Explain American censorship rationally - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

highthief · 11-22-2007, 07:15 PM

OK, so last night I watched Dodgeball (the Ben Stiller/Vince Vaughn movie) on a Canadian station - probably CITY TV. I had never seen the movie before and found it funny, especially at the end when the little blond girl's girlfriend blows into town after the tournament and they kiss on screen, leading to a lesbian/bisexual joke.

Tonight, the same movie was on FOX so I watched again as I missed the first part and the wife had not seen it at all. Throughout the movie, many jokes are made of a sexual nature, and the team is depicted in full S&M get up (a joke is even made about submissives). At the end of the film, I am expecting the two girls to kiss - they have shown other kisses already in the film - but they cut that out. They still make a les/bi joke but don't show the actual kiss.

So, basically - WTF? That is such a weird thing to censor - especially as there have been plenty of lesbian kisses on screen in prime time on US network. Is it a FOX thing? Or a more general American thing?

ratbastid · 11-22-2007, 07:30 PM

Fox has no problem pushing the edge of what's allowable. And same-sex intimacy is absolutely not allowable on the US airwaves. They'd have the standards board all over them in a heartbeat.

Explain that rationally? When violence, murder, and dead bodies are perfectly acceptable? I can't--it's not rational.

Mister Coaster · 11-22-2007, 07:32 PM

The religious right wing politicians, period. They "know what's bad for your soul" and therefore won't expose it to the US public. Everyone knows lesbianism is the path to Satan, come on.

But, yeah. There is no rational explanition.

Charlatan · 11-22-2007, 07:38 PM

Wow. I knew that there was self-censorship occurring but I didn't think something of this nature would constitute something censurable.

That said, a lot more would be censored from the film if it were to air here.

Plan9 · 11-22-2007, 08:17 PM

America: Decapitation is cool to show a 14 year old yet boobies are a no-no.

Go figure.

Baraka_Guru · 11-22-2007, 09:25 PM

Explain American censorship rationally.

The American Puritan Restoration is already underway.

spectre · 11-23-2007, 12:32 AM

I tend to rant about this topic pretty often, but I'll keep it short. Basically, in the early days of television there wasn't much choice (only a couple channels) so the government put someone in charge of regulating what should be allowed on the air. The man that they chose was very puritanical. To give you some idea of how puritanical, just look at shows like "Mary Kay and Johnny" and "I Love Lucy" which broke barriers which now seem ridiculous and idiotic. One barrier that they broke was having a married couple sharing a bed. Yup, you read that right, up until that point, married couples were shown sleeping in separate beds because if they shared a bed, then that meant that they had sex, and that kind of smut wasn't suitable for television.

Another barrier that they broke was having a pregnant Lucy on the show. The executives were extremely uncomfortable having a pregnant woman on the air and finally allowed it after Lucy and Desi consulted priests and rabbis who said they didn't find it morally objectionable. Despite this, they were never allowed to say she was "pregnant," only that she was "expecting."

They've slowly lightened up and allowed more realistic content, but despite all of the advances over the years, the rules are still very uptight.

Charlatan · 11-23-2007, 12:42 AM

I thought Carol and Mike Brady were the first TV couple to appear in the same bed.

highthief · 11-23-2007, 03:24 AM

But what is so weird to me is there is a ton of sexual innnuendo in the show, and lesbianism/homosexuality is referenced - they just don't want to show a same-sex kiss (although that barrier was broken ages ago both on primetime and daytime television).

Anyway, I don't go in for comedies much but I thought Dodgeball was worth a few chuckles.

Halx · 11-23-2007, 03:31 AM

My first reaction is to say, "No, I wont rationalize it. I don't even agree with it." However the networks have to a) fit the movie into a length suitable for television advertisements and b) make the movie suitable for young children to watch. Suitable is defined in a very puritanical sense. This is because the wrong people are in charge.

spectre · 11-23-2007, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

I thought Carol and Mike Brady were the first TV couple to appear in the same bed.

Nope. Even Lucy and Ricky shared a bed in "I Love Lucy" long before Carol and Mike Brady.

Psycho Dad · 11-23-2007, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spectre

Nope. Even Lucy and Ricky shared a bed in "I Love Lucy" long before Carol and Mike Brady.

I thought it was Bob and Emily Newhart. I remember Lucy and Ricky having twin beds.

And I'd apologize for the off topic but there is no way to rationally explain why we need protection from seeing two people of the same sex sharing a kiss on TV.

Plan9 · 11-23-2007, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Dad

...rationally explain why we need protection from seeing two people of the same sex sharing a kiss on TV.

DISCLAIMER: Just as long as it isn't two dumpy dudes with handlebar mustaches tonguing it out.

...

I can't handle that.

Psycho Dad · 11-23-2007, 09:50 AM

I'd rather see two fat men in wife beaters and boxer shorts kissing than the continued stereotype that gay men hang out in bars dressed like Judas Priest fan club rejects.

Even television shows that aren't subject to censorship do that. Look what The Sopranos did with Vito.

Plan9 · 11-23-2007, 10:03 AM

/joke

...

I like the laugh track associated with interracial relationships on TV, myself.

"But she's just... so... black."

...

Well, I'm going to watch Predator on TV... nothing in that movie to censor if you live in America!

spectre · 11-23-2007, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Dad

I thought it was Bob and Emily Newhart. I remember Lucy and Ricky having twin beds.

They did have twin beds. I'm pretty sure that they eventually switched to a single bed though.

Just to try to end the thread jack, here's the snopes article about it: http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/marykay.asp

Telluride · 11-23-2007, 02:51 PM

Censorship sometimes makes no sense. I've seen things on TV where words like "bitch" and "ass" were allowed, but "god" in the phrase "god damn it" was bleeped out.

Mith · 11-23-2007, 09:08 PM

No rational explanation for it. Rich Steves goes through Europe. He visits some incredibly well-known art exhibits. Unfortunately, here in the United States portrayal of the human form in its natural state is "dirty". This is particularly frustrating for the producers and Rick, these are things that everyone should be able to see. Ah well, 'tis the nature of the beast.

Plan9 · 11-23-2007, 09:10 PM

Didn't Ashcroft demand some statue's bare breast be covered with a sheet during a conference or something? Talk about prude. Lady Justice's teet was too much for him to handle before he went back to his Girls Gone Wild collection.

Sion · 11-25-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psycho Dad

I'd rather see two fat men in wife beaters and boxer shorts kissing than the continued stereotype that gay men hang out in bars dressed like Judas Priest fan club rejects.

Even television shows that aren't subject to censorship do that. Look what The Sopranos did with Vito.

just a couple facts that you may or may not be aware of:

1. Rob Halford is gay.
2. There are lots of gay men who do the leather thing. There are bars/clubs where that is the norm for the clientele.

so, while it's a stereotype to suggest that ALL gay men are like that, its is true that some portion are.

Psycho Dad · 11-25-2007, 02:50 PM

Rob Halford is gay? The hell you say!

MSD · 11-25-2007, 03:39 PM

There is no rational reason to believe that it is right for anyone other than a parent raising a child to decide what others should and should not be exposed to.

11-22-2007, 07:15 PM	#1 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	Explain American censorship rationally OK, so last night I watched Dodgeball (the Ben Stiller/Vince Vaughn movie) on a Canadian station - probably CITY TV. I had never seen the movie before and found it funny, especially at the end when the little blond girl's girlfriend blows into town after the tournament and they kiss on screen, leading to a lesbian/bisexual joke. Tonight, the same movie was on FOX so I watched again as I missed the first part and the wife had not seen it at all. Throughout the movie, many jokes are made of a sexual nature, and the team is depicted in full S&M get up (a joke is even made about submissives). At the end of the film, I am expecting the two girls to kiss - they have shown other kisses already in the film - but they cut that out. They still make a les/bi joke but don't show the actual kiss. So, basically - WTF? That is such a weird thing to censor - especially as there have been plenty of lesbian kisses on screen in prime time on US network. Is it a FOX thing? Or a more general American thing? __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

11-22-2007, 07:32 PM	#3 (permalink)
Mister Coaster Big & Brassy Location: The "Canyon"	The religious right wing politicians, period. They "know what's bad for your soul" and therefore won't expose it to the US public. Everyone knows lesbianism is the path to Satan, come on. But, yeah. There is no rational explanition. __________________ If you have any poo... fling it NOW!

11-22-2007, 07:38 PM	#4 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	Wow. I knew that there was self-censorship occurring but I didn't think something of this nature would constitute something censurable. That said, a lot more would be censored from the film if it were to air here. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

11-22-2007, 08:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	America: Decapitation is cool to show a 14 year old yet boobies are a no-no. Go figure. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

11-22-2007, 09:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Explain American censorship rationally. The American Puritan Restoration is already underway. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

11-22-2007, 07:30 PM	#2 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	Fox has no problem pushing the edge of what's allowable. And same-sex intimacy is absolutely not allowable on the US airwaves. They'd have the standards board all over them in a heartbeat. Explain that rationally? When violence, murder, and dead bodies are perfectly acceptable? I can't--it's not rational.

11-23-2007, 12:32 AM	#7 (permalink)
spectre Junkie	I tend to rant about this topic pretty often, but I'll keep it short. Basically, in the early days of television there wasn't much choice (only a couple channels) so the government put someone in charge of regulating what should be allowed on the air. The man that they chose was very puritanical. To give you some idea of how puritanical, just look at shows like "Mary Kay and Johnny" and "I Love Lucy" which broke barriers which now seem ridiculous and idiotic. One barrier that they broke was having a married couple sharing a bed. Yup, you read that right, up until that point, married couples were shown sleeping in separate beds because if they shared a bed, then that meant that they had sex, and that kind of smut wasn't suitable for television. Another barrier that they broke was having a pregnant Lucy on the show. The executives were extremely uncomfortable having a pregnant woman on the air and finally allowed it after Lucy and Desi consulted priests and rabbis who said they didn't find it morally objectionable. Despite this, they were never allowed to say she was "pregnant," only that she was "expecting." They've slowly lightened up and allowed more realistic content, but despite all of the advances over the years, the rules are still very uptight. __________________ "Fuck these chains No goddamn slave I will be different" ~ Machine Head Last edited by spectre; 11-23-2007 at 12:34 AM..

11-23-2007, 12:42 AM	#8 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I thought Carol and Mike Brady were the first TV couple to appear in the same bed. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

11-23-2007, 03:24 AM	#9 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	But what is so weird to me is there is a ton of sexual innnuendo in the show, and lesbianism/homosexuality is referenced - they just don't want to show a same-sex kiss (although that barrier was broken ages ago both on primetime and daytime television). Anyway, I don't go in for comedies much but I thought Dodgeball was worth a few chuckles. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

11-23-2007, 03:31 AM	#10 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	My first reaction is to say, "No, I wont rationalize it. I don't even agree with it." However the networks have to a) fit the movie into a length suitable for television advertisements and b) make the movie suitable for young children to watch. Suitable is defined in a very puritanical sense. This is because the wrong people are in charge. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

11-23-2007, 09:50 AM	#14 (permalink)
Psycho Dad Mulletproof Location: Some nucking fut house.	I'd rather see two fat men in wife beaters and boxer shorts kissing than the continued stereotype that gay men hang out in bars dressed like Judas Priest fan club rejects. Even television shows that aren't subject to censorship do that. Look what The Sopranos did with Vito. __________________ Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

11-23-2007, 10:03 AM	#15 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	/joke ... I like the laugh track associated with interracial relationships on TV, myself. "But she's just... so... black." ... Well, I'm going to watch Predator on TV... nothing in that movie to censor if you live in America! __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

11-23-2007, 02:51 PM	#17 (permalink)
Telluride Browncoat Location: California	Censorship sometimes makes no sense. I've seen things on TV where words like "bitch" and "ass" were allowed, but "god" in the phrase "god damn it" was bleeped out. __________________ "I am certain that nothing has done so much to destroy the safeguards of individual freedom as the striving after this mirage of social justice." - Friedrich Hayek

11-23-2007, 09:08 PM	#18 (permalink)
Mith Tilted Location: Mesa, AZ	No rational explanation for it. Rich Steves goes through Europe. He visits some incredibly well-known art exhibits. Unfortunately, here in the United States portrayal of the human form in its natural state is "dirty". This is particularly frustrating for the producers and Rick, these are things that everyone should be able to see. Ah well, 'tis the nature of the beast. __________________ Mith

11-23-2007, 09:10 PM	#19 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Didn't Ashcroft demand some statue's bare breast be covered with a sheet during a conference or something? Talk about prude. Lady Justice's teet was too much for him to handle before he went back to his Girls Gone Wild collection. __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

11-25-2007, 02:50 PM	#21 (permalink)
Psycho Dad Mulletproof Location: Some nucking fut house.	Rob Halford is gay? The hell you say! __________________ Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

11-25-2007, 03:39 PM	#22 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	There is no rational reason to believe that it is right for anyone other than a parent raising a child to decide what others should and should not be exposed to.