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Old 02-01-2005, 10:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Women told, 'Work in Brothel, Or Else"

I found this very interesting.

Quote:
Women told, 'Work
in brothel, or else'
German law forces out-of-work females
to take sex jobs or lose unemployment
Posted: January 30, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern


© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

A provision in the German welfare system is forcing out-of-work women to chose between taking jobs in the sex industry or losing their unemployment benefits.

Once one of the most generous systems in Europe, Germany's unemployment program has been reformed to require those out of work to take jobs for which they are qualified, or lose benefits. In the case of women, females below the age of 55 who have been out of work for a year or more must take any available job offered.

The full legalization of prostitution two years ago – with brothel owners now paying taxes and employee health insurance – has created an awkward situation at German job centers where employers can access the official government database of those seeking work, reports the London Telegraph.

One 25-year-old waitress, an unemployed information technology professional, had indicated a willingness to work in a bar at night and had past experience working in a cafe. A potential employer, finding her profile promising, contacted the job center about hiring her. Only after the young woman called to inquire about the job did she learn the employer was a brothel. When she refused the position, she was threatened with cuts to her unemployment benefits.

Centers that do not penalize job seekers who refuse offered positions are subject to lawsuits by the employers.

"There is now nothing in the law to stop women from being sent into the sex industry," says Merchthild Garweg, a Hamburg lawyer. "The new regulations say that working in the sex industry is not immoral any more, and so jobs cannot be turned down without a risk to benefits."

Garweg notes that women who have past experience as telemarketers or call service workers have been offered positions with telephone-sex services. New laws permit sex-oriented employers to advertise in the job centers and provide for the suing of job centers that refuse to accept their ads.

When the German government crafted the recent welfare reforms, brothels were initially considered for exclusion, but they were believed too difficult to distinguish from bars. Their inquiries for potential workers are treated no differently than those from grocery stores or schools.

"Why shouldn't I look for employees through the job center when I pay my taxes just like anybody else?" asked one central Berlin brothel owner who has been using the local database to find prospective workers.

The German experience closely follows that of the Netherlands, according to the Coalition Against Trafficking in Women. Following the 2000 legalization of prostitution by the Dutch and the registration of prostitutes, brothels began using official job centers to find new employees.

Garwig believes pressure on job centers to meet employment targets is only going to make the current situation worse.

"They are already prepared to push women into jobs related to sexual services, but which don't count as prostitution," she says.

"Now that prostitution is no longer considered by the law to be immoral, there is really nothing but the goodwill of the job centers to stop them from pushing women into jobs they don't want to do."

Last year, the German federal government announced that it would be fining employers that failed to hire trainees – a measure to be applied to brothels as well as other employers. Brothels failing to hire one apprentice for every 15 employees will be fined for failing to promote the sex industry.

Germany legalized prostitution in 2002 in the belief it would slow down the trafficking in women and reduce the role of organized crime in the profession. Instead, government is expanding the sex industry by guaranteeing a steady stream of new recruits, some willing and some not.
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42615

Now that is a weird combination of laws.
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Old 02-01-2005, 11:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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That is government supported rape. I mean "WHAT THE FUCK?"

Go into the sex industry or lose unemployment? I see a lot of women emmigrating from Germany in the next few years, because that is just fucked up. Either that or they're going to have to change that law.

Prostitution may not be wrong, but forcing women into it is.

Although after reading it a little more closely, I'm wondering why this is only becoming a problem now, if it's been in effect for two years?
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Old 02-02-2005, 01:04 AM   #3 (permalink)
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ouch. i agree, i have no problems with prostitution if the woman (or man) chooses to be involved with it. however, forcing someone is a totally different thing. while i have no objections to legalized prostitution, i respect that others do (for whatever reasons).
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Old 02-02-2005, 02:10 AM   #4 (permalink)
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They need to be out of work for a year or more before they need to take any job offered. If they've been out of work for a year or more chances are good that they haven't been looking at all, and are just sucking up the free money. This article could just as easily read "women told, "work at burger king, or else". If they don't want to work in the sex industry they could try to find another job, or just not take money from the government. No one is forcing them to take the money from the government.
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Old 02-02-2005, 06:38 AM   #5 (permalink)
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The brothels and businesses in the sex industry are really expoliting this loophoop in more ways than one. Job Centers that refuse to help the brothels recruit are aslo being sued for discrimination and stuff. It is really creating a big mess in Germany. I would imagine that the government will admend the laws before this gets too out of hand.
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Old 02-02-2005, 06:39 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Being that this is happening in Germany, it does not surprise me. Prostitution is already a large source of income there.
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Old 02-02-2005, 06:45 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I had the impression the authorities are looking at ways to fix this, not that they support the idea that women should be forced into the sex industry. I'm sure that would be considered an outrage over there just as it is here. They just need to exclude that type of work from the requirement, that's all.
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Old 02-02-2005, 07:02 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Brothels failing to hire one apprentice for every 15 employees will be fined for failing to promote the sex industry.
Tries to imagine an apprentice in a brothel... This would be funny if it wasn't so horrid. Bravo to Germany for having the guts to legalize prostitution. But treating it like any other government program and forcing women to consider work in the so-called "sex industry", that is wrong.
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Old 02-02-2005, 07:08 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Wow, talk about the law of unintended consequences...

It does sound like the government wanted to avoid this in the first place (wanting to exempt brothels from the rule), and are now having to figure out a way to remedy this. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with.
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Old 02-02-2005, 07:22 AM   #10 (permalink)
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The german "Arbeitsamt" (job center) does not offer jobs as prostitutes. Leagally it coud do so, but AFAIK the centers agreed not to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Nikki*
Being that this is happening in Germany, it does not surprise me. Prostitution is already a large source of income there.
What? please define "large source of income"
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Old 02-02-2005, 08:36 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Note to self: Don't raise your daughter in Germany.
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Old 02-02-2005, 11:07 AM   #12 (permalink)
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So would an out-of-work married woman have to take a job in the industry? Also, the age limit of 55 is pretty high, to me at least. I favor legalized prostitution, but I don't see forcing people into a potentially high-risk job.
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Old 02-02-2005, 01:25 PM   #13 (permalink)
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There is no way any women are actually going to get forced into prostitution by the government if they aren't willing to do that kind of 'work,' it may help rid the German unemployment payrolls of a few leeches though. I bet lots of women will take other undersirable jobs now that they are being threatened with losing benefits or selling their bodies. Makes flipping burgers awfully enticing...
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Old 02-02-2005, 01:36 PM   #14 (permalink)
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While I agree that it sounds like the woman in question was being solicited as a prostitute, it doesn't actually say that anywhere. I think it would be pretty amusing if after all the fuss and worldwide news stories we find out that they wanted to hire her as a receptionist, or housekeeper, or bartender, etc.

Would that circumstance change your opinion? We all seem to more or less agree that it would be unconscionable to force some woman to become a prostitute. Suppose though, that she was not performing sexual functions. If her only objection was on the grounds that she was morally opposed to prostitution, would that justify her remaining on the unemployment roster?
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Old 02-02-2005, 01:47 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blaspheme
While I agree that it sounds like the woman in question was being solicited as a prostitute, it doesn't actually say that anywhere. I think it would be pretty amusing if after all the fuss and worldwide news stories we find out that they wanted to hire her as a receptionist, or housekeeper, or bartender, etc.

Would that circumstance change your opinion? We all seem to more or less agree that it would be unconscionable to force some woman to become a prostitute. Suppose though, that she was not performing sexual functions. If her only objection was on the grounds that she was morally opposed to prostitution, would that justify her remaining on the unemployment roster?
Wow...talk about becareful of what you wish for. Why don't they just cut them off after a year of unemployment? No forcing anybody into doing anything they don't want to do and you get rid of your leeches every year.

I don't know all the details but yeah I suppose if she is morally against it she should just take the hit without the unemployement. If you are willing to leech off the government you have to play by their rules. Period.
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Old 02-02-2005, 01:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Ooohhh just thought of something else. What if all available jobs were in the military or something. Let's say you put in your profile you wouldn't be adverse to working outside and on assignment for several months at a time. Could the government "draft" you in that manner?
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Old 02-02-2005, 03:03 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacifier
What? please define "large source of income"
Well last time I was in Germany there was a ton of prostitutes. We could not walk a block without being approached by half a dozen. Seems to me this qualifies as a large source of income for these women. As we were not takers of their goods, I saw many men who were.

Furthermore, they also get paid for stripping and flashing on the street as well.
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Old 02-03-2005, 08:31 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Nikki*
Well last time I was in Germany there was a ton of prostitutes. We could not walk a block without being approached by half a dozen.
Let me guess:
Hamburg Reeperbahn?
or Herbertstraße?

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Nikki*
Furthermore, they also get paid for stripping and flashing on the street as well.
Obviously, I live in the wrong part of Germany.

Let me repeat, there is currently no german woman that has been forced by the goverment to work as prostitute. The article above is a gross exaggeration
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Old 02-03-2005, 10:03 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I'm calling shananigans.
No way a government would pimp its women = rape. This sounds a little off somehow. No?
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Old 02-03-2005, 10:10 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Definitely rape. I see a clause being made somewhere pertaining to this, otherwise Germany is going to start slipping into an anti-humanitarian reputation.
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Old 02-03-2005, 10:34 AM   #21 (permalink)
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She still has a choice albiet not a pleasant one so IMO it isn't rape and it kind of belittles actual rape.
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Old 02-03-2005, 01:18 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Forcing or coercing a woman with monetary punishment to use her body is rape.
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Old 02-03-2005, 03:32 PM   #23 (permalink)
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You know this is one of those stories based upon entirely conjectural situations that come about because of a silly law or, in this case, unforeseen hypothetical circumstances that probably have no basis in fact.

I invite you to go to http://www.legal-forms-kit.com/legal...dumb-laws.html for some American examples.

Tell you what! Why don't I write an "Internet scoop" news article on how poor factory workers in South Dakota face jail for lying down and falling asleep. That is, if they work in a cheese factory.

I wonder how much journalistic kudos I'll get for that possibly Pulitzer Prize winning story?


Sheesh....


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Old 02-03-2005, 04:00 PM   #24 (permalink)
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wow, this is very scary......
I hope the german government stops this !!!!!
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Old 02-03-2005, 04:31 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacifier
Let me guess:
Hamburg Reeperbahn?
or Herbertstraße?
Hamburg
Deggendorf

Were the most populated with them from what I remember. Of couse this was in early 2002.
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Old 02-03-2005, 04:39 PM   #26 (permalink)
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this sounds a bit sketch.... but im always hesitant from sources im not used too. especially internet based sources...
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Old 02-04-2005, 12:21 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Nikki*
Hamburg
Deggendorf

Were the most populated with them from what I remember. Of couse this was in early 2002.
Well, Hamburg has of course the Reeperbahn, when you enter the red light district you will find prostitutes...
Deegendorf is small town in bavaria, I don't think that there are so many prostitutes?
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Old 02-04-2005, 11:48 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Look Pacifier I swear to you that there were prostitutes everywhere when I was in many parts of Europe INCLUDING bavaria. It sounds like you are trying to prove me wrong or something. Do I need to show you my passport stamps?? This is getting kinda of ridiculous.

I saw the prostitutes in those locations and others and that is all there is to it really.
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Old 02-04-2005, 12:30 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I'm just amazed. I live here, and i don't see prostitutes at every street corner.
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Old 02-04-2005, 12:48 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Hmm.

Nikki, did you negotiate prices?

Pacifier, have you tried propositioning random ladies on the street?

I mean, how can you really know! =)
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Old 02-04-2005, 02:14 PM   #31 (permalink)
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My boyfriend (at the time) was approached by a lot of the women. Some of the woman were just regular looking and we had no idea until we would talk to them. Of course many of them spoke English well. I was approached a couple of times while we were in Hamburg and I was actually quite flattered. The woman that call themselves prostitutes that I saw there were actually very attractive. Of course I did not participate in such behavior

You made a good point Yakk, sometimes you don't know until you ask!! It's not like they are carrying signs that say "I fuck for money".
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Old 02-05-2005, 11:10 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Nikki*
My boyfriend (at the time) was approached by a lot of the women. Some of the woman were just regular looking and we had no idea until we would talk to them. Of course many of them spoke English well. I was approached a couple of times while we were in Hamburg and I was actually quite flattered. The woman that call themselves prostitutes that I saw there were actually very attractive. Of course I did not participate in such behavior

You made a good point Yakk, sometimes you don't know until you ask!! It's not like they are carrying signs that say "I fuck for money".
Naw, signs wouldn't work. It would cover the produce!

They should use tatoos to label them! Maybe a letter, on their forehead?

Quote:
Forcing or coercing a woman with monetary punishment to use her body is rape.
Saying "I will give you 10,000$ if you have sex with him, and 0$ if you do not" isn't rape. Sexual harrassment at the worst.

While I don't agree with what happened, there is some justification for it.

If unemployment is intended as an absolute last resort for people who would otherwise be destitute, if someone of their own free will chooses not to support themselves in a legal manner, withdrawl of unemployment may be justified.

Remember, the "lose EI if you don't take a job" rule kicks in after 1 year of unemployment in Germany. How long does US unemployment last?

Is it worse to say "there is no way for you to get money, no matter what" than to say "you can get money, if there is no other way for you to get money"?

In the USA, that lady would not have any benefits at all, even if nobody had a job for her.
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Old 02-05-2005, 11:24 PM   #33 (permalink)
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It's a simple choice. You take the job we have for you, or you don't get UNEMPLOYMENT anymore. These are women without a job for OVER A YEAR. That's a long time. It may be a crappy alternative, but so's being destitute. And I don't even understand the rape thing- you do this work, we pay you... you don't do it, we don't pay you. There's no force or coercion anywhere in there. They have to decide if it's worth it, if they've turned down all the other options.
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Old 02-07-2005, 08:29 AM   #34 (permalink)
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To tell a woman that she will lose unemployment benefits and she must sell her cooch is sick.
"In the case of women, females below the age of 55 who have been out of work for a year or more must take any available job offered."

"Only after the young woman called to inquire about the job did she learn the employer was a brothel. When she refused the position, she was threatened with cuts to her unemployment benefits."

"Centers that do not penalize job seekers who refuse offered positions are subject to lawsuits by the employers."

How is that not coersion?
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Old 02-07-2005, 09:47 AM   #35 (permalink)
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That is wrong. How can the government do that to a person. I would hope that the German government would get some sense soon. Do they want to increase business at brothels and create more disease. What about unemployed guys? Is it the same for them there??
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Old 02-07-2005, 10:44 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Astrahl, if the government simply cut unemployment benefits to everyone after 1 year, would that be better or worse?

I don't know. =/ I do know that most people are reacting to this on a very emotional level.
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Old 02-07-2005, 09:14 PM   #37 (permalink)
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You're all missing the simple fact that this story has not been printed or published in any reliable news source. They took a hypothetical situation and blew it out of proportion.

Maybe I can put a simpler terms in a bigger font and bright colors

This did not happen

And once more in bigger, more eobnoxious letters so it can't be missed:

This aritlce is a lie

This article is a lie created to further WND's authors' personal crusade for absurd, antiquated sense of "morality."

Some examples of articles that have been written by WND authors:

-Creationism is real because the bible told me it is and the bible is never wrong because it's written in the thing that it's the word of God.

-We're not running out of oil because it's really a renewable resource that coulnt' have been formed teh way scientists say it was because the universe has only been around for 6000 years.


I'd also like to note that I've never seen an author on that site cite a source other than the bible or a Bush speech.

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Old 02-08-2005, 07:41 AM   #38 (permalink)
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I take your WND, and raise you a telegraph:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...30/wgerm30.xml

Quote:
Originally Posted by Telegraph
'If you don't take a job as a prostitute, we can stop your benefits'
By Clare Chapman
(Filed: 30/01/2005)

A 25-year-old waitress who turned down a job providing "sexual services'' at a brothel in Berlin faces possible cuts to her unemployment benefit under laws introduced this year.

Kindred spirits

Prostitution was legalised in Germany just over two years ago and brothel owners – who must pay tax and employee health insurance – were granted access to official databases of jobseekers.

The waitress, an unemployed information technology professional, had said that she was willing to work in a bar at night and had worked in a cafe.

She received a letter from the job centre telling her that an employer was interested in her "profile'' and that she should ring them. Only on doing so did the woman, who has not been identified for legal reasons, realise that she was calling a brothel.

Under Germany's welfare reforms, any woman under 55 who has been out of work for more than a year can be forced to take an available job – including in the sex industry – or lose her unemployment benefit. Last month German unemployment rose for the 11th consecutive month to 4.5 million, taking the number out of work to its highest since reunification in 1990.

The government had considered making brothels an exception on moral grounds, but decided that it would be too difficult to distinguish them from bars. As a result, job centres must treat employers looking for a prostitute in the same way as those looking for a dental nurse.

When the waitress looked into suing the job centre, she found out that it had not broken the law. Job centres that refuse to penalise people who turn down a job by cutting their benefits face legal action from the potential employer.

"There is now nothing in the law to stop women from being sent into the sex industry," said Merchthild Garweg, a lawyer from Hamburg who specialises in such cases. "The new regulations say that working in the sex industry is not immoral any more, and so jobs cannot be turned down without a risk to benefits."

Miss Garweg said that women who had worked in call centres had been offered jobs on telephone sex lines. At one job centre in the city of Gotha, a 23-year-old woman was told that she had to attend an interview as a "nude model", and should report back on the meeting. Employers in the sex industry can also advertise in job centres, a move that came into force this month. A job centre that refuses to accept the advertisement can be sued.

Tatiana Ulyanova, who owns a brothel in central Berlin, has been searching the online database of her local job centre for recruits.

"Why shouldn't I look for employees through the job centre when I pay my taxes just like anybody else?" said Miss Ulyanova.

Ulrich Kueperkoch wanted to open a brothel in Goerlitz, in former East Germany, but his local job centre withdrew his advertisement for 12 prostitutes, saying it would be impossible to find them.

Mr Kueperkoch said that he was confident of demand for a brothel in the area and planned to take a claim for compensation to the highest court. Prostitution was legalised in Germany in 2002 because the government believed that this would help to combat trafficking in women and cut links to organised crime.

Miss Garweg believes that pressure on job centres to meet employment targets will soon result in them using their powers to cut the benefits of women who refuse jobs providing sexual services.

"They are already prepared to push women into jobs related to sexual services, but which don't count as prostitution,'' she said.

"Now that prostitution is no longer considered by the law to be immoral, there is really nothing but the goodwill of the job centres to stop them from pushing women into jobs they don't want to do."
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Old 02-08-2005, 05:01 PM   #39 (permalink)
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it's false...
http://www.snopes.com/media/notnews/brothel.asp
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Old 02-08-2005, 07:52 PM   #40 (permalink)
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woah. but at the same time, it *could* happen
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