Plan9Senior

Well Woodhead I am not 14, I am 27.. sorry to dissapoint your adolescent fantasy of who I am. Hormonal rush? Well possibly. I am a personal trainer and my priority in life is taking care of my body, so I guess you can say that my testosterone levels might be a tad higher then yours. You live in Russia where the women put ads on the internet to marry us Americans just to get their visa here. I don't know how things work there, but apparantly you Russian men arent doing the job if all the women are wanting to be here . All insults aside, I think you might be a tad uninformed on how real life works with women, because I will bet my life that I get more tail then you do following my own advice then being a "decent honest bloke". Thanks for your advice though, I can promise you it wont help anybody on this forum get laid though Your vodka is good, but your advice is shit... gg cya bud

woodhead

Plan9, My apologies for being overly emotional in my posting. While beer and vodka leave me in a pleasantly conversational mood, I'm pretty sure that it was the sleeping pill that followed that led me to type faster than I could think. Referring to myself as a 'decent and honest bloke' I think is evidence of this, but on the positive side, at least this comment might have given me a clue as to what my brainstem thinks of me.

As far as me being uninformed about how real life works with women - I think that here you have touched the issue that differentiates our attitudes. Maybe it was even my mistake to post on a thread dedicated to 'getting tail', but I was curious about how other people thought about sex, and when I got the gist of what your polylogue was all about, I felt that I had to respond.

I agree that your psychological tools can be used to manipulate a girl into bed, but I am not so happy that you leave the matter at that and simplify sex as only being a game. To be sure, there are games involved, but this is only one element. Or better - to typify (as it seems to me that you do) all sexual relations as being a kind of game that can only be won or lost, leaves a huge hole in the possibilities of how one might interact with women. I understand this rating of women from 1 to 10, but it makes me feel uncomfortable. Why? Because it promotes a kind of blindness which might stop one from meeting a very ordinary girl who could save your life.

This is a thread about getting laid. I have fucked left right and centre while doing the exact opposite of what is recommended here. And also by doing what is recommended here. The only recipie is to go to bed with girls you like and take it like a man when they aren't interested.

PS As far as Russian women are concerned, I can only say that the available petabytes of the internet would only suffice to trivialise any discussion of them.

Having said that, I must ask - which Russian woman are you talking about? Russia per se includes about 200 ethnic groups and the former Soviet Republics adds a big handful more. The only way I can characterise them as a group is by saying that when God made Russian women, he was on a good run. He perfected spiteful vengeful whores as well as transparent selfless angels but gave them all beautiful faces and bodies (well, most of them). And most generously, He gave them all attention spans - something He omitted in the English speakers.

You noted that lots of Russian women want to go west. It's true. As you implied, Russian men fuck up in a big way with their 19th century attitudes and violence and drunkedness, but probably the strongest factor is sheer poverty. Student grants of US$10 per month, pensions of US$50 per month. The law doesn't work. It is easy to buy a judge who gets US$300 per month. Cost of living not much less than in the West. Of course people want to leave.

Enough of that. To put it simply, women don't advertise to come to the US because you are a big stud, but rather because there is a chance that their children won't starve there.

Please excuse me, I have to go out and meet some friends.

Until later,

W.

Strange Famous

hahaha!

thats comedy!

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

*Nikki*

Plan9 I can honestly say that not one of your "plans" would work on me or my friends.

All of us would prefer a "decent honest bloke" over a scam anyday.

Being close to your age I think I have pretty much figured out mens games at this point and a lot of the things you described seem pretty transparent to me. Any women with some sense in her head would steer clear.

Strange Famous

I agree, but at the same time, a lot of girls do wind up sleeping with people they dont even like I think. Most people can see people games and schemes from the outside, but when you are involved in it its harder, plus - like the song says - "youre tender when youre tired"...

I guess the question for guys is, what do you really want, a few one night stands here and there that the other person winds up regretting, or somehow making a connection.

But I would tell anyone, listen to Plan 9 ahead of me, I havent had a girlfriend in 3 years, so what do I know?

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

*Nikki*

Plan9 is not trying to get a girlfriend though. He is just trying to get a piece of ass.

Strange Famous

Well, exactly, and whether his advice is any good depends on if you want what he wants or what I want.

What he wants, and the way he does it works well enough for him. Maybe I might like it if I did it, but I don't think it really is waht i want. if you ust want to sleep with a good looking girl, then it isnt really a problem is 6 people reject you and the last one sleeps with ou and you dont have to ask what's going on, you just do it to do it.

Im not trying to pass judgement in anyone, a lot of men and women may be looking for just that.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Demonism

while it's true that plan9's lessons are mostly designed just for getting laid, you can change them around a bit to suit your individual needs. if nothing else, it will get your foot in the door with a girl you're interested in. and then you can be yourself. the lessons aren't to be followed exactly, they're just general guidelines on what to do and what not to do. i've asked a few girls that i know fell for this exact shit, and when i told them about some of the lessons, they told me it's bullshit and they'd never fall for it.. but they already have.

personally, i feel more confident just by reading what he wrote. if you have confidence, you dont need to follow these lessons, you're already getting laid because you use them subconciously.

male_salmon

Phew! I just read the entire thread. Took me a few days (broken into chunks, I'm not THAT slow a reader!).

I have to agree pretty much with what Plan9 has said. I don't believe it's so much about getting a piece of ass (although you can use it for that), but it's more about creating an attraction for the woman that she will find irresistable. I subscribe to David DeAngelo's mailing list (it can be found at <a href="http://www.doubleyourdating.com/">http://www.doubleyourdating.com/</a>) which contains tons of success stories of people employing the same techniques that Plan9 espouses. If you have the chance, read DeAngelo's eBook as well, it pretty much agrees with what Plan9 says.

Dixie_Wrekked

you sir, have more patience than I do, I usually dont go through a thread that is more than 100 posts long

tomdom

hot dog. i just finished this mountain... its been a great read thanks plan9, i truely think this would make an awesome book.
i think people are getting on the wrong track with what ur trying to say and talking about being yourself and finding your true love, the one that wont fall for these tricks and instead see the real person, maybe its just the angle im looking at this thread from but i dont think thats the goal in which was set. This thread has opened the door for me

once again thank plan9 for sharing this

KungFuGuy

what's an AFC?
also, how does the dialing 67 work?

i've read *most* of this thread but i'm sure i missed some stuff somewhere....

also, i think its good advice, although i've seen much of it in other places. Its like turning it into a game thats actualy fun to play where you dont go home feeling dejected at night cuz your afraid of talking to the HB's. (been there done that)

majik_6

AFC=Average Frustrated Chump

*67=Blocks caller ID so that you essentially have a "Free" call, aka, she doesn't know it was you, so it doesn't count against the "appropriate" number of calls

As for the debate of true love and the like: this thread definitely wasn't designed for "true love".

I've been in long term relationships for years with women I cared deeply about, and never used these techniques. My "shining personality" has "won them over". However, I've never been on a date with someone that I wasn't going "steady" with, and I haven't dated a new girl since my sophomore or junior year of high school. With my "techniques" (or better put, lack there of), I would have probably spent the last 4 years single, had I not been with my one-time best friend (who I had planned to marry this fall).

My best friend naturally embodies these principles and he gets casual sex often. He's had some relationship troubles because of these attitudes, but had a 3 year relationship that worked very well, and is currently engaged to a wonderful girl that shares most of his feelings on sex and "game".

Just goes to show, you don't need these lessons to get a g/f, but they'll sure help you get a nameless piece of ass. (and for the record, I'm in no way judging...hell, it's been a while, I'm not sure I'd pass up on mindless random sex right now!)

I said it before, and it I believe it bears repeating: "It's not about changing what you're offering, it's about changing how you offer it."

__________________
it's all about self-indulgence

wraith41

Ok I have been a long time lurker on the boards here, but this thread finally got me to break out of my shell.

Firstly, I totally agree with Plan on everything he says, I do my best to live this stuff everyday. Some of you might describe it as "game playing" but, as pointed out before, dating is all a game of social thrusts and parries. To the girls who say guys play games, yea, well so do women. Guys are tested, whether they realize or not, by women all the time. How far they're willing to let them push their buttons, whether they know when to put their foot down, etc. To be fair, I don't think girls consciously do this sort of thing, like "Hmm, I think I'll see if he puts up with a weird spaz out tonight at dinner."
On the flip side, women can giggle and toss their way out of a problem, flirting is something most have mastered into an art form that they sometimes they use as a means to end. Is this not also game playing?
I believe this advice is about a guy having a gameplan (no pun intended) for himself. Something to show himself that he does actually have a backbone, he can actually have his own opinion, he does not have to follow status quo, and be a man.
Also, why does everyone think this advice is only about one night stands? Plan has repeated himself on the fact that you <i>can</i> pursue something meaningful if you so chose. Its simple, to borrow from his above story for a minute, don't kiss other girls if you want one.

Girls, if you don't like a confident guy who breaks out of the box instead of being the typical mold, fine. We'll move along to the next table. Guys, if you want to hope the sappy love story thing works, well, keep enough money in your wallet for dinner

Plan9Senior

First off, there is no scam here. Secondly, your post almost seems like an empty threat more then truth. I wish to God I lived near you because I would bet my left testicle that even after everything you know about me on this thread I can guarantee that if I hung out with you and your friends, at least one of you would be interested in me by the end of the evening. Isn't that as fair as you assuming the latter?

Well, that is a bit presumptuous of you to assume. This thread, unbeknownst to you, can help us guys get girlfriends even though you find it hard to believe.

Thanks for your posts anyhow *Nikki*, I honestly hope you are in the Orange County area some day so I can prove them wrong .

Plan9Senior

Woodhead I see you took the time to post a long reply but I don't have the patience to read it because I don't have time for guys with the mentality that you have. I am here to tell you what works, not to convince you chick-flick watching pansies out there to change your ways. Good luck to you though in Russia kiddo

skier

It's one thing to read a technique and think to yourself "how simple this looks" and another altogether to be at a bar and meet a guy that is friendly, funny, and you feel like you are connecting with him on a deeper level. Eventually when you end up having a good time with him, winding up very physical at the end of the night, who just got the girl, and who is that boring honest decent guy in the corner hugging his beer? Any guy that you can see through as "scamming you" or trying to pick you up is just an AFC or a little slow in the head.

__________________
"Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim

passthru

If a girl feels comfortable with me, chances are much much lower that she will realize the ways in which she's being "scammed". Making a girl comfortable is easy, especially if you were once a NiceGuy or AFC. Keep in mind that these are only general guidelines and some guys can use all kinds or behaviour directly to their advantage.

Andy

Hi, here's my story. All of it predates my reading of plan9's thread, but I think it will support his points.

For almost all of my life, I have been AFC suffering from one-itis every time I happen upon the opportunity. Anyway, when I was visiting grad school, a girl (wow!) walked into the room who was hot, for an engineer. I'd give her a 6.5 on plan9's scale in comparison to normal girls though. I think there were about 4 girls and 25 guys in the room.

Anyway, I made eye contact and smiled, so she sat down next to me. Still being AFC, I said nothing to her. A professor introduced us so we chatted awhile.. I was planning to get her contact info by the end of the day, but she had to catch a bus unexpectedly.

Since I remembered her name, I did look up her webpage online which had her phone, IM, etc., but I decided to forget it and not look creepy. A few months later she dropped me an email: She had looked ME up. We talked online a bit (just small talk and grad school BS), and we ended up deciding to get an apartment together. Note: I thought I was workin' it at this point, but few months later when she liked me more she told me she thought I was a dork when we met, so maybe not.

I'll try to cut this short. As we were living together, she would occasionally ask me favors, and I would say no if it were inconvenient, i.e. getting her a drink of water when we were both sitting down. This was the first time ever that I didn't supplicate for a girl. I also never complimented her looks (It would have been out of context, anyway). I never ever bought her anything, or took her anywhere, also a first for me. And we started hooking up in mid-November.

But then an old problem surfaced. First of all, she was starting to develop feelings for me, I think, and I was beginning to suffer from one-itis. I started doing more favors for her; I started to compliment her; I started to agree with everything she said. She left for winter break in December and when she got back things were different. We've hooked up since, but less often, and I can tell she doesn't like me nearly at the level she did before. All because I started being "thoughtful." Lesson learned.

And with that, any advice? She left for home for a week again, so I think if there is a time for me to change my personality back, now would be it. What is a good way to stop doing favors? The transition from "mean" to "nice" is easy to accept, but the other way around might not be so good.

I've also thought about stopping everything period because she IS my suitemate and we are still friends at some level, but it's tough cuz sex is fun.

P.S. All the time I've lived with her guys have sent her fruit baskets, clothes, other random gifts, a round-trip ticket to Florida, etc. The guy who bought her the trip has never gotten any from her. He initiates conversation (mostly online) all the time and tries to set up times to "hang out." I know for a fact she is not interested in him, and I'm sure it's because he is precisely what plan9 tells us not to be. Oh, also, when she was considering the trip to FL, I convinced her to go visit and to take the free ticket. I think that was a good move and gave me a few points, instead of acting all "stay here with me" even though that's what I actually wanted.

woodhead

Plan9, I'm sorry that you say that you didn't have the patience to read my post, and even sorrier that you did so on the basis of my 'mentality' and seemingly because I am a 'chick-flick watching pansy'.

Nonetheless, thanks for wishing me luck in Russia. It seems to me, through your intolerance of dissent and alternative points of view, that you have a pretty good idea of how things work here.

Myself, I am enjoying the exchange of views, but just in case, I have packed a small suitcase (standing by the front door) should you wish to send me to Lubyanka for 'questioning', or to Siberia to 'change my ways'.

Yours,

W.

*Nikki*

I wouldn't say that my post was any kind of threat. It is mearly an observation made by me, as I have heard every line in the book. I have dealt with men many times like yourself. You are not an original as much as you would like to make it seem so. I am not making assumptions as to your intentions with women, those have been clearly stated by you and that is what I based my comments on.
As far as being in Orange County, I don't think that will ever happen. There are already enough men here trying your tactics so I don't think I will have to travel across the country for more of the same.

Sleepyjack

I guess it's a semantics thing, but i think it's more of a passive vs aggressive/assertive thing, rather than being mean or rude vs nice.

Thesaurus entry for thoughtful:
absorbed, analytical, attentive, brainy, calculating, cerebral, cogitative, deep, deliberative, discerning, earnest, engrossed, far-sighted, grave, intellectual, intent, introspective, keen, level-headed, logical, meditative, melancholy, museful, musing, pensive, philosophic, pondering, preoccupied, rapt, rational, reasonable, reasoning, reflecting, reflective, retrospective, ruminative, serious, sober, studious, subjective, thinking, wise, wistful.

Thoughtfulness is good!

Good quote btw are you in marketing/advertising?

heh, i would also like to meet the mythical being that is Plan9. I daresay that there is quite a bit of hype to live up too
Fortunatley, with shows like this one, i can already experience the majestic beauty of OC
Although it'd be good if you could drop into Perth sometime, to taste the women

...
I think woodhead makes some valid points as well (along with having impeccable English skillz ), even though they may contradict some of Plan9's points, there's a duality for them. For an analogy, to basketball , there's surely many ways of playing the game, not just one.

For instance, logically, people may think you should try to get close to the basket (as a strategy) cause it's easy to score there. However people are also good at shooting from the outside, and can score from there as well Some people chose one over the other or even combine both.

However, there's always the underlying need of playing hard] which is required in order to succeed and is immaterial of which ever strategy you want to use. Although this playing hard, in the real world, pretty much equates to a confidence thing, variety and change up. heh, hope there wasn't too many holes in that one i think i just wanted to create another pointless analogy on the fly

cait987

Very nice post and summarizes all the info needed just gotta follow through and dont act like a idiot/get nervous. Gotta be calm but know what your doing .. and hold the door for the lady on the way out ^^

CinnamonGirl

Definitely. I always thought that was a lame gesture ("um..I can open a door myself, y'know"), until I dated a guy that didn't do it. A small thing, but a big impact.

As for the rest of the thread...well...some of it's good, some just...isn't. Sadly, a lot of it works, with some women. A friend of mine basically lets herself be a doormat.

__________________
"...for though she was ordinary, she possessed health, wit, courage, charm, and cheerfulness. But because she was not beautiful, no one ever seemed to notice these other qualities, which is so often the way of the world."


"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?"

Andy

You are absolutely right: My wording is bad. It was a cop out to act as if nothing is my fault. Akin to the "Woe is me, I am a sincere, kind-hearted person and girls refuse to like me" statements we saw earlier in the thread. I'm embarassed that I said that, but thanks for pointing it out. I leave it unedited in the original post cuz, hey, that's what I said.

There's one other thing to consider, though: In the beginning when I wasn't going out of my way to do any favors, I wasn't quite being passive. I was assertively saying, "No." I certainly thought to compliment her all the time originally, but repressed it. I was being... self-serving, perhaps? Maybe you can find yet a better word. Anyway, seems that approach was more effective.

majik_6

Nope, just a college student that has way to much time to come up with clever quotes!

Or maybe I just have a knack for reducing twenty years spent observing the world around me into catchy phrases....either way, it's kind of my trademark with those who know me, and it always makes me feel good when one of my friends quotes something I said to them to illustrate a point.

As for your thoughts about "game" being like basketball, I think you're on to something. I however know nothing about basketball, so I'm going to put it into a sport I used to play: a QB sneak and a Hail Mary are different plays, but they're both headed towards the same endzone.

Or, to put it into more logical terms:

I guess not every guy that "plays the game" should be labled a player, but on the same token, just because a guy doesn't "buy into this stuff" doesn't make him a great catch. My best friend might as well have written the rule book, but he's very good to his women, especially his fiancee. I have other friends with NOOOO game that treat their women like an cheap flank steak.

__________________
it's all about self-indulgence

neoinoakleys

Hey Plan9...

I have a suggestion, and perhaps you could explain this better than I, but for your next lesson, I think the boys would really benefit from some tactics to use to move the girl from phone conversations and brief meetings to the bedroom.

I noticed that you mention alot about how to keep things short on the phone, by only calling once or twice a week and keeping the conversation to a minimum and making plans to meet instead. Also, how to leave a conversation just when it gets good.

Also, you talk about how to be when you finally meet the girl and to keep that short as well.

Now, the biggest question is how do you explain how to move the girl away from just conversation and these short meetings where you are almost dining and dashing within an hour, to getting her into an intimate mood and progressing them to your bed room.

Do you have any theories on this?? When is the right time to dismiss the "one hour" meeting rule, and start getting down to what you really want?

Like I said in an earlier post, I think your ideas are right on and you seem to be able to put inot words what I can't....The boys (I am sure) would surely benefit from a few words on this topic.

__________________
It's My Duty to Please That Booty!!

herostar

Well, folks, here it is. Somewhat proof of Plan9's lessons in action. I myself dont' have a particularly hard time getting girls at all... but I decided I'd give some of the things talked about on here a shot. I met this girl Sondra. She's probably a 7.5-8.0 on the "scale." A very cool and attractive lady. I used techniques described here, and nothing else... low and behold I got laid. We have been together now for 3 weeks. About all of the things discussed on here (at least in the first 4-5 pages) are similar to how I approach women. If I do say so, it works quite well. Anyways, good luck to everyone and their female friends.

__________________
Got time to chill?

KungFuGuy

i just started goin to a new college, and i'm so much better at talking to people. (in part due to stupid guides like this and in part jsut cause i finally got more mature)

but now i'm totally at a loss when some girl walks up and says "H"i to me, and i'm sure i talked to her before, and i cant remember her name at all. so yea i just play along at that point.

skier

Yo Plan9 congrats on getting 10 000+ views on this thread

__________________
"Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim

Plan9Senior

Ummkay Whatever young lady

Averett

Hey now, be nice

__________________
Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

blizzak

alright bumping this thread back to the front
plan9, how do you impress a girl that seems to be very shy/not experienced with relationships?
I don't wanna come on too strong and all, but in the context of "the guide", I could see some of the techniques backfiring on me
ever had a situation like this?

__________________
Fueled by oxytocin!

thed00t

I've been casually reading this thread for a while. Let me first off say that I hate mind games and think they are a waste of time.

Suffice to say, I have looked high and low for women that claim what you just said. No matter how many times they claim exactly what you just claimed, they never ever ever ever^100 mean it.

A girl will sit there with a straight face and tell you that, but in the end, it's this kind of stuff that works anyway. The sad part is, it's probably true that you'd rather go with the average guy or whatever, but you don't. You just think you did. Or you just tell yourself that so you sleep better at night. But odds are, you never even know that you ended up with a guy like that.

I don't pull these kind of games because I hate to wear a bullshit facade, I just be myself. But when I'm not interested in a girl, and these things come out unintentionally, they still fucking work. This is how guys came up with these plans. They tried to be an average chump too many times and it failed. Then when they weren't interested in a girl, and did everything different, all the sudden she's all over him. Bingo, the light goes off.

Despite what you think, guys LIKE to "woo" girls and I think most men would rather try the approach that women CLAIM to like. Men wouldn't be doing these things unless females responded to it better. Rest assured that men do the things THAT WORK BEST to get women. If it didn't work on girls who think they could see through it, then men wouldn't waste thier time on it.

These things get females attention. They've got yours because you're posting in this thread.

*Nikki*

Well I guess then the dOOt that you will have to consider me as an exception to what you said in your post. I guess I am an exception to a lot of the typical females in that I thrive in an mostly all male enviroment ( like here) and I freely participate in any discussion not because I am a women, but because I have as much right as anyone else.

If this is what works best on getting females.....well so be it. However the type of females that would fall for games and manipulation are not worth obtaining in the first place.

With that said....good luck guys.

thed00t

My intention wasn't to offend you, if I did. If you're an exception, you're exception. The "yous" contained in my post should have been "you alls" in reference to women who think like that. You'll have to forgive me for being skeptical, since I've met tons of women who say the same things, act the same way, and then turn out the same.

Yes of course you have a right to post here, that's what makes the discussion worth a shit in the first place. No one said otherwise.


If this is what works best on getting females.....well so be it. However the type of females that would fall for games and manipulation are not worth obtaining in the first place.

I aagree, and that's pretty much why I'm single. If I go after girls and if I realize that I have to use game to persue a relationship (phsyical or not) with them, then I pretty much lose interest. I might keep it going out of boredom or hope that she's not a drama queen game playing bitch like everyone else, but she always turns out to be.

I'd like to point out it's not the man's fault this is what works on women. As I mentioned before, men are going to do whatever works best with the least amount of effort to get women. If THESE actions are what it takes, and they obviously are because they obviously work; then why are men to blame for doing it. If women weren't so god damn superficial deep down, and didn't play mind games; men wouldn't have to either.

Bottom line is men wouldn't do it if women didn't like it. If men are _insert derogatory remark here_ for "manipulation and games" then what are women for letting it work?

And yes, that was a candid question I'm actually asking.

I'm really not bitter I just accept how this works. If I feel like getting laid just to get laid, then I use these methods. I refuse to apologize for being an animal with a breeding instinct. Women as a gender, reallllly need to get over that fact. Men want to get laid. Men like beutiful women. Men can not help this. A lion does not apologize for slaying a gazelle for food. Nor will men. Women either need to accept this, or shut the fuck up about it.

If I want a relationship, then I don't use these methods because of precisely what we mentioned earlier. I'd rather meet a girl that didn't let those games work on them. I'm still looking, because either they don't exist, or I haven't found her yet.

*Nikki*

Whoa!!

I think that you cannot apply being superficial to just ONE sex!! That is definately a personal thing, not a gender thing!

I don't think that women need to accept anything.

Men need to realize that there are many women who just want a good fuck also.

There is no need for me to accept that a man just wants to fuck me when my intention might also be that I just want to fuck him!

Strange Famous

I guess my problem, not with these rule especially, but with the whole concept - is I really dont want to view dating as a game, or a contest; and I don't want to make someone like me through elaborate mind games we play against other. I don't want to go round around grading every girls breasts and legs and compunding a score out of 10 before I decide whether I should approach her or not.

I find the whole concept, where men chase, and women make them chase, to somehow reclaim the power which is lost in a patriarchal society - to me is a little uncomfortable.

I mean, these rules or tactics might well work, and I certainly am not going to come in here and try and tell anyone I know better, because I've been single a while now, so obviously whatever I am doing isnt working...

I just wish it didnt have to be this way, and I have to say I hope and believe it doesnt.

And whether it makes me less manly, I dont know, but to what thedoot said - I don't really want to get laid in the sense of it being my priority, I mean, I wouldnt mind - but it isnt what I really want. I want companionship, and understanding, and partnership and just having someone I can chill with, and feel like Im allright with. Sex is good too, but it isnt everything, or even the most important thing.

If all these rules offer is casual sex with girls who are prettier than you... I guess to be truthful maybe I would like it, but then I would probably feel dissapointed after. If people, male and female people, played less games with each other, I think it would be better.

And likening casual sex to a lion hunting its prey, is to me personally, possibly indicative of an attitude to matters of the heart that I would feel is rather strange. I mean, if all I wanted was to fuck someone, I could go get a hooker, a nice one, and for £60/$100 I'd get all of THAT, without any of the heart ache and fear of rejection...

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

thed00t

I'm not. Men are of course more superficial. But men at least admit it. Women hide it.

There is no need for me to accept that a man just wants to fuck me when my intention might also be that I just want to fuck him!

Yea problem is, the women usually has to have these methods used on them before they want to. You might be different....

But when was the last time you saw a hot guy that was your type, and the hot guy saw you, and you both walked up to eachother and said "lets have sex". Probably never. Women who want to have sex just to have sex still have to woo'ed.

If a women starts hanging out with a guy and it was too easy, the guy is doing all the work, calling her, being a one-itis guy; then she's going to think: "That was too easy, if I can get THIS guy this easy, imagine who I can get if I work at it". So basically you just make the women think she's working at it, and that you're a hard catch because all the other guys she dated were too easy.

thed00t

I agree with you man.

I'd personally rather have a meaningful relationship than just go out and have sport fucks. Doesn't mean I haven't used these methods to get laid because well, I'm a 22 year old male. I also once thought that using these types of methods to start with could lead to something more. But the times I did that, I became disinterested with the girl after a while because I had done that.

I now no longer pull this kind of shit because it isn't worth it to me. I don't want to have to wear a mask and act fake just to get some action. I don't want to have to put up with someone elses baggage just because I wanted to get laid. I don't want to put myself in a position to get some chick pregnant because I had an urge. And we won't even go into STDs....

All in all, it's a been there done that kind of thing and now I'm actually looking for a girl I can respect.

And likening a lion killing prey to casual sex I mean as an allegory, not a metaphor, so don't take it literaly. I'm just saying a lion has an urge to kill to get it's food. That's called instinct and it's stronger than anything. I could have said the lion also has an instinct to find a mate and fight off everything it can to sucessfully breed with it. Well, same with human males. So don't read into it to much