MSD

People never get out of hand without alcohol, right? I also love that "Mostly young people" line. Only young people are capable of being rowdy, right?

maleficent

I saw the press conference with him yesterday, where he said there might not be television allowed in the bars... That'll go over well I'm sure.

I agree with him that the rioting was senseless, I'd really love to explain to me why people get destructive when celebrating. Raised by animals perhaps? I just don't understand.

A young woman lost her life because of the stupidity exhibited by the rioters. It was a senseless accident, by early accounts, but if people actually behaved and acted responsibly, then there's be a different story. (The Boston area schools have promised expulsions to any student who was caught rioting - and one of the local tv stations had taped some pretty good footage, pretty stupid to throw away a college career on one moment.)

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DEI37

Yeah, I've never understood what the rioting is all about like that. It's stupid people getting all excited, either in a good or bad sense, over something that doesn't really mean much in this life, and doing stupid stuff. Liquor isn't always involved, but usually is. I personally feel that an arena event shouldn't have alcohol sold on arena property.

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Generally speaking, if you were to get what you really deserve, you might be unpleasantly surprised.

Redlemon

I didn't hear the direct quote, but from what was quoted above, (banning still and television cameras), it sounds like banning reporters from bars, not banning the broadcast of a game. This way, idiots don't show off for the cameras.

Anyway, to everyone who rioted after the game: you were not involved in the team winning. The team won. You are not on the team.

denim

The key point was the death of a 21yo college student at the hands of police. Imagine getting a pepper spray grenade in the eye, as that's what killed her. Pointless murder of a happy person, to all accounts, for what??

runtuff

Boston is a pressure cooker that has not been released in 86 years. I on the surface don't like the idea at all, but man a lot of people are going to get hurt. Not sure if banning alcohol is the answer, but having been to Fenway many times and experiencing the bleacher crowd on a raucous night its probably a really good place to start.

echo465

So, people will just get drunk and roudy at their buddy's houses, and then go outside to riot. What's the difference?

maleficent

The same types of riots happened after the Pats won the Super Bowl... It's not the world series, and it's also not limited to Boston - -happens in too many places.

The mayor or police chief - I honestly wasn't sure who was who when they were talking - -were going on about personal responsiblity -- and they're absolutely correct.

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maleficent

She was in the wrong place at the wrong time... The police have acknowledged that they were responsible, however that doesn't negate that if people were acting like civilized human beings -- not "happy people" they would have not had the need to fire off the pepper bullets.

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pan6467

I think Boston will get riots even worse by the banning of alcohol. As said above, people will just get drunk at home or bring stuff to the game. From what I've heard Fenway isn't in a nice part of town so I'm sure people will find alcohol if they want it.

If I were a bar owner, I'd be extremely pissed because the mayor is taking business away from me on my busiest night?

Makes no sense.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Glory's Sun

I take great offense to this. Boston fans live and die with this team year after year. We put just as much heart into it as the players. So naturally when the team does something remarkable we react. It's the same with Chicago fans. I'm not condoning rioting by any means. I'm simply saying that banning alcohol is not the solution to this.

Cynthetiq

stupid people are just stupid people.

and it takes just a few of them to ruin it for everyone.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

tropple

Yeah, well. Too bad about the girl dying. But going on about "At the hands of the police" is a bit melodramatic. She was hit in the face with a pepperspray shell. When the police start shooting lead into crowds, then you can whine. It was an accident. Move along.

Her father says she was a bystander. Who knows?

Sports hooligans are the same no matetr where they are. Yes, "hooligans." An expression used in europe to describe assholes who don't know how to act and are most frequently associated with sporting events. Personally I am quite happy that the Yankess lost. Not becasue I give a rat's ass about baseball, but because now the streets in new york won't be full of drunken assholes throwing garbage and burning trash containers as has been the norm the last few years.

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Redlemon

I was born in Lexington, MA; I am a Boston fan. I have watched and rooted for the Patriots through all the tough years. I don't follow baseball, but I have a soft spot in my heart for the Red Sox.

But, I repeat and extend my previous statement. Sports is entertainment. If an author kills off a character that I liked in a book or movie, I might be upset about it, but I'm not going to riot. Feel free to root for your team, but don't pretend that you affected the outcome (unless you are that guy from Chicago who grabbed the ball last year).

I have no opinion on the matter of alcohol.

Glory's Sun

I agree a person shouldn't riot. However, I disagree with you on the fans not affecting the outcome. How many times do you hear about the stadium being quiet or the stadium being racous? For the most part the players respond better with the crowd behind them. This is more noticible in football. You're a pats fan. So when you and the rest of the 60,000 fans are screaming their heads off, and you make the opposing offensive line move to early because they can't hear the snap count. You've helped the team. So I say a fan is as much a part of the team as the players themselves. We might not play but we are an extension.

denim

I'm sorry if it bothers you, but I don't require your permission to complain about a 21yo who was partying with the rest of them being killed for doing so. It's not illegal to party. It's not illegal to be in a crowd. It's not illegal to be happy. It's not illegal to be young. It's not illegal to be in downtown Boston in the early morning hours. She was killed by direct action of the Boston police, and I want more done than just an admission of guilt by the department.

Don't be a jerk.

denim

That's okay, you're allowed to be ridiculous. Saying that you're as much a part of the team because you affect the outcome by yelling your lungs out is beyond silly. You'd have to say that all local politicians are part of the team too, as are the concessionaries and the police, especially them riot police during the 6th game in NYC, eh? Yup, and that means that the local politicians in NYC are part of the team too. Right.

MSD

It would seem logical to me that tear gas and pepper gas canisters should be aimed low so as not to hit people in the face. I don't know exactly what hit her, but if the police are using pepperballs, they should know to aim for the chest or below. Even a ground hit with one of those will burn peoples' eyes and cause coughing fits.

edit: judging by reports, they were firing pepperballs at an excited, but not violent, crowd. The police have accepted responsibility, and I hope that whoever is responsible is dealt with appropriately. If an officer was aiming one of those that high, I feel that negligent manslaughter is an appropriate charge to file.

Nazggul

These riots are nothing new really, this has been going on for a looong time. I was actually involved in a riot in Syracuse in 89 or 88 when Indiana beat Syracuse in the NCAA final. It was absolute chaos. However, when I turned around and looked up the street and saw a line of police in full riot gear staring the crowd down, I left. That poor "bystander" should have done the same in Boston, long before the cop had to fire the pepper spray (because they always fire the pepper spray "at" the "bystanders" ). That is the moment of responsibility. Her responsibility for her own actions. She is responsible for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The media/hollywood glorifies this thug mentality. People actually believe that it is ok to damage another persons property or take something that doesn't belong to them simply because they can. Anyway, I'm starting to rant so I'll stop.

I think the Mayor should ban alcohol sales if only to punish the idiots in Boston for doing what they did at the end of the ALCS.

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"If something has to give then it always will."

-- Editors

Glory's Sun

you obviously aren't a sport's fan are you? So when a player comments that he messed up because he couldn't hear..then the fan didn't affect the outcome? I miss your logic in that. There would be no sports without fans... fans are just as important as any individual player. To say otherwise is ludicrous. To go beyond that sir, you are grossly exaggerating my point.

Ace_O_Spades

The Calgary Flames' fans were out in force after their awesome playoff run and THEY didn't riot.... Learn from us peace-loving canadians eh?

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Feh.

denim

Not at all. The sport exists w/o fans. Fans don't exist w/o the sport.

Cynthetiq

I agree with that.

When I see that things are turning to the point where I can no longer protect my own safety 100% I leave the area. No "party" or "exhuberence" is worth it.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Glory's Sun

ok so if all fans of every sport simply quit watching, supporting, participating, playing or acknowledging the sport..then you're saying that it would still exist? Hardly. The NFL, NBA, NHL, MLB and all other forms of sports would simply die and disappear

World's King

That's why I have a flask.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

denim

Professional sports are hardly the only venue. College teams still exist, as do high school. Then tere's real sports, y'know, the kind people actually participate in? Like baseball, football, hockey, etc.. True fans actually play the game. Beer fans watch and participate in beer.

rockogre

Just another case of you young whippersnappers getting liquored up and causing mischief and ruining it for the rest of us.

Too bad some of us old folks can't remember what we did when we were young.

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Only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you,
Jesus Christ and the American G. I.
One died for your soul, the other for your freedom

Glory's Sun

yes I participate in many types of sports.. but what I'm alluding to is that if professional sports disappeared..how many people would still play?

denim

That sounds reasonable. Perhaps better training, modifications to the deterrent, whatever.

denim

Probably the same number who participate now, or a little less since there was no money to be had in it. Granted. The point is that fans are not participants unless they're actually playing and suggesting otherwise is ridiculous.

Redlemon

OK, perhaps a small incremental involvement. But what about the drunken idiot who came out of the bar to riot? Hell, the game wasn't even in town!

Glory's Sun

fans do participate..just at a different level. Fans can be "penalized" by getting thrown out of the game or in some instances..if enough stuff is thrown on a field or fans storm the field.. the game can be forfeited. And also in my point that if all fans failed to acknowledge that a sport exists.. then I fail to see how college sports would continue to prosper. I also think that without fans..and the existance of sports on a major level, that you'd find amatuer participation would soon die as well.

the people who riot..are simply not doing the right thing..that isn't my point...

espi

Puhlease.

They won't ban liquor sales in Boston because the mayor knows where his political fundraising comes from: local businesses, many of whom sell alcohol. It's all just a bunch of blustering on the part of a politician who wants to sound like he's saying all of the right things, but not actually be held accountable.

And the law the mayor is quoting to ban the sales of alcohol in times of emergency probably wouldn't stand up to a court challenge. INAL, but you can't infringe on someone's right to lawfully sell a legal product.

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If it weren't for my horse, I never would've spent that year in college.

feelgood

There's a concept called Mob's Mentalilty (sp) What that means is that when a large group of people get together for whatever reason. They usually throw out their sense of responsbility and respect for others and as a result, they'll riot.

Makes sense and proven correct after numerous riots...

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Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

tropple

Let's not descend into name calling. I commented on your groaning about the the police being in the wrong, not your personality.

The best way to avoid being hurt in a mob is to be elsewhere. Sorry if you disagree. It doesn't take rocket science to see that there is going to be trouble when the police show up in riot gear, nor does it take any great genius to figure out that when the police say disperse, that it should be done soonest, especially when they're wearing riot gear.

Firing tear gas canisters into a crowd is not the first thing that happens when the police show up. There are certain warnings that you must take heed of, such as the police saying "clear out, you lot" or their making attempts to split the crowd to get rid of them.

You can be as happy as you want. But when local businesses are worried enough that they've call the police, then you've crossed the boundary from celebratory crowd to a rioting mob and no amount of self-righteous indignation on your part will change that fact.

Yes, it was direct action, but it was direct in that the girl was there and the officer fired the canister, not that the office saw a girl and thought, "Gee, let's see what happens if I shoot this kid in the eye with tear gas canister."

Don't play this incident as more than it is, which is an unfortunate accident. It isn't worthy of Kent State outcry. You'll get your chance, just be patient.

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+++++++++++Boom!

denim

Okay, right. Sorry about that.

We don't know what happened to in that kind of detail. We don't know if all the people heard them if the order to disperse was issued, and we don't know if the police were visible.


Yes, and what was the problem with the four people killed there? Are you saying is was their own fault? no, I don't really want a response to that, as it's kinda off-topic.

Cynthetiq

right.. that's why there's college lacrosse, gymnastics, wrestling, and crew (i'm sure there are other intramural sports I'm missing) point is that college sports can exist without fans...

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Hanabal

on the point of sports without fans,

how do you think sports get made. people invent them, then play them. no fans, no money, etc. look at the olympics, its full of sports that have no proffesional system and virtually no fans, except a few friends of the players. but people still play, and get quite good. and they can become olympic events.

on the point of the riot,

someone said earlier that you can celebrate your team winning without rioting, i believe he used a canadian team example. and that is the absolute truth, there is no requirement for riots. And as far as ive heard, the girl that got killed was at the wrong place at the wrong time. yes the police should take some responsibility, but she was in a riot, she was most probably in a standoff with the police. it is sad that her life was lost, but if she was thinking straight, she wouldn't have been there.

at the start of this thread, someone remarked that he was surprised the mayor mentioned young people. I'm sure if you look into the statistics of sports riots in the USA, a vast majority of the rioters will be below the age of 30, and almost all will have been affected by alcohol

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I am Hanabal, Phear my elephants

blar

this is the best time for bars and stuff to make business......great profit

geez

tropple

Denim, it's okay to ask stuff. We can second guess this forever. IMHO, it's hard to hide a line of cops with lights flashing. I've found that it's always best to go in the opposite direction from police with loudspeakers and cars with flashing lights.

The difference between Boston and Kent is that this girl was killed by a policeman, and that by accident. Kent State was a deliberate shooting with intent to kill. There were numerous inquiries and analyses of the recordings. The guardsman said they heard gunshots, but I don't think it was ever substantiated.

This was a minor incident except to those directly involved. I understand the pain and grief that those involved are feeling, on both sides. But I don't get so upset about bad news anymore, my sense of scale is pretty burned out now.

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+++++++++++Boom!