UK approves gay civil unions. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Gilda · 12-05-2005, 02:02 PM

Quote:

'Gay weddings' become law in UK
Brian Jones (left) and Anthony Carter register their intent to form a civil partnership
Hundreds of gay couples are preparing to form civil partnerships in the coming weeks as the law changes after decades of campaigning.

At least 1,200 ceremonies are confirmed as being scheduled already, according to figures from councils compiled by the BBC News website.

Registrars are preparing for the first ceremonies, with couples permitted to register from Monday morning.

Campaigners says the law ends inequalities for same-sex couples.

The first ceremonies under the Civil Partnerships Act can take place in Northern Ireland on 19 December, followed by Scotland the next day and England and Wales on 21 December.

Under the law, couples who want to form a partnership must register their intentions with local councils. Unlike marriages, the signing of the legal partnership papers does not need to happen in public.

Bookings coming in

Hundreds of couples are expected to go ahead quickly, with Brighton conducting 198 ceremonies before the end of the year. Overall, the city has taken 510 bookings for the coming months, thought to be the highest in the country.

Other cities which have seen strong interest include London, Manchester, Birmingham, Newcastle and Edinburgh.

Meg Munn, minister for equality, said the government expected 4,500 couples to get "partnered" in the first year.

"This is an important piece of legislation that gives legal recognition to relationships which until now were invisible in the eyes of the law," Ms Munn told the BBC News website.

"It accords people in same-sex relationships the same sort of rights and responsibilities that are available to married couples.

"We know there are people who have been together maybe 40 years and have been waiting for the chance to do this kind of thing, because of the important differences it makes to their lives.

"They have the same concerns as married couples - tenancy, ownership, pensions and inheritance."

Alan Wardle, of gay campaign group Stonewall, said the importance of the change should not be underestimated.

"Our view is that civil partnerships are transformative for the lives of individual couples and their rights, but also for society more generally.

"Society now legally recognises gay relationships for the first time.

"It's a big day but 21 December, when the first partnerships take place, will be even bigger because that will see gay and lesbian people removing discrimination."

But a spokesman for the one of the UK's major Christian groups told the BBC they believed same-sex couples should not get the same rights as married couples.

"If you transport something unique, like marriage, into a different context, there's always a cost. And the cost here is in terms of reduction of marriage and the undermining of it," Don Horrocks of the Evangelical Alliance said.

Reticent councils

Retailers are already beginning to cash in on the new partnerships.

A range of "Mr and Mr" and "Mrs and Mrs" cards will hit Asda supermarkets this week.

And sets of "Darling, Dearest, Queerest" embroidered towel and soaps went on sale at Superdrug stores on Friday.

Meanwhile, three short advertisements were published in the Births, Marriages and Deaths columns under the heading Civil partnerships in Monday's Times newspaper.

The heading is a new addition to the paper, which has carried family announcements for nearly 221 years.

Campaigners have focused on councils which have been equivocal about the new law.

Bromley in south-east London had initially planned not to offer public ceremonies. Lisburn in Northern Ireland also overturned a proposed ban.

Ms Munn said any councils dragging their feet needed to comply with the both the spirit and letter of the law.

"The legislation requires that every authority must offer a civil partnership. The basic level of that is a simple signing of a register - some couples may just want that alone.

"But if any councils are saying they won't allow [public] ceremonies, for couples who want that kind of celebration, then it's time they came into the 21st century."

Three cheers for the UK, and once again the US lags behind other Western countries in civil rights.

I must say my favorite part was this:

Quote:

A range of "Mr and Mr" and "Mrs and Mrs" cards will hit Asda supermarkets this week.

And sets of "Darling, Dearest, Queerest" embroidered towel and soaps went on sale at Superdrug stores on Friday.

Ah, the joy of the marketplace at work.

Gilda

Ace_O_Spades · 12-05-2005, 02:35 PM

fantastic news, always nice to see forward social thinking.

Furry · 12-05-2005, 02:53 PM

Hurrah for us. It'll solve a lot of problems - ok, and create a few too - and hopefully finally put an end to the use of "gay" tags as insults.

Charlatan · 12-05-2005, 03:58 PM

UK!!! Welcome the club of enlightened nations!

Willravel · 12-05-2005, 04:03 PM

We'll be joining you after a few Democratic presidents, I swear!! In the mein time, enjoy the freedom do marry man or woman, whether you be man or woman. Hat's off to you.

lurkette · 12-06-2005, 08:14 AM

Hooray for the UK! I mean, if SPAIN, a Catholic stronghold, can approve gay marriage, can the rest of Europe (and hopefully, eventually the US) be far behind?

filtherton · 12-06-2005, 08:30 AM

Yeah, hopefully, after the social structure of u.k. noticably doesn't crumble, we can get have yet another country to point to and say "Look, gay marriage hasn't destroyed anything."

jwoody · 12-06-2005, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

Yeah, hopefully, after the social structure of u.k. noticably doesn't crumble, we can get have yet another country to point to and say "Look, gay marriage hasn't destroyed anything."

Aaah! But, it isn't gay marriage. It's a civil union.

(I'm hardcore atheist so I couldn't give a toss, personally)

I don't know the detail for gays but if I entered into a civil union with a woman then the highest earner of us would pay a lower rate of tax.

The sole purpose of the tax cut is to encourage breeding.

Now my question is....

Do I really care about the answer to my question?

The answer: No.

I'm just waffling to kill some time whilst simultaneously appearing to work.

Sage · 12-06-2005, 09:00 AM

I can't say how happy I am that this is going on- I totally am looking forward to the UK's society *not* crumbling morally or having the wrath of God smite them off the planet, and then being able to say (as was previously stated) "SEE! It's not such a big deal after all!"

Three cheers for cooler English heads!

martinguerre · 12-06-2005, 10:52 AM

"Meg Munn, minister for equality, said the government expected 4,500 couples to get "partnered" in the first year."

That's right. Minister for Equality. Hell, yeah.

Ustwo · 12-06-2005, 11:01 AM

Population of UK. 60,441,457
Number of people planned to be partnered 9000

Percentage of the population: .015% of the population.

I'm sure there is something interesting there to comment on, but I can't figure it out. While I do have reservations about homosexual couples adopting children the rest seems like a much todo about nothing.

DonovanDuVal · 12-06-2005, 12:42 PM

Glad we've taken a sensible approach to what shouldn't be a problem in the first place. Disappointed that I have been hearing this discussed since I was a small child and it's taken this long to come to fruition. Raising my eybrows and thinking 'typical' when reading about the speed with which the shops are cashing in on this change.

genuinegirly · 12-06-2005, 12:51 PM

YAY! About time a whole country decided to acknowledge the homosexual population.

Darling, Dearest, Queerest towels and soaps sound quite the fun.

analog · 12-06-2005, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

Population of UK. 60,441,457
Number of people planned to be partnered 9000

Percentage of the population: .015% of the population.

I'm sure there is something interesting there to comment on, but I can't figure it out. While I do have reservations about homosexual couples adopting children the rest seems like a much todo about nothing.

That's how many people want to get married right this second. I'd be interested to know how many planned marriages for hetero couples there are, and what percentage of the straight folk that is... not everyone is ready to get married right this second, but that doesn't mean they won't fight for the right to be able to if/when they want to be able to.

snowy · 12-06-2005, 03:50 PM

Congrats to the UK...hopefully soon we will be following their great example.

Gilda · 12-06-2005, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by genuinegirly

YAY! About time a whole country decided to acknowledge the homosexual population.

We are now lagging behind Canada, the UK, and South Africa on this particular issue. You want an example of irony? We don't have gay marriage or civil unions in most of the US because of religious objections, but the first place in the UK where it will be legal is going to be Northern Ireland.

Gilda

Ustwo · 12-06-2005, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

That's how many people want to get married right this second. I'd be interested to know how many planned marriages for hetero couples there are, and what percentage of the straight folk that is... not everyone is ready to get married right this second, but that doesn't mean they won't fight for the right to be able to if/when they want to be able to.

No thats for the first year. If all these couples have been waiting for this odds are the number should be less the year after. I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to, I'm just saying as a social injustice it seems to be blown a bit out of proportion. You can't say what it 'does' to society because the number is just too small.

Ace_O_Spades · 12-06-2005, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

No thats for the first year. If all these couples have been waiting for this odds are the number should be less the year after. I'm not saying they shouldn't be allowed to, I'm just saying as a social injustice it seems to be blown a bit out of proportion. You can't say what it 'does' to society because the number is just too small.

This line of reasoning is dangerous.

They're a minority group, this law is to protect minority rights... in this case, the right to civil union.

Just because the population of the minority group is small doesn't mean that denying them fundamental rights available to everyone else outside their minority group isn't a social injustice.

pan6467 · 12-06-2005, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl

Congrats to the UK...hopefully soon we will be following their great example.

I second that.

It is sad and comments negatively when our society in the US, as we want to believe we are world leaders in everything and yet our religious leaders choose to show backward thinking, fearmongering and prejudice.

It truly is a social injustice that we allow our government to dictate who, of legal age, can and cannot be married.

Ustwo · 12-06-2005, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace_O_Spades

This line of reasoning is dangerous.

They're a minority group, this law is to protect minority rights... in this case, the right to civil union.

Just because the population of the minority group is small doesn't mean that denying them fundamental rights available to everyone else outside their minority group isn't a social injustice.

I agree with your logic, but I am a bit confused.

Being the gay population is well over .015%, even by the most conservative estimates, it doesn't seem to be that important an issue to them as well, beyond symbolic.

martinguerre · 12-06-2005, 10:27 PM

i just don't get the point of that percentage. unless you have a per year per thousand comparision with hetero figures...that number is meaningless.

frankly, i suspect it's lower after doing that math. some queer communities aren't looking for state recognition of relationships in this way...just like some hetero ones aren't. but for a group that has a long history of having the state fail to understand or respect us...i'm just not surprised that state recognized marriage has some resistance at the moment.

Ustwo · 12-06-2005, 10:52 PM

The point is I'm surprised more people are not doing it.

50.7% of all adults in the UK are married (don't know where that falls for total population), and after all the fuss about gay marriage I am honnestly surprised that its not really an issue for most homosexuals.

martinguerre · 12-07-2005, 08:27 AM

currently married, not getting married in the next year. apples/oranges=error.

Ustwo · 12-07-2005, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinguerre

currently married, not getting married in the next year. apples/oranges=error.

Well I know you get defensive about these things but think about it.

Homosexuals were denied this, and are now allowed. There should be a backlog of people who want to do this, and there doesn't seem to be much of one. Apparently the right to be married for homosexuals is more of a symbolic one than one they really had a use for as a whole. I'm not saying its not right for some, just that its not something most seem interested in.

martinguerre · 12-07-2005, 10:06 AM

Hunh? I'm defensive? Right.

Anyhow. I already talked about that.

Quote:

frankly, i suspect it's lower after doing that math. some queer communities aren't looking for state recognition of relationships in this way...just like some hetero ones aren't. but for a group that has a long history of having the state fail to understand or respect us...i'm just not surprised that state recognized marriage has some resistance at the moment.

That's my guess.

Ustwo · 12-07-2005, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by martinguerre

Hunh? I'm defensive? Right.

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=91131

Yes martin, defensive

martinguerre · 12-07-2005, 12:59 PM

which makes you offensive?

I pointed out your bad math, no more/no less...look at my tone here, and tell me who's flipping shit.

12-05-2005, 02:35 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ace_O_Spades The Death Card Location: EH!?!?	fantastic news, always nice to see forward social thinking. __________________ Feh.

12-05-2005, 02:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
Furry Crazy Location: UK	Hurrah for us. It'll solve a lot of problems - ok, and create a few too - and hopefully finally put an end to the use of "gay" tags as insults. __________________ Furry is the leader of his own cult, the "Furballs of Doom". They sit about chanting "Doom, Doom, Doom". (From a random shot in the dark by SirLance)

12-05-2005, 03:58 PM	#4 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	UK!!! Welcome the club of enlightened nations! __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

12-06-2005, 08:14 AM	#6 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	Hooray for the UK! I mean, if SPAIN, a Catholic stronghold, can approve gay marriage, can the rest of Europe (and hopefully, eventually the US) be far behind? __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

12-06-2005, 09:00 AM	#9 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	I can't say how happy I am that this is going on- I totally am looking forward to the UK's society not crumbling morally or having the wrath of God smite them off the planet, and then being able to say (as was previously stated) "SEE! It's not such a big deal after all!" Three cheers for cooler English heads! __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi

12-05-2005, 04:03 PM	#5 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	We'll be joining you after a few Democratic presidents, I swear!! In the mein time, enjoy the freedom do marry man or woman, whether you be man or woman. Hat's off to you.

12-06-2005, 08:30 AM	#7 (permalink)
filtherton Junkie Location: In the land of ice and snow.	Yeah, hopefully, after the social structure of u.k. noticably doesn't crumble, we can get have yet another country to point to and say "Look, gay marriage hasn't destroyed anything."

12-06-2005, 10:52 AM	#10 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	"Meg Munn, minister for equality, said the government expected 4,500 couples to get "partnered" in the first year." That's right. Minister for Equality. Hell, yeah. __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

12-06-2005, 11:01 AM	#11 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Population of UK. 60,441,457 Number of people planned to be partnered 9000 Percentage of the population: .015% of the population. I'm sure there is something interesting there to comment on, but I can't figure it out. While I do have reservations about homosexual couples adopting children the rest seems like a much todo about nothing. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

12-06-2005, 12:42 PM	#12 (permalink)
DonovanDuVal Crazy Location: UK	Glad we've taken a sensible approach to what shouldn't be a problem in the first place. Disappointed that I have been hearing this discussed since I was a small child and it's taken this long to come to fruition. Raising my eybrows and thinking 'typical' when reading about the speed with which the shops are cashing in on this change. __________________ "I've been Donovan DuVal. Take care of yourselves, and each other."

12-06-2005, 12:51 PM	#13 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	YAY! About time a whole country decided to acknowledge the homosexual population. Darling, Dearest, Queerest towels and soaps sound quite the fun. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

12-06-2005, 03:50 PM	#15 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	Congrats to the UK...hopefully soon we will be following their great example. __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

12-06-2005, 10:27 PM	#21 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	i just don't get the point of that percentage. unless you have a per year per thousand comparision with hetero figures...that number is meaningless. frankly, i suspect it's lower after doing that math. some queer communities aren't looking for state recognition of relationships in this way...just like some hetero ones aren't. but for a group that has a long history of having the state fail to understand or respect us...i'm just not surprised that state recognized marriage has some resistance at the moment. __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

12-06-2005, 10:52 PM	#22 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	The point is I'm surprised more people are not doing it. 50.7% of all adults in the UK are married (don't know where that falls for total population), and after all the fuss about gay marriage I am honnestly surprised that its not really an issue for most homosexuals. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

12-07-2005, 08:27 AM	#23 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	currently married, not getting married in the next year. apples/oranges=error. __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16

12-07-2005, 12:59 PM	#27 (permalink)
martinguerre whosoever Location: New England	which makes you offensive? I pointed out your bad math, no more/no less...look at my tone here, and tell me who's flipping shit. __________________ For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life. -John 3:16