slant eyes

so i have this female best friend and we were close as hell. to the point where people, even family members, thought we were seeing each other.

i have caught her lying to me before but she got slapped for it and asked for a clean slate and, i think out of sympathy at the time, i obliged and we went about our conjoined merry ways for some time.

i haven't been able to fully trust her and and blatant about asking her stuff that seems weird to me. her explanations, though sometimes shady, usually suffice with me as i am not able to prove anything.

yesterday, she claimed to have made a drive home 38+ miles away, coming home across 5 different stretches of very busy freeway (all with carpool lanes), in under 46 minutes.

her refusal to talk to me, as she normally does, on the drive home was the first red flag.

i pressed and pressed. i checked her car for warmth on the hood. i asked her if someone drove her home or if she drove herself. i found myself having to fight her use of technicality to find the truth.

i ended up telling her, 'i hope you're not lying, and if you are, i hope you fess up soon'

her answer....'i'm sorry it sounds weird to you, but that's how it happened'

i wasn't satisfied and kept pressing with different pieces of oddities that transpired. then i guess she finally caved. she had to send me a text message instead of telling me on the phone.

she told me she had an old friend drive her since she was ill and that she couldn't say at the time because it would give away birthday plans for me. i don't see how a person driving would give it away, but anyways. she tells me that she couldn't talk to me because she was making calls to arrange for my birthday.

ok. so 2 scenarios here.

1) she's telling the truth about the birthday. but did she have to lie about the driving? nonetheless, she lied to me plainly and in my face.

2) she's not telling the truth at all about planning my birthday. how can i trust her? she lied after all.

so not sure if i'm just venting, but what do you all think i should do? give her another chance? what are you feelings about this?

oh yeah, she knows i do not tolerate dis-honesty one bit. but i made an exception once.

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cj2112

trust is the foundation of every close personal relationship I form. If I can't trust them, I can't be close to them. Do what you will, as I can only tell you what I would do. I would seriously re-evaluate how close you guys really are if you can't take her at her word.

Xazy

Got to agree, friendship is all based on trust.. Once you cut a rope you can retie the ends together but it is never as strong.

raeanna74

How long is it until your B-day. You're right to not believe that she couldn't call because she was making B-day plans. UNLESS you're B-day is tomarrow the urgent need to make plans isn't so great that you can't respond to your best friend on your cell.

I hope this doesn't sound crazy but it went through my head and I gotta mention it because I don't know all the possibilities with this situation. - Does she realize that your friendship is just that and NOTHING more or did she once have more feelings for you that you aren't aware of? Could she be having a relationship with a guy that's on the dating side of things and is uncomfortable with you knowing?? I'm just tossing the possibility out there.

I'd wait until your B-day passed. Unless she's planned something HUGE then her excuse falls apart and you can confront her once again with it. Or you can ignore it and let the friendship slip away. Either way I would find anything else she says or does suspect.

It's sad when someone isn't trustworthy for any reason.

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Lasereth

You said you weren't seeing each other so what she does is her business. Who cares if she lies to you, it's none of your business where she's been. Maybe she wants some privacy. Why did you slap your friend for lying? That's a bit offensive. Lying isn't very nice to a close friend, but neither is trying to extract every little detail about their lives and especially slapping them. The way you wrote the post made you sound like a stalker. I hate to be harsh, but I don't fully understand what's going on here.

-Lasereth

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doodlebird

she shouldn't be talking while she's driving anyway.

and from this,
it sure sounds like you treat her like you're dating.

give it a few days...
'til after your birthday
and see how it plays out.

worst case:
perhaps she's just a liar.

best case:
you get a really cool bday surprise.
don't fuck it up before then.

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doodle

slant eyes

lasereth: i hope the slapping you refer to is more figurative than literal because i don't believe i made any hint at all that i slapped her. her ex, a close friend of hers, found out why she was lying and slapped her. i don't slap females especially.

to address your concerns, and i do appreciate you taking your time to respond, it's a 2-way thing. like i said, we were so close that the line between dating and friendship was often blurred. everywhere we went, phones were glued to our heads. we've fallen asleep on the phone with each other. when she's at work, we talk on the phone during down time (she's a cell phone sales rep). if not there, we're on aim. so tho it may seem stalker-esque, i assure you talking to her in that way was totally in the norm of our everyday lives.

the fact that she lied to me was in her claims that she cared soooo much about me and that she wouldn't ever lie to me. i'm not sure how you value your friendships, and this is no way an attack on you, but i would never even lie to a regular acquaintance, let alone the person i claim to be my best friend.

our quirky friendship normally has been one where my business was hers and hers was mine. don't ask me why, it just is, that's why i said it was quirky. but it was great.

to further address the questions of others here. she had feelings for me before, but because i wasn't fully over my ex at the time, i opted not to pursue it for fear that i may be using her, subconsciously, as a rebound. i cared for her too much to hurt her. she isn't ugly, as a matter of fact, she's damn hot. she's dated guys while we were friends so her dating someone else shouldn't be an issue as i am not pursuing her and she's not obliging.

my b-day is at least 2 weeks away, so the sense of urgency can be ruled out. and in the past, plans for surprises were usually thwarted from questions by merely saying, 'don't ask'. which in this situation, would have been far better than flat out lying to me, imo.

i don't want to play chummy with her until past my b-day to see what kind of spectacle i get because that would be just using her. i'm not about to do that. that's not me and i'm not trying to make myself sound all righteous, but i don't see that as something i would allow myself to do.

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Kalnaur

It sounds to me, personally, like you just press people too hard for the "truth". If she's happy with a lie, let it be. If it sounds " a little shady" it may well be, but are you her keeper? Was she a druggy, or hurting herself or anyone else with these little white lies? If not, then leave it alone.

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slant eyes

i guess, an again, not an attack on any one's morals or whatnot, we tend to value honesty a bit different, especially those you refer to/refer as your best friend.

thanks all for your input. sorry for the long read.

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dlish

i feel theres some underlying sexual tension going on there, and most of it seems to stem from you. maybe u should re-evaluate how u feel towards her.

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slant eyes

i don't see how you got that. but i'll go with it. i don't have any sexual tensions, at least i don't believe so. the part i find most disturbing was not that someone else was there or that she didn't want to talk to me on her drive home. it was that she lied.

when your lazy brother, who never cleans up at all, offers to wash your car for you, you question it right? no matter how hot it is and how badly it sucks to drive home with windows up and no a/c, i'm almost made feel guilty if i don't talk to her on the drive home....all the way home.

she does the same. she would wake me up from sleep and talk to me while she drives to her destination point. so when she opted not to talk, it immediately raised a red flag.

i guess no one sees what i've been tryin to ask. so here goes. basically, how would any of you feel, if your 'best friend' lies to you?

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Nisses

the fact that nobody sees what you are trying to ask, is because you actually raise a number of other points in your post so clearly that one can't help but wonder why you would react in this way.

As far as I'm concerned: If my best friend lied to me, I'd let it go pretty much, because if you're really best friends, he/she is either really uncomfortable enough to not want to talk about it to you, or will fess up afterwards. I don't need to know every single little detail about their day, I just don't mind. There are still some things every person likes to keep private.

see, to me, and alot of other people, this is far too much. This is something a jealous boyfriend would do for a single "red flag" that is being raised.

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raeanna74

As to the question - What would you do if your best friend lied to you?

I've experienced it. My best friend in high school was better off monetarily and began to attract more of the clickish groups of kids. When I approached her she started making excuses for leaving me. She had to go to the bathroom, she had to go find a book she forgot. It wouldn't have bothered me but it began to be EVERY time I approached her within just a minute or two. She still wanted to see me on the home front because we were close neighbors and I was better at the subjects than she was so we studied together. I realized she wanted other friends and I was a liability to her. Her "excuses" were stinging and hurtful. So I quit talking to her. I didn't go to her wedding. I barely talk to her now even though our parents are still neighbors and friends. I lost the friend. Honestly though, I don't regret it. The last time I talked to her she bragged about things she'd done. I happened to meet her Dad in the store and he too bragged. Their stories were slightly different. She had shaded the thruth to make it more glamorous. I don't want a lier for a friend. If you're sure she's lying to you for no good reason (like if she truely is planning B-day stuff) then she's changed into an unbeneficial friend.

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ratbastid

There are many opportunities in life to choose between being right and being happy. This is one of them.

Let it go.

guthmund

If my best friend lied to me, there would probably be a very good reason for it, and, therefore, I'd understand because he's my best friend.

While I don't like bald face lies just for shits and giggles, I do understand that some things are private even between the best of friends.

It seems to me when you're 'checking' her hood for heat, holding your little inquisition and trying to poke holes in her tales, you should really try to remember why she's your friend in the first place...that or re-evaluate your definition of 'best friend.'

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slant eyes

rat: i've actually began callin and checkin on her as she has fallen quite ill. so in some sense i have let some of it go, but not completely since i have let it go before.

guth: more backround info. while i've never lied to her, this she knows as well, she accuses me of lying and we get into fights. she has been there every step of the way in my 'getting over' my ex. she hated that i let the 'getting over' process drag out so long and i allowed her that much leverage over me. i went to her nephew's b-day party because my ex's brother and wife asked me to. i still keep contact with them and have seen their son grow up, being there with him since he wasn't even 1, to his just recent 6th birthday. as a matter of fact, my cell background is a picture of him holding me.

our friendship has always entailed unconditional truth. everything that happens, we tell each other about. on her own will, she tells me everyone who contacts her during the day (told you it's a quirky relationship) and i do the same. when i forget to tell her my female neighbor talked to me, she gets quite pissed.

i get scheduled for work in my ex's neighborhood quite often as there is an arena out in long beach and long beach is quite large. then out of the blue, my ex calls. i tell my best friend about it and work and we get into this huge ass fight about her accusing me of lying about work just to see my ex.

so guth, as i've said before, i've had to stomach whatever lie she MAY have given me cuz there was no way to prove it. her grandma lives down the street from me. after the lie, she wasn't feeling good so i rode down the street on my bike to see her, her car wasn't there. i rode home, got my car, and drove to her house. it may have been wrong, but the opportunity to finally prove her lies probably overwhelmed my self control. i had to check, closure i guess.

thanks all for your thoughts. i still find honesty important. foundation for everything. she tells me she loves me and i tell her i love her. cuz we do. and WE'VE always said, 'love is half trust' -- i guess this is where the importance lies with me. i'm not saying she loves me any less, but those are my priorities.

as a matter of fact, i've just gotten off the phone with her cuz i woke up this morning at 9 and called to see how she was doing. thanks again guys.

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pig

honestly slant I would strongly consider re-structuring your relationship with this girl. I think that y'all have constructed a relationship that is almost bound to end up with someone telling lies every so often. I believe it's possible to share, and expect to be shared with, a little too much. In my opinion, you might want to ask yourselves why y'all feel compelled to share this much information with each other. Is it becuause you both helped each other through the aftermath of serious relationships? On one hand, I can understand you being displeased that your friend may have told you a lie, etc. On a different level, however, regardless of whether you characterize it is a "quirky" relationship, whether y'all are a regular when-harry-met-sally pair or whatnot...I personally believe y'all may have constructed a co-dependent trap where one of you is bound to constantly get angry at the other due to the amount of detail expected. I think that *very* few people really want to live up to that level of scrutiny and review in their lives every day. I suggest relaxing the old sphincter a bit, on both sides.

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shesus

I have read down through the thread and I honestly think that this relationship is unhealthy. From what I am reading (and correct me if I am wrong), it sounds as if you are obsessed with this person. You talk all the time on the phone, your day is thrown off if she doesn't call you at a certain time, you are checking her car for warmth to see if she actually drove, ... I would strongly suggest taking a break from this person and figuring out why you are so obsessed. I have had best friends before and wondered what they are doing, where they are,... But your situation sounds extreme to me.
You mentioned a break-up. Do you think maybe you are using her as a rebound emotionally? You said you had feelings about her which is natural in a personal relationship (I am not going on the sexual preference limb here).
While I was reading this, I was reminded by one of my ex-boyfriends who was very possessive and obsessed. He would spy on me at work, stay at my house until 3 in the morning and want me at his house by 7 in the morning, call all the time, etc. His obsession ended him up in the hospital because he was so sure that I was cheating on him and lying that he got in a rage and wrecked his car. He was in a coma for about a month. During his hospital stay, I realized that the relationship was unhealthy and ended it. Yeah, I was a bitch breaking up with a person in a coma, but you have to look out for yourself and your needs.

I think that you need to analyze why you are so concerned over a drive home from work. What is her motive for lying about it?

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Suave

I'm not entirely sure why you care here. Is it your car? It looks to me like you're obsessing over an activity in which someone partook earlier that is completely unrelated to you. I personally don't believe the issue is whether or not she is lying; it is whether or not it's worth it for you to care in this case.

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Sugarmouse

i d say drop it..dnt accuse her of lying again and just accept thhat she may have done.everyojne lies sometiems..for all sorts of reasons...i would just drift along and see if she behaves weird again.but this i would drop and not over analyse too much. over analysing..and particularly accusing ppl of lying can snowball into all sorts of problems..it can even create lies as she may beleive she has to have reasons for everything..or she may become agitated and feel you cant trust her or not feel as close to you..it can cause more damage than a few white lies...seriously i would leave it.

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Lasereth

Sorry for the misunderstanding, but it sounds exactly like you slapped her in your first post. I'm glad you didn't slap her!

It sounds to me like you seriously like the girl, enough to want to date her. That's the only way I can think that you'd be upset that much at her for lying. I know you've mentioned you're not sexually tensioned with her, but it sure sounds like it. All I can advise is thinking about the relationship and how you feel about her; lying is unfaithful in a friendship, but checking the hood of her car to see how warm it is is <I>very</I> ex-boyfriend stalker material. It truly sounds like you care about her in more ways than you realize.

-Lasereth

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Bacchanal

I'm glad you pointed that out Las, because I was going to if you hadn't. The first post definitely makes it sound like he slapped her.

No offense Slant.

This has to be one of the strangest relationships I've ever heard of. If someone lies about something as inconsequential as driving home, why care? Yeah, you talk to her all the time... maybe she wanted to talk to someone else on the drive, maybe she wanted to drive in silence. Did you ever think you're wearing on each other, and should maybe put some distance between yourselves? I'm not this close with women I'm dating, and it's because I don't want to smother them. If they were this "close" with me, I'd have to tell them to back off.

Not only all that, but it seems like you're trying (hard) to find lies when maybe there aren't any. You "pressed and pressed" when you could have just let it go. Feeling her hood for heat because you don't believe she drove is just nuts in my opinion.

This will end badly, I believe.

guthmund

Well, then you're both crazy.

What I don't understand is why you're friends in the first place. I'm sure she's a nice girl and all that, but if someone was constantly berating me about where I was and who with, accusing me of doing things I wouldn't and just acting crazy in general, I'd have to seriously sit down and wonder why I call this gal one of my better friends.

On the flip side, I'd have to seriously wonder why I hung around with a guy who was constantly trying to poke holes in my excuses. I mean, going back to your house to get the car to catch her in a lie?

I have but the light of experience to light my path...or something... Anyway, friends don't treat each other like that. Of course honesty is important and true candor between two friends is one of the better things in this world, but the whole 'friendship' seems a bit strange, to say the least.

Good luck to you.

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SpikeQX99

A good piece of advice that I have learned over time, is that if you go looking for things *trouble, etc.* you WILL find it.. And then you will be mad that you looked for it..

So if there is truely nothing between you two other than a good friendship, then let her be for a while.. Sometimes people don't feel the need to be answering the old 20 questions game.. They do things that they don't want you to know about.. That's it. If she doesn't tell you flat out... BFD.. It can't be that important in the first place.

It will, in the long run, grate on you more than her.. And about friends that lie.. WHO DOESN'T fib every now and again... Especially when it is a matter that doesn't particularly concern anyone other than them...

I don't know. Just my thoughts..

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slant eyes

thanks again all for your feedback.

some more answers to questions before i let this thread wither into oblivion. i don't have those feelings for her. she once approached me because she had feelings for me. we love each other as best friends and there were opportunities to take this further, but i opted to let it pass.

i can't stress enough that it wasn't where she was or that she'd gone. it was the lie. like i said, you know when something's not right, and when it ain't, you begin to question it.

if she can lie to me about something so miniscule, what's stopping her from lying about something on a grander scale?

i don't feel i smother her. when she usually says she has *fill in the blank* to do, i let her do it as long as she wants. however, when i become too busy with my life, work, school, home, she gets irate demanding time spent with her and calling me every hour.

i don't mean to bad mouth her. i'm hoping to better illustrate the quirky-ness of our relationship.

i'm sorry guys (and gals), i appreciate all the thoughts and comments. she never believes i smother her and apologizes that she demands too much of my time. she claims herself to be needy of affection, and only the affection from me. so i don't think i smother her.

she's realized she's lied to me and thought it to be stupid, yes i've spoken to her and seen her today to check on her health (read above, she's ill).

i value honesty and she knows this. it was a line crossed twice, that i know of. thanks for the suggestions people

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TopRamen66

What everyone else said, once first signs of doubt appear, the relationship is soon to go down the shitter.

Sugarmouse

[QUOTE=SpikeQX99]A good piece of advice that I have learned over time, is that if you go looking for things *trouble, etc.* you WILL find it.. And then you will be mad that you looked for it..


tht is the best advice i have heard in a while...my ex was like this..and this is why he is my ex...he alwys constantly accusing me..tellin me i was lying when i wasnt, tellingme why i did things or that things i did were wrong or malicious when they seemed innocent to me..i got narked..we argued..i started hiding things i did from him..he told me to not do things i wanted to do..so i had to be devious.if you look for trouble..you become the cause i wishyou luck keep let us know what happens! have yu seen her since?

Bacchanal are you rewaly that forthright that you would tell someoen to back off if they were being too invasive?just asking cos im curious?

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Bacchanal

If I met a person that demanded this much of my time and effort, I would tell them to back off or not bother with them at all. I want time for me, and I don't want that time questioned. I don't want people "checking up" on me whenever they feel. I certainly don't want someone demanding that I talk to them while I'm driving, that is my time. I don't like being on the phone anyway. Not more than "what's going on? see you in a minute" type of calls. I hate just talking for no reason other than just to chat.

slant eyes

bacchanal: i didn't demand that she talk to me while driving. she always does and that is why when she had a lame excuse for not following routine, i smelled something fishy. i didn't force her to do anything.

i have seen her. she wanted to fix things and said she couldn't do without me in her life. i too didn't want to. so i took some of your advices, and told her maybe i was partially at fault. maybe we shouldn't have to tell each other everything about our lives. and in all honesty, she began crying harder, saying 'no, we should'.

we're planning on working things out. she said she won't lie anymore. 'i've lost you for 4 days in my life, i'm not gonna do it again'. when she said 'lost' i just wasn't the same. i was more casual in being a friend. so this here is where we stand thus far.

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Daknjak

I agree with ratbastid...who cares? She could walk home with the Jolly Green Giant, and since your not married or dating, big deal. Life is too short, don't sweat the small stuff.

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Suave

Her conscience. I tell half-truths and white lies all the time in order to avoid irritating conversation topics, or to avoid getting people involved in parts of my life that I consider private. However, I would not lie to them about something big, or anything in which they were directly involved.

Trust is not about knowing that someone will always tell you the truth; trust is about knowing that you can rely on someone to be truthful or to support you when it is important. If something as small as a lie about her drive throws you off, I suggest you reconsider the way you evaluate trustworthiness, because 99.999% of people lie, and the ones who don't all live in monasteries and temples.

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