munchen

I can't comment on being overweight but with regards to chronic back pain, feel your pain. I had a very bad back injury and i've been rehabing it for close to 20 months. Sorry, but you cannot use this as an excuse. You'll never get better and you will slide farther and farther away from health. I was the same way. I couldn't do anything, even 10 minutes on a stationary bike would be too painful and leave me with extra pain for days. My back hurt 24/7 and I had massive headaches. So i gave up excersise and got depressed. One day i just decided to do something about it. I resumed my physio and posture excersises but nothing would take because of my inactivity. So I started to go for walks at night, very slow and controlled walks where i tried to hold my posture and work the correct muscles. It started to help and I would go for longer walks. I did this every day for two months. Over time my back strenght improved and my pain and headaches went down considerably. I'm still rehabing but I can do things without pain now and my life has improved exponentially. I feel normal again and am having fun living my life again. It sucks and its unbelievably hard but you have take things in your own hands if you want to get better. Sure its an excuse but the your only excusing yourself from becoming happier and healthier.

__________________
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pocon1

^^^^^^
See, now that is someone who worked to make a difference in their own life. That I can respect.

Lockjaw

I'm overweight(but I'm on a diet and excercise program to correct that and meeting with good results). Most of my family is overweight. Many of them well into morbidly obese. Sorry but while some of this is true about some people can't help being fat unless you have a thyroid problem you can help it. Seriously every person that I know that is overweight are overweight because they either A) Eat too much, B) don't get enough excercise, C) Both. If you are ok with being fat. Fine. But people have no way to distinguish you the person that's "not to blame" for being big with those that are.

And as far as not being able to tell someone's health just by looking at them....well if they weigh 400 lbs or so it's a good bet they either have or will develop serious health issues. Any doctor will tell you this. Even as a general rule even if a person is in generally good health but they are "obese" their doctors will try to get them to lose weight.

Sigh...I understand where the original poster was coming from but I do wonder if it's more of an issue of heightened sensitivity. I was teased and made fun of as a kid and I still don't feel very confident around crowds at times but I came to the realization that I can't change the world but I CAN change myself. If you can't or won't change yourself,for whatever reason, don't expect other people to change to accomodate you.
That's simply is not how this world tends to work. And considering what I know what most people that are overweight endure the "fat comments" on TFP are basically non-existant from what I've seen in my few months here. The worst that I've seen is on the TB and usually most every post saying "too fat" or something is defeated by 10 more saying they like it. Personally I'm one of them.

degrawj

like other people have already mentioned, i also haven't noticed a weight prejudice here on TFP. but, i don't view every single thread, so that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. and like Halx said, if you are referring to comments and posts made on the titty board, that's a whole 'nother animal. while it's still frowned upon, appearance prejudices might appear more often than normal on the titty board.

i, for one, find larger women very attractive. while i can admire the beauty of a really skinny woman, i am very rarely sexually attracted to them. when i'm with a woman, i like to be able to feel them, and hold them, and not feel bone. like Bono has said, "Big girls are best!"

and if i happen to come across a comment that i feel is prejudice towards anything, i use the report this comment option to let a moderator know that i feel that particular post was not respectful. i encourage more people to do the same. however, i have only had to do this a couple of times.

alicat

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread.

As a couple people have pointed out, there are posts in this thread that are exactly what this thread is about and bring to bare the topic. As some have said, I should ignore the attitudes, which I will from now on. A few people have made assumptions about me (and overweight people in general) without knowing the first darn thing about me or my situation.

I am not complaining about being fat but about intolerance of people who are. My back pain is from a car accident not my weight, but, of corse my weight exaserbates it and it is an obsticle not an excuse. I said that exercise is my problem and physical activity is hard. I did not say I don't exercise, it has just been assumed, and rather bluntly, that I haven't taken responsibility for or action against my situation and that I am "whining" and looking for pity.

I have lost 50 lbs. in the past year and a couple months, even with my limitations. I do not call that "doing nothing about my problem". I see it as a great victory and being pro-active for my health. As for the calories I put in my mouth, I stated quite clearly that I eat healthily. I don't eat breakfast which isin't great for my metabolism, but for whatever reason, I can't keep food down in the morning (nothing medically wrong). I am not asking for sympathy from anyone.

Sorry Mods, I didn't mean to imply that there are deliberate "insults" from anyone towards another member, that would not be tolerated. It is the random comments like (made-up example), "so my buddies and me were in the bar and this fat chick asked me to dance", that no one seems to blink at that bother me. Of corse I'm sensitive to this because of my situation but not at all overly so. It just bothers me that a human being is reduced to "a fat chick" as if they are not a person but something repugnant and not worthy of respect.

I don't know any of you beyond written words on my screen. And yet those words are representative of human beings that I share this world with and that contribute to my existance. It's akin to someone who is in a wheelchair, missing a leg, reading someone casually saying something about a "gimp". It would not be directly referring to you but would still be derrogatory and callous about your condition (not meaning to imply being overweight is the same as being physically handi-capped at all).

Lastly, while I find the female body beautiful, i do not frequent the Titty Board as some have asked. And Exhibition is the very last place on the TFP that would ever have negative comments about someone's body or weight, and maybe one day I will feel secure enough to post there. I probably should have thought more before talking about posting there as it is mature and respectful members that seem to have access (or quite possibly, only they are tolerated!).

Again, thanks to everyone who contributed to this discussion.

Ali

Edit: I forgot to say; most of the incidences of "fat" comments are (like stated above) certainly not worthy of reporting to the Mods. However, I couldn't help but say something about the accumulation of comments I see that still botherd me...

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"You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late."--Ralph Waldo Emerson

Lasereth

I noticed it too. That's really the only reason I commented in this thread. You never asked for sympathy or whined about not being able to lose weight -- you simply wanted to know why others can't accept it. It's interesting to see how many people took the thread into "fat people are lazy" mode.

-Lasereth

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bing bing

People are just lazy when giving descriptions and if someone's obese, of course it's the first thing you notice about them. If she had no teeth, would saying a "toothless chick asked me to dance" be just as derogatory? Or if she was tall, would it be wrong to say that she's a tall chick?

Cowman

Im sorry, but you DON'T eat "healthily". Eating healthily means EATING breakfast, it means EATING at a calorie deficit (if you want to lose weight), it means EATING 5-6 times a day, it means EATING a lot of protein and good fats and good carbs. You're not doing that, you're eating 1 meal a day made up of veggies and thinking thats healthy, and as a result your body has reacted negatively. If you continue to lose weight, you will be losing muscle and your body will feel and look worse.

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You don't like my point of view..but im insane

ShaniFaye

Im overweight, I dont give a shit what anybody thinks......never have. I feel no need to explain to those kinds of people that mine is a hormone problem, its really no bodies business but mine and my doctors what the problem is, but I do agree that I have read a many posts like what alicat mentioned.

I chalk it up to intolerance and ignore it because I have no desire to associate with that kind of stuff. I myself dont really care for skinny guys...but if I meet one I dont discount him because of that, and I dont say....ooohh you look unhealthy to me go eat a sandwhich or two....I only discount people for their personalities

Alicat, congrats on what you've accomplished so far.....as long as you're happy thats what is important

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Strange Famous

Perhaps it might be the case that I am not overly concerned about your acceptance of me in the first place? Certainly, my own feeling would be that anyone who would be judgemental to the extent of "not accepting" someone who is overweight would probably be rather superficial, and would not be someone I would be especially interested in relating to, and would also be rather unlikely to offer an insight or perception of life that I would find interesting.

Fundamentally, you are correct that people are overweight because they consume more calories than they burn - but there can be medical, social, and environmental causes. And perhaps some people dont choose to conform to your view of what they should be. if someone is healthy and happy, then it really doesnt matter if they are considered overweight. if they are unhealthy and/or unhappy - then of course your negative comments can be damaging to some people.

For myself, I dont really think that you should be prevented from saying it, but my opinion is that the fact of your statement reflects far more badly on you than the argument you make reflects badly on me,

I think what the poster who started the thread is true to some extent. Comments about overweight people can be made - in society, not especially here - and are seen as more acceptable as a negative comment about sexuality, ethnicity, or gender would be.

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for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

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Carno

Yes, but being overweight is not healthy.

roachboy

i haven't seen very much of this kind of attitude here--for many years, i was about 150-200 lbs. overweight--i lost much of it along the way (somehow--i think stopping drinking and cutting out all processed foods account for most of it in my case--but i was fortunate in that my genetic predisposition to put on weight was not correlated with a metabolism that made loosing it difficult to impossible--but i only discovered this along the way--i thought for years that my weight simply was as it was--so my situation is particular)---i remain quite sensitive about this kind of discrimination based on conventional body-image notions.
i would run into it all the time, in contexts where it was not really spoken aloud, like clothing stores where i could not find anything that fit---in "large size" clothing outlets where the operative assumption seemed to be that if you were this size, you did not need clothing that was designed well or that was made from good fabric---
so i carry what is i guess a hyperawareness of this kind of thing around with me---and i would react to it if i saw it here.

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spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

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martinguerre

so are a lot of things. everyone of us here has vices...show some respect. she never asked for advice, sympathy, or anything like that. she asked for respect. and i think we're all capable of that, right?

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-John 3:16

raeanna74

I had personally not been aware of many derogatory posts about fat, obese, or overweight people. There have been comments describing some overweight people who are lazy and it seems to be a contributor to their lack of good health. I have not seem personal attacks on those members who are overweight. My own hubby isn't his perfect weight. He and I have both posted in the Exhibition Forum and I don't recall either of us receiving putdowns or negative comments at all. From they way I understand it - derogatory comments in that forum at least are usually removed by the mods.

Go ahead and post - something simple. We'll be glad to say "hi". Promise - I won't complain.

I have seem some people who are/have been overweight who do nothing to loose it or do all the wrong things. For example my mother continues to gain weight. She says she goes for walks every day but in reality she goes for a very slow, short walk perhaps once a week. She always says she's on a diet. She's said that for almost as long as I can remember. She'll deny herself all day long and then pig out on chocolate, or icecream at the end of the day. She eats junk when she thinks no one is watching. She also had high blood pressure and arthritis at this point but refuses to take any meds saying that when she looses weight things will get better. All the while she's making things worse because she's either so tired or her joints hurt to much to be active. She could change her way of thinking and her lifestyle but she stubbornly refuses to accept any help even from blood pressure meds (the Dr's have been telling her to take it for 2 years).

Then there's 2 other people that I know of who have some medical problems. One of which has a muscle disease that causes the muscles to atrophy. Without muscle tone they cannot burn much fat. In order for them to create a calorie deficit they were almost nearly have to take only suppliments and starve themselves of real food. I've seen how they eat and I know what they keep in their cupboards. They eat fresh salads for breakfast lunch and supper and an occasionally broiled chicken breast. There's almost nothing they can do at this point. Another person who has to take a certain medication that as a side effect slows their metabolism. Their calorie deficit dispite their muscle tone would have to be so great they they also would nearly have to eat celery for breakfast lunch and supper to loose any weight.

Some people can and some can't. The people who whine (like my mom) about their weight gain but refuse any help and refuse to change their lifestyle to loose any weight - those are the portion of the overweight population that irritate me.

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paulskinback

I have to admit that I personally haven't seen any posts regarding abuse of the obese (that sounds quite poetic I might add)

I think that if you are looking out for something that you are conscious of, then you will always find it. I personally hate all the scumbag kids that live in my town and the surrounding areas ~(we refer to them as chavs or pikeys) and as I can't stand them, I always notice them and what they're doing.

You shouldn't worry about what you weigh unless it is affecting your health, judging by your post you are well educated and opinionated and that my friend is all that counts.

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la petite moi

This thread bothers me. Generally, on the Exhibition board, I notice that people are overly nice about looks. Even if the subject is overweight, people comment on how beautiful he/she is. I reall youy haven't seen any rude comments on weight around the TFP, except for a couple threads made by young, immature guys that are really insensitive.

rat

I think I'll take this thread from a completely different angle from someone else--alcoholism.

I personally, am an alcoholic. I say this in all seriousness, and there are a few members that followed my journal closely last year as I spiraled down into the depths of drinking to the point of drunkeness or alcohol poisoning 7 days a week. I drank to the extent that my body phyiscally could not heal itself at a reasonable rate, and there are scars from injuries that would have healed in a couple of days when I was younger (and I'm only 21). Recently, I've been getting some serious alcohol abuse counseling, and I'm turning alot of my life around. Been completely dry for 20 days at this point, and every day is a different type of struggle from the last.

That background is meant to emphasize two points: genetic/behaviorial predisposition and a common acceptance of derogatory terms for unmentionable classes of people.

First off, I have two great-uncles that physically drank themselves to death on my dad's side, a grandfather that died in august that drank every day for the better part of 50 years, two alcoholic uncles on my mom's side. Both sides of my family have a genetic predisposition to alcoholism and growing up around people that drank all the time made social drunkenness acceptable in my mind because I was used to seeing it--providing me a behaviorial predisposition to drunkenness to go with the genetic. I don't hide behind either one of those reasons for my drinking. I drank because it numbed the world and thus allowed me to get through each day. I hated various aspects of my life from the tanked relationship I lost with a girl I almost got engaged to, all the way to my dad's dad dying of cancer in august. My whole world came crashing down around my ears, and I drank. But I sought help, and it's altered my behavior to the point where I can look at the fridge full of my roommate's beer and not even want one. I can walk through my favorite bars across the street from campus and spend four hours drinking sodas while all my old drinking buddies get drunk and my friends that bartend talk to me. And I'm slowly getting healthier, my body is responding in a positive fashion, and I'm growing less irritable as withdrawal leaves. But it took professional help, and it hasn't been easier. So even a genetic component to a lifestyle can be combatted with the proper assistance.

On to the second portion--the latent prejudice and attitudes towards socially undesirable classes. No one's proud of their alcoholic uncle. No one's proud of the cousin that drinks himself under the table 6 nights a week. No one likes living with a roommate that only comes home to pass out after getting roaring drunk. At the same time, there's a misperception in society about what constitutes alcoholism. My roommate knows I'm in abuse counseling, and his insensitive ass constantly refers to himself as an alcoholic when he's anything but. Just because he gets wasted at the parties we go to, or drinks soically when we have people over, he thinks it's hilarious to call himself an alcoholic. And it fucking pisses me off. Those of us who do have a disease to fight don't exactly enjoy people who make light of it. To me, it's like someone running through a cancer ward cracking jokes about melanoma because they got a tan at the beach. It's something people have become socially desensitized because alcoholics aren't something that people publically acknowledge in a positive light--and therefore, it's ok to make fun of them. At the same time no one I've ever met says "Hey, I've got this morbidly obese friend of mine I'd like to introduce you to, I think y'all would look great together!" Here in my dorm, the term is DUFF--Designated Ugly/Fat Friend--when a cute girl comes by with a friend that's not as attractive physically. And everyone thinks it's ok to do it. My buddy Ben has an asian friend named Anna that is a larger girl but still beautiful--my roommate (who is 5'7" 365lbs himself) calls her "Fasian" for 'Fat Asian." I think having an extremely obese person in our dorm that will call girls fat unconsciously reinforces to the rest of us that it's ok to act in a negative manner to large women.

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*Nikki*

You really have the right attitude and are an example for all. The thing I remember most about seeing your pictures here on the TFP are nothing at all weight related. I remember thinking what an awesome personality you had and how that was very apparent in even photographs!!

I think everyone here is generally pretty understanding of other people's situations. Whenever I catch someone saying something really inappropriate on whatever level, they are dealt with.

I think that anyone who feels that they are being singled out, by weight, or looks, or race, or whatever needs to let us know what is going on. Sometimes if it is not an issue that we (MODS) are personally involved in, we might overlook it.

The bottom line is no one should feel uncomfortable here.

jorgelito

rat,

That was an eloquent and eye-opening post especially your last paragraph. Thank you for pointing out another perspective that is oft-missed. Made me think.

Good luck with your personal struggle.

KungFuGuy

...including yourself.


meaning, if a person accepts the things he/she doesn't like about him/herself, changing that thing can become nearly impossible. like my alcholic mother who doesn't see her alcoholism as a problem. hence, she makes no effort to fix it, despite all of our effort.

Demeter

I know I could lose a few pounds, and I have gone up & down for years. I could cry me a river over not being 'perfect'...but who is. I accept I need to push a little bit every day to better myself, and if I succeed, kudos to me, and if things don't go as I planned, tomorrows another day. I'm still a beautiful loving person. And I have lost weight many times for the wrong reasons. Now I work on it for me, and although its slower going than more drastic approaches I've tried before, I now feel comfortable in my own skin.

KungFuGuy

demeter, i wasn't really referring to you specifically, but a more general you meaning everyone. sorry if it sounded that way.

i agree, a person does have to want to change themselves for the right reasons. in the end that will probably facilitate the positive change that much easier.

alicat

Cowman: Are you a nutritionist? Your post sounds to me like an amalgam of every diet book on the market currently. Who said I only eat veggies? I said that we eat alot of tomatoes, garlic and olive oil, not that that's all we eat. They are accompaniments to lean meats like Talapia, ground Sirloin, shrimp, chicken or turkey breast. We prefer Italian or "mediterranean" dishes, of which the aforementioned ingredients play a big part in.

I did not say I eat one meal a day, I said I eat 1 1/2 meals a day, which was a slip on my part. My family has always called lunch a "half" meal because breakfast and dinner were the main meals of the day. You load up in the morning, sate your appetite midday and then satisfy your hunger in the evening. Can you tell me what the sense is in eating breakfast only to ralph it up 15 minutes later? No nutrients are being absorbed and I have to deal with being sick every morning. No thank you, I gave up on breakfast when this started a couple of years ago (and I love the "typical" breakfast foods, whether it's bacon, oatmeal, cereal, bagels, eggs, yogurt, etc.). Do you know something my doctor doesn't that would allow me to keep food down in the morning? I can't eat breakfast but I eat lunch (the 1/2 meal but for me is a full meal) and dinner.

My hubby has the same thing happen to him if he eats later than 9 at night and he is as thin as a rail and healthy. I've had tests, all normal. I know what a calorie deficit is. I use a computer program everyday to track my fat intake, calorie intake, calories burned, etc.... I have been excercising (as previously stated) to the best of my ability and I think losing 50 lbs. in a healthy amount of time is an accomplishment. I know that muscle burns more calories than fat, and no, I am not losing, but gaining muscle. Why are you so eager to point a finger at me without knowing anything factual and not paying attention to what I've said?

Shani: Thank you for your perspective, I've been working long and hard to gain the same. I used to be thin and considered beautiful and to have a "kick ass" body. That was quite a few years ago and if my hubby loves me the way I am, then I am happy. To be frankly honest though, I don't think fat is attractive. Neither do I think "Hollywood" thin is attractive. Someone like Marylin Monroe or (the old "Titanic") Kate Winslet are the ideal to me. Not thin and not too overweight. I have never been the subject of public descrimination for which I should be (I was thinking "grateful", but why should I feel grateful because of common courtesy?) content with?!. I truely hope I can get to the place you are one day where inconsiderate peoples comments (who shouldn't matter) don't matter. You rule girl!!!

Rat: I don't know what to say but, wow, and thank you for sharing! I too have had close family members die from alcoholism, although thankfully I haven't succombed to the disease myself. I find myself chasened that this is another sect of society that is prejudiced against that I hadn't thought about and should have. I looked it up and approximately 45% of people in the U.S. meet the criteria for alcoholism (shocking really!). Given that some 60+% suffer from obesity, I was surprised that alcoholism isin't much farther down the charts as far as reasons for death in the U.S..

Please, if anyone is going to post something accusitory towards me, read the entire thread (or at least my posts) and absorb what I've said (between the lines if need be) before calling me on something I've already addressed. I would appreciate it.

Ali

__________________
'Beware the Jabberwock, my son! The jaws that bite, the claws that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun, The frumious Bandersnatch!'--Jabberwocky, Lewis Carroll

"You cannot do a kindness too soon because you never know how soon it will be too late."--Ralph Waldo Emerson

rat

Addendum: want to add something that may not be clear in my first post. I don't make any excuses for the reasons I drank--be they my surroundings or genetics. Whether one is predisposed to drink or not, it's their personal decision to pick up the bottle, and their personal choice to find the bottom of it. I take full responsibility for my previous habits, and it took a lot to get to that point. I could come up with any of a dozen reasons to drink from "Happy Monday!" to "She left me"--the point was finding reasons not to drink. Hell, they were excuses to drink, not reasons to. I drank to remember, I drank to forget. I drank to memories and I drank from memories. The point was simply that I prefered to drink myself to idiocy rather than deal with my problems like a man--which lead to self-loathing and a greater tendency to drink rather than fix things. I am an alcoholic, I have been physically depenedent on alcohol, and I have chosen to eliminate the behavior that those two things inspire. And trust me, no matter how many times you hear it, you'll never understand it unless you've gone through it--withdrawal is a bitch. When your body becomes physically depenedent on a substance, it's tougher than hell to get off of. But it's usually worth your time to do so (unless it's sustenance or water )

__________________

bing bing

When you work in the fast food industry and see morbidly obese individuals guzzle down large cups of coke day after day, it's hard not to stereotype and as a result, be prejudiced.

KinkyKiwi

i havent really seen anyone say bad stuff about over weight people here...i for one respect a 100 pound person as much as a 300 pound person as long as they respect themselves and the people around them... i truly believe that beauty comes from the inside and that the thinnest girl/guy with perfect bone structure could be the most ugly person ever... oh and personally i think shani faye is stunning in every way

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Play with each other. Play with yourselves. Just don't play with the squirrels, they bite.

roachboy

revision of an earlier post:

i had not seen prejudice relative to weight on tfp until i started reading through this thread.

obviously not from everyone--but in some cases above, it is there.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

KinkyKiwi

there are a few morons in every bunch i suppose..even one as wonderful as the tfp

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Some mornings, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
Play with each other. Play with yourselves. Just don't play with the squirrels, they bite.

bing bing

Everyone's prejudiced in at least some respects, no matter how hard they try to fight it. I guess we're all morons.

skier

I am intolerant about overweight girls. It's just who I am. I'm a skinny guy, and I like how skinny girls look. I'm not the only one who finds skinny girls attractive either. A large portion of society views obesity as an undesirable trait. It's also one that is immediately apparant during first impressions. It's a trait I can weed out easily and quickly when looking for a significant other. Since it is an immediate and visual characteristic, it's often used to describe someone. "the fat chick". Other traits, like ambition, honesty, moral strength, caring, or empathy, are harder to uncover and they take time.

People that discriminate based on physical characteristics are often stereotyped as "shallow". But we all do so to different degrees. We have an ideal physical image of the perfect girl (or guy) in our minds. The closer they are to that ideal, the more attractive they are to us. We go after the ideal. Why would you talk to the overweight girl, hoping her personality is good (this is for those who find obesity unattractive. If you like the cushin, by all means, go for it) when the skinny girl you're attracted to is sitting just across from her, and has the same/better chance of having a great personality as well?

And you know what? You could be the most fantastic person in the world, and if I talked to you it would be quickly apparant that your wonderful personality shines like a beacon of awesomeness. We could be GREAT friends, and I wouldn't even care in the least bit about your weight. But. I still wouldn't find you physically attractive, and we would never have more than a friendship. That's just who I am, and it would be stupid to fake interest because i'm worried about what other people may think of me.


In general terms however, while I see obesity as a negative trait, there are SO many things more important about a person than their weight. It's a drop in the pond. The only real importance that weight has on how I judge a person is what it might imply about their character- the lazy, self-indulgent stereotype. Which you can usually figure out the veractiy of in 5 minutes of chat. Which really does nothing for the first impression, but if you're a good person, i'll forget all about it.

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Sweetpea

Martinguerre makes a fantastic point . . .

Why did everyone jump in on this thread and make assumptions . . . it's none of your business! All this member was asking for was for every tfp member to rememeber to be respectful in our comments . . . a worthy thing to ask for.

All ppl are beautiful. All sizes, shapes, colors . . . i give respect to EVERYONE . . .
Respect should be given on tfp . . . WHATEVER their choices are . . . WHATEVER their lifestyles . . . WHATEVER their beliefs . . . We;re here to have a meeting of the minds . . . not judge.

Let's all just remember to be respectful . . . as i know we all are trying our best to be . . . being respectful is what makes this such a great community

Sweetpea

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tres

hmm.. Interesting..... while yes, fat is the last accepted predjuice - proof to the fact, 100 kindergarden children were asked if they would rather be fat and smart or or skinny and stupid, and they all picked skinny and stupid. KINDERGARDEN!!!

Personally... I look down and could certainly use to lose a few. I personally never have seen overly predjucial comments about fat people here..

I have heard people describe and talk about "fat messes" and it's my opinion that they arent referrring to the people that carry some extra pounds. More referring to the Fat messes that sit around and do nothing, eat their live away on the couch, all the while complaining about how overweight they are while they walk around the streets in their spandex thinking it makes them look thinner.

so, if you carry some extra pounds, or its a medical complication, fine! I agree people will judge by what they see, not knowing you may have a medical issue, and that IS a problem that will never go away. I don't think you are a "fat mess" if you try. Its great that you try to eat healthy, and do the right thing, if a medical problem prohibits you from losing weight, do something else. I have bad knees, so I do alot of abdominal and arm training. Good luck.

Lebell

Another example.

If you are fat, you need "forgiving". If you are skinny, you do not.

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ShaniFaye

ahahahaha Lebell...the person I need forgivness for, for being overweight is NOT somebody I want to know

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Stiltzkin

Welp, I'm like Karl Marx. Yes! I admit it! I believe the value of a person is in their work. If you work, you are valuable, to me. If you do not work, then you are worthless to me. Building on Lebell's last post: in my book, people who do not work need to be forgiven IF they have a legitimate reason for not working. By the way, I am about 40lbs over weight. A few months ago I was 50lbs over weight. What's my point? IF you can change something you don't like about yourself, then do it. If you can't, then you can't, and that is that. However, judgment of other people is a human defense mechanism; you can't just automatically trust everyone. I'll stop now.

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skier

well, duh. Would you want to get to know people that are lazy and self-indulgent on a more personal level? This is the "fat" stereotype. Without catagorizing people based on their characteristics, we couldn't function in society. Every decision would be agonizingly long and presumably useless by the time the decision was finally made. It's the same reason we discriminate if someone is dressed slobbily, or has lots of piercings/tattoos. It's the image that society has constructed for you, and no matter your opinion on it, it's just something you have to live with.

On the opposite side of the spectrum, I'm sure lots of people when they see a morbidly skinny guy make judgements on his character because of it. (like nerdy, unconfident, etc.)

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flstf

Advice from Sly and the Family Stone

alicat

I agree that as humans, we make automatic assumtions based on our first impressions of people, that does not make them correct though.

Skier: You said a large percentage of society views being overweight as "undesirable". That doesn't mesh with the numbers. Given that nearly two-thirds of the U.S. is overweight, I'm curious, are you saying that most (or close to, two-thirds) of the people in the U.S. find themselves and the majority of other people "undesirable"?

I agree physical attractiveness is important, and is usually the first thing that brings two people together (um, "attract"). However, as you said:

Do you realize how silly (IMHO) this sounds? You're basically saying that you judge a person on how they look first and everything else that makes up a person comes second.


Again, as I said before in this thread, I am the last person to command you to find fat attractive. I don't know if I'd want you for a friend (the only role I'd qualify for, to you) though, if you saw me as less of a human being simply because I have some extra padding.

Sooo... I might have a wonderful personality, in which case, you wouldn't care about my weight. Which, I think might be agreed upon, you meant as long as I'm overweight, then my weight would become a problem. And since I'm overweight, I probably meet the stereotype of a lazy person (nevermind everything I've said about myself in this thread to the contrary). I am neither lazy nor self-indulgent (far from it, I put almost everyone else before myself as a lot of women do).

I realize that stereotypes exist because they have some basis in reality. But perhaps some of the problems in today's societie's exist because we may have put too much merit into them? A thought.

Ali

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Frowning Budah

Amen. I like reading I like playing on the computer. I enjoy listening to music. Too bad those things don't burn calories, but that is the way it is.

I am not looking for sympathy, but I don't expect to be condemned because my life choices don't happened to match yours.

skier

No, i'm not saying that. I said "a large portion". I didn't say "nearly all" or even "majority". I can't back up that statement with a hard statistic. It's a statement based on my observations on people's behavior over my lifetime; that a lot of people find skinner people attractive, even if they themselves are obese.

I think you've confused importance with chronological order.
This was the context it was in, and I further explained how important I felt obesity was with my last paragraph-
"there are SO many things more important about a person than their weight. It's a drop in the pond."
I do judge people on how they look first. So does everyone else. I don't put much weight in that judgement because they are just physical characteristics- and I imagine most people think the same. And afterwards, I usually get a chance to talk to them and find out the important characteristics of the person.

Come on, this is totally inflammatory. The issue we're talking about here is how obesity affects predjudices and what impression it gives to others- my argument is focused on that (small) aspect. Please don't think that this is an overriding philosophy that dictates my every action and whim. You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

again. It's not a problem. Gross obesity is just an aspect of the body that I would find undesirable in a mate.

That's great for you. My post wasn't aimed at you, but ok. Also, narcissism and self-indulgence are not the same thing. You can be very selfless and still self-indulge. This isn't really relevant to the topic though.

I'm just curious as to how you would make quick judgements about people and situations when you've not had a chance to talk to everyone and figure out what kind of people they are. We need to put weight and merit into stereotypes (catagories) to provide the best solution to problems in which we lack information.

I'd just like to add something new as well. When I say "fat" or "skinny" where is the line between these two sides of the spectrum? 30lbs. overweight? 40? 60? 80? 160? Just as extreme skinniness is unattractive to most people (mmm ribcage...) the point at which obesity becomes unattractive differs from person to person.

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"Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim