There's a link here (which should be fairly reliable and unsensationalist) giving an account as to how the events have been reported so far today: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659511.stm

my friend is in london, her professors hiked miles to get to their classes after the tube shut down.

go london

Go London indeed.

Its tremendously sad to hear that another of the worlds major cities got struck by a terror attack. Unfortunately, I have been around people (who are, on the most part, far from mentally stable) for long enough that there is no real point in trying to understand their logic for attacking others.

In relation to why they didnt strike Live8 - I think even terrorist fundamentalists would appreciate the work that Live8 was doing to help stop poverty. I'd like to think that all humans have some compassion and poverty is one of the things that draws out this in people.

It could help that Africa's got a lot of strongly Muslim countries I think.

I'll wait until I have more information to try to figure out the real political ramifications and motivations of this move - at the moment I'm just hoping that the fatalities and injuries are as minimal as possible. Really just awful to hear this first thing in the morning.

but why??? I mean besides our obvious answers. what can motivate such hatred?

My thoughts exactly. I'm glad I don't have any friends in London at the moment; were it fall I probably would.

The seemingly quick recovery from this incident just goes to show how wonderful London is, and more importantly, how great the British people are :thumbsup: It's unfortunate they had to be tested this way.

Please help: Can someone tell me where this address is in relation to the bombing...

16 Claremont House
47 Worcester Road
Sutton Surrey

I heard from him this morning - he's 16 miles away and he andhis family are all fine... :)

Thank God, Mal. And thank you. I think I'll ring his little froggy neck for scaring me.

I have a question...I was reading all the "reactions" around the world and came across this one as quoted on CNN

I honestly dont know a whole lot about this, but isnt this the same "IRA" that people were talking about earlier in one of the London threads that "might" have been responsible? or am I confused?

Yes it is. Sinn Fein is the "Political" wing of the organization.

and so this group who has been active according to the post I read...which I take to mean (correct me if Im wrong) that they have a beef with England in some fashion, and if Im not mistaken blow up things for their own cause, is condeming this attack?

I swear this is one reason I dont follow politics cause I simply CANT understand stuff like this

Simply put (and ths is someone who supports the cause but not necessarily t he methods) the IRA wants british rule out of Northern Ireland.

The IRA have been active in the fairly recent past, but the original organisation renounced violence and began decomissioning talks after the Good Friday Agreement of 98.

And they'll use any means to get it. For more background on the IRA, go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisi...epublican_Army

There are a lot of reasons why the IRA does what they do, but suffice it to say they did not do this, and they have been relatively non-violent since the ceasefire in 1997.

Copy/pasted from my repeat post before it gets deleted:

Sorry if this is a repost but I didn't see any other threads. My mom called me at 6 in the morning to tell me about the news she saw of terrorist attacks in London. There were four explosions during rush hour on the Underground and the double-decker red busses. I spent a semester in London and virtually left my heart there. I no it's nothing new, but I just can't believe people have to brutally kill other people to get attention. I can't explain how sad I am right now, it really hit close to home.

thanks for clearing that up guys!!! I guess I got confused with somebody saying the IRA might be behind todays attack....I knew ya'll could straighten me out, thanks for the links to read!!

I think it is obvious why they did not attack live8 last week or Gleneagles, security was probably just too tight, it would have been that much harder. This is a terrible attack and I spent alot of the morning trying to call people I knew. it is really horrible :(

edit: the IRA most likely has nothing to do with this. They are a shell of their former self (almost completely disarmed) plus this isn't their style.

Tell me about it, the most confusing thing about the IRA, in light of the past few years, is that they were largely funded by US citizens.

random thought in my head

4 planes in 9/11 4 bombs in todays London attack...

back to your discussion

This possibility was discussed on NPR Morning Edition. The reasons that they said it wasn't the IRA were that:
* the IRA hasn't done a bomb attack in about 10 years
* the IRA attacks were always preceded by a coded message to authorities shortly before the attacks.
* the IRA attacks were generally held in the Financial district late Friday nights or early Saturday mornings, times when the civilian casualties would be slim to none.

(all from my memory, could be inaccurate)

Wow, the bus bombing was at a little square called Russel Square. I walked by that ever morning to ULU for class while studying.

London authority is now hunting for the bomber. I think that pretty much says that there wasn't any suicidical bombers otherwise, what's the point of looking for them if they're in pieces :D

You know, Egypt, Israel, Lebanon and some others also condemned todays attack. Aside from a couple of state-sponsors (Iran, Sryia), terrorists are a relatively small, select group of extremists.

Terrorists also fall into different categories:

1. political terrorism - employed as a mean to achieve a politcal goal such as independence, autonomy etc. PLO, IRA fall into this category. Typically, only employed until such goal is realized. The American Revolutionaries often used similar tactics against the British and their sympathizers. Use of asymetrical tactics (bombings etc) due to poor material resoures and underarmed against conventional nation-state basd armies. The idea is to use this method to force some sort of negotiation or deal.

2. catastrophic terrorism - the worst kind. Non-negotiable. Usually wants the complete and total destruction of their enemies as an objective. There is no negotiation. They will not stop until they are completely destroyed or their enemies are. Does not distinguish between civilian (innocent) and military or appropriate targets. Everything is fair game. Al-Q'aida falls into this category along with Hamas (sort of) although they have mellowed out a bit.

I can't remember the rest. I took an Anti-Terrorism course at UCLA last summer. It was very interesting to say the least (formal title: POL SCI 121A: US-Foreign Relations- Forming International Coalitions to Combat Terrorism).

Someone asked, how and why do "they" "hate" us so? It's rather complex - political, social, economic. Part of it's the extremist ideology that is indoctrinated among "vulnerable", suscestible people (i.e. - unemployed, idle, uneducated males 17-45). THere is a LARGE pool of this demographic that is especially vulnerable to this ideology. They have nothing to lose. Need someone to blame...classic. Charismatic leaders with the gift of gab can really rouse them into action.

This is not exhaustive, nor necessarily absolute. I just wanted to add to the discussion. I will stop here to keep the post short. I will add more later as I have pages and pages more to add.

I like to read DEBKAfile, Political Analysis, Espionage, Terrorism Security at times like these. They aren't always accurate, but they are unfiltered, and often give an interesting perspective:

Miscalculation, bitches. London survived the Blitz. England had her nose bloodied in two world wars. And while we fought on the same side, England went through hardships that we in the States can not fathom.

England is a tough old broad. You think a couple of little bombs are going to change anything in England? This isn't Spain. The English aren't going to run away. They're going to carry on exactly as they did before the bombings. Oh, and they are going to firmly, but politely kick your miserable, cowadly asses.

another thought...

8:46 a.m.: American Airlines Flight 11 impacts the north side of the North Tower
9:03 a.m.: United Airlines Flight 175 crashes into the south tower
9:43 a.m.: American Airlines Flight 77 crashes into the Pentagon
10:10 a.m.: United Airlines Flight 93, crashes in Somerset County, Pennsylvania

8:51 am An explosion occurs on an underground train traveling between Aldgate and Liverpool Street stations on the Circle Line.

8:56 An explosion hits an underground train traveling on the Piccadilly Line between King's Cross and Russell Square stations.

9:17 A third explosion occurs on a train approaching Edgware Road station. The explosion blows a hole in a wall, hitting a second train and possibly a third.

9:47 A No. 30 bus on Upper Woburn Place near Tavistock Square is destroyed by a fourth explosion. Pictures show the roof of the double-decker bus ripped off and witnesses report seeing body parts in the road, Reuters reports.

yeah I know....its not exact and I should stop comparing them...but for some reason I just cant

if you understood that I told Dave at the end of last week that I had a really bad feeling something bad on a "national" scale was fixing to happen (granted this was international instead) it might help you to understand my need at the moment to draw parrells..or just call me a kook and ignore me

That about sums it up...

Here's a pic of the blown-up bus I found earlier.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/09...decker_bus.jpg

My thoughts and prayers are with all you Londoners.

London Pride has been handed down to us.
London Pride is a flower that's free.
London Pride means our own dear town to us,
And our pride it for ever will be.
Woa, Liza,
See the coster barrows,
Vegetable marrows
And the fruit piled high.
Woa, Liza,
Little London sparrows,
Covent Garden Market where the costers cry.
Cockney feet
Mark the beat of history.
Every street
Pins a memory down.
Nothing ever can quite replace
The grace of London Town.

There's a little city flower every spring unfailing
Growing in the crevices by some London railing,
Though it has a Latin name, in town and country-side
We in England call it London Pride.

London Pride has been handed down to us.
London Pride is a flower that's free.
London Pride means our own dear town to us,
And our pride it for ever will be.
Hey, lady,
When the day is dawning
See the policeman yawning
On his lonely beat.
Gay lady,
Mayfair in the morning,
Hear your footsteps echo in the empty street.
Early rain
And the pavement's glistening.
All Park Lane
In a shimmering gown.
Nothing ever could break or harm
The charm of London Town.

In our city darkened now, street and square and crescent,
We can feel our living past in our shadowed present,
Ghosts beside our starlit Thames
Who lived and loved and died
Keep throughout the ages London Pride.

London Pride has been handed down to us.
London Pride is a flower that's free.
London Pride means our own dear town to us,
And our pride it for ever will be.
Grey city
Stubbornly implanted,
Taken so for granted
For a thousand years.
Stay, city,
Smokily enchanted,
Cradle of our memories and hopes and fears.
Every Blitz
Your resistance
Toughening,
From the Ritz
To the Anchor and Crown,
Nothing ever could override
The pride of London Town.
----------------------------------
Noel Coward

And in common with oter posters, I used to live just by Russel Square. Every day I walked past the bombsite. London is just as much MY city as it is anyones - and nobody has any right to bomb it.

It's crappy and grim in parts, and we might hate each other at times, but it's OURS and frankly, if anyone is going to trash the place it should be US.

I see some foreign news sites talking about how stunnning it is tat the Londoners picked themselves up, brushed the broken glass out of their hair, found their bags and walked through the crowds to get to work.

What else would you have us do? Nobody's helped by people standing round whining about how they'll be late home. People get on with stuff. It's how London works. It's why we had the largest and most peacefull empire the world ever saw. It's why people think Brits can't emote - "stiff upper lip".

People get on with life, and refuse to give up on normality.

The only way you'll get most Londoners to stop getting on is to nail them into a box.

And then put something heavy on the box.

And bury it.

Unless there's sport on the TV, then they all stay home and phone in sick. :p

And another thing.

What sort of shitty excuse for a terrorist organisation sets off a bomb just outside the headquarters of the best medical society in the world?

The headquarters of the BMA is on Tavistock Place, where the bus was bombed. There were several dozen of the most well respected and experienced medics on the planet 20 seconds away from the blast.

How badly can you fuck up a bomb on a bus?

That badly.

Sad day for london indeed, but when will they learn, this will change nothing, we in london have gone through this all before, it won't change anything, at least not for me, i will continue to ride the bus and underground. They can go and fuck themselves if they think this has achieved anything.

My prayers are for the families and people who were unlucky to be caught directly in this. To them i wish a speedy recovery in grief, shock and injury.

Peace be with you all.

I've heard some speculation that the bomb on the bus may have been an accident, in that one of the bombers may have been en route to hit another train and may have either been behing schedule and/or had a malfunction.

The bus was scheduled to pass outside King's Cross station about ten minutes after the one in the Tube tunnel. It was only detonated outside the BMA because the bus was re-routed following the first bomb to allow ambulances to get through to the Station.

here is an assumed map of the bombings

http://photos23.flickr.com/24311396_f7bae782a6.jpg

I remember hearing stuff like this about Sept 11 and the Bali Bombings. I don't see how detonating it outside the bomb outside the British Medical Association makes it a fuck-up at all. They detonated the bomb, didn't they? It happened so close to the building but I doubt that had much of an impact on the number of people saved or treated, as they were transfered to hospitals around the city anyway. It's hard not to take pot-shots at terrorist groups and it's hard not to mock them to strengthen our resolve and make ourselves feel better, but I don't see how that particular location of the detonation makes much of a difference to the strength or the ability of the terrorists who did this.

I read today that there was a 'controlled detonation' on a device/bag found on a bus in central Edinburgh, but I haven't seen or heard anything about it save for that single sentence. Has anyone heard mention of this?

Agreed!

If there's any country that as stubborn and strong as the US, it's the UK. All the crazy Brits, Scots and Irishmen are happy to pick up arms next to the crazy rednecks, thugs and punks to go wh00p some commie ass... I mean terrorist ass... the commies haven't been a problem in decades.

~X