The War on Christmas - Page 3 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ShaniFaye · 12-19-2005, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flstf

I read in the local paper today that several large Christian churches are cancelling their Christmas services this year that fall on a Sunday. Something about too few people available for the service because they prefer to stay home and celebrate with the kids. Sounds like they have their own war against Christmas going on.

My church has always done this....they have a christmas eve service for those that want to attend, and the church is open on christmas day, but there is no "church" service that morning

Ustwo · 12-19-2005, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flstf

I read in the local paper today that several large Christian churches are cancelling their Christmas services this year that fall on a Sunday. Something about too few people available for the service because they prefer to stay home and celebrate with the kids. Sounds like they have their own war against Christmas going on.

The one thing I don't recall from the New Testimont, is where it said to go to church on Sundays.

Though I may well have missed it.

flstf · 12-19-2005, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

My church has always done this....they have a christmas eve service for those that want to attend, and the church is open on christmas day, but there is no "church" service that morning

I wasn't trying to be serious but thought the reports were rather funny.

Megachurches Cancel Christmas

Quote:

Megachurches Cancel Christmas
Compiled by Ted Olsen | posted 12/07/2005 09:30 a.m.

Megachurches won't hold Sunday services December 25
While Christian groups are warring to make sure that business and government workers say "Merry Christmas" instead of "Happy Holidays," one place you won't hear either greeting this December 25 is at many of the largest churches in the country.

That's because, the Lexington Herald-Leader and Chicago Tribune report, the churches won't be open that day. Now, in most years, that wouldn't be terribly surprising: Protestant church offices have closed Christmas day since the time of the Puritans (who closed churches that day both to distinguish themselves from Roman Catholics and in protest of the bacchanal that Christmas celebrations had become in the early 18th century).

But this year, Christmas falls on a Sunday, the day when most churches (excepting those of Sabbatarians and a few others) hold services. Not this year.

Willow Creek Community Church (near Chicago), Southland Christian Church (near Lexington, Ky.), Mars Hill Bible Church (near Grand Rapids, Michigan), North Point Community Church (in Alpharetta, Ga.), and Fellowship Church (near Dallas) are among the churches hanging up a "closed" sign after their many Christmas Eve services. The five churches have a combined weekly attendance of more than 64,500.

And, yes, it's a conspiracy. "Megachurch officials around the country consulted with each other before deciding to take the day off," reports the Herald-Leader.

The reason?

"It's more than being family-friendly," Willow Creek spokeswoman Cally Parkinson told the Herald-Leader. It's being lifestyle-friendly for people who are just very, very busy."

Not offering services on a day that almost everyone has off is lifestyle-friendly how? They're so busy trying to fit in church that the solution is to cancel church? Parkinson explained further to the Chicago Tribune: "Christmas tends to be the one time of year when lots of those unchurched people show up at Willow; why not give them a gift?"

"So hang on," says the Chicagoist blog (not a Christian blog): "You reward people for coming to church by … not making them come to church?"

Let's try another Willow spokesperson.

"At first glance it does sound contrarian," Willow Creek senior pastor Gene Appel told the Tribune. "We don't see it as not having church on Christmas. We see it as decentralizing the church on Christmas—hundreds of thousands of experiences going on around Christmas trees. The best way to honor the birth of Jesus is for families to have a more personal experience on that day."

But if that holds true for Christmas, doesn't it hold true for every other Sunday? Why not decentralize the church every week by telling families "to have a more personal experience on that day"?
--snip--

kutulu · 12-19-2005, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

My church has always done this....they have a christmas eve service for those that want to attend, and the church is open on christmas day, but there is no "church" service that morning

Why didn't that ever happen to me as a kid? Christmas and Easter masses were the worst. Not only were they longer but they were so damn crowded.

Christmas was always best on a Sunday because that meant you didn't have to go to church a second time that weel

maleficent · 12-19-2005, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

Christmas was always best on a Sunday because that meant you didn't have to go to church a second time that weel

Saturday Christmasses were my favorite - could go to midnight mass on saturday and you're covered for sunday and for christmas...

easter was a hateful service- -never any seats and too danged long...

all the good little heathens put on their sunday best and trotted out for sunday mass when they never saw the inside of the church since last easter...

aKula · 12-19-2005, 08:55 AM

The consumerism promoted by comercial interests being linked to christmas is in my opinion a larger threat to christmas.

Charlatan · 12-19-2005, 09:19 AM

I can remember having to go to the midnight service as a kid... I remember the heat and the crush of people and then having to exit to go throw up. I was convinced I was evil because church made me barf.

tecoyah · 12-19-2005, 09:24 AM

Wednesday is the Solstice.....we will celebrate it as we always do....no church, just family, no Wars, just love, no long service, just a short ritual of thanks, no heated debate, just a few minutes of silent devotion, no plasic trucks, just cookies hung on the trees for the fairies (squirrels), no fire and brimstone, Just a few candles to represent the light of coming spring.
I always look forward to this celebration, as it reminds me to be happy, and rekindles the warmth of family in my soul.

Happy Solstice Everyone

kutulu · 12-19-2005, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

Saturday Christmasses were my favorite - could go to midnight mass on saturday and you're covered for sunday and for christmas...

easter was a hateful service- -never any seats and too danged long...

all the good little heathens put on their sunday best and trotted out for sunday mass when they never saw the inside of the church since last easter...

The worst thing about Easter Mass was that there was one Mass in particular that would have a lot of baptisms for new converts. It would easily add a half hour to the Mass. My family learned to avoid that Mass like the plague.

snowy · 12-19-2005, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

I can remember having to go to the midnight service as a kid... I remember the heat and the crush of people and then having to exit to go throw up. I was convinced I was evil because church made me barf.

Boy, that's not at all like what I remember from childhood...poor Charlatan.

We would always have the Christmas pageant Christmas Eve, about 8pm or so. Following the pageant there would be cookies in the fellowship hall, and after cookies, the candlelight Christmas Eve service would start. My church was a big old-fashioned one with enormous stained glass windows running down either side and an elaborate altar with a giant portrait of Jesus hanging above it. The candlelight turned an already beautiful church into a magnificent, magical place--those Christmas Eve services will always live on in my memory.

Easters were also good--the church would always be packed, there would be lively music, and it was generally a celebratory, joyful time.

Now I am hundreds of miles away from my childhood church, and I've yet to find anything that remotely comes close, but I'm trying.

Here is a picture of the altar from the church (I still think it's beautiful):

redsfan11 · 12-20-2005, 03:03 AM

Totally agree- this is such a non-issue. I saw Merry Christmas, but I happen to like Christmas. If I happen to know that someone celebrates a different holiday, then I recognize it - otherwise, I just stick to Christmas. I don't think I am being insensitive. It's not like I;m asking them to convert or anything.

edwhit · 12-20-2005, 06:32 AM

I don't think anyone but extremist are ever offended by what Holiday term people use.

I'm a Christian, and I've never been offended when someone says Happy Xmas, Happy Hannakuh, Happy Winter Solstice, Kwanzi (spelling?) or whatever holiday they celebrate. On the contrary!

I am not a jew but have no problem at all wishing someone that is a Happy Hannakuh.

There are Christians upset that Christmas is actually a peagan Holiday, and there are atheist upset that a Christian Holiday is being forced on them. Idiots.

The holidays are what you make them. Regardless of the term you use, Christmas has become, for me anyway, a family and friends holiday. A time to honor your friends and family and show appreciation towards them. To me that has nothing to do with my religion and everything to do with being a good person.

People complaining about the terms are just bitter little people imo and need to just go back to bed and leave everyone else alone.

There is NO ISSUE!

ratbastid · 12-20-2005, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

The one thing I don't recall from the New Testimont, is where it said to go to church on Sundays.

Though I may well have missed it.

That practice is from a lot further back than the New Testament! Second Commandment: "Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy." Church services are how Jews and Christians have kept that commandment since the days of Moses.

I think it's a little ridiculous that they'd cancel Christmas Day services. Christmas is quite literally the one day of the year I might be at all interested in attending a service.

Xazy · 12-21-2005, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

The one thing I don't recall from the New Testimont, is where it said to go to church on Sundays.

Though I may well have missed it.

I thought the old testimont says on the seventh day you shall rest. How did that become day one?

Cynthetiq · 12-21-2005, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xazy

I thought the old testimont says on the seventh day you shall rest. How did that become day one?

depended on the ruler who decided the calendar

macmanmike6100 · 12-21-2005, 09:23 AM

look, "happy holidays" is said out of respect for those who don't celebrate Christmas per se...how can being respectful be an "act of war"?

ShaniFaye · 12-21-2005, 09:28 AM

The jews (which is what people in the old testement were) observed the sabbath on Saturday, not sunday (actually sundown on friday to sundown on saturday)

which would be the 7th day on our present calendar

Poppinjay · 12-21-2005, 09:50 AM

Who benefits from the non-War On Christmas? Look at Bill O'Reilly's topic list from foxnews.com:

Merry Christmas, Maybe...
November 29, 2005

Three Victories For Christmas Traditionalists
November 30, 2005

What Would Jesus Do?
December 01, 2005

The Yuletide Has Turned...
December 05, 2005

Christmas Humbugs Strike Back
December 06, 2005

What Christmas Controversy?
December 07, 2005

Sears and Target see the Christmas Light
December 12, 2005

Christmas and the Media...
December 14, 2005

War on Christmas!
December 14, 2005 - yes, that's right, two topics about Christmas on the same show

Is the American Catholic Church Running Away from the Christmas Controversy?
December 15, 2005

The American Catholic Church and the Christmas Controversy
December 20, 2005

Plano, Texas and the War on Christmas
December 21, 2005

And my favorite:

Is O'Reilly Talking Too Much About The War On Christmas?
December 13, 2005

Notice the absence of topics on anything going on at the oval office. Shock and awe. Shock and awe.

Val_1 · 12-22-2005, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xazy

I thought the old testimont says on the seventh day you shall rest. How did that become day one?

All is explained here
The article is quite long, but the section titled "Why and When the Weekly Sabbath was Moved" more directly talks about this.

Tophat665 · 12-22-2005, 07:58 PM

Silly Christians insisting it has something to do with a long deceased liberal Jew rather than the winter solstice or a fat house-breaker in a red suit constitute a war on Christmas. Have some sense folks. Leave well enough alone. Happy holidays, y'all, and a Merry Cristmas to boot.

simonrex22 · 12-23-2005, 09:28 AM

Ok, I just spent ten minutes writing something and my internet cable fell out before I hit the post button. Heres the short version.

Happy Holiday's is a plural word. Christmas and New Years are the implied holidays. If you want to wish someone a happy christmas, you say "Merry Christmas". If you wanna wish someone a happy christmas and new year, you say "Happy Holidays". Does this make sense? Im guessing most people have a couple weeks off for both Christmas and New Years. Being as you probably wont see people until after new years you wish them a Happy Holdiay, which includes Christmas AND New Years.

This is ridiculous. I also heard that Walmart cashiers arent allowed to say it to the customers.

Bill O'Rights · 12-23-2005, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simonrex22

Im guessing most people have a couple weeks off for both Christmas and New Years.

Huh? I'm guessing that most people don't. A couple of weeks? Damn, where do you work? Oh...wait a minute. You're still in school, aren't you?
And I think that the "Holidays" can be a little more inclusive than just Christmas and New Year's. Although...I would also hazzard that there lies the origination of "Happy Holidays".

simonrex22 · 12-23-2005, 01:36 PM

Where do I work? Obviously a better job than you. Shit, I used to get a week vacation when i was working part time in retail when i was 19. And before you insult someone, why dont you get some facts to back up your bullshit. HAPPY HOLIDAY'S!!

Beccarain · 12-28-2005, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

This is such a non-issue. What is it? Does Bill O'Reilly have nothing better to rail against this week?

Seriously. We in North America live in multicultural societies. At one point we were nations made up of predominantly one religion, Christianity (and it's various branches). This is no longer the case. Many other cultures and religions are part of the make up of our nations. Why wouldn't we make the effort to be more inclusive rather than the opposite?

Happy Holidays is an inclusive statement. It doesn't exclude Christmas or any other celebration. It embraces all at the expense of none.

Get over it already and pass the fricken egg nog.

Yeah! I like Bill O'Reilly but his harping on this topic irritated me. I've said Happy Holidays for years, mainly because it encompasses everything between Thanksgiving and New Years.

View Poll Results: Does using the phrase Happy Holidays constitute a War on Christmas?
Yes	17	12.32%
No	106	76.81%
I'm not sure	5	3.62%
I have no opinion	10	7.25%
Voters: 138. You may not vote on this poll

12-19-2005, 08:55 AM	#86 (permalink)
aKula Psycho	The consumerism promoted by comercial interests being linked to christmas is in my opinion a larger threat to christmas. __________________ "I am the wrath of God. The earth I pass will see me and tremble." -Klaus Kinski as Don Lope de Aguirre

12-19-2005, 09:19 AM	#87 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I can remember having to go to the midnight service as a kid... I remember the heat and the crush of people and then having to exit to go throw up. I was convinced I was evil because church made me barf. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

12-19-2005, 09:24 AM	#88 (permalink)
tecoyah Illusionary	Wednesday is the Solstice.....we will celebrate it as we always do....no church, just family, no Wars, just love, no long service, just a short ritual of thanks, no heated debate, just a few minutes of silent devotion, no plasic trucks, just cookies hung on the trees for the fairies (squirrels), no fire and brimstone, Just a few candles to represent the light of coming spring. I always look forward to this celebration, as it reminds me to be happy, and rekindles the warmth of family in my soul. Happy Solstice Everyone __________________ Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

12-21-2005, 09:28 AM	#97 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	The jews (which is what people in the old testement were) observed the sabbath on Saturday, not sunday (actually sundown on friday to sundown on saturday) which would be the 7th day on our present calendar __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

12-20-2005, 03:03 AM	#91 (permalink)
redsfan11 Upright	Totally agree- this is such a non-issue. I saw Merry Christmas, but I happen to like Christmas. If I happen to know that someone celebrates a different holiday, then I recognize it - otherwise, I just stick to Christmas. I don't think I am being insensitive. It's not like I;m asking them to convert or anything.

12-20-2005, 06:32 AM	#92 (permalink)
edwhit Tilted	I don't think anyone but extremist are ever offended by what Holiday term people use. I'm a Christian, and I've never been offended when someone says Happy Xmas, Happy Hannakuh, Happy Winter Solstice, Kwanzi (spelling?) or whatever holiday they celebrate. On the contrary! I am not a jew but have no problem at all wishing someone that is a Happy Hannakuh. There are Christians upset that Christmas is actually a peagan Holiday, and there are atheist upset that a Christian Holiday is being forced on them. Idiots. The holidays are what you make them. Regardless of the term you use, Christmas has become, for me anyway, a family and friends holiday. A time to honor your friends and family and show appreciation towards them. To me that has nothing to do with my religion and everything to do with being a good person. People complaining about the terms are just bitter little people imo and need to just go back to bed and leave everyone else alone. There is NO ISSUE!

12-21-2005, 09:23 AM	#96 (permalink)
macmanmike6100 High Honorary Junkie Location: Tri-state.	look, "happy holidays" is said out of respect for those who don't celebrate Christmas per se...how can being respectful be an "act of war"?

12-21-2005, 09:50 AM	#98 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	Who benefits from the non-War On Christmas? Look at Bill O'Reilly's topic list from foxnews.com: Merry Christmas, Maybe... November 29, 2005 Three Victories For Christmas Traditionalists November 30, 2005 What Would Jesus Do? December 01, 2005 The Yuletide Has Turned... December 05, 2005 Christmas Humbugs Strike Back December 06, 2005 What Christmas Controversy? December 07, 2005 Sears and Target see the Christmas Light December 12, 2005 Christmas and the Media... December 14, 2005 War on Christmas! December 14, 2005 - yes, that's right, two topics about Christmas on the same show Is the American Catholic Church Running Away from the Christmas Controversy? December 15, 2005 The American Catholic Church and the Christmas Controversy December 20, 2005 Plano, Texas and the War on Christmas December 21, 2005 And my favorite: Is O'Reilly Talking Too Much About The War On Christmas? December 13, 2005 Notice the absence of topics on anything going on at the oval office. Shock and awe. Shock and awe. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

12-22-2005, 07:58 PM	#100 (permalink)
Tophat665 Minion of the scaléd ones Location: Northeast Jesusland	Silly Christians insisting it has something to do with a long deceased liberal Jew rather than the winter solstice or a fat house-breaker in a red suit constitute a war on Christmas. Have some sense folks. Leave well enough alone. Happy holidays, y'all, and a Merry Cristmas to boot. __________________ Light a man a fire, and he will be warm while it burns. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

12-23-2005, 09:28 AM	#101 (permalink)
simonrex22 Insane	Ok, I just spent ten minutes writing something and my internet cable fell out before I hit the post button. Heres the short version. Happy Holiday's is a plural word. Christmas and New Years are the implied holidays. If you want to wish someone a happy christmas, you say "Merry Christmas". If you wanna wish someone a happy christmas and new year, you say "Happy Holidays". Does this make sense? Im guessing most people have a couple weeks off for both Christmas and New Years. Being as you probably wont see people until after new years you wish them a Happy Holdiay, which includes Christmas AND New Years. This is ridiculous. I also heard that Walmart cashiers arent allowed to say it to the customers.

12-23-2005, 01:36 PM	#103 (permalink)
simonrex22 Insane	Where do I work? Obviously a better job than you. Shit, I used to get a week vacation when i was working part time in retail when i was 19. And before you insult someone, why dont you get some facts to back up your bullshit. HAPPY HOLIDAY'S!!