Morally wrong, maybe. Illegal, why?!
 

http://www.kingmandailyminer.com/KIN...93&PubID=10758

(i stole it from fark)

Get a Grip: Polygamy again

News Column by
Abbie Gripman
Miner News Editor

Finally. The heat is rising in Colorado City and at last it’s not just due to summer.

At last, the public has proof of fraud of abuse in the polygamous northern Mohave County city.

Colorado City is a tiny, scenic community divided from the rest of the county by the Colorado River and Grand Canyon. The town’s isolation is deliberate. When mainstream Mormons were forced to renounce polygamy in 1890 in exchange for Utah statehood, many refused to give up the practice of taking multiple wives. Early Mormon doctrine taught that taking many wives was the only way for a man to attaint the highest reaches of heaven. In addition, women were taught that only by submitting to their husbands as multiple wives would they be eligible for salvation on their husband’s coattails.

So when the church suddenly reversed itself, many fundamentalists felt abandoned. Those who continued the practice of polygamy were excommunicated. It is a handful of these outcasts who dug in at the community north of the Grand Canyon.

Colorado City and adjacent Hildale, Utah, straddle the Arizona/Utah border. The confused jurisdiction is another complication for authorities trying to crack down on abuses in the community.

A reporter for Phoenix’s alternative weekly paper, The New Times, spent months researching a series of stories he wrote for that paper. The series reveals what many have long suspected: Colorado City is rife with corruption.

What remains to be seen, however, is how county and state officials react to the information.

Utah, to its credit, has finally begun to address the questions of abuse within polygamous communities.

The most frequent accusations are of child abuse in the form of taking child brides. In the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints girls are regularly assigned to join much older men as ‘celestial wives.’ A celestial wife is not a wife by law – this eliminates a legal paper trail that could be used to prosecute polygamists. Celestial marraiges are conducted by the FLDS prophet. Right now, that’s a man named Warren Jeffs. It is Jeffs alone who controls the entire community of the faithful. Church doctrine permits him to assign wives to men in his favor or take wives and children away from men who displease him.

The New Times investigation revealed that Jeffs himself is listed as the father of a baby born in 2001 to Lori Steed who, figuring a normal gestation, was 17 years old at conception.

In Utah it is a felony for a man to have sexual relations with a 16- or 17-year-old girl if the man is more than 10 years her senior. Warren Jeffs is 47. He also is reported to have more than a dozen other wives.

He has, however, been charged with no crime.

Colorado City Mayor Dan Barlow has accused those who criticize the FLDS with interfering with the community’s right to freely practice its religion.

But religion is not the issue in Colorado City.

The horror of girls being assigned as sexual partners to older men they may not even know is just one of many issues state and county authorities have studiously ignored over the past half-century.

For years the community has been the target of complaints of welfare fraud. ‘Celestial wives’ are said to apply as single mothers to quality for food stamps and aid for themselves and their many children.

Another startling revelation of the New Times investigation is related to the public school system.

It was well reported in 1998 when then-prophet Rulon Jeffs, father or Warren, ordered his flock to remove their children from public school. Public school, he said, provided too much contact with the evils of the outside world. The ever-obedient faithful responded and hundreds of students were withdrawn and many teachers quit.

In an April 20 New Times story, journalist John Dougherty reports that the fallout from the exodus directly benefited the church.

Many school supplies, computers, furniture and even a school building, were no longer needed. So the district (whose board is all FLDS) sold the equipment to the church at fire-sale prices. After students were withdrawn from the public schools, the church stepped in to continue their education. How convenient that all these materials came on the market at such good prices just when they were needed most.

Beyond that, the decimated public school district continued to receive large cash infusions from the state of Arizona. The school board used the money to travel to education-related functions around the country. They traveled so much, The New Times reports, they decided to buy a private plane – with taxpayer money, of course.

So now, the question is, whose responsibility is it to prosecute crime in Colorado City?

No one, not the county sheriff or county attorney, not the state attorney general, not even the FBI, wants to take on the FLDS.

In light of the evidence now before them, it’s time for someone to get serious about crime in Colorado City.


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this could proove an interesting debate.

see, I think its kind of weird and fucked up to have more than one wife, but God or no one else has ever given me the right to judge one who does agree with Polygamy. If a man has 3 wives or a woman 3 husbands, honestly, what gives us the right to say its wrong?

now with them being under 18.. thats another story. he should be tried, she is underage. if he can't wait one more year, he can come cry me a river and I'll play a little fiddle for him.

I say if you can afford it and the wives are happy, go for it. . . . if you mind your business, I will mind mine, you know?

as far as welfare. I am against it in this case. if you have more than one wife you damned well better be able to support them. On this part I agree with him going to jail, but if he CAN support all wives and kids , let him do so. but I think Welfare should go to some people who really need it - and believe me guys, there are some people who need it. its just mostly abused.

my $.02

I believe both age limit and polygamy laws are absurd. I disagree with the govt running peoples lives.

I defintly disagree with the polygamy laws. That goes hand in hand with my thoughts that anyone should be able to do anything as long as it dosn't hurt anyone and everyone involved is consenting (and of a consenting age). And on that note I think the age of consent should be lowered. Just because where did they come up with 18? Nowhere. They just picked a number out of the air. Untill recently a more standard age in societys was more around 13. Which sounds real young to anyone who has been raised in a 18 and up society but read your history books a little and you will find out that wasn't always so. That said I am not preposing they lower the age of consent to 13. But I do think they should lower it to atleast 16. (Which actully is mostly a state by state thing I THINK, And I know here in oklahoma 16 and 17 can be considered legal 'with parental consent') I defintly agree though that if you can't support them don't get them (or have them as far as kids go)

I'm with Halx. Age limit and polygamy laws are ridiculous as the laws that exist still outlawing oral sex.

Age limit; maybe younger but there should still be one.
I believe some of the European countries have it about 15.
(although I couldn't even think of doing it with someone under 25; I'm 35)

Polygamy should be left up to the individuals.
It shouldn't matter if one has 2 or more life partners.
Men or women, or any combination you can consider.

Church & States' separation should be absolute.
The only personal rights that should be protected are those that might HARM an individual, mentally or physically.

Sex or relationships do not harm individuals,
unless that person is too immature to handle it.
They have to understand the consequences of their actions.

Why in the hell would you wanna deal wth more than one wife?

I agree that if he can support them, wives and kids, and it is his religion to have multiple wives, then that's OK. However, this guy and his followers are crooks who are using the church as a cover for embezzlement and child abuse.

I guess if you are nice to the 'Prophet' and he likes you, he'll get you fixed up with some nice little 15 yo to be your 'celestial wife'. Multiple wives are one thing but making young girls have sex and become wives of old guys is sick.

It sounds like the local govt is as corrupt as this 'church'. Too bad this is likely to go on for a while.

So if we lower the age of consent, and legalize polygamy, it'd be okay for some middle-age guy to give someone else's teenage daughter to one of his cronies as a fuck-toy/babymachine, so he can control her welfare checks?
How many of these girls, if exposed to the outside world, would 'consent', anyway?

This is a story of religious patriarchy gone over the edge, into the realm of absolute power corrrupting absolutely, kinda thing.
Since when does freedom of religion absolve a group from adhereing to the laws of the land?

Mister Jeffs and his buddies need to spend a little time in prison, as community bitches, traded among the power elite. That would be some great karma...

I could not agree more with you ;)

I can't imagine doubling THAT kind of fun. :-P

while i do have certain reservations regarding age limits... all in all, i couldn't agree more here...

if we say it's okay for the gov't to regulate who we marry and why, we are opening Pandora's Box.

rogue49 hit the nail on the head when he said

Quote:

Church & States' separation should be absolute. The only personal rights that should be protected are those that might HARM an individual, mentally or physically.

take it a step further... think of the number of people who would consider this very site "immoral" and try to shut it down... *shaking my head* no thank you... i think i'll leave gov't control OUT of my personal, private life thank you.

What gets me about the polygamy thing is the people were excommunicated immediately. No gradual phasing out, no soft discouragement of taking up polygamy initially whilst allowing those already in relationships to continue on thier way.

Imagine if your religion told you to cut off your hand and then six months later said the one handed ones would be excommunicated - what would you do, sew it back on?

I'm not a big fan of telling people what to do with their lives... but the people who make the laws often tend to be the biggest freaks...

I think in theory lowering the age of consent [it's a little fuzzy since it's different every where...here in Canada, 'TECHNICALLY' you can 'consent' when you're just 14...but there's a lot of unclear exceptions here and there I think...not too sure, never did it when I was 14 :p] and allowing polygamy is ok, I mean why the hell not rite? People can mind their own business so long as there isn't any abuse and whatnot.

In reality it's far more complicated...it always is...
-With the age consent thing, it's there to basically protect naive little teeny boppers, a lot of the time there's really super old dudes looking for some stupid lil girl to take advantage of. The gov't should make a reform in the law so that if you're doing it with someone 1oo years older...then maybe you should probably wait till 18. Other wise...knock yourself out.

-Polygamy...well it's unorthodox, but a lot of things are, so why shouldn't polygamy fly? The deal with polygamy is, there IS a lot of abuse that goes on, and really it's not exactly gonna be your run of the mill, down to earth guy that's having a whole bunch of wives...I mean what type of a guy wants 10 wives? And finally...polygamy is not gonna go well wiht feminists that's for sure. I mean if polygamy is allowed, do you really think there's gonna be a whole bunch of women with 10 husbands? Chances are, polygamy is a guy's thing...and not a common guy's thing but it does subject women...lots of them, and that kinda sucks too.

how about growing balls and saying "I will not cut off my hand"?

I've severed many ties with my beliefs. I finally realized not everything is everyone and i don't let the church push me around.

(sorry two posts in a row.)

I see your point, but abuse is in everything. its kind of like one bad apple making the rest bad...

if you're going to dictate someone life you should penetratet heir lives. know them, know their ways. if there are signs of abuse or wrong doing, step in, take out the trash.

i know that sounds way too hard, but some law makers make dictating way too easy.

Well of course polygamy and age of consent has nothing to do with buying and selling ones daughter or wife.

Has anybody ever heard of a woman with multiple husbands?

lafemmefatale brought that up and I've racked my brain trying to come up with one case of a woman being charged with polygamy. Any ideas? Better yet, any links?

The point of their polygammy is, the more wives you have, the better God likes you." Isn't -this- rather absured? Doesn't it make the ends justify the means instead of the other way around? Using the excuse of religion to do somthing? "I have 6 wives because it's my religous belief." I sacrifice virgins because it's my religous belief."

Kind of a reach, but you get the idea.

As for age, maybe God likes 'em young too. They don't have enough women of age? They can't wait a few years?

I agree with teh Halx guy.

However, to some degree age limits are necessary, though not federally.

I can't even find one girl, forget about six.

Maybe for legal reasons you add their ages together and count them as one 85 year old wife :)

I've tried several times to respond to this post but I just can't get the words to come out right.

I think that this kind of stuff should be handled on a case by case basis. I really think they should make some kind of test that determines your maturity so they are allowed to do these things before the legal age of consent.

Lowering the age of consent isn't just changing a few numbers. You have to raise the children so that they are able to make the decision without being expoited.

I'll think of more later, I think I got writers block.

The only problem with that theory is you are ignoring the thousands of 18 year olds who aren't mature enough. Much less the many in their mid 20s that aren't mature enough. I mean I agree with you not everyone is ready at 16 but there are defintly ones out there that are. The problem with the random age of 18 is that there IS no rule of what age you are mature enough at.

And as for multiple husbands, I havn't heard of it personally but why not?

just plain dumb.

hmmm....People like the FLDS are just trying to find a way and reason to have sex with young girls and call it normal. "Oh," they say, "if its in our doctrine it must be okay." Ridiculous. Now I'm not a moral majority kind of person, but this is just dumb. And the really weird thing is that it is so related to a religious law. Just think about it: a religion, with foundations in Christianity and Jesus Christ, that allows this. Really, they're just allowing themselves a way to get some young chick in bed when they want to. No, the FLDS is really messed up. I dated an LDS gal for a few years. While she was nice, the more I read about LDS, the more I saw how it seemed to be created to pull in unsuspecting people with simple twists of stories, etc. Very odd. I was just a little relieved when she found another LDS dope and got married. yeah, we had fun, but no, I did not want to live my life that way. If the FLDS is anything like the LDS, then watch out...

Why did the Mormons drop polygamy ?

They read in the bible that man should only have one master !

Actully they dropped polygamy because the US goverment told them they would not allow Utah to become a state if they didn't. Its sad that a religion (even one as truely fucked up as LDS) has to give up its beliefs for this secular world.

" the land of the free " huh, Interesting concept wouldn't you say?

They should legalize pot as well as polygamy. That way I could sit around, get high, and crack multiple women all day long every day. Hell this would even cut U.S. dependence on foreign oil because I and many others would never leave the house, which in turn would increase our national security. Increasing U.S. national security would increase consumer confidence which would in turn drive the economy out of its slump. Hell, it would be a wonderful world. Write your congressman.

BBTB, I did take into account that there are many 20+ year olds that aren't mature. Thats why I said have the test for people under the legal age of consent, when they reach the age they don't have to test and are automatically eligible to consent.

I'm sure this still wouldn't solve many problems though. Oh well I didn't expect I could solve the issue.

I think I just rolled my eyes so hard that it caused a permenant injury. My lawyer will be giving you a call to discuss how you will be paying my eye-re-orientation bills.

I guess I should have something to say here, since I live permanently and full-time with two girlfriends. But the "marriage" bit leaves me cold. Institutionalizing relationships asks for legal sanction and a bunch of other stuff that doesn't make any sense to me.

Human relations are exactly what the word "private" is about. Beyond that, it's obviously a mess trying to put adult relationships into legalese. So I don't.

The reason 18 years was picked was because most people have finished growing at 18. Younger women have more of a chance of complications during pregnacy. Believe me when you see any child under 18 having a kid you know she isn't ready. I've seen them and they aren't pretty.