Pragma

If you have the proper permit, you can carry a gun on a domestic flight (generally, you have to be a federal law enforcement officer). If you have a diplomatic passport and the proper permit, you can carry a gun on an international flight.

Otherwise, no.

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xepherys

Too bad if you don't want to hear it... when did Americans become such pussies? We fought tooth and nail to gain our independance, to fight about slavery, to fight (twice) for world freedom. Now we can barely keep a military together (at least in the form it has historically been) because we can't yell at soldiers or treat them badly? W...T...F...? As far as the stewardess... I'm sorry, I'd rather one person die than a whole plane full (or a whole building full). One pretty blonde losing her life isn't going to stop me from trying to prevent a larger incident. *boggle*

d*d

I didn't say Americans were pussies.

Anywat what about all the guys who were on the flights that were used, were they all 'pussies' - they were only using box cutters- It's easy to talk like that when your sat behind a computer,
My point is - taking control of a plane can be done through pretty much through intimidation alone.

xepherys

It has nothing to do with sitting behind my computer. Hey, remember that one plane where someone DID do something about it? And no, you didn't say Americans were pussies... I did! Intimidation is not a valid excuse to let thousands of people die. My life is not greater than the lives of all of those in the WTC. It's sad that some people can't see that. Besides, they died anyway... why just sit there pissing you pants. If you're almost definitely going to die anyway, you may as well prevent as many seconday deaths as possible.

highthief

Did that really happen though? Wasn't there some black box/cockpit recording that suggested the whole "let's roll" thing was not what really happened? I remember this being talked about for a while and then nada.

Edit: Now I recall, there was a recording of the guy saying he and a couple of others were going to do something against the hijackers but we never learned what the outcome was - whether they did it, or deliberately crashed the plane or it was shot down.

Anyway, what d*d is saying is true, people do freeze and can be afraid to act, even if when thinking straight they know that they should get up and do something about a dangerous situation. Most passengers won't likely interfere.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

Charlatan

The other thing that is being forgotten in this haste to apply the lable, "pussy" is that prior to September 11th, hijackers didn't fly planes into buildings.

The practice when confronted by a hijacker was to do as they say and noone will get hurt. The plane would land in some neutral territory (Cuba or Palestine) and usually noone would get hurt.

The one plane where they did fight back (if in fact this is what happened) did so because they found out that two other planes had already crashed into the WTC.

If a group tried to take a plane today, I have no question in my mind that people would risk injury or death to stop the hijack (short of the hijacker carrying a gun).

That said, in all likelihood, the plane would be shot down before it got anywhere near it's destination.

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flstf

I agree. The boxcutter routine will not work again and even if they use a gun. Once people realize they are going to die anyway they will be very difficult to control.

Rekna

I know how to make flights safe! all passengers should have to fly naked! Thats right birthday suit planes!

maleficent

exactly -- i have a colleague who was a pilot for eastern... the policy was to cooperate and get the plane on the ground safely... (and if you go to cuba bring back some cigars) That all changed...

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highthief

Then why do people keep letting themselves get kidnapped in Iraq, knowing it is a likely death sentence?

Because people freeze and don't know how or when to act. The rational aspect of the brain gets overruled by the irrational "oh, I'm screwed" portion of the brain.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

Charlatan

Highthief I don't think you can easily compare the two situations. In a plane, you are in a very small space. The kind of weapon being used has a limited range and the hostages vastly out number the hijackers.

I agree, most people would freeze initially, but given enough time, courage can build.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Psycho Dad

IIRC, the "shoe bomber" was taken under control by passengers (as have been a few rowdy drunks since 9/11). I'd suspect that there would be many able and willing people to put up a fight against a hijacker or hijackers with scissors or maybe even a gun.

BTW, now that I think of it... I can't recall hearing any tales of Air Marshalls getting any situations under control since their placement on some US flights.

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Willravel

This is true. Even though I'm a self proclaimed pacifist, I'd probably try something if someone tried to take my plane. In the case of most hijackings, the hijackers are greatly outnumbered, and maybe one of them is armed, rarely with a gun. Those seem like fair odds. I suggest to anyone on a hijacked plane to try and take back the plane. Afterwards, maybe give em wet willies until you get back on the ground. Show them the consequences for their actions.

xepherys

I dunno... For me, my "fight or flight" instinct is very strong, and when flight isn't an option (like on an airborne plane) that fight instinct is not to be trifled with!

highthief

Sure you can - if you know, conceptually, that if you get taken hostage and won't be let go until "all prisoners are released by the infidels" or words to that effect, you are a complete idiot if you allow yourself to be taken. Every westerner should be walking around with a hand grenade with one hand on the pin, ready to blow himself and 5 terrorists up should they try and take him. But it doesn't happen.

You don't even have to go that far, if that is too far out for you - crimes, violent crimes, are commited every day in public places, in subways and parking lots and city streets, people are beaten and robbed and even killed, yet dozens of bystanders stand there, unable to move, knowing that what they are seeing is wrong, yet are unwilling or unable to do anythign about it.

Most people are simply too afraid to do very much.

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Si vis pacem parabellum.

pattycakes

they can do all this security bullshit they want. if someone is going to make an attack on an airplane it will happen. marshals wont do shit snipers wont do shit, because no one will know untill it happens. we can have these face scanners, fingerprint scanners.... for everynew waste of money we throw out there.... there is another way around it.

and you know what yes i think we should all carry guns. if eveyone had a gun everyone would be afraid to rob anyone or comit a crime because everyone in that bank or on that plane would have a gun, and that person would get shot

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Charlatan

By your tone of your post I sounds like you would like a laisser-fair approach to air travel. Everyone should carry, no precautions should be taken... sounds like a great idea.

I think we can ALL agree that there should be some level of security on airplanes. The question lies in where to draw the line.

As for everyone carrying weapons on a plane... not a great idea. I am willing to concede the argument that crime will drop if everyone is packing (not that I agree with the idea just that I will concede). An airplane is a closed environment. No one else should have guns or weapons. Hence there should be no need for any weapon beyond your fists (if it comes down to it).

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

oberon

Personally, I feel the TSA has done absolutely nothing to stop terrorists, compared to pre-9/11 airport security. You aren't going to stop real terrorists with a couple of x-ray machines and wands. Their new procedures are stupid and just waste millions of travelers' time. They should either use newer and better technology, simply ban carry-ons altogether, or do what Israel does and question people & watch for suspicious behavior instead of scanning them for possible weapons.

Personally, if I was a terrorist, I'd much rather target large train stations with biological or chemical weapons. Like, go to Grand Central Terminal, NYC or Montgomery St BART/MUNI station, San Francisco or State Station, Chicago, and leave a bomb somewhere that will go off shortly before rush hour. Carrying something very lethal like VX or anthrax. THAT, in my opinion, is a much greater threat than some terrorist trying to hijack a plane. And MUCH harder to protect against. Yet the government spends less money on protecting mass transit train systems than airports, and they STILL don't get the latter right.

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