Another School shooting - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ShaniFaye · 03-23-2005, 04:16 AM

From what I understand tougher gun laws really wouldnt have helped in this situation since the weapons included shotguns, which if I understand right are not controlled the same way....and his grandfathers POLICE revolver.

Stompy · 03-23-2005, 12:42 PM

Yeah, banning guns would be pointless because then he could just stab people.

Then you'd have to ban knives.

Then he could just use a pencil. Then you'd have to ban pencils, which... would make school just about impossible unless you got everyone computers, but then you could probably just pull out a stick of RAM and slice someone's throat open on the corner... so then we'd have to develop some new type of "soft" RAM.

So, I say leave the gun laws as they are. I believe in natural selection. Things will sort themselves out eventually.

Seanland · 03-23-2005, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stompy

Yeah, banning guns would be pointless

Personally, I think banning guns would be the worst approach to this situation, all it will do is create more problems

oktjabr · 03-23-2005, 12:59 PM

Seems a bit illogical to connect this with the gun control debate as this kid used his grandfathers service weapon.

Though now when we are talking about it, it is a bit clumsy to say that he could have stabbed those people. I don't think that many 17-year old kids can go on a stabbing rampage. Bet it is much easier with firearms.

sailor · 03-23-2005, 05:20 PM

Tragic, and scary.

Postings from the kid on a neo-nazi message board.

Livejournal of the kid...

Seanland · 03-23-2005, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailor

Tragic, and scary.

Postings from the kid on a neo-nazi message board.

Livejournal of the kid...

Kind of weird, I was looking through hes post on the site with that link.. I find it really stupid that they would link this to the site... He didn't say anything related to the incidents or planning on the incidents, He said he was being blamed for a possible threat, which seemed originally he was not involved in.. maybe he was misunderstood, cause not once does he write anything about harming certain ethnicities... after reading these posts.. I believe there was no reason to relate that to his actions... sure he wants to become a nazi, thats his buisness, didn't really related to anything involving the shootings, seems like the writers just have to blame someone...
I'm not defending nazism, but I'm just saying.. you want to be an asshole, be an asshole, just don't blame it on the assholes cause you dont like them...
at this point from what I have read no specific ethnic group has been targeted, so really why bring up the site... to me its just an invasion of privacy.. please correct me if im wrong

cellophanedeity · 03-23-2005, 07:04 PM

This is terrifying and selfish and horrible.

I hope I never learn what it takes for someone to want to do this.

Oh, and your second ammendment was created in order to defend basic human rights from those who refuse to comply while your country was building itself, correct? I have a feeling that the US is stable enough now to not need guns anymore.

Bodyhammer86 · 03-23-2005, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Oh, and your second ammendment was created in order to defend basic human rights from those who refuse to comply while your country was building itself, correct? I have a feeling that the US is stable enough now to not need guns anymore.

Must....resist.....responding....

FlunkedFlank · 03-23-2005, 11:14 PM

Is this the first case of someone who commited a major criminal act being found to have left a trail of evidence on modern-style message boards and blogs? i.e., vBulliten/YaBB/etc.., as opposed to the more traditional breeding ground: Usenet and AOL chat rooms.

I can't think of another where web-based chat rooms have been referred to as widely in the media coverage.

guthmund · 03-24-2005, 01:50 PM

It seems the Smoking Gun has dredged up some more stuff on the kid....

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0323051weise1.html

Now, I kind of made light of his postings on the Neo-Nazi boards, but when taking in consideration with all the stuff that has come to light....well, maybe I shouldn't have.
It doesn't excuse what he did, but it certainly puts it into context.

Pacifier · 03-24-2005, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stompy

Yeah, banning guns would be pointless because then he could just stab people.

Then you'd have to ban knives.

No, a gun is much easier to use than a knive. a knive requires physical contact, you have to thrust the blade into the victim while a gun is just a pont and klick interface. There is a "safe" distance between you and your victim.

But I also believe that gun control would not be a good solution, it would only fight the symptoms while the problem, the violence in the american society, has different reasons than just the possession of guns.

Slavakion · 03-24-2005, 05:23 PM

You might find this interesting... a flash animation made by Jeff before that day. Guess what it's about...
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/195194

0energy0 · 03-24-2005, 06:46 PM

Many of these kids are stressed out or have problems. I think the school should provide counselors, and if they do, they should emphasize them on the students. I remember in my high school, counselors were supportive and helped my classmates in every single way.

I, myself, have experienced this stress in college. I have gotten to the point of insanity because of school work. These children are being treated respectfully....maybe.

Now there will be invasions of privacy. I've heard in certain towns they had breathalyzers at dances, openings of lockers, searching of bags, and suspicion on many students. Sometimes these kids want to be left alone.

btw, guns should be banned. it is terrible what is happening in the school in the US.

Stompy · 03-24-2005, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slavakion

You might find this interesting... a flash animation made by Jeff before that day. Guess what it's about...
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/195194

Whoa! Awesome... uh, are you sure that kid made that? That takes some talent... too bad he wasted it. He could've gotten a pretty decent job at being a flash developer.

keyshawn · 03-24-2005, 08:13 PM

According to this article in the NY times - http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/24/na...&partner=MYWAY
[no reg required !

]

Many warning signs were there, as described in the article.

- When shootings like this happen, I feel very numb, at society as a whole. 8th Grade and Freshman year of high school, I was diagnosed with depression....[Actually I'm still on effexor, though my life perspective has changed tremendously from then, 4 years ago.] [My previous condition was never as serious as Mr. weise's was].

This kid cried for attention, albeit not directly. When you're in that troubled state, you just can't go up to a teacher or counselor and say "I NEED FUCKING HELP - I CANT TAKE THIS SHIT.." At least I couldn't do it....For whatever reason(s), I would do more subtle things: stab the notebook paper with the pen, cut classes, not do homework, or procastinate like hell with it, to the point where the teachers notice something's up...[I even shared my experiences on a depression forum online as well].

I did go to my counselor for help occasionally, though at my school there was about 300 or so students per counselor. This, along with the other responsibilities the counselor had, there were A LOT of times, I felt I had nowhere to turn to, and was pretty pissed that my school would have more people working in the finance office than have counselors.

But, not to be too tangental to this thread: I DO NOT CONDONE this kid's actions; however, I can sympathize with him, that the desperation was so much, he felt there was nothing else he could do remedy the situation and gave up.

My fellow peers need to care for each other more, not just pay attention to the warning signs, but actually take action with them: talk to the person, console and offer advice, talk to an admired faculty member.

Schools and teachers: whether they acknowledge it or not, teachers have quite a bit of potential to guide a nd influence a teen's life; remember that what may seem just like 'a day or two' of troubles can appear to a
troubled kid as a lengthy dilemma.

Parents: As Captain Obvious, i'll state it - "Talk to your kids ! Have a damned good relationship with them, and do as much as you can [without spoiling the child] to understand their teenage world that they live in is probably much different than yours was...

Regards,
will.

EDIT: After reading his newgrounds profile, one of his favorite films was 'elephant' - an indie film about 2 boys in high school who were loners, picked on; went on a school shooting and then killed themselves.
[released about a year or two ago....][i rented once from the library, an ok film]

Slavakion · 03-25-2005, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stompy

Whoa! Awesome... uh, are you sure that kid made that? That takes some talent... too bad he wasted it. He could've gotten a pretty decent job at being a flash developer.

Yeah, it was a pretty good flash for his second submission.

Taken from the website:

Quote:

<u>Newgrounds Staff Comment:</u>
We are leaving this page online as part of the public record. Tom [owner of Newgrounds] is out of town until Sunday. If you need to contact us with questions please direct them to wade@newgrounds.com with the subject "Newgrounds Help - Jeff"

For those who don't realize what this is about, this entry was submitted by Jeff Weise who recently carried out a horrible school shooting before ending his own life.

<u>Author's comments:</u>

My first Frame by Frame animation, and my first submission to NG. This was basically just a test, or practice, and has no plot other then people getting blown away.

EDIT: He also had one more flash at NG. Kinda creepy.
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/199857

sailor · 03-25-2005, 07:31 AM

OK... Misunderstood... Maybe. And that sucks. But there is a difference between being misunderstood and shooting up a school. I dont care how many people make fun of you, tease you, misunderstand you, whatever--he still shot up a school, and thats unexcusable, no matter what the circumstances.

flstf · 03-25-2005, 11:35 AM

I wonder why some kids today are so inclined to go off the deep end? Is there so much more pressure on kids today?

Back in the 60's we would get rid of our pent up anger with sex, drugs, beer and rock 'n' roll. Aren't these things good enough for today's generation? Any kid who carried a gun was considered a wimp.

03-23-2005, 04:16 AM	#41 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	From what I understand tougher gun laws really wouldnt have helped in this situation since the weapons included shotguns, which if I understand right are not controlled the same way....and his grandfathers POLICE revolver. __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

03-23-2005, 12:42 PM	#42 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	Yeah, banning guns would be pointless because then he could just stab people. Then you'd have to ban knives. Then he could just use a pencil. Then you'd have to ban pencils, which... would make school just about impossible unless you got everyone computers, but then you could probably just pull out a stick of RAM and slice someone's throat open on the corner... so then we'd have to develop some new type of "soft" RAM. So, I say leave the gun laws as they are. I believe in natural selection. Things will sort themselves out eventually. __________________ I love lamp.

03-23-2005, 12:59 PM	#44 (permalink)
oktjabr Crazy Location: Fünland	Seems a bit illogical to connect this with the gun control debate as this kid used his grandfathers service weapon. Though now when we are talking about it, it is a bit clumsy to say that he could have stabbed those people. I don't think that many 17-year old kids can go on a stabbing rampage. Bet it is much easier with firearms. __________________ "If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stomping on a human face -- forever." -G.O.

03-23-2005, 05:20 PM	#45 (permalink)
sailor beauty in the breakdown Location: Chapel Hill, NC	Tragic, and scary. Postings from the kid on a neo-nazi message board. Livejournal of the kid... __________________ "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." --Plato

03-23-2005, 11:14 PM	#49 (permalink)
FlunkedFlank Tilted	Is this the first case of someone who commited a major criminal act being found to have left a trail of evidence on modern-style message boards and blogs? i.e., vBulliten/YaBB/etc.., as opposed to the more traditional breeding ground: Usenet and AOL chat rooms. I can't think of another where web-based chat rooms have been referred to as widely in the media coverage. __________________ Jesus saves ... and Gretzky gets the rebound!

03-23-2005, 07:04 PM	#47 (permalink)
cellophanedeity Heliotrope Location: A warm room	This is terrifying and selfish and horrible. I hope I never learn what it takes for someone to want to do this. Oh, and your second ammendment was created in order to defend basic human rights from those who refuse to comply while your country was building itself, correct? I have a feeling that the US is stable enough now to not need guns anymore.

03-24-2005, 01:50 PM	#50 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	It seems the Smoking Gun has dredged up some more stuff on the kid.... http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0323051weise1.html Now, I kind of made light of his postings on the Neo-Nazi boards, but when taking in consideration with all the stuff that has come to light....well, maybe I shouldn't have. It doesn't excuse what he did, but it certainly puts it into context. __________________ No signature. None. Seriously.

03-24-2005, 05:23 PM	#52 (permalink)
Slavakion Mjollnir Incarnate Location: Lost in thought	You might find this interesting... a flash animation made by Jeff before that day. Guess what it's about... http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/195194

03-24-2005, 06:46 PM	#53 (permalink)
0energy0 Insane Location: Title Town, USA	Many of these kids are stressed out or have problems. I think the school should provide counselors, and if they do, they should emphasize them on the students. I remember in my high school, counselors were supportive and helped my classmates in every single way. I, myself, have experienced this stress in college. I have gotten to the point of insanity because of school work. These children are being treated respectfully....maybe. Now there will be invasions of privacy. I've heard in certain towns they had breathalyzers at dances, openings of lockers, searching of bags, and suspicion on many students. Sometimes these kids want to be left alone. btw, guns should be banned. it is terrible what is happening in the school in the US. __________________ Is the juice worth the squeeze?

03-24-2005, 08:13 PM	#55 (permalink)
keyshawn Psycho	According to this article in the NY times - http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/24/na...&partner=MYWAY [no reg required ! ] Many warning signs were there, as described in the article. - When shootings like this happen, I feel very numb, at society as a whole. 8th Grade and Freshman year of high school, I was diagnosed with depression....[Actually I'm still on effexor, though my life perspective has changed tremendously from then, 4 years ago.] [My previous condition was never as serious as Mr. weise's was]. This kid cried for attention, albeit not directly. When you're in that troubled state, you just can't go up to a teacher or counselor and say "I NEED FUCKING HELP - I CANT TAKE THIS SHIT.." At least I couldn't do it....For whatever reason(s), I would do more subtle things: stab the notebook paper with the pen, cut classes, not do homework, or procastinate like hell with it, to the point where the teachers notice something's up...[I even shared my experiences on a depression forum online as well]. I did go to my counselor for help occasionally, though at my school there was about 300 or so students per counselor. This, along with the other responsibilities the counselor had, there were A LOT of times, I felt I had nowhere to turn to, and was pretty pissed that my school would have more people working in the finance office than have counselors. But, not to be too tangental to this thread: I DO NOT CONDONE this kid's actions; however, I can sympathize with him, that the desperation was so much, he felt there was nothing else he could do remedy the situation and gave up. My fellow peers need to care for each other more, not just pay attention to the warning signs, but actually take action with them: talk to the person, console and offer advice, talk to an admired faculty member. Schools and teachers: whether they acknowledge it or not, teachers have quite a bit of potential to guide a nd influence a teen's life; remember that what may seem just like 'a day or two' of troubles can appear to a troubled kid as a lengthy dilemma. Parents: As Captain Obvious, i'll state it - "Talk to your kids ! Have a damned good relationship with them, and do as much as you can [without spoiling the child] to understand their teenage world that they live in is probably much different than yours was... Regards, will. EDIT: After reading his newgrounds profile, one of his favorite films was 'elephant' - an indie film about 2 boys in high school who were loners, picked on; went on a school shooting and then killed themselves. [released about a year or two ago....][i rented once from the library, an ok film] __________________ currently reading: currently playing : Last edited by keyshawn; 03-24-2005 at 08:19 PM..

03-25-2005, 07:31 AM	#57 (permalink)
sailor beauty in the breakdown Location: Chapel Hill, NC	OK... Misunderstood... Maybe. And that sucks. But there is a difference between being misunderstood and shooting up a school. I dont care how many people make fun of you, tease you, misunderstand you, whatever--he still shot up a school, and thats unexcusable, no matter what the circumstances. __________________ "Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws." --Plato

03-25-2005, 11:35 AM	#58 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	I wonder why some kids today are so inclined to go off the deep end? Is there so much more pressure on kids today? Back in the 60's we would get rid of our pent up anger with sex, drugs, beer and rock 'n' roll. Aren't these things good enough for today's generation? Any kid who carried a gun was considered a wimp.