Should selling drugs be reason for a life sentence?
 

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Sorry, I don't have a link with the results of this guy's trial, but I can tell you that today did get sentenced to life in prison. No idea if he can get paroled or not.

I live about 3 miles from this guy's house, and while I can say I am glad he got caught and arrested, I'm not so sure I agree with life in prison. I mean, LIFE. Why not just execute him? Is this a fair sentence? Sure, it was near a school, but I think this is too much.

I'd be interested to hear other's opinions.

So the guy was selling cocaine and crack within 1000 feet of an elementary school? If so, throw the book at the piece of shit, he deserves it.

Hang on a minute. Was the execution comment sarcasm? Or are you actually proposing it?

I think life imprisonment is a very heavy penalty that should be used sparingly. Why not something like "one year per gram" or something?

I don't know. The sentence is higher because it was near a school. It's an emotive issue.

Mr Mephisto

Sarcastic with the execution remark! I think he should spend a decent time in prison, but not life.

Because he's by a school... how much should that factor into it? Maybe add 10-15?

in Singapore and Malaysia written in red bold letters on the visa you fill out upon entry reads:

"Death to drug traffickers."

They routinely kill drug dealers there.

Yes they do. Indeed an Australian citizen has just had his appeal against the death sentence denied. And that sentence is mandatory by the way.

Thailand and China also execute drug traffickers.


Mr Mephisto

He deserves that... drugs are bad and the people that want to contaminate the young people should be locked forever. :hmm:

Buying/Selling/Using drugs are all victimless crimes and IMO shouldn't have legal ramifications when used responsibly(IE:no driving under the influence.)

All that cocaine. Sounds like the sorority we mixed with tonight.

Anyways, while it totally depends on the circumstances, I think they are going a bit far. A good deal of time? Yes. Life? Not so much.

If you're selling it to the kids that's one thing, but if you're selling it and happen to be near a school, it's no justification for adding to a sentence for something that shouldn't be illegal anyway.

If I'm sitting near a school with 60 grams of hard drugs, even if I'm not selling it to school kids, doesn't that send a message to the kids that see it?

Crack cocaine shouldn't be illegal?

I'm differentiating between "normal" coke and crack here.


Mr Mephisto

Absolutely not.

The extreme reactions you feel are not should not be towards the person who was sellign the drugs. His market niche was created by the US government. His whole market was created by the US government when they decided to make the drugs completely illegal.

Drugs for recreational purposes should be sold from license stores, package stores, liquor stores, pharmacies, etc. and controlled by an ID check to verify that the purchaser is of age, in exactly the same manner as alcohol is sold.

The only way to keep drugs off the street is to keep drugs behind the counter. Prohibitions never work unless your goal is to waste government tax dollars in impossible enforcement efforts, to lose possible legal tax revenue, to waste money on maintaining prisons for offender, to lose social safety in turf wars.

There are more reasons that show how a prohibition is always the wrong action, but this topic depresses me.

I'd like to offer that there are more civilized ways to deal with a drug seller.
Rather than murder someone, or spend millions of taxpayer dollars to imprison the person for the rest of their natural life, spend money to rebuild the life that fell down to the level of a drug seller. Spend money on rebuilding the lives of America's poor.

Locking a person up does not solve the drug problem. That's like giving a hungry man a fish, rather than teaching him how.

Why do people use drugs?
What are the negatives of the drug use?

If you want to see some negatives of drug use, i'm gonna have to go find some post-surgery pictures tomorrow and scan them in, but they are really NSFW!

I used methamphetamines and cocaine for about 2 years before quitting. About a year ago, I started to have problems breathing thru my nose, and my throat was really raspy all the time. I went in for a checkup, and got referred to a specialist.

My nasal cavity was so scarred there was only about 10% of the space there should have been up there, my throat had layers of scarring down the back from the post-nasal drip that is so common among snorted drugs. I had growths inside my nose, in my throat, and on my vocal cords. The doctor told me it was caused by my abuse of drugs. I didn't believe it could be that bad, so I got a second opinion. THe second doctor told me the same thing.

A week later I went in for surgery, it lasted 12 hours. I was out of work for over a month. When I got out of surgery there were 2 half-inch tubes running out of my nose to allow the blood to drain beyond the packing. I bled from the eyes for two weeks. They had to remove pieces of my vocal cords. My voice is now about an octave deeper, and is very gravelly.

A week after the surgery, I felt something in my throat and coughed. It ripped off some of the scabs in my throat, and I could feel blood running down my throat. By the time I got to the hospital, I had passed out, and my blood pressure was 65/41. I had lost an immense amount of blood, and could have died if my brother hadn't been there and gotten me to the hospital quickly.

The doctor also told me, my chances to develop problems with my nose or throat later in life are almost certain with the amount of damage I did to them. I'll try and find the pictures and post them tomorrow, although they are pretty gruesome.

I'm from Singapore and I'm glad of the drug laws here. Not surprisingly, there is very little trouble with drug abuse here.

The law here says that the death penalty is mandatory for those convicted of trafficking, manufacturing, importing or exporting more than 15g of heroin, 30g of morphine, 30g of cocaine, 500g of cannabis, 200g of cannabis resin and 1.2kg of opium AND, possessing these quannties of drug is prima facie evidence of drug trafficking. So, if Mr Melvin Fudge was here in Singapore, he will be executed.

Yes, responsible and recreational use of drug do not bring harm to anyone. But CAN everyone be trusted to use it responsibly? I think not. More likely, irresponsible use of the drug wil inevitably happen, and it will bring harm to the user himself, and posssibly to others too through related social problem.

Yes, I know this is not fair to those who think they can use drug responsibly, but I agree with the concept of "for the good of the public". If these sentences are the most effective way of stopping drug abuse and trafficking, then I would accept it. Yes, it's harsh, but it works.

It might be my upbringing or conditioning, but I think that these sentences are effective and there is nothing wrong with them.

me i see is a certian way... ok so it dosent really say he was selling to kids thats ok.. yet it dosent say he wasnt selling to kids either. a child innocence is the most important thing in the world in my eyes. he was near a school. word gets around. who knows. he sells drugs .. no pot .. pot is stupid yet the least dangerous of it all still its bad.

my whole point is this. he sold near a school.. yeah put him in a hole. weither he sold to kids or not. its his on stupidity that he set up shop there in the frist place.

and unfortunatly i louisiana im friends with law enforcement here several work with us off duty on concrete. they had a huge drud bust at the apt yesterday.. the peice of shits got hauled off.. wanna know what. they went to school with me. they had ever oppurtunity to better thier lives had every thing handed to them. what did they do.. piss on it live in a complex designed for low income families and yet here they are. Sitting there, day after day drawing off the working class while they get thier "income" selling dime bags to everyone around here.

personally ive kicked the shit otta three of them for comeing up to me or my friends and asking if we want anything. humph

using money to better thier lives..

on a more or less non partial way to look at it..

you make 5 bucks minium wage (most jobs you start out like this) or sell drugs and make 500 to 2k a week. most will take the drugs cuz its fast money. that are put into this situation.

Life is too harsh a sentence. 20 years is considered a life sentence. Drugs are an evil that will never go away. Just because you sell them close to a school doesn't make it any worse. Selling drugs is selling drugs. You make a conscious effort to buy them just as you do to sell them. A person fully knows the risks.

I don't see why a person should get life in prison when there are people who break into houses and cars or that assualt people or women get considerably less time.

There ought to be some kind of logic to sentencing. I've seen murder cases where the perpetrator got only 25 years in prison. Selling drugs (whether near a school or not) ought to carry a lesser punishment. I won't get into the whole "legalizing drugs" debate but I can't see how throwing someone in prison for a while is helping the situation.

He should have his fucking head split open with a rusty axe.

Slimy drug dealers who contribute nothing but crime to society really piss me off.

I think that the whole issue with trying to make examples with people is flawed. If someone is reduced to pushing crack for a living, do you think that for a moment they'll stop to think about what happened to mister life sentence here? Not at all. They should be chasing higher up.

I don't want to be the idiot who says 'Drugs are bad, mmkay', I'd rather be the one that acknowledges that they can be abused. Sure, they can be used responsibly, and they aren't Super Solid Pure Evil in white powdered form sent from Satan to punish us. But right now our laws state that we can't do this and that with them. If I don't agree with those laws then I either leave the country, or I break the laws and suffer the consequences. Breaking the laws and then complaining that we think marijuana should be legalized, for example, is fine and all, but until it is, you're still going to get punished, and I'm fine with that.

Life for this guy is far too harsh a punishment. I don't really know what a better one would be but I think that unless the law states (and it might for all I know) that you might be thrown in prison for life by commiting that crime, then I think life is out of the question. We should be told what the punishments are for breaking certain laws. The punishment doesn't fit the crime here. I think we should go by what the law says.

And as an aside, I was reading a newspaper today (more like the illegitimate child of an unemployed tabloid) and in the street interview section, I came across this:

-----
<b>"Should high-risk prisoners be kept in jail after serving their time?"</b>
Woman, 28: "Yes, they should be kept in or under really tight surveillance."
Man, 22: Yes, if they're not reformed they still need to have their issues sorted out."
Woman, 19: Yes, they should be because they're in jail for a reason."
-----

I think it's similar to the original poster's question. If the criminal has served their time, then they should be set free. The court has decided that in order to pay the debt pack to society, they must serve 5 years in prison. Five years go by and that debt has been paid, they certainly shouldn't be kept in jail simply because they're a high risk.

For both the original poster's question and this one, I think the punishment should fit the crime, and that unusual punishments shouldn't be handed out just because people can't think of anything better.

The main difference bewtween powdered coke and crack is that crack is normally found in low-income areas and minority neighborhoods. Regular powdered cocaine is the drug of the white upper-class. Current federal sentencing laws assign the same penalty to the posession of 5 grams of crack as for the sale of 500 grams of powdered coke. this is blatant discrimination aginst our country's minorities and lower economic class.

Why should powdered coke be legal and crack not be illegal? The only difference is that powdered coke is a hydrochloride salt instead of an unrefined rock.

I smoke pot so I am not one to condemn the private usage of illegal substances. However, I do think that there should be a standardized punishment when it comes to the types of drugs you are selling and where you are selling them. This guy was about as dumb as they get. Selling within 1000 feet of a school should land you 20 in the pen. Life? Perhaps a bit harsh. The reality of it is this: What do you think this guy will be doing when he gets out of prison. You think after 20 years he will be reformed and go find a nice white collar job making 6 figures? Um...no. I don't think that after serving sentences that long, that any criminal comes out better than when they went in. After that long all they know is prison life and how to be a badass to survive. What's my point? While a life sentence if pretty over the top for his crime, I think he should be there for that long because if the sentence is lighter he will get out and be as much, if not more, of a menace to society. But then again, we are the ones who are paying for criminals to be in prison for their crimes. And, I would rather only pay for 20 years to keep a criminal behind bars than pay for him/her for the rest of my life.

Now, if we just have a death sentence enacted for drug dealers, we wouldn't have to spend our hard earned money to keep these criminals behind bars. Of course, we would have to set limits on the amount of dealing as well. Someone shouldn't be executed for selling an ounce of dope, but if they are pushing like 500 grams of powdered coke? I dunno.....

Any different punishment due to distance from a school needs to have some sort of reasoning to it. 1000 feet is nearly a quarter of a mile away from the school. That is pretty damn far in my book. Kids sitting on the playground aren't going to see it and very few would even walk by it on their way to school. I can see a different punishment if the person is caught in a house across the street from the school but not a quarter of a mile away.

Realistically, how many people serve ANY time in prison and then get some nice white collar job? Very few.

Society is forgetting about letting the punishment fit the crime and levying extreme punishments against people who supply WILLING users with an illegal product. I got robbed at gunpoint once. They never caught the guy but even if they did he wouldn't be doing 20 years to life and that person threatened my life without my consent.

By the way, has anyone noticed how well these harsher pentalties penalties have worked? It's as if drugs don't even exist anymore. Where did they go?

now I must ask this question. Why send people to prision for correction in the first place if there is no point to it and they will be worse when they get out??

I agree kutulu. I do think that if they are going to have punishments set, then there have to be consistencies. I am just tired of seeing someone get life in prison for selling grams of coke, when someone who rapes a woman gets 3 years and some public service. Our legal system is a fucking joke IMO.

I'm not goin' to jail for life over drugs...

If I kill someone I'll be out in six months.

Life is way too harsh. I agree that there needs to be a uniform level of sentencing and policing, which there obviously isn't. This law places more value on the lives of children than on other people, which is wrong.

And I won't even get into the whole legality issue. That's a whole different thread which I am sure is here on TFP somewhere. Probably several somewheres.

For the most part, I agree with that. At the very most, he should have been told to move have the common decency to move away from the school.

However, in america, it's not so. Hopefully one day we will get away from the "war on drugs"

I found a current article about this guy's specific situation. The offered him a lesser sentence if he pleaded guilty to "other crimes" but he decided to try his luck and not accept the deal. It kinda confuses me, because doesn't that indicate that the "mandatory" sentencing is anything but? Beats me, I'm no lawyer.


http://www.mlive.com/news/grpress/in...1272258780.xml

It was near a school, so yes.

"God-damn, the Pusher-man!"

Two other convictions? Yup, life sentence fits the crime here. He has not been rehabilitated from his two first offenses so I say throw the book at him. Oh, they already did.

I'm a believer in 3 strikes, and also if you try your luck with not taking the plea bargain... well you tossed the dice and lost, so be it.

i dont know how being sent to "time out" which is essentially what jail is, is going to rehabilitate a person.
Chances are if he had that much stuff he wasnt just some poor 4 toothed fellow. It does sound like he violated the most important rule in dealing though, which is dont get caught doing your own stuff :(
I am not particularly a fan of the 3 strikes rule as a felony can be as little as stealing a car, or 200 dollars.
Now, i can see three violent crimes and your out because those people are the true menaces of society, not some person with a little bit of ease up powder or leafy greens.
The part about being 1000 feet from a school is rediculous too if he wasnt selling to them. I believe they have a rule like this in public parks too.
sigh, fuck the reagan era

I don't know about life, but it's pretty serious if they have proof he was trying to sell to children. I don't think it should be a crime at all to sell drugs to adults though.

ok now that the previous convictions come to play I can see why it was so strict. I still think the sentence was too harsh though. Why he didn't take a plea bargain is anyone's guess. I'd be willing to bet he didn't think he'd get life for this. Also, I'm wondering what exactly "life" means. (hopefully I didn't miss it in the article) A 20 year sentence is considered a life sentence . Plus there could have stipulations for early parole and such.

If this is his third conviction, its not about rehab anymore, its about keeping the rest of society safe from this degenerate who has chosen his path in life. The sentence is fine.

I'm sorry but I think that saying he is a danger to society is ludicrous. If people didn't buy drugs then he would be out of business.