Plan9Senior

Everybody has their droughts, but on the bright side you are ready for when it starts to pour

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Eldaire

This post has been most enlightening.

Averett

I remember my own threads

And how is that proof on how guys get girls? How did he get me?

Oh.. I get it.. He didn't want me, he was just blowing me off!

Gee, thanks for showing me the light!


Yes, some of your tips annoy me. I have every right to convey that. And I'm sure you think that I'm just a troll who is incapable of getting any man. And you're entitled to that opinion. So lets just agree to disagree, okay?

I have no doubt that everything you've posted works. It just honestly makes me a bit sad that we're all reduced to these games.

__________________
Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

nightshade000

I think there's a few things people need to keep in mind in this thread. With a topic like "Getting girls 101", I think it's very clear that this is not a tutorial on how to have a successfull long term relationship. Anyone interested in "Getting girls 101" in any way short of wondering what is said in a thread such as this, is probably not looking for a long term relationship at this point in their life.

The other thing is that the women on TFP tend to be above average in education, openess and creativity. In other words, I think they are the exception, not the rule (this is in no way a bad thing). What this means is that these 'games' most surely won't work on women from this board, and probably actualy seem absurd. HOWEVER. They most definately do work on your average club going girl.

Plan9, I totaly support the idea's you've stated in this thread

Plan9Senior

Lesson: The Art of Approaching Women PART 1: (prepare for a long lesson)

Approaching women in itself is easy, it’s getting the courage to do it that seems to hold people back. A guy sees a girl he wants to approach, makes eye contact, and then, instead of approaching, does one of two things:

1. Thinks it over
They sit there and analyze all the possible outcomes. What if she doesn’t fall madly in love with them? What if she is having a bad day? What if she’s a lesbian? The girl notices the guy, but he is sitting there thinking it over (wasting time). If he eventually does approach, the girl thinks of him as a wuss because he took to long. This guy obviously has 0 confidence.

2. Sits there trying to come up with a witty line
I’ve been there. My entire life I’ve seen girls I would have loved to get them, looked at them, THOUGHT about approaching, but instead, sat there trying to come up with a witty line. This causes a few problems. A) You’re wasting time. If you ever do approach, you look like a guy with no confidence and B). You won’t think of a witty line. And if you somehow do, you have too many odds against you because if the girl isn’t gone, then she realizes you have to little confidence to see something you want and go get it.

To those of you who are afraid of rejection, here are some comforting points

1. Every PUA has been rejected. It happens. It’s like wanting to learn the guitar, but then holding back because you might play the wrong chord on accident or you might drop your pick.
2. Rejection is a learning experience. It helps fine-tune your game so your chances of getting rejected drop as you go on
3. Girls aren’t rejecting you because of your looks (unless you’re just hideous), you just did something wrong or were a little nervous and they picked up on it. That’s why the more you approach; the less you’ll actually get rejected. You’ll improve on these things.
4. Girls are usually pretty nice when you approach, as long as you avoid saying something vulgar or just walking up and saying, “I want to fuck you.” The worst rejection you may ever get is, “I have a boyfriend” or, “Why don’t you give me your number.” What is so scary about that? (there are good responses to both by the way)

Now, here is the big rumor that people seem to believe when they either consider approaching girls or when they start doing it. They think that they need some kind of pick-up line or impressive opener to be successful. That’s just not true. In all honesty, it doesn’t matter what you say to a girl when you approach; you just have to say something…ANYTHING. You can pick-up girls no problem by just walking up and saying, “Hi” with a smile. The problem now is following this up with conversation (which I’ll get into later).

Now, imagine being at the mall and there are all sorts of HB’s there. If you’ve ever really paid attention, how many guys have you actually seen approaching a girl? I don’t think I’ve ever actually witnessed it. If you’re scared of people noticing you trying to do a pickup, I don’t think you should have a problem. Nobody would even pick-up on it. But, not only that, most guys DON’T approach girls. They go to the mall with a group of friends and just walk around trying to look cool. They look at girls, they whisper to their friends, then, they go home thinking about how hot that girl was.

Another interesting point: YOU reject girls ALL THE TIME, you just don’t know it. How many girls have you ever seen look at you and smile and you just kept walking? That’s a rejection bro. If you don’t approach a girl who is begging you to, you’re rejecting her. You probably never even picked up on the signals (I know I used to never even notice them, and now they’re so easy to spot), but you reject them. And think of how bad girls have it that they have to go home wondering if they’re ugly because they didn’t get approached. Lets say you’re walking around the mall and you notice this ugly girl is looking at you. You make eye contact (accidentally) then quickly look away. Why…because you’re not interested. Now if this were a HB, you would’ve kept eye contact and most likely smiled. Smiling is a clear “come talk to me” indicator for cold approaches. All us guys go initially for looks on a girl; lucky for any of you who aren’t so good-looking that girls go for personality


PART 2:

Ok, now that you have some confidence and see that this is really easy, lets get into some different ways of approaching.

Approaching can be broken into the following steps:

1. Spotting out the target. You have 3 seconds to approach, so make sure you notice all the details in those 3 seconds. Maybe something interesting she’s wearing if you want to do one of those approaches.
2. Approaching the target and getting her attention. This is called an opener. Avoid canned pick-up lines.
3. You got some kind of response from the target. You scan for body language, facial expressions, eye contact, and anything else to get an overall sense of interest level (depending on your approach there may not be any interest level yet. Don’t give up)
4. Your response to her response.
5. Small talk
6. Close

Hopefully that seems logical to you. Now, how do you actually approach a girl? Get her attention, then once you do, talk about ANYTHING that’s not boring. Good topics would be something going on at that moment around you, something you noticed about her (NOT LOOKS), or anything any regular guy wouldn’t talk about.

motdakasha

I like the way you describe women and men.

What bermuDa said.

Personally, I'd like to think I'm the initiate and that I'm relatively game-free. If I'm looking to get laid, I don't wait for the guy to play the game, I just go knock on a friend's door. To the point and drama free. If I want a guy who's trying to play games with me, I tell him in one way or another to cut the crap, or I just cut him out of my life because games are petty shit.
Who knows, the process of how I choose which friend might be influenced by "the game," or whatever, but I tend to avoid people who play games. My one and only experience with a game-player is the worst experience of my entire dating/relationship career, so I have a natural tendency to avoid it now.

__________________
=^-^= motdakasha =^-^=
Just Google It.
BA Psychology & Photography
(I'm not going psychoanalyze you nor will I let you cry on my shoulder. Have a nice day.)

blizzak

wow, I just read through this entire thread, and Plan9, i'm pretty excited about these techniques. I'll definitely report back to you with whatever responses I get, and it seemed so simple but I never realized it...."practice makes perfect"

peace

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Fueled by oxytocin!

shileno

im a total wuzz...
i will try to change things..
thanks plan9

taliendo

Don't play games. Girls are people too, you can meet them just as easily as you would a new friend. Have true self confidence (not something that you get out of a bottle for $26 at Wal*Mart) and be yourself. If things work out great, if not -- move on to the next girl you're attracted to. . .the last time I checked there were nearly 7 billion people on the planet.

and this coming from a guy. . .

__________________
-LIFE IS ABSURD-

Mettler

Heh, mind sharing your success rate with this technique ? So far, every girl I've treated like a human being, with respect & honesty etc, has turned around and screwed me around.

There's a bit of cross logic as far as all this is concerned.

Oopsfix

Excelent guide, I copy pasted it and will follow it asmuch as I can. Thanks!

UTRA

kamikazee method above sounded very interesting, haven't heard of it put like that before

Plan9Senior

I have been neglecting this thread for a while, but I have not forgotten about it . You would be proud of your professor tonight... just landed one of the best looking girls I have seen tonight and to top it off I did it WHILE she was out on a date with some sappy chump who was kissing her ass. Needless to say, I am going to hang out with her next weekend while he sits home wondering why she isnt returning his calls.

That being said, it is time for a new lesson

Lesson #11-The Power of Teasing

In the past I use to hate when I was alone with a girl and she totally knew I wanted her. Why? Because then she had all the power and dictated if we kissed, when we kissed, how long we kissed etc. However after a lot of experience, I've learned a lot about how to take control of the physical part of girls.

Ok let me paint an image in your head. Your hanging out with a HB that you want to fuk real bad. You've kept her interest level high the whole night by being C/F and not giving her straight answers. You two finally get to be alone and you want to kiss her really bad, but you don't want to get rejected. Here's where the "Kiss Test." comes in, let me explain it.


Like I said earlier your alone with a girl and want to make the move. Well here's the ground work you must do before you go in for the kiss.

-Initiate kino (touch her thigh, and rub it, or stroke her hair, touch her waist etc) The key is to touch her in a sensual way.

Let's say your stroking her hair, after a few moments, stop. Then make perfect EC and stare at her lips, then back at her eyes. After this lean in like your going to kiss her but pretend that there's some lint in her hair that your grabbing out. Now when you lean in, if she stays put, then your golden she's dying for you to kiss her. However, if she moves away abruptly as you pull in then she just isn't comfortable enough with you yet. If that does happen to you, don't take it as a sign that she doesn't want you. Just take it as a clue that you need to lay down more ground work and create more rapport before she's read to be kissed.

Ok so say your past the initial kiss and you guys are making out. You want to take it to 3rd base and possibly hit a HR. How can you do that? Pretty easy actually. While your making out with her, she'll most likely have her eyes closed. So in the middle of it, just stop, flat out STOP!! Pull back and wait until she opens her eyes. She'll look at you and you look right back. Then lean in as if your going to kiss her again, but instead brush your cheek against her's at the last second. This will drive her absolutely nutz. Why? Because you've already got her pretty hot if you know how to kiss and she wasn't ready to stop. Then pull in again but just give her a soft slow kiss. Then build it up to a little bit more, until you guys are making out again. Make sure your making use of your hands, but caressing her body during the kissing. Then after another few minutes, just stop again and tell her your ready to leave. If she doesn't try to entice you to stay by taking your physical activity a little bit further that night, then TRUST ME, then next time you see her she'll want to do something special for you.

Getting good at being physical with a girl is much like your transition from an AFC to a PUA. A PUA dictates the conversation, is strong and assertive. He says when shit is going to happen and when shit is going to stop. Don't change this formula when your hooking up. If you do this correctly, you'll have A LOT of fun.

Keep pimpin
-p9

ronan

fucking oath... i am sooo putting this shit into practice... *kisses your arse* thanks..

__________________
i am enlightened

motdakasha

It can, with the right people.

__________________
=^-^= motdakasha =^-^=
Just Google It.
BA Psychology & Photography
(I'm not going psychoanalyze you nor will I let you cry on my shoulder. Have a nice day.)

Woody182

I think the only thing you need is confidence...with confidence comes the rest....

__________________
If I fall in love, will you forgive me?
If I lose my way, will you choose me?
If I change my mind, will you change me?
-Smashing Pumpkins

MSD

After reading this thread, I'd just like to thank the guys out there who are trying this for eliminating so much of my competition. Unless you're trying to pick up women who enjoy going home, fucking, then being kicked out without a guy ever asking her name, most of what has been said just won't work.

sprocket

There are actually tons of girls out there like that (just as horny as us guys out there) without a steady supply of hot beef. What plan9 is saying in these posts isnt about lying or putting forth a false image of yourself really, its about making yourself realize your worthy enough to get a hot girl to pay some attention to you.

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Remember, wherever you go... there you are.

Averett

Yup, there are a ton of girls out there who are just looking for some casual sex. Nothing wrong with that at all. But these things are about lying and they are about putting forth a false image of yourself. Most men deep down are not like this. But most realize that to a certain extent you have to tweek yourself in order to get the girl. I think this is all about building confidence. If youre a confident man you can be yourself and be able to talk to any girl you want. Now, can you get any girl you want? Thats another story.

I can't speak for Plan9. We've butted heads on this issue, we both have different thoughts on it. But I think these tricks are all about gaining confidence. If you get used to talking to random girls, and asking for numbers then you'll become more confident with your pimpin ways. I just see things from the woman's point of view. I don't want to be one of the girls who is just the stepping stone to some man gaining confidence. But it's up to me to weed out the guys who are real, and the guys who hope to some day be real.

Got a little long winded there, sorry....

This past Saturday I had a brief encounter with a guy who really needed to work on his game. He came up, introduced himself and we talked for a few minutes. Then mid sentance he turned around and started to talk to another girl. I was a little puzzled but I could care less. I went back to where my friends were standing. About 10 minutes later the guy came over to us, and pulled me over to the bar. Introduces me to his friends and offeres to buy me a drink. Which he never did actually... Then he asked what I was doing later that night (it was 4am) and I said going home. He then asked for my number, said we could hang out sometime. I gave it to him, then he said we should go back to his place and hang out there. I again told him that I was going home,that I had to drive friends home. Next he says "We should go to my place and have sex. Don't worry, it'll be the best of your life. Oh,and I've got condoms." I said thanks, but no thanks. He said "You'll regret it. It's really too bad that I just lost your number." Then turned his back to me. I just laughed and went back to my friends. It was the most bizarre conversation ever.

No, am I wrong in assuming that he had no skills? Or maybe they just didn't work on me...

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Absence is to love what wind is to fire. It extinguishes the small, it enkindles the great.

Prince

An interesting thread.

I've to say, Averett, that sounded like the poorest pickup attempt ever...

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Who is John Galt?

Sho Nuff

There are a lot of jewels in this thread. The one thing i want to add though is the difference between being a real pymp and a sheep in wolfs clothing. If you go out and follow all of the tips plan9 listed you will have success with women, but more than likely if you havent had success with women before you'll get to the physical part and freeze up. Even if you can get past the foreplay and get down to the draws, you'll freeze up then because you'll start to doubt yourself at the last minute. If you really want to have success with women and even life there a few key tips from plan9 and others that you need to focus on.

1. Confidence - Confidence is what makes everything fall into place. When you are confident it changes the way you move, talk, etc and women and everyone else picks up on that. Eye contact tells a lot about a person. If you can make it and hold it strongly it shows the strength of your soul. If you lack confidence youll shuffle or stumble when you walk, your posture will be bad, your voice will crack etc. If you only act confident you will falter eventually.

2. Grooming - Keeping a neat appearance and maintaining good physical conditioning really aid your confidence. Get acquainted with a mirror. People who lack self confidence often only glance at a mirror and make minimal effort to appear clean. Become familiar with your face and body. Study it. Notice every hair that is out of place and craft your appearance.

3. Gift of Gab - Like was said before, pympin is a game of numbers and skill building. A hidden jewel of getting your rap together is older women. There are a lot of hot women in their 30s you can practice on. Having a young guy come and spit game to them will make them feel young again and attractive. They are easy targets and may even humor you even if you are not interested. This can be a useful confidence builder. And if you are lacking confidence in your sexual abilities, there is no greater teacher than an older women. Theyve done it all and seen it all and can teach it to you and show it to you.

4. CONFIDENCE - im repeating this because it is the most important. Putting on the clothes of confidence may get you a little ass, but living a new lifestyle of confidence will change your entire life. Get in the gym to have a healthy body and appearance. Learn self defense. Nothing makes you more confident than knowing that whatever happens you could kick some ass. Women pick up on that too.

It goes beyond the visual. The part of the brain that governs sexual attraction is the most primitive section. Deep down women are still looking for a cave man to protect them and provide for them. You can get far by giving off that impression. You will get farther by actually being that person. Furthermore, the strength of character and confidence you possess can be detected in pheromones. All of that info is processed by women and everyone else whether they know it consciously or not.


I want you to know that im not making this stuff up. In jr high and the first part of high school of a was skinny guy, picked on with no rap and bad acne. My sophomore year in high school a couple guys took me under their wing and taught me the same things Plan 9 and a few others are putting on this board. Aside from that they kept me in the gym, taught to me fight, and generally helped me to realize that my confidence was low. My junior year they left but by that time I was in shape, my confidence was higher and by the end of that year I had had more women that year then in my entire life. My senior year was even better. This is about more than pussy. This is about taking charge of your life.

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I know Nietzsche doesnt rhyme with peachy, but you sound like a pretentious prick when you correct me.

Mettler

Yo Plan9, that last post is quite possibly the most useful one yet.
I'm not all that great at picking up on when a chick's ready to mess about and stuff, so that's some good stuff <:

Kush

Great advice Plan9. I'm gonna put some of this into practice with a girl i'm chasing. I'll be sure to report back =)

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I like this forum. A lot.

Taliesin

Haha - you should have pointed him to this thread.

Zipperhead

Yeah, or Alcoholics Anonymous.

phatfilbert

one other thing to keep in mind is to always keep the place where you bring a gorl to cash in on clean. if it is your bedroom, make sure it isnt a mess, your sheets dont stink, and your bed is made. it will somewhat impress them especially the first time they are their. and they will enjoy themselves more while they are there and that will make them want to come back again.

Plan9Senior

Wow, very nice post Just had to say that

Plan9Senior

Averett, the thing is... you are not the type of girl that can be easily "played" and you should be proud of it. Hopefully some of the things I have told you in this thread will keep you even sharper to look out for the guy who is just trying to get you in bed. You honestly seem like a good girl.. a "keeper" as I call it amongst my friends. Don't mistake our "butting heads" as if I dont like you... I actually think you are an alright girl . Anyhow, just replying...

Plan9Senior

PLEASE keep us updated. All of us men can learn from all of our successes and failures. Good luck

Plan9Senior

Just an update to my RL situations (in case anybody gives 2/3 of a turd), I made a boo-boo. This weekend I met a girl at a club, got her number and ended up getting invited to an afterhours party at her friends house. I showed up late and she was on her way out... I stayed and ended up meeting some girl (whos boyfriend was passed out on the couch) and got her number as well. The next day (tonight) I ran into a group of people (some of those who happened to be at this afterhours party) and met some girl, who was a 9 on my scale, and ended up hitting it off with her and getting her number. Afterwards I figured out that she was friends with both of the girls that I got their numbers the previous night. Ugh! Not sure what will happen, but it definately will prove to be interesting nonetheless

Anyhow, here is another lesson... or rant if you would...

Lately I noticed a lot of guys making excuses for not wanting sex, being celibate, or being intentional IWs ("intellectual whores"—it basically means an AFC who is being used). I gave several responses to try to convince them to change their ways, and in doing so I came to some realizations about why so many guys continue in their IW ways. Some of this stuff might sound like common sense to you guys, but I think it will help if I begin to clarify it and put it into written format.

(Cliff notes: This article expains why guys should follow their desires instead of denying them.)

These guys are afflicted with what I am calling "Fox/Grapes" Syndrome. I am of course alluding to the classic Aesop fable for children here: http://www.bartleby.com/17/1/31.html

Basically the fox fails to get the grapes, so he comforts himself by deciding that they were probably sour anyway.

A guy with fox/grapes syndrome is making a similar mistake by convincing himself that women or sex is sour, because he needs to deal with the fact that he is not getting any. He is finding a treatment for the problem, not a cure. I have been there. I have done that. It sucked. I hope I can spare other guys the pain. He simply needs to learn how to do what is necessary to get the grapes, instead of learning how to live in some form of denial.

Here is my thesis: any man (over 16 or 17, with normal sex drive) who is not doing his best to get women is hurting himself and probably in some kind of denial.

Now we will look at some manifestations of this problem.

When a guy realizes that he is not having the success he wants with women, and decides that he needs to change, he will probably be soon undergo some of the following, in some kind of combination or order.


I. Low self-esteem:
He decides his failures with women are his fault, and that there is something wrong with him, likes his looks, his personality, or whatever. This can lead the guy to try to improve his looks, or his connections, or his finances. He might even land a girl by accident. In the extreme, he might resort to suicide, rape or murder.

II. Misogyny:
He blames women for his failures with them and decides there is something wrong with them. Strangely enough, this attitude can make him slightly more attractive to women, so again, he might be able to attract a girl purely by accident.

III. Denial-Based Mindsets and Worldviews:
He must reconcile the fact that he is a good person, yet he can't get women. So he creates himself a skewed view of the world to maintain his self esteem. Examples—a nice guy self-image, religious/scientific/moral justifications, a victim mindset, or escapism. I'm sure there are more that I haven't listed. Of course, if a guy has religious/scientific/moral/political beliefs, he is not necessarily guilty of being like the fox with the grapes. Everyone's worldview is skewed in some way, including me in this article. What I mean here is that anyone who skews their worldview even more to justify not fulfilling their healthy desires is playing the fox.

Here is the kind of dialogue that might be playing in the guy's head. He is deluding himself, but he doesn't know any better. I think most guys will find this familiar:

"I am a good person. Yet I do not get women. If there is nothing wrong with me, and nothing wrong with them, so there must be some reason why I am not having the success I desire. I do not get women, so maybe there is some reason why I shouldn't get women, or I shouldn't want women...[now he thinks up some justifications like the ones I shall list]"

(Of course, this kind of self delusion is not limited to guys trying to get girls. Both men and women do it in many areas, such as making money i.e. "I am a hard working person. Yet I don't make much money. There must be some reason why I shouldn't have/want money..." My post is written about women, yet most of it applies to just about any deep desire.)

Being around attractive women is bittersweet when he knows that he will not be able to have sex with them. Every guy knows this intuitively. However, some guys get addicted to the sweet part of unfulfilled lust, and they learn to sooth the pain of the bitter part. So they create a belief system or self-image which allows them to sooth or deny the pain. At least his self esteem is not so badly damaged following this path. However, a warped worldview is hard to maintain. I tried. I failed. It sucked. Now I know better. Every time he sees a hot girl, or hears his friends talking about chicks, he must remind himself of his justifications for not getting women. Living in denial takes perpetual work.

Here is another manifestation of such skewed thinking: "I am not going to change my identity just to get girls." So he simply sits and watches the ladies pass him by. At some point, he needs to make a choice: is he willing to do what it takes? More on this in my conclusion.

Plan9Senior

The problem with denial-based systems is that they create dissonance between what the guy wants, and what he thinks he can or should get. Eventually, after years of denial, he might get so good at it that he has removed most of the pain. Repression becomes second nature for him and he doesn't realize it anymore. Many adult males have followed this path. I genuinely feel sorry for them.

i. The nice guy self image:
He becomes an IW. He might decide that he is destined to be a guy who is "not good with girls," and contents himself with IW mediocrity. However, he still might try to win the approval and affection of women, so he starts (or continues) doing things for them and supplicating. In this case, he becomes completely taken for granted and used. In the end, he continues doing things for girls to maintain his own self-image as a nice guy.

He still can't resist approaching women, yet the only way he can make himself comfortable doing it is by further repressing his sexual interest in them. He hides his sexuality, so women use him as a homework/money/advice machine and treat him like a doormat, instead of treating him as a man—or even as a person. Neither of them are to blame for this situation because neither knows better.

To maintain this self-image, he sometimes takes supplication to the extreme. He may believe that he is acting completely altruistically; yet there is still a part of him that wants to bang her. He may not be able to admit it, but either consciously or unconsciously he still wants her. Everything he does will still be influenced by his desire to sleep with her, even if he has consciously realized that this will never happen.

He believes that someday he will "get lucky" with women, or find "the one" (because he doesn't know how to attract them), and someday he might by pure accident. He will probably have one-itis. He will get used as an IW and maybe even pulled into a marriage. He will stay in this relationship not because of "love," but because he has low confidence in his own ability to find a new women in a decent amount of time. Often he will be the provider. He may depend on his IP for validation of himself. Our culture calls this "finding true love." Perhaps he might get sex a few times, but this is an accident, and probably just occurs for kids, or his wife feels it is her obligation.

Of course the ladder theory has a lot more detail on nice guys.

ii. Religious/scientific/moral/political justification:
Religion or morals might teach that having sex, or at least casual sex, is wrong, superficial, or only meant for procreation. He will embrace these beliefs because they excuse his mediocrity with women. He might even embrace celibacy.

However, there is one thing that will not change (unless he gets an operation or becomes a eunuch): sex feels good, and he physically wants to have it. Sure, he can rationalize all day that desire is only electrical signals interpreted by his brain, or sinful desires from the devil, but that will not make those very powerful signals/desires go away. He cannot rationalize away testosterone! He may be using rationalizations or theories to explain why he is not getting women, or why he shouldn't want women; yet again, this is a treatment, not a cure.

Note on religion: Just because a guy is religious, it doesn't mean he is afflicted with fox/grapes syndrome. Only if he is using religion to curtail what he wants or to hurt himself emotionally. Religion and the ladder theory can coexist; as long as his faith is his ally instead of holding him back.

iii. The Victim Mindset
Instead of (or in addition to) blaming himself, or women, he blames the world. He believes that "fate" or "the gods" or something is dooming him to a life with no sex or happiness. Extreme bitterness and chronic alcoholism might ensue (though it is not limiting to this mindset). This mentality can often accompany low self-esteem or celibacy.

iv. Escapism:
He convinces himself that he doesn't, or shouldn't want sex, that he doesn't have time for it, or that it is somehow not for him, or not important in the greater scheme of things. So he withdraws from it. Virtual celibacy is often the result. Escapism usually happens in combination with some of the mindsets I mentioned above.

He might try to convince himself that he can block out lust. We all know that you can't really block it out; there is no "off" switch. God knows sometimes I wish there was. You know, just a little switch in the back of your head that you can flick when a hot, but unatainable girl is near? He can deny lust, but doing that is painful and very hard to do forever. He might use masturbation or porn to temporarily escape his sexual tension (note: masturbation and porn do not necessarily mean a guy is guilty of escapism).

In the end, he withdraws into a monastery (in past history) or immerses himself in his job, or traditional "guy" pastimes such as sports, computer games, math, or other nerdery. I would hypothesize that a large amount of discoveries in hardcore sciences or technology were by men following this path. I heard somewhere that the increasing popularity of football correlates with the decreasing success of the modern man with the ladies. A lot of guys are in such a situation. Note: just by enjoying his job/pastimes does not necessarily make him guilty of this type of escapism. Only if he is doing it to escape from his desires. Nerditude and escapism can often go hand-in-hand, but not always.

However, sometimes in the process a man might attain enough money, power, or fame that he attracts women indirectly, again a strange accident. He can often get very attractive women as trophy wives, Unfortunately, it takes a lot of his life to get this kind of money and power. Our culture calls it "success." Sadly, he is spending thousands of dollars on materialism when he could do just as well with a new attitude (which costs $0). He also might end up spending some of his hard earned dough on prostitutes (though whoring is of course not limited just to this section).

Note: If a man is accumulating money and power for the purpose of getting women, he is not guilty of this type of escapism. His is actually following part of the ladder theory without knowing it.

Plan9Senior

IV. He becomes a player/outlaw biker/pick up artist:
He reads ladder theory, DJ or comparable material, talks to friends, or somehow figures out how to do what is necessary to get women. This is what guys mean when they say "be a man/grow some balls/be the alpha male/go **** ten other women." No longer are women a scourge on his self esteem, because he doesn't have to base his worldview on not getting them. There is a whole spectrum of guys who are successful with women. You could call some of them "players," but that term has a negative connotation so I will redefine it. Here are the two extremes of players:

a. The Outlaw Biker: Also known as the "jerk," or the "asshole." His strategy is "**** and dump, rinse and repeat." He has naturally attracted women since the teenage years with his attitude and pure ego. He doesn't give a flying **** about them or about anyone else, and so they make a beeline for him. He often doesn't treat women very well, and gives other guys a bad name.

Historically, a much larger percent of the population was this type of outlaw biker. For instance, Vikings pillage town, and rape all women. Or drunken knights that manhandled the ladies. Or outdated beliefs that women were only good for procreation. However, throughout the centuries, chivalry, feminism, and women's rights have made outlaw biker behavior less extreme (i.e. "political correctness"). This is a good thing in my opinion, but the guys who weren't outlaw bikers got caught in the cross fire.

Society indoctrinates men at birth to not be outlaw bikers (counter force = pop culture i.e. MTV). That is why nowadays there are so many IWs etc...However, what our culture, political correctness, and feminaziism don't realize is this: as long as some guys can be wilder, more novel, more disinterested, and better looking than others, there will always be outlaw bikers. It doesn't matter how pussified men get, as long as the are all equally pussified, there will always be outlaw bikers. It doesn't matter what the rules are, as long as they can be broken, there will always be outlaw bikers.

Take a bunch of extremely polite and posh British gentlemen from the 1800s ... Put them on a desert island with chick. She will make a beeline for whichever one of them is closest to OBness. You could call this a fact.

A famous punk rocker pothead (the outlaw biker of the present) has basically the same attitude as a Viking chief (the outlaw biker of the past). The only difference is that Mr. Viking pillages towns and rapes women at swordpoint while the punk rocker simply has a few body piercings and plays bad music.

Advantages: OBs get sex naturally, often from day one.

Disadvantages: They make the world hell for women and other guys. They might end up in jail. They rarely can teach other guys to be more successful with women because they do it naturally themselves.

b. The Pick-up Artist (PUA) : You could also call him the "serial charmer." He understands the art and science of attracting women. He might use any of a myriad of techniques to seduce women. He is often a recovering IW or nice guy who has consciously improved his inner game (self-esteem, confidence, attitude, etc...) and outer game (techniques and approaches). Eventually he gains control or his own mental and sexual state, and the state of women he seduces. He might change so much that he appears, or even merges with the outlaw bikers. I predict that more and more guys will be following this path in the future as the information becomes more popular. We are not talking just the DJ stuff here.

This is the path I, and alot of people on this forum are on. I have tried most of the denial-based paths and they just don't work.

Advantages: The PUA's scientific approach can lead him to have much more sex than OBs (of similar wealth/power) because he can learn from his mistakes. He can often get lots of sex on a clean conscience (whereas extreme OBs don't have much of a conscience).

Disadvantages: You can't start out a PUA. It can take him alot of rejection, practice, and studying for him to get success. It ain't easy. All an OB has to do is be himself.

In context: Most players fall somewhere in between these two poles. For example, there are outlaw bikers with a conscience that treat women well (though this seems to be less than 5% of OBs). There are also PUAs that teach themselves to not give a flying **** about women. If you want, you could say that OBs are controlled by their testosterone while PUAs control their testosterone.

Our culture sees only one type of player: the OB. That is why players in generally get a bad name.
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Conclusion: Seeing the Need to Change
You could say that modern men are somewhere in between these four extremes: Outlaw Biker (OB), Pick-up artist (PUA), Nice Guy (NG), and Nerd Escapist (NE).

Each guy starts out at a different point depending on his upbringing, culture, and genetic makeup. Throughout his life, he will hopefully move up to a level of sex that satisfies him. For guys closer to OBness, getting drunk, watching Fight Club or MTV or James Bond, listening to enough Blink182/Korn/Heavy metal, or getting told to "be himself" or "be a man" might be enough to get him laid a few times in his youth. For nicer or nerdier guys, it will take some healthy smacks on the head from the real world, exposure to LT, or an article like this one. For guys who want to **** the really good looking women with the best personalities, it takes either a badass OB attitude, or fastseduction, or both.

"Being Yourself"
This is one of the most common pieces of advice that our society gives. For some guys, it will help them, by moving them closer to OB. For others, it will hold them back, by making them resist change. They develop the attitudes "I am not going to change to get girls," or "if a girl doesn't like me the way I am, I don't want her."

Here is the way I look at it: having success with women is not so much about "changing yourself," it is also about bringing out what is already there. Some guys look at the process as a metamorphosis into something new. Others look at it as a journey of self-discovery. You can even take both views at the same time, whatever brings you the best results.

No man is really capable of "being himself" when he is very unhappy (namely, when he is not fulfilling his desire for sex). All those denial-based belief systems are manifestations of him trying to cope with his unhappiness. Guys in denial about getting women are usually not very happy, nor are they getting much sex. Therefore no man who is in denial is truly being himself.

Averett

Well thanks


I'm on to you boys

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-Anders

Damn

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SAM821

well... i must say that this thread is pretty informative, it gives people ideas of what the can improve on.....

Averett.... you seem like a very genuine girl, being that you are a girl you will always have men hitting on you, some will want to get into your pants, others may perhaps be the real deal. Its up to you to decipher who is who. Dont be discouraged though, just wait and things will happen for you.


I wanted to post my situation to see what you guys think... here is some background of me:

I have always been one of the "nice guys", and honest person, caring, romantic and true hearted. Well, then again, Ive always had a girlfriend, (ive been through quite a few of them....)

well i guess i am at a crossroad... do i continue to be that nice guy or do try to work on my communication skills and confidence level to meet new people. I am unsure cause it is difficult with the heart that i have... I am just a unique person, so even though I have a few people i am talking to, it seems like its gonna get me into a heap of trouble (with all of them finding out)

well here is the deal:

My girlfriend and i just broke up a month or so ago, (i am very in love with her, but it wasnt working out) well, we still have the lingering effects that usually happen in these type of breakups (we are trying to remain friends to see if things can improve, and having "beneficial" time as well) well at the same time, i am talking to one girl that i see as only having the potential to have intimate relations with. I am talking to a second girl that really likes me (but i gave her the too busy to have a relationship excuse) but i am starting to make plans with her. and finally i am talking to a 3rd girl who is a bit older than me (i am 21 she is 23) and we are having LONG talks and we are starting to like each other... well I see this ending up one of two ways... I know if i take my time ( i am single by the way so no wrongdoing is occuring) and go very slow, i can work through this and perhaps the solution will present itself as to who i will end up with (if anyone)....OR #2 I will somehow fuck up, they will get suspicious and all leave... i dont consider myself a player, nor do i want to be one, but i am interested in the experience of meeting new women, several new women...

so what do you guys think?

Recoil

really cool thread. thanks Plan9 and all for the great tips...

Anomaly_

Your latest installment is informative and mind-opening. I know because I cringed reading it. In your terms I would be a combination of the nice guy and escapist with low self-esteem. As extreme options go, you left out the "go gay" one. If I could flip that switch, believe me, I would. It would be so much easier to circumvent this female creature. But back to reality...

This is struck a chord. A rather forward girl at school asked me, during some between class chit-chat, if I had a girlfriend. I almost cracked up; all I could think in my head was "Are you high?" She then asked if I wasn't looking or what the deal was (aside: she does have a boyfriend, which is good, because it kills any fantasy immediately). All I could say was that I'm not that socially fit. This is true of course, but I'm not sure why I almost seem to revel in this status.

iHawk

To make this a bit easier for everyone to read, I put all of Plan9's lessons together and formatted them a bit.

Get it here:

http://iceberg5.dyndns.org/fg101.pdf

http://iceberg5.dyndns.org/fg101.htm

iHawk

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blizzak

nice job mate, i'll get the file post-haste
thanks a bunch

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iHawk

I don't know if that would really change anything. You'd probably have just the same problems finding a guy for you, because then, guys will become for you what girls are right now.
Anyways, I think Plan9's lessons have some pretty good ideas, but don't take them literally, just try to go that direction. It's better than how it is right now. Most important point is, if you don't succeed getting a certain girl, that's not worse than not trying at all. Actually, giving up is worse than rejection, so there is no reason not to keep trying
Eventually it will work.

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