia-like influence on the film. the shadyness. the phone calls. The "Godfather" like figure. These are all, images suggesting that the movies are run by higher powers. People who are inacessible. Puppet masters who pull the strings. "This is the girl!". It was not Diane's fault that she didn't get the leading role! Diane is a victim! Its "not" that she is an inferior actress Larger forces are at work.

The Assassin. The black book. Shooting the hover and setting off the sprinklers. Diane paid an Assassin to kill Camilla. But as it turns out, this Assassin is a bumbling idiot!. He ends up killing two innocent people. Its obvious he's going to get caught. Maybe Camilla isn't doomed, seeing as how this assassin is so incompetent!. Whats the balck book? Who knows! Its just a misplaced detail by Diane. The assassin presuambly needs this book in order to carry out his mission. Why? No reason...dream logic. When Diane was paying the assassin in real life, we see that he is carrying a book. Its the same book. Diane adopted this detail, and incorporated it into her dream.


The guy talking about his nightmare in the cafe. The monster/homeless guy. The cafe is the place where Diane paid the assassin. Another real life detail incorporated into her dream. He place is an EVIL place. Diane is innocent! It was the evil place/monster that "willed" her into taking out the hit! Notice that when in the diner, Diane meets a waitress called Betty. When in the diner, betty meets a waitress named Diane.

The key/the box. The key is another "borrowed" item from Dianes life. She will recieve the key when the job is done. When she asks "What does it open?", the assassin just laughs. In her dream, she answers this question: It opens a box. When the box is opened, the deed is done. The evil monster is the keeper of the box. He is evil. It is all his fault, not Dianes!.

Rita's money. Where did all that money come from? It is yet another, "borrowed" item. It is the money that Diane paid the Assassin. The money becomes associated with Cammilla/Rita so it is "logical" that she would have the money. Dream logic again. The key is also associated with Camilla, so she has that also.

Silencio: What was that whole club about? The dream is coming to an end. This world is not real, ne pas es bande! Diane has to wake up, and face the real world. The apperance of the box represents this. Once the box is open, the deed is done, the fantasy is shattered, and she must wake up.

So thats my take on the film. As you may have guessed, the aboce italics are sort of ,sarcastic! They aren't the truth, they are what Diane believes, or tries to make herself believe, with her dream.
So any thoughts? Any queries?

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Batman976

Here are David Lynch's 10 clues to understanding the movie:

1) Pay particular attention to the beginning of the film: at least two clues are revealed before the credits.

2) Notice appearances of the red lampshade.

3) Can you hear the title of the film that Adam Kesher is auditioning actresses for? Is it mentioned again?

4) An accident is a terrible event... Notice the location of the accident.

5) Who gives a key, and why?

6) Notice the robe, the ashtray, the coffee cup.

7) What is felt, realised and gathered at the club Silencio?

8) Did talent alone help Camilla?

9) Note the occurrences surrounding the man behind 'Winkies'

10) Where is Aunt Ruth?

Uuudar

The first time I saw the movie it was a total mindfuck. I got it all the second time. It's still weird I think, but it was good in some weird-twisted-fucked up way. hah

CrotchrocketSlm

Just think of it as an art film with certain narrative aspects instead of a narrative film with art film aspects and you should be fine (says the guy who studied film analysis in school).

quest1mark

eather way naomi watts is a amazing.

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Batman976

No doubt!

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Hal Incandenza

When I saw this thread I was terrified that it was going to be a bunch of people ripping on a movie that they were too dumb to understand...I stand corrected. And I'm glad to do so. Mulholland Drive is a great movie, Lynch's best since Blue Velvet (though The Straight Story comes awfully close). One of the things that's so great about it is that it demands an interpretation on the part of the viewer. You can't sit there and simply watch it--you have to attempt to make sense out of it, which I think is the purpose of a lot of great art. Everyone below (especially CSfilm) offers a lot of great strategies for watching this movie, so sit back and let it fuck with your head for a while, then try to explain what you've just seen. It's a movie that makes you work as much as it does, which I love.

tooka

im a lynch fan from way back but.........i liked it the first time as lost highway.

Sion

Lynch tries too hard . As a result, his movies, which COULD be masterpieces, end up being confused messes.

Mullholland Drive is a perfect example. All the necessary ingredients were there to make a film that would be revered for ages as a masterpiece of modern cinema. But Lynch just had to be himself and fuck it all up.

sorry, cant stand his movies. I understand them just fine, just cant stand em.

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blah-uh

I couldnt stand this movie, my girlfriend loves it and has it on DVD but I'll never watch it again.

Atomsk

Mulholland Drive was nothing more than a poorly crafted vehicle for a disturbingly sycophantic female maturbation scene.

CSflim

Just wondering if you could explain why you hate them? In what way did Lynch "fuck up" Mulholland drive? In what way would you improve it?

Just wondering.

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Kush

Lynch is like a movie extremist. I don't think he ever wants you to understand his movies. And that's why they're great =D

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Sion

"Just wondering if you could explain why you hate them? In what way did Lynch "fuck up" Mulholland drive? In what way would you improve it?"


check out this review/explanation of the film:

http://dir.salon.com/ent/movies/feat...sis/index.html

now, everything that is great about this film is fully explained therein (such as the commentary on the falseness of hollywood and the social satire that permeates the movie). as is everything that I detest about the film (and pretty much all of Lynch's work). basically, it comes down to the simple fact the Lynch revels in obfuscation and intentionally confusing storytelling. His movies are always a puzzle, peppered liberally with red herrings, designed from the get-go to be as confusing hard to follow as possible. Now, I dont mind a bit of mystery, even a misdirection in a film, but Lynch takes it way too far. Its like an inside joke that all your friend keep telling, but none will ever fill you in on why its funny. All he had to do to make this a masterpiece, imho, was be a bit more straightforward. dont make the viewer have to work so damned hard to understand it.

from a technical standpoint, his work is exemplary. the cinematography is always beautiful, the acting superb, the direction crisp and to the point. its the stories themselves, or rather, the way he tells them, that drive me batty. as I said, I dont mind a little mystery in a film, but Lynch is just over the top, mysterious just for the sake of being mysterious. I dont see how it serves any purpose, except to make him a cult figure, whose fans are a clique-y sort that look down on those who dont revere his work. it feels too elitist for me.


oh, and as was mentioned Naomi Watts was fucking phenomenal in this flick.

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eris

If Lynch's films don't make me think he has failed.

I'm a HUGE Lynch fan - and I believe that MD is among his best. I think that most of my opinions of the plot have been expressed above.

Does anyone here subscribe to his website? I have been for a while but haven't explored too much...

Also - anyone know what David is up to next?

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allhaileris

^dude

Yeah its very confusing, gotta love the lesbian scene though.

CSflim

Simply not true. This film is very well plotted, and has a very definite meaning. Admittedly that meaning is purposely obscured, but thats the whole fun of the film. Trying to figure it out. Have watched it three times so far, and each time I got more and more out of it. Totally plan to watch it again!
Admittedly, this movie is not for everyone. Now I don't mean that in a pretentious "you're to stupid to understand" kind of way. But rather some people enjoy this type of movie, others do not. I love a puzzle.
Now, i am not the sort of person who reads too much into things. I am always aware of this. I despise all of Warhols "films" becasue to me they are just a pretentious twat taking the piss out of his audience. What I hate even more is the fact that dumbass "arty" (read: pretentious) types enjoy reading so much into a 6 hour long film of a skyscraper, claiming that Warhol is "reinterpreting the role of film as a visual mediem". Bullshit!
That being said, I could write a hell of a lot about my interpretation of Mulholland Drive. the film is so incredibly dense, every single tiny detail has some bearing on the overall "whole". however, I am not reading too much into it. Lynch has obviously placed all of these things here. I certaintly wouldn't give the credit to my feeble immagination!

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CSflim

Thats just the point. I loved the fact that it was a bit difficult to follow. As I said already, I loved the mystery of it.
I don't hold it against it that it needs to be watched at least twice to be properly understood, but plenty of fims are like that.

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World's King

The first time I saw this movie I saw it with my mother. Not a good movie to be watching with your own mother. It wasn't the lesbian sex stuff that was weird for me with her in the room... it was that mother kept asking me what the fuck was going on every two minutes. And all I could say was, "I have no clue."

Now that I've watched a few more times I've gotten the oppertunity to watch closely and catch things I had missed... like the whole film. It makes sense if you let yourself go and just pay attention to the love story that comes up in the end. Understand?

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Porkchop

I have had this movie for a while now and have not got round to watching it yet.

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Lestat

That scene is an all time great! Naomi Watts is a major hottie.

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GakFace

Same thing for people that watched Fight club... So many people had to watch its 2 or 3 times to figure out what was going on.

This movie (fight club too ) is a great movie. The jumping around is a nice touch, I don't think I would have enjoyed it as much if it was linear. It makes it kinda a mystery as you're trying to put it all together, and then you see the full puzzle, and then start to work backwords... In the end you're trying to find the 500th peice of a 1000 peice puzzle... thats just awesome

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blanks

There needs to be much more of this kind of progressive movie making. Enough of the same tired and recycled plots, mindless content and passive movies that makes 90% of new releases. This movie rocks.

-=shikamaru=-

Agree with above.

One thing I noticed was that the acting in the begginning was intentionally bad, then Naomi Watts was just amazing after a while.

or is it just me?

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Kostya

After watching this movie I was appalled that it is hailed as a masterpiece.

Personally I think it is a heap of shit...

I mean, as far as I can tell, and having gone through all the agaonising details and read numerous interpretations of the film, the major theme was one about the lack of reality in cinema and Hollywood...

Lynch cops out and utilises the old 'dream' scenario in order to indulge himself in a series of obvious, garish and insultingly contrived metaphors and symbols in order to point out that Hollywood is fake...

Gee thanks...

I'd argue more, but it would require me going to watch this crap film yet again...

roachboy

mulholland drive....so much talk from friends before i saw it--i had grown tired of lynch--i liked eraserhead and blue velvet, then hated the next one, which i have erased almost entirely from my brain.

mulholland drive was cliffnotes hamlet plus cliffnotes freud.

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Stompy

I love all Lynch films.

I like the fact that his movies are puzzles. No one else does that. You watch it 4 or 5 times trying to figure it all out, and when you do, it's amazing.

Yeah, he could be more straightforward, but that wouldn't be as fun I don't like everything handed to me. Some stuff (or in this case, pretty much everything) I like to figure out on my own.

*shrug* It's all preference. Whether you personally like his movies or not, they're still widely recognized as some of the best ever.

I can't wait to see what he comes out with next.

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Kostya

No no no no no!

So what if his movies are puzzles. Lynch dicking around, trying to get a rise out of his viewers is not art, it's not original, it's not brilliant, it's a gimmick, and a bad one at that. His films offer nothing beyond their own self indulgent cleverness, there's nothing in them which is inspired or important or entertaining...

If you enjoy working out puzzles, feel free, but David Lynch is not one of the best of all time...

roachboy

well, no--in a world that has alphaville in it, or lady from shanghai, or solaris (the original) or...well any number of other films that i could remember were i not so tired, there is no point in trying to make lynch films more interesting than they are....watch other, cooler, smarter stuff. last year at marienbad. there is lots of it....

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Ella

This movie blows me away. I didn't get it first time, went away and did some reading and then watched it again a couple of times. He is such a visionary. That scene in the theatre where 'Llorando' is sung moves me to tears each time.

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djflish

It's taken me a while, but i finally got around to watching this movie, and my first thoughts...WTF??!!!
Thank god for the TFP!
I probably won't be able to come up with an opinion of my own for a few days now, so thank you CSFilm,
your comprehensive post has prevented a migraine...

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sailor

I just watched this movie for the first time, and like everyone else, was thoroughly confused, though after reading the Salon article and this thread, it makes a bit more sense...

A few thoughts, not all of them positive. Admittedly I need to see it again to really pay attention to it now that I know what the *hell* was going on there, and I havent seen any other Lynch movies either.

1) Movies that a wierd are great. So are movies that keep you guessing. So are movies where it all comes together in the end with a giant "aha!". Ones that still dont make much sense after viewing are more annoying than anything else. Getting deeper with repeated viewings is great; requiring repeated viewings just to figure out basic plot elements is ridiculous.
2) Little things that make *no* sense (like the little box) except as an inside joke for the director are no good.

This is coming from a guy who really loves wierd movies, and who loves Kubrick--very wierd. But some of this stuff just makes *no* sense. With Kubrick, when you get it, you get it. With this, it seems like you get it, but then there are all these little things in there that you dont get, and dont seem like they were ever meant to be understood. I really dont like that. Movies (and books) that take a reading to understand are fine, and movies and books that get deeper and deeper with every encounter are better; but movies and books that make little sense at all afterwards arent.

Basically Im just ranting, and admittedly would like to see it again to try to pick up some more of the film. Id have to say I think that while it certainly was good, it was definitely a bit overrated.

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franzelneekburm

My all-time favorite movie: the intricate plot, surreal feel and campy humor of a Lynch movie, plus copious lesbian sex - what could be better?

franzelneekburm

I think a few of the more specific details you mentioned are a little "overanalyzed" Don't forget, this was originally supposed to be a pilot for a series that was never picked up, so it's quite likely that a lot of these minor episodes were setups for plot lines that would develop later.

Trying to figure out the symbolism for some of them is a little like trying to figure out who killed Laura Palmer, or what the significance of the one armed man is, after watching the pilot episode of Twin Peaks - you just don't have enough information.

I don't remember the exact chronology (haven't seen it in a while), but I don't think all the scenes before the box being opened were meant to be part of the dream. While they reinforce and explain parts of the dream sequences, I believe the scenes that don't actually have Betty and/or Rita in them are "real life"; I think one of the clues was the sound - real world scenes have music (eg the large enforcer fellow looking for Adam), while the dreams ones just have a low hum/rumble in the background.

Actually, that's a thought - were there any scenes that had Rita in them but not Betty (after they met up in the house, of course)?

franzelneekburm

I think you spoke too soon.