Charlatan

It is easier to claim "Hatred" than to take a hard look at the belief structure of your religion. Nobody likes to hear they are being intolerant.

Ustwo does make a good point that we don't have the full picture. That said, if the young lady is a "trouble maker" she should be expelled based on this and not the fact that her parents are lesbians (which others have pointed out, is not addressed in the Bible only in their school policy).

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Phage

Fortunately, it is not for you to decree what makes someone a Christian. I am not going to argue each of those points because the mere idea that you can remove their right to follow their faith because you disagree about interpretation shows you to be massively mistaken, militant, and dare I say mentally damaged. These people can practice their religion without seeking legitimacy from you.


You can Dare ......but I dont recommend direct insults to other members when you get back....in say...oh....three days

Ustwo

I fired a stupid and incompetent employee of mine the other week. It was a lot easier to fire her for being late repeatedly than for being crappy at her job. If she were good at her job I wouldn't have fired her for being late, the late part was an excuse and easy to document. If you have someone who always seems to be involved in problems, just barely stays in the school rules and pushes the limits constantly and then they basically offered you an excuse to get rid of her you take it. Now maybe the story plays out just like it sounds, but until then EVERYTHING in this thread is nothing but speculation and typical Christian bashing. Its fashionable for the left to bash Christians of course, and I'd be willing to wager this story gets more play in the press (if the facts measure up) then the two gay boys executed in Iran. I also doubt that if this school were a Jewish or Islamic school that it would get nearly the coverage.

I may no longer be a Christian, but its safe to say that Christians and white males are the two groups you are allowed to say bad things about and not get accused of being intolerant to some degree.

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Phage

Homosexuality, the act, is as much a biological imperative for homosexuals as bedding every sorostitute is for the straight guy. Many religions, Christianity included, have no trouble restricting the sexual choices of straight people along with gay.


A matter of interpretation. I am not going to argue the point simply because it is not relevant to the discussion. This particular sect of Christianity has decided that God thinks homosexuality is wrong. They acted reasonably given those beliefs.

Charlatan

I do get your point, I just think they made a poor choice for their excuse. "Troublemaker" getting expelled is a lot less contentious then their choice.

I recognize the trend as well. However, I think I am fairly Universal in my examination of this sort of intolerence. I would be just as quick to condemn a homosexual school that banned straights.

The thing is, Christianity of this sort, seems to me to step away from what I see as the intention of Christianity and just use the religion as a prop for their personal intolerance. I take comfort in the fact that given enough time, this sort of intolerance will fade into the past like the nonsense it is.

I wonder at the source for this story. It originated with the LA Times and was picked up by AP. These are the only two sources so far and the AP story is based in the LA Times one. Given that the parents aren't going to appeal the decision I wonder who called the paper?

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Strange Famous

like I said, people are free to believe in what they want. But Mosiac law is rather clear (and I would add close to impossible for a modern person to follow) - if you use the Bible as your guide, that means you must follow the law.

If on the other hand, you choose to believe in the general truth of Yahweh/Jehovah/Allah as a God, pr Yeshua/Jesus/Isa as a prophet or God, without taking the bible literally... then thats fine and I wouldnt myself say it was an unreasonable world view at all. But it is a deviation from biblical law, and it is a deviation from what the bible says about Jesus.

Of course, we all, whether as a church or an individual have the power to do as Paul, and say "actually Jesus didnt mean these things which are written down" and claim to have developed a more true understanding through divine inspiration of some kind - whether this should properly be allowed to claim the title of the original religion, I am not sure. For myself, they can call themselves what they want - but it is rather confusing if so many people call themselves Christians and believe findamentally different things.

I guess the only part I do find rather hypocritical, and rather unworthy, is for an organisation to claim Leviticus as an inspiration for one thing (such as the discrimination against homosexuals), but to ignore other commands of the bible. I would find it hard to respect the opinion of someone who says homosexuality is wrong because the bible says so, but who eats pork, for example.

For myself, I eat pork, support people's right to chose whatever sexuality that they want, and do not believe homosexuals should be killed (as the law states) - but I still believe that Yeshua was a prophet (although I do think that Paul rather misrepresented him in the gospels) - and I dont call myself a Christian, but I probably believe in the same God that they do.... I just dont think that the Bible is the literal word of God. But the point is, if you ARE going to claim the Bible is the word of God, you have to follow it all, not just the parts that you like the look of.

In regards to this school, I would agree that the school officials should not face criminal charges in this case, however I think it would be appropriate for the state to withdraw any and all support to make it hard for this organisation to exist. They have the right to discriminate, and so do we. They may discriminate against a young girl because she has two mom's, and we may practice non-violent discrimination against them because we find these actions unacceptable.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Charlatan

This is just pure ignorance. You are equating promiscuity with being homosexual. That's as spurious as saying all black men have big dicks or all Asian men are really good at math.

The parents in question have been together for 22 years. Seems to me to be a stable family.

I don't disagree that they acted base on their beliefs. I just feel that their beliefs are at odds with laws of discrimination (the same law that would prevent them from keeping Blacks out of their school). Add to this, I feel their interpretation of Christianity is flawed. They are using the religion to support their own bias (a common practice)... were they to follow all of the Old Testament laws instead of just picking and chosing those that work for them, they would have to live a very different lifestlye.

Christianity while informed by the OT is not bound by the OT. Otherwise keep Kosher like a good othodox Jew.


(by the way, I will say it again: calling people mentally deranged and morons is not acceptable)

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Strange Famous

well, I suppose as the guy said to me, maybe that's the beauty of the cult of Jesus. Because so little of what he really said survives first hand - you can believe what you wish about him, and see "true Christianity" as representing the values that you hold to be true.

So I can choose to see Yeshua, a socialist and pacifist Rabbi, preaching equality, forbidding private property, and a mantra of love all the people

And someone with a different world view to me can see Jesus: a divine virgin of a virgin mother, forbidding divorce and immorality, saying he has come to reinforce the law of Moses.

And yes, of course its true that the story may be not as it is presented, but there are two debates. And the main one I think is "what is the opinion if these facts are true" and the second is "what is this situation here."

If you believe the school has acted acceptably in this report - then if it is not true it is a secondary issue - the main point is if you support the right for a school to practice this kind of discrimination.

I think age is definitely an issue in the way people see this. As I said, I posted the same link from Fark on a message board I go on that is a younger crowd... and everyone was united against the school. Here, where the group is more diverse, there are some people who support it. I think there are many issues in this that way that indicate a great divide, two America's.

How you want to characterise the divide is down to how you view society. I myself see it as a divide between those people who will make the revolution, and those who will resist it initially.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

flstf

Here is the school's response to the dismissal, from their website:
http://www.ocschools.org/index.cfm
Thank you for your inquiry regarding a student that had been enrolled at Ontario Christian School. The student is not attending Ontario Christian, as the family does not meet admissions criteria. The ministry of Ontario Christian is to promote discipleship of Jesus Christ as defined by the Bible and consistent with historical Christianity. The school forms a voluntary partnership with parents who seek the same discipleship. Therefore, the school requires that at least one parent be a confessing Christian and active in the local Christian church. In this case, the parent does not meet the criteria by participating in a homosexual relationship. We regret that this relationship was not disclosed at the time of admission, as that information would have prevented enrollment and the occasion for misunderstanding. The mission of Ontario Christian School is to provide for the children of Christian parents a Biblically-based, quality education that nurtures students to grow in knowledge, conviction and maturity; therefore, our focus is to equip students with the vision and skills to engage all relationships and culture under the authority of Jesus Christ.

aberkok

I guess you can retract that statement, aberkok...why don't you STFU!? The family was dishonest about their orientation.

Now that the plot has thickened I just want to say that I no longer disagree with the specific decision to remove the student, although it is not a kind decision. I still disagree with the overall policy and now we see how much they truly believe that what they are doing is "Christian."

__________________
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Marvelous Marv

Agreed. I propose a campaign to reverse the situations in which the Boy Scouts were not granted a lease for facilities because they're Christians.

I also propose that all non-Christians not be paid for the day if they don't work on Christmas.

/sarcasm

It seems that some people use Christian concepts and property when it's convenient for them.

What was this girl doing at the school? Were the public schools in the area of poor quality? Did her parents decide to accept just enough Christianity to work to their advantage?

I agree with ustwo--there's more to this story.

__________________
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher

Charlatan

Sorry, when did Christ ever, in the Gospels, advocate exclusionary practices? When did Christ ever say, "No Homosexuals please". Any study I've ever made of Christ's teachings in the NT show a man that was accepting of all sorts of people.

Again, while I can't dispute their legal right as a private school, I can dispute their interpretation of the "authority of Jesus Christ."

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Charlatan

I'd happily see all trappings of Christianity removed from our culture. Though I would argue that Christmas and Easter have been so thoroughly secularized you'd have a tough time removing them.

Like all non-Chistians I don't have a choice.


Are suggesting Homosexuals can't be Christians? That's what it sounds like. I agree there is likely more to the story.

My guess: some kids started making fun of her gay parents. She stood up to them. OR She was preaching the gospel of Homosexuality in the gym OR Her cheerleading cheer was, give me an L... give me an E... give me an S... give me a B... give me an I... give me an A... give me an N... What does that spell? My Two Moms! Yay!

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Jinn

It's very easy to dogpile a group that consistently demonstrates intolerance. I've never "hated" on a Christian that I knew could be tolerant of everyone else in society. That said, it's pretty obvious that I'd ordinarily use this as an ANOTHER example of Christian intolerance:

However -- I don't have a problem with this sort of policy. It's certainly bigoted, but we as a society allow this -- what kind of club would the Millionaire Club be if they let in people who weren't millionaires? What about MENSA, if they let in people who weren't smart enough? Exclusivity is part of making a group -- no one likes to have a dissenter in their midst.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Strange Famous

The best you can do would be this, I think:

Of course, if you believe that Yahweh of the OT is the same entity as Jesus in the NT, and that the whole bible is the voice of God, then Jesus would have said everything the OT did (which includes recomending rape, pillage, murder, child sacrifice, etc etc... things most modern Christian's would not find palatable)


Leviticus 18:22:
"You shall not lie with a male as those who lie with a female; it is an abomination."

Leviticus 20:13:
"If a man lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination and they shall surely be put to death."

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." (Matthew 5:17)

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Ustwo

I might be mistaken, but since when did being a Christian mean you accept all forms of 'sin'?

FORGIVENESS is a Christian montra, not tolerance of sin. If you are willingly committing a sin, it is NOT christian to accept it as OK. If you come seeking forgiveness, it is granted, but if you flaunt your sin then you are not ready for Christ.

The issue here has little to do with Christian intolerance of gays but more to do with some peoples intolerance of these Christians stance on homosexuality.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Charlatan

But Stange Famous... didn't Paul take the religion in a different direction. Didn't he teach that Christians don't have to hold to Jewish law?

I say again, Christians who would quote laws from the OT can't (or shouldn't) just pick and choose those laws that are most convenient to their world view. A true Christian should embrace Christ's teachings and if you read those words and actions he comes across as increasingly tolerant of many of those who are considered outcasts.

I wasn't being glib when I mentioned his admission of Levi the tax collector into his disciples. Tax collectors were high on the list of those to be despised under the existing Jewish customs of the time.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Charlatan

That sounds very Catholic but not neccessarily Christian. You first have to believe that an act of homosexuality is inherently sinful. 22 years sounds like a deeper commitment than most straigh marriages I know.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Strange Famous

Yes, Paul was far more inclusive. The battle for the soul of the early church was between Paul and Jesus' brother ,James the Just. Paul was a modernizer, who sought to extend the chruch to the gentiles, and James was a zealot, xenophobic, known for his strict observance of the law. The thing is of course, we dont really know whether Jesus himself was more like James or Paul - since Paul won, he MADE the biblical Jesus like him.

And I absolutely agree, and this is what I was saying all along.

Utswo, if you want to follow the Mosaic law, if you want to use it as a guide to life - then fine... but the law is the law. You cannot pick which laws you obey. If you take Leviticus as your guide that homosexuality being wrong, then how can you eat pork?

As for the biblical Jesus himself, he had very little to say about sexuality at all, other than he disapproved of divorce.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

vautrain

So, are you saying that students whose parents sin will be expelled from Christian schools? Of course you're not, because that's ridiculous.

Coincidentally, I don't seem to recall any case in which a student at a Christian school was expelled because a parent violated one of the ten commandments. It seems Christians are particularly choosy about which of God's laws they want to enforce. Which brings up other interesting questions about whether Christians should be engaged in enforcing violations of God's laws.

Maybe these "Christians" had better review the Bible. Might want to start with the NT.

Ustwo

If you take the Catholic Church as a 'baseline' Christianity, you will find some splinter groups more conservative (a.k.a. old testament) and others more liberal (ignore the old testament) in their views on homosexuality. Obviously THESE Christians, and I have no idea what sect they come from, are of the old testament variety, which I'm sure you recall is a death penalty for male homosexuals and the destruction of a town by gods own hand.

Paul also writes on homosexuality (New Testament)

So it seems that perhaps even if you ignore the old testament there is no love for homosexuality in Christianity.

Now perhaps if by Christian you only look at Christs own words, then yes perhaps, you would be correct, but very few Christians ignore everyone but Jesus.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Lasereth

This is a rather simple case. The school's policy says that parents can't be homosexual. The girl violated the rules and was removed from the school. Whether Christianity is correct in condemning homesexuals is another topic of discussion. She broke the rules and suffered the consequences. There's no getting around Christianity's blatant disapproval of homosexuality...why such a big argument?

-Lasereth

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"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

tecoyah

As stated in the opening post....they (the school) have the right to set the standards. The discussion was never intended to debate this, Rather I was hoping to get opinions on exactly what everyone is "arguing" about, the perception of bigotry found in the action of the school, and how it ties into religious belief.

I would say its moving quite well actually....heh.

__________________
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Lasereth

My view on homosexuality in general is that it's the human species' way of population control. The world is getting extremely crowded, so what better way to control it than a new type of humans that aren't interested in reproducing? I have nothing against homosexuals...I actually get quite angry when there is any hostility enacted against them. Our society needs to move beyond idiotic prejudices and accept people different than themselves. I don't see it happening since being gay is still considered an insult, even at my college university (there are quite a few people who are open to gay people here, but the fact that most people still say "that's gay" when referring to something they don't agree with sort of leads me to believe that they're still subconsciously homophobic).

-Lasereth

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

Rodney

Some comments:

Re: Narrow-minded Christianity in California: Once you head about 50 miles inland from the coast, California is pretty much a different state from the one you see on TV. Of course, probably 2/3 the state population lives in that 50-mile strip. Geographically, the vast majority of California is moderate-to-far-right conservative.

Re: What kind of Christians would do this? Answer: Christianity, like most religions, can be bent to the culture of the country here that hosts it. Here in America we have a lot of people who think their personal beliefs deserve holy affirmation and yet don't examine their lives too much, want a God who will help them but not desire too much of them, and, wrapped in self-righteous armour, can then feel free to blame everyone but themselves for their problems and the problems of the world.

Guess what kind of Christianity these people like?

jorgelito

What I find interesting is that the family hasn't put up any public protest and simply enrolled in a public school. It "seems" like they are "ok" with it as they haven't put up any stink over it. There must be more to the story...

JumpinJesus

This isn't necessarily directed at you, jorge, but in general to those who say there must be more to the story.

Not everyone who is gay or lesbian is an activist just chomping at the bit waiting for something like this to occur so they can spring into action and demand everyone embrace their identity. It's quite possible that they just don't want to push the issue and it's also possible that they think - rightly so I might add - that their daughter would not receive kind treatment if she were to stay. It doesn't mean that their daughter was a trouble-maker, having lesbian sex in front of everyone, cursing at teachers, or any other tom-foolery which may lead to expulsion.

It states quite plainly that through the course of events, the superintendent found out her parents were lesbians and kicked her out. The course of events, if I understand them correctly, was that she was a cheerleader and got in trouble for talking to someone in the crowd during a football game. Her mother came in for a conference and it was then discovered that she was a lesbian.

I find it very difficult to defend a position that has for centuries engaged in exclusionary practices. I don't feel sorry for Christians who feel their feelings have been hurt because they live as bigots and don't like being called on it. Intolerance of intolerance is not ironic, it's not hypocritical, and it's not exclusive to any one particular ideology. Intolerance of intolerance is what helped bring about many of the great social changes in our history.

My comment to those who are riled up over what they perceive as Christian-bashing from those of us who don't appreciate bigoted Christians trying to shove their lifestyles down our throats (play on words intentional): Try practicing the teachings of your leader for a change. Christians and the white man are not victims of intolerance here. Stop trying to change the subject by pretending that you're now the persecuted ones.

__________________
"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

bad jane

considering i hear homosexuals use that phrase in the same way on a regular basis, gonna disagree with that comment. definitions of words change with time. gay and queer didn't have anything to do with homosexuality not so long ago. that the word gay is now moving away from primarily meaning homosexual (or its original definition) towards something different is hardly shocking or indicative of homophobia.

Charlatan

While I agree means do shift, I am not sure this the case in this instance.

"That's so gay" is not all that harmless when you drill down. If the utterance was an ironic play on the definition of "happy" I wouldn't have problem. The fact is, "gay" in this case, is a negative implication attached to someone being homosexual.

"You are so gay" is only used this way because it suggests that being gay or homosexual is somehow wrong or abhorent.

That meaning is still present. It is not dissimilar to a white guy saying to a black guy, "Yo nigger, what's up?" Don't be surprised if the black guy gets a little upset about your usage.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

MojoRisin

You are right about this but, what sort of changes in basic thought occur when words change meanings like this? 'Gay' originally meaning "lighthearted, merry, cheerful" comes to describe homosexuals, how? Men and women both may say the worst emotional pain they've felt comes at the hands of the opposite sex, perhaps viewing homosexuality as an escape from this, an elimination of the tension between the sexes, a resistance to suffering would result in a merry lighthearted existence. From what I've seen this is not the case for homosexual couples. Reguardless some may see things this way, seeing homosexuality as weakness itself because, as I've read, "life is pain, pain is knowledge, knowledge is life". The word having first only signified something a person views as weak and therefore disagreeable, comes to be a name for all things disagreeable, as it is our nature to generalize and simplify. Not all people who say 'thats gay' are homophobic, but the ignorance that would have to be among a majority to create such a change still exists.

*this is slightly off topic but I think still worth sharing

__________________
Dropping a barbell he points to the sky and says "The suns not yellow, It's chicken!"

Gilda

I get up at about 5:30 each morning, have some tea, fix and have breakfast with my wife. I get dressed, usually in a nice suit (my workplace doesn't require professional dress, but it implicitly expected), and commute to work. I teach middle school for six hours, grade papers or go to meetings for another hour and a half. I commute home, stopping at the gym to exercise some nights, or jog around the track at home, relax with afternoon tea and prepare supper. I have supper with my family, the time varying depending upon when my spouse gets off of work. In the evening then relax, reading, watching tv, going to a movie, playing cards with my family. Once a week I meet with a few others like me and we discuss issues that are important to us. My family goes to an amusement part once or twice a month, and makes a trek across country most summers to visit the great Eastern parks. I make love to a beautiful woman about three times a week, more some weeks, less others. We don't have children, but plan to start trying in about a year's time. We tend to eat lean, lots of steamed rice and vegetables, a little lean meat, pasta, and fresh sliced fruits and veggies. We indulge in pizza or fried chicken once a week. I collect and read comic books, and run a small business related to that.

If you made it through all that without falling asleep, here's the point. That's my lifestyle. Though the particulars may change a bit, where you live, what kind of recreation you enjoy, that's not much different from a huge swath of Americans from all walks of life in monogamous relationships.

That is a homosexual lifestyle. I say "A" homosexual lifestyle pointedly here, and not "the" homosexual lifestyle, because there is no one lifestyle, no one way of living ones life, no one way of making choices about how to live one's life that defines the "homosexual lifestyle," any more than there is one "heterosexual lifestyle".

If you wanted to say I live a "nerd lifestyle," that'd be more meaningful than saying I live a "homosexual lifestyle".

The school, so long as they aren't recieving government funding of any kind in any measure, has the right to set their rules however they like and enforce them as they see fit.

Still, I think it's sad that an irrational predjudice leads them to punish a girl for her parents' status.

By the way, I'm not sure if anyone pointed out the obvious reason they'd send their daughter to a Christian school. Maybe they're Christians, and wanted a Christian education for their daughter, or their daughter is herself a practicing Christian, or both. Being homosexual and being Christian are not mutually exclusive conditions.

Gilda

__________________
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~Steven Colbert

Marvelous Marv

No, it's more comparable to a Mormon that smokes and/or drinks. The individual engages in behavior contrary to church teachings, but (outside of some Muslim sects) violating some of the teachings is not normally grounds for some sort of "ban," or excommunication, or whatever.

As ustwo pointed out, homosexuality is not well-regarded in the Bible. That's not to say that homosexuals can't be likeable, contributing members of society, or live a life more moral than many who call themselves Christians. But Christian? In a denomination that emphasizes this portion of the Bible (and ALL Christian denominations emphasize their favorite portions to some degree) it's like saying a married man can be a Catholic priest. This married man could be a great deal more "holy" than some of the priests I read about, but that wouldn't make him a priest.

BTW, my statement about accepting "just enough Christianity" also applies to the other side of the coin--like most evangelists I can think of, for example. Or Teddy Kennedy, a "Catholic" who had a 30-year marriage "annulled." Wonder if his kids are retroactively illegitimate?

__________________
"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money."
Margaret Thatcher

tspikes51

I don't agree with this guy often, but I'll give him a trophy for this one. The school's ideology and moral code may not match mine, but it's their right to have and enforce it. She'd probably be much better off at a different school anyway.

__________________
"I'm telling you, we need to get rid of a few people or a million."
-Maddox

JumpinJesus

I'm still trying to understand when being a Christian meant being exclusionary. Current trends in our society have found it convenient to associate being a Christian with being a member of a particular denomination. I've always been of the understanding that being a Christian entailed following the teachings of Christ, not belonging to a church.

Claiming to be a Christian and actually practicing the teachings of Christ are two entirely different things. What boggles my mind is the vehemence with which we defend self-proclaimed Christians simply because they claim to be Christians while denouncing people who actually follow his teachings but don't wear their religion on their sleeves.

There are plenty of passages in the bible in which adultery is condoned by God yet we view it as immoral. In fact, if I understand correctly, there are more passages in which adultery is commited with the blessing of God than there are condemnations against homosexuality. Is this not a contradiction in our way of thinking?

__________________
"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

JumpinJesus

Many private schools receive federal funding under the No Child Left Behind Act. If this particular school is receiving funds, then it is not their right to practice discrimination. If however, their funding is strictly through private means, then they are free to do as they choose. Hell, they can even teach that the sun revolves around the earth if they choose. Having the right to do something doesn't make what they do right.

Believe it or not, I will never support anyone's right to discriminate. I don't care if it's constitutionally guaranteed or not. Constitutional guarantees prevents me from stopping them, but I sure as hell don't have to support them. I will agree that they can do it, but I will never agree that it's okay.

__________________
"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

docbungle

Being gay and being christian do not go together. It's an oxymoron. That's the cold hard truth of the matter. Hurt feelings and societal pressures aside, I think the school is within their rights.

__________________
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vautrain

There are plenty of gay Christians. If you are a praciticing Christian, there are probably some that belong to your church. Being gay and being Christian isn't an oxymoron. Being intolerant and being Christian is an oxymoron.

docbungle

I'm not intolerant at all. But a self-proclaimed christian who violates the guidelines of their own faith just equals a confused individual in my book.

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Bad Luck City

Gilda

Look at those in context, including verses 21-23, and it's clear they don't condemn homosexuality. These people were lapsed Christians who had made and animalistic idols. They engaged in sexual fertility rites--orgies--and idol worship, and for this were punished by God by making them go against their heterosexual desires and engage in sexual practices that they, being heterosexual, would find repulsive.

They weren't punished for being homosexual, they weren't, and they weren't punished for homosexual acts. The homosexual acts were the punishment, not the sin being punished.

I imagine that if these people had been homosexuals, forcing them into sex with the same sex would have been a remarkably ineffective form of retribution.

What about the "natural" part of it? These were heterosexuals forced to engage in homosexual acts, behavior that was against their nature. Homosexual acts wouldn't be unnatural for homosexuals.

These passages condemn sex orgies and idol worship in Pagan temples.

I've engage in a fair amount of homosexual sex in my time, but never as part of an idol-worshiping sex orgy in a pagan temple, so I'm pretty confident Romans 1:26-27 doesn't apply to me.

By the way, were the girl's mothers having idol-worshiping sex orgies in pagan temples?

Gilda

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I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

Gilda

Nonsense. Not all Christains agree on all tenets of the the Christian faith. Not all Christians agree with all of the tenets of their own particular branch of the Christian faith. Some of us believe that homosexuality is not in conflict with the Bible. That's a difference of interpretation and opinion, not a factual difference. No one interpretatiion is "the cold hard truth of the matter".

Gilda

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I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert