Sex Offender Map - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

maleficent · 08-08-2005, 08:06 AM

How can you be absolutely sure that these sites are accurate? If you think they are then let me tell you about my friend in Nigeria... I will guarentee there are errors... You are going to ruin someone's life because of an error? What if it were you that were listed as a sex offender?

canuckguy · 08-08-2005, 09:32 AM

how can you guarantee there NOT accurate? I never said they were. I would not care if i was listed because first I've never been arrested. I don't understand this is about people who have been convicted of committing a crime, are you just trying to flame me? Are you saying that some people are listed on that site in error? who, we should report these errors. If that is the case then why don't you move to a state that is not included in these types of sites to protect yourself?
I understand the point that the site can include some errors that could have harsh effects on someones life. If were going to stop everything then that could harm someone should be not "close" the internet to stop people from posting naked pictures of people who don't want there pictures posted? or was it the persons who allowed there naked self to be photographed who is to blame? should we stop the production of cars as someone might get drunk and drive one? Maybe i just don't understand what your post is trying to accomplish.

maleficent · 08-08-2005, 09:42 AM

I already live in a state, for the time being, that is not included in this particular site. Why would I bother trying to flame you? I'm simply stating a concern that if these sites are not accurate, then there is no point in having them .. because they can do harm to people who do not deserve harm to be done to them. You are harming them needlessly. Accuracy is important.

If it's so important to list rapists and sex offenders, why aren't people on their high horses about listing murderers and drunk drivers, they should both be of a concern...

canuckguy · 08-08-2005, 09:46 AM

I agree that murderers and drunk drivers should be listed as well, but this thread was about sex offenders, and i agree the sites have the potential for harm if there not accurate.

high horse? thanks

Xero · 08-08-2005, 09:49 AM

An interesting companion to this map is the recent development of the first "sex-offender free" community in Lubbock, Texas. Basically its like a closed gate housing development that background checks all of its residents and bars sex offenders... Im not sure if its been succesfull but it makes me worried that it might spread further, to the point where the offenders may be treated as lepers. A little exaggeration, yes, but with this one community the seeds have been sown...

http://www.tampabaylive.com/stories/...ffenders.shtml

NoSoup · 08-08-2005, 09:53 AM

I'm not a parent, but I think I am going to go against the grain here.

I don't really think that these types of sites are really going to increase vigilantism. How many of you folks saw people that you knew or are in your neighborhood. Anyone of you go out and beat them up? I understand the argument, but most convictions are of public record anyway. I'd imagine that if you are determined enough to go out and rid the world of sexual predators, you'd be willing to do a bit of research about it instead of just waiting for an easy-to-use website to pop up.

I suppose I understand the argument that there isn't much you can do differently even knowing the information, but here is an example.

If I had a younger son (say 9-10 years old) and This Guy lived next door and offered to babysit my child, I would know to avoid putting my child in danger. Granted, simply because you had done something in the past doesn't necessarily mean that you'll do it again, but I would feel a helluva lot more comfortable knowing that my babysitter has NEVER been convicted of a sexual offence with a minor than someone who had, but served their jail time or whatever.

Of course there are exceptions to every rule, and unfortunately there are people out there who -at least in my mind- don't "deserve" to be labeled as such (like a 17 year old with a 16 year old) but the fact of the matter is - they broke the law. I'm not trying to insinuate that the law is just or acceptable, but if people think it is unfair - get the law changed. I don't think that allowing people that were convicted of sex crimes (especially with children) should be allowed to live wherever they please without parents at least having the option of finding out about it...

maleficent · 08-08-2005, 10:02 AM

The biggest problem I have with these lists is the publication of them on the internet. If I live in NJ, unless I am planning on moving there, why do I need to know that there are 212 sex offenders in East Bumfuck, Nebraska? If I was planning on moving to that area, I would check it out, I would go to the police department and find out stats.

This is information that, at best, belongs in the neighborhood only, let the police notify the neighborhood who is a sex offfender/murderer/burglar/drug dealer/whatever... What good comes from putting it on the internet for worldwide consumption.

Xero · 08-08-2005, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

The biggest problem I have with these lists is the publication of them on the internet. If I live in NJ, unless I am planning on moving there, why do I need to know that there are 212 sex offenders in East Bumfuck, Nebraska? If I was planning on moving to that area, I would check it out, I would go to the police department and find out stats.

This is information that, at best, belongs in the neighborhood only, let the police notify the neighborhood who is a sex offfender/murderer/burglar/drug dealer/whatever... What good comes from putting it on the internet for worldwide consumption.

I think the key here is providing the information so that the public can make an informed decision. The internet is simply an easier way to do this. While these sites dont encourage vigilantism, they simply provide the information for people to make an informed decision about their community. What about dating sites that promote "love birds not jail birds"? Should that information only be available at the police station?

Glory's Sun · 08-08-2005, 10:24 AM

I found this interesting:

Quote:

Actually, the recidivism rates are, according the the following reports:

# NCJ-163392 (February 7, 1997), Sex Offenses and Offenders: An Analysis of Data on Rape and Sexual Assault, finds the recidivism rate of 2,214 convicted rapists released from prison was 7.7% after three years. The only category of crimes with a lower recidivism rate are those persons convicted of murder (6.8%).

# NCJ-193427 (June, 2002), Recidivism of Prisoners Released in 1994, finds the recidivism rate of 3,138 convicted rapists released from prison was 2.5% after three years. The only category of crimes with a lower recidivism rate are those persons convicted of murder (1.2%).

In April, 2001, the Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Correction (ODRC) released a report also on the recidivism rate of released sex offenders. In Ten-Year Recidivism Follow-Up of 1989 Sex Offender Releases, Office of Policy, Bureau of Planning and Evaluation, Paul Konicek, Principle Researcher, (available at www.drc.state.oh.us), the recidivism rate of 879 sex offenders released from Ohio’s prisons in 1989, after ten (10) years, was found to be 8% for new sex offenses.

The ODRC study finds its results as typical, citing to:

1) Gibbons, Soothill, and Way, found in Furby, Weinrott & Blackshaw, 1989. (Twelve year study finding sex offender recidivism rate of 4%).

2) Gibbons, Soothill, and Way 1980, found in Furby, Weinrott & Blackshaw, 1989. (Thirteen year study finding sex offenders recidivism rate of 12%).

3) Hanson & Bussiere, 1996. (Mega-analysis of sixty-one sex offender studies with a total of 28,972 sex offenders finding recidivism rate for new sex offenses five years after release was 13.4%).

4) New York Department of Corrections, nine year follow-up study. Finding a 6% rate of recidivism for new sex offenses.

These studies are cited on page 11 of the ODRC report.

Page 15 of the report, the overall findings are summarized. The ODRC finds, "Contrary to the popular idea that sex offenders are repeatedly returning to prison for further sex crimes, in this population a sex offender recidivating for a new sex offense within 10 years of release was a relatively rare occurrence." Id. at page 15, ¶ 4.

taken from http://www.prisonerlife.com/articles/articleID=42.cfm

also found a place that has way more info than I care to read... http://www.sohopeful.org/forum/index.php?f=151

ok..now to fend off any future attacks. YES I understand that even 1% is a bad thing..however I am merely posting this to show that the media buzz and witchunts are a little off. For every stupid pyscho sex offender that did something disgusting, they should talk about the hundreds of thousands who have "conformed" and are living normal healthy lives.

I'm still looking for the stats that breakdown the recividism rates by nature of the crimes.. I've seen them before. Damn memory loss

Astrocloud · 08-08-2005, 10:50 AM

I sat in court one day when I was 18 -for a drug related offense. Before my case -there were a number of "indecent exposure" cases before me pleading for leniancy. The typical case went like this:

'I was getting ready to take a shower when I remembered that I left my wallet in my car. So I threw on my bathrobe and went out and got it from my car. I guess my neighbor (whom I haven't been getting along with) saw me and called the police. They came to my door and gave me a ticket.'

My point is that these are what people are being arrested for as sex-crimes. If the recidivism rate is low -it's because most people are arrested for trumped up charges. -If they arrest the right person at all.

tooth · 08-08-2005, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xazy

A perfect example of how wrong it can be. There was a 17 year old arrested, and found guilty of having sex with a minor. The minor was his girlfriend, who was 16, who he married 2 years later. Now 10 years later, they are still married but when he moves he has to walk around and tell his neighbors he is a sex offender, and here is my wife who i violated.

By the way, in this instance it was the D.A. who went after him, her parents and his parents had no problems with his relationship. And they testified to that!

Jesus Christ! That is so wrong, I don't even know where to begin.

Glava · 08-08-2005, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guccilvr

I found this interesting:

You're missing the important point - that there is a statistician with the name Furby.

Ustwo · 08-08-2005, 11:34 AM

It may well be hard to put ones life back together if you are on one of these sites.

I guess perhaps raping that child wasn't such a good idea after all.

Caring = null

Glava · 08-08-2005, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

I guess perhaps raping that child wasn't such a good idea after all.

Are you talking about a specific case or your general perception of people who have to register as sex offenders?

maleficent · 08-08-2005, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ustwo

It may well be hard to put ones life back together if you are on one of these sites.

I guess perhaps raping that child wasn't such a good idea after all.

This is kind of the point that I'm trying to make... Not everyone that is on the sexual offenders list raped a child.... My favorite 18 year old with the 16 year old girlfriend is on the list as well... there are other people on the list, like Glava's example that don't belong on that list.

The term sexual offender is too all emcompassing, people are probably going to think that it's child rapist -when in fact it might not be .. but unless the average citizen (and the average citizen is not going to take the extra click or three) is given proper information, more harm than good can come from this.

Elphaba · 08-08-2005, 02:32 PM

Mal, would sites such as these serve a better purpose if only "significant" crimes with the potential to reoffend be listed? I agree that young lovers do not belong on lists such as these, but they can serve a community service if they are carefully vetted for the potential for repeat offenders.

Lak · 08-08-2005, 02:55 PM

So what if these site were restricted to "real" sex crimes, offenses which live up to the public's view of the term "sex offender"? Are they still invasive, unfair etc?

Ustwo · 08-08-2005, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

This is kind of the point that I'm trying to make... Not everyone that is on the sexual offenders list raped a child.... My favorite 18 year old with the 16 year old girlfriend is on the list as well... there are other people on the list, like Glava's example that don't belong on that list.

The term sexual offender is too all emcompassing, people are probably going to think that it's child rapist -when in fact it might not be .. but unless the average citizen (and the average citizen is not going to take the extra click or three) is given proper information, more harm than good can come from this.

I personally looked at the charges in my area, its not that hard to do for Illinois so again I fail to see a major problem. Yes perhaps it sucks for the 18 year old caught banging his 15 year old GF or whatever, but then get that aspect of the law changed. While my local area is sex-offender free I found some pretty bad dudes not far out of walking range just south of me.

Blonddie · 08-08-2005, 07:57 PM

Someone made the point that these people have served their time and deserve their privacy-- that's not necessarily true. Many are not incarcerated long at all (NoSoups 'This Guy' was sentanced to only 4-6 years for multiple sodomy of a 10 and a 11 yr old boy). That punishment does not fit the crime! Many people serve only portions of their sentances and are released. They are not rehabilitated, but are now living amoungst us, that is why this info is available to us. I am not sure where your info is coming from, but I have studied Criminology and I assure you sex offenders have high rates of recidivism, (no not the 18 yr/ who has a 17 yr old g/f), but the rapists, molesters, sodomizers, etc do.
As for this causing vigilantism, to be politically correct- no. My personal opinion-- I won't loose any sleep if someone were to go around and kill every rapist, child molester, etc that they find. But that's just me.

Glory's Sun · 08-09-2005, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blonddie

Many people serve only portions of their sentances and are released. They are not rehabilitated, but are now living amoungst us, that is why this info is available to us.

I'm just curious if this is a broad general statement or if it is dealing with specific cases. I understand that some people are not rehabilitated. Yes I support a database that shows people who are likely to reoffend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blonddie

I am not sure where your info is coming from, but I have studied Criminology and I assure you sex offenders have high rates of recidivism, (no not the 18 yr/ who has a 17 yr old g/f), but the rapists, molesters, sodomizers, etc do.

(Don't take this personally) There is too much data that supports the other argument. Sex offenders simply don't reoffend as much as people commonly believe. Some studies do show that rapists have a higher recidivism rate of all the groups with the incest group having the lowest. Of course I know that numbers can be fudged and that you can use stats to prove any argument, however the amount that is out there for the other argument is mind boggling.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blonddie

As for this causing vigilantism, to be politically correct- no. My personal opinion-- I won't loose any sleep if someone were to go around and kill every rapist, child molester, etc that they find. But that's just me.

Before I could even begin to agree with such a statement we would have to define what a child molester, etc is. I have no sympathy for rapists or pedophiles, however, in the case of the 18 year old guy with a 15 year old g/f, under the law she is still a child. Is he considered a child molester?

I feel strongly that there are better ways to deal with these types of people than just branding them with the scarlet letter. Rehabilitation could be reformed as well as imposing longer sentences with certain types of crime. Putting their faces on a database lumped together with people who will never do anything again or who were railroaded by the system just isn't the answer. Making them use pink license plates so the next drunk driver who's in a rage can say "Git er done!" and swipe them off the road isn't the answer.

This brings me to another point. (It's a tad off topic but still in the same general scheme of things) How can we expect recidivism rates to go down when the programs for offenders [all kinds not just sexual] aren't there? Think about it, you have someone who made a mistake, now they get out of jail or put on probation and they can't find a job, they can't make a living for themselves, they can't vote [the very core of our freedom in one sense]. It's no wonder that recidivism rates are high. We say here ya go, here's your record, have a nice life and good luck. That just doesn't cut it. If the government were really concerned about reducing crime, they would put some programs in place to help these people maintain jobs and such.

*Yes I know some states do have these types of programs, but I feel they are under-budgeted and often times employed by people who just don't care*

consider this my $.50

Xazy · 08-09-2005, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lak

So what if these site were restricted to "real" sex crimes, offenses which live up to the public's view of the term "sex offender"? Are they still invasive, unfair etc?

How can you guarantee that? The law obviously does not discrimate between the 17 & 16 year boy/girlfriend old having sex (in some states).

And then you look at the map, see these people and they are innocent people not molestors. While others are, but we put them all together.

I do agree that these people almost are never cured, it is a dis-order (my wife is a psychologist and deals with this at times, more with the abused child).

And how much will the map really help, this is information local law enforcement needs.

Blonddie · 08-09-2005, 07:44 PM

I would conceed that you can get statistics to support any view point you want. I am basing mine on those I learned in college.
As for defining a child molestor, that should be redefined. I think 13-14 and under would be a good age. Kids grow so fast (it seems), that many are giving consent, and know exactly what they are getting into sexually, at around this age.

When I posted and reread this-- LOL my whole "ZAZU" thing does not fit with this discussion! So please do not think it does...lol

Daknjak · 08-09-2005, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

Why is a sex offender worse than a drunk driver, or a burgler, or an embezzler, or any other crime, why do they get singled out?

The example of the 18 yr old guy and the 15 yr old girl and the angry father is no different than you or I having too much to drink one night, and doing something stupid like driving. You may have only done it once, you may not. Next time might be the time you kill someone. Does that make you an evil person? Did you calculate and plan on killing someone or even just hurting someone? Probably not. Now take a sex offender. Not the kid and his girlfriend, but the rapist, or the child molester. The guy who stalks women or little children. I sure as hell want to know where he is living, and if he was near my children, or near where they walk or play. He is worse than a drunk driver or a burgler. He is cold and calculating, and in his warped brain, he is much more likely in my mind to do it again. He NEEDS to do it again. It is exciting for him.

A child should never have to suffer in any way. A woman should not be forced into sex and made to suffer. That is why I think knowing where these people are helps.

08-08-2005, 08:06 AM	#41 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	How can you be absolutely sure that these sites are accurate? If you think they are then let me tell you about my friend in Nigeria... I will guarentee there are errors... You are going to ruin someone's life because of an error? What if it were you that were listed as a sex offender? __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

08-08-2005, 09:42 AM	#43 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	I already live in a state, for the time being, that is not included in this particular site. Why would I bother trying to flame you? I'm simply stating a concern that if these sites are not accurate, then there is no point in having them .. because they can do harm to people who do not deserve harm to be done to them. You are harming them needlessly. Accuracy is important. If it's so important to list rapists and sex offenders, why aren't people on their high horses about listing murderers and drunk drivers, they should both be of a concern... __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

08-08-2005, 09:53 AM	#46 (permalink)
NoSoup Non-Rookie Location: Green Bay, WI	I'm not a parent, but I think I am going to go against the grain here. I don't really think that these types of sites are really going to increase vigilantism. How many of you folks saw people that you knew or are in your neighborhood. Anyone of you go out and beat them up? I understand the argument, but most convictions are of public record anyway. I'd imagine that if you are determined enough to go out and rid the world of sexual predators, you'd be willing to do a bit of research about it instead of just waiting for an easy-to-use website to pop up. I suppose I understand the argument that there isn't much you can do differently even knowing the information, but here is an example. If I had a younger son (say 9-10 years old) and This Guy lived next door and offered to babysit my child, I would know to avoid putting my child in danger. Granted, simply because you had done something in the past doesn't necessarily mean that you'll do it again, but I would feel a helluva lot more comfortable knowing that my babysitter has NEVER been convicted of a sexual offence with a minor than someone who had, but served their jail time or whatever. Of course there are exceptions to every rule, and unfortunately there are people out there who -at least in my mind- don't "deserve" to be labeled as such (like a 17 year old with a 16 year old) but the fact of the matter is - they broke the law. I'm not trying to insinuate that the law is just or acceptable, but if people think it is unfair - get the law changed. I don't think that allowing people that were convicted of sex crimes (especially with children) should be allowed to live wherever they please without parents at least having the option of finding out about it... __________________ I have an aura of reliability and good judgement. Just in case you were wondering...

08-08-2005, 10:02 AM	#47 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	The biggest problem I have with these lists is the publication of them on the internet. If I live in NJ, unless I am planning on moving there, why do I need to know that there are 212 sex offenders in East Bumfuck, Nebraska? If I was planning on moving to that area, I would check it out, I would go to the police department and find out stats. This is information that, at best, belongs in the neighborhood only, let the police notify the neighborhood who is a sex offfender/murderer/burglar/drug dealer/whatever... What good comes from putting it on the internet for worldwide consumption. __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

08-08-2005, 11:34 AM	#53 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	It may well be hard to put ones life back together if you are on one of these sites. I guess perhaps raping that child wasn't such a good idea after all. Caring = null __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

08-08-2005, 09:32 AM	#42 (permalink)
canuckguy I read your emails. Location: earth	how can you guarantee there NOT accurate? I never said they were. I would not care if i was listed because first I've never been arrested. I don't understand this is about people who have been convicted of committing a crime, are you just trying to flame me? Are you saying that some people are listed on that site in error? who, we should report these errors. If that is the case then why don't you move to a state that is not included in these types of sites to protect yourself? I understand the point that the site can include some errors that could have harsh effects on someones life. If were going to stop everything then that could harm someone should be not "close" the internet to stop people from posting naked pictures of people who don't want there pictures posted? or was it the persons who allowed there naked self to be photographed who is to blame? should we stop the production of cars as someone might get drunk and drive one? Maybe i just don't understand what your post is trying to accomplish.

08-08-2005, 09:46 AM	#44 (permalink)
canuckguy I read your emails. Location: earth	I agree that murderers and drunk drivers should be listed as well, but this thread was about sex offenders, and i agree the sites have the potential for harm if there not accurate. high horse? thanks

08-08-2005, 09:49 AM	#45 (permalink)
Xero Upright	An interesting companion to this map is the recent development of the first "sex-offender free" community in Lubbock, Texas. Basically its like a closed gate housing development that background checks all of its residents and bars sex offenders... Im not sure if its been succesfull but it makes me worried that it might spread further, to the point where the offenders may be treated as lepers. A little exaggeration, yes, but with this one community the seeds have been sown... http://www.tampabaylive.com/stories/...ffenders.shtml

08-08-2005, 10:50 AM	#50 (permalink)
Astrocloud Apocalypse Nerd	I sat in court one day when I was 18 -for a drug related offense. Before my case -there were a number of "indecent exposure" cases before me pleading for leniancy. The typical case went like this: 'I was getting ready to take a shower when I remembered that I left my wallet in my car. So I threw on my bathrobe and went out and got it from my car. I guess my neighbor (whom I haven't been getting along with) saw me and called the police. They came to my door and gave me a ticket.' My point is that these are what people are being arrested for as sex-crimes. If the recidivism rate is low -it's because most people are arrested for trumped up charges. -If they arrest the right person at all.

08-08-2005, 02:32 PM	#56 (permalink)
Elphaba Deja Moo Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA	Mal, would sites such as these serve a better purpose if only "significant" crimes with the potential to reoffend be listed? I agree that young lovers do not belong on lists such as these, but they can serve a community service if they are carefully vetted for the potential for repeat offenders. __________________ "You can't ignore politics, no matter how much you'd like to." Molly Ivins - 1944-2007

08-08-2005, 02:55 PM	#57 (permalink)
Lak Insane Location: New Zealand	So what if these site were restricted to "real" sex crimes, offenses which live up to the public's view of the term "sex offender"? Are they still invasive, unfair etc? __________________ ignorance really is bliss.

08-08-2005, 07:57 PM	#59 (permalink)
Blonddie Crazy Location: Southern California	Someone made the point that these people have served their time and deserve their privacy-- that's not necessarily true. Many are not incarcerated long at all (NoSoups 'This Guy' was sentanced to only 4-6 years for multiple sodomy of a 10 and a 11 yr old boy). That punishment does not fit the crime! Many people serve only portions of their sentances and are released. They are not rehabilitated, but are now living amoungst us, that is why this info is available to us. I am not sure where your info is coming from, but I have studied Criminology and I assure you sex offenders have high rates of recidivism, (no not the 18 yr/ who has a 17 yr old g/f), but the rapists, molesters, sodomizers, etc do. As for this causing vigilantism, to be politically correct- no. My personal opinion-- I won't loose any sleep if someone were to go around and kill every rapist, child molester, etc that they find. But that's just me. __________________ "There's one in every family...two in mine actually.."--- Zazu

08-09-2005, 07:44 PM	#62 (permalink)
Blonddie Crazy Location: Southern California	I would conceed that you can get statistics to support any view point you want. I am basing mine on those I learned in college. As for defining a child molestor, that should be redefined. I think 13-14 and under would be a good age. Kids grow so fast (it seems), that many are giving consent, and know exactly what they are getting into sexually, at around this age. When I posted and reread this-- LOL my whole "ZAZU" thing does not fit with this discussion! So please do not think it does...lol __________________ "There's one in every family...two in mine actually.."--- Zazu