tecoyah

I dont know about you.....but this just seems a bit too invasive. I mean...come on, it seems she even flashed them some totty to prove she didn't have a boobie bomb.

http://www.10news.com/news/3799783/detail.html

Woman Upset With Screener's Request To Feel Her Breasts
Kingsford Drives Home Rather Than Submit To Airport Search

POSTED: 8:55 am PDT October 11, 2004
UPDATED: 3:15 pm PDT October 11, 2004
SAN DIEGO -- A woman said she drove home from Denver rather than submit to what she viewed as an intrusive search by airport security screeners.

Ava Kingsford, 36, of San Diego said she was flagged down for a pat-down search at Denver International Airport last month as she prepared to board a flight home with her 3-month-old son.

Kingsford objected when a female screener with the Transportation Security Administration told her, "I'm going to feel your breasts now."

"She was patting me down, and frisking me, and basically covering all parts of my body, my legs, and wanding me with the security wand. And when I thought she had completed her search, she looks at me and said, 'I'm going to be feeling your breasts now,'" Kingsford said. "I was stunned, and I said, 'I beg your pardon?!'"

Kingsford said when she told the screener that she was uncomfortable with it, more security agents and police officers arrived. They told her that she couldn't board her flight without submitting to the final step of the search.

"I was shaking, I was sobbing. I couldn't believe that this was happening to me. It was surreal. It was like out of a movie, with these guys yelling at me, telling me that, yes, she has to feel my breasts or I'm not getting on my airplane," Kingsford said.

Do you think a TSA screener went overboard by asking to touch a woman's breasts during the secondary screening process?
Yes. This is unnecessary. You can see explosives or other hidden devices just by pulling a shirt tight.
No. In this day and age, screeners have to be more vigilant, and a full pat-down search of women requires going beneath, between and above the breasts.


They took her to a private area to continue the search, but she said she was still uncomfortable with them touching her breasts so she tugged down her shirt to show them that she wasn't hiding anything.

"And then they said, 'That's it. We're not going to complete the search and you're not boarding your plane,'" Kingsford said. "They escorted us out and said they didn't care how we got home, it wasn't their problem."

She and her fiance ended up renting a car for the 15-hour drive home.

The Transportation Security Administration said its screeners did nothing wrong.

The agency announced extra security measures last month in the wake of the mid-air bombing of two Russian jetliners. Authorities believe two women smuggled explosives onto the aircraft, possibly in "torso packs" underneath their clothing.

Bob Kapp, customer service manager for the TSA in Denver, said that to conduct a thorough pat-down search of women, "it does require going beneath, between and above the breasts."

Kapp said a few people have been a little bit alarmed by the procedure. But he called it "a sign of the times" that is probably here to stay.

Kingsford said she's anxious about boarding another flight any time soon.

"I don't see how they can get away with feeling women's breasts. I don't see how they can say it's part of their new security policy. It's an infringement, a violation, in my opinion. It's just wrong," Kingsford said.

Kingsford said she had nothing to hide, and the TSA agents could plainly see that.

"I was wearing a pretty form-fitting tank top. There's nothing really to be hiding. You could see my figure. I didn't have any packs. She had patted down my torso. She had completed the torso pat down and wanded me with a security wand but some reason she said she wanted to see my breasts," Kingsford said.

"It was uncomfortable and I felt violated. And the way we were treated when I didn't concede was like I was a criminal. It was an awful experience," she said.

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maleficent

Sobbing? Oh grow up lady... I'd be willing to be she's majorly overly dramatizing this event... Boo hoo for her --please never fly again - please...

Maybe she thinks she's uber hot and the female security guard just wanted her...

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denim

Y'know, I was just beginning to feel that I was going overboard with trying to avoid flying in this country, then this happens. Why anyone would put up with this, I don't understand. Next, they'll want to do cavity searches.

As far as I'm concerned, if they're not going to strip everyone naked for every flight, and perhaps doing cavity searches on EVERYONE, perhaps giving them paper clothing for the duration of the flight, then they have no cause to do less. It's either worth doing, or it's not.

ShaniFaye

I was flying back from ft lauderdale last summer....the plane had been delayed 3 hours...I had left all my stuff with a friend in the bar and gone back out to smoke...of course that airport doesnt have a smoking room on any concourse like Atlanta does so I had to completely go outside and go back thru security to get back in...didnt think it was a big deal...made it thru fine the first time.

When I went back thru I set off the alarm, where as I hadnt before, and had to submit to a personal search where I summarily got felt up when it turned out they figured it was either my piercings or my underwires that set off the wand, and they "had" to check my boobs.

Its not that big of a deal...I wasnt traumatized by it...she needs to get over it...there is a time a place to make a stance, and in my opinion its not when you're facing the alternative of spending 15 hours in a car with a 3 month old.

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Glory's Sun

I'd have to say that she is over dramatizing as Mal pointed out. Did they need to feel her breasts? I'd say no unless there are people using breast implant bombs now?

maleficent

My underwire bra sets off the scanners at some airports (some are more sensitive than others, which is one concern) Whenever I am frisked, it's always by a female (my one major temper tantrum in an airport was caused by them not having enough female screeners, my flight was being called, and the male screeners werent allowed to touch me) She tells me what she's about to touche before she touches and she most always runs her hand under by bra -- It's so NOT a big deal...

And they don't "feel", the same way you'd "feel" a woman's boobage area... all they do is run their hand over the area - generally the back of their hand...

She's got her 15 minutes of fame...

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Cynthetiq

Making a stand in defiance is an important thing... cutting off your nose to spite your face is just stupid.

a moment of discomfort instead of renting a car 1 way for a 15 hour drive back home... that's not cheap. didn't get on the plane, forfeited airfare... that's also not cheap.

I hope that she got her money's worth... if it was skogafoss, we'd weigh the options of the costs (car, airfare, time, lost trip) vs. the "humiliation" and decide at that point.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

bonehed1

well ths woman is obviously a stupid moron and I cant blame her since she is blonde.(Im not saying all blondes are dumb but she tops the cake) She has to be one of the stupidest blondes I have either talked to/heard about/or read about. If touching my crotch helps protect passengers on a plane and gets me to where I need to go safely then by all means grab the schlong and lets move along. Security is an issue now a days with everything going on so if you are avoiding flying becuase you dont want to get "touched" then you have issues you need to deal with. If you cant see that this is for our protection then you need to open your eyes. It may seem its getting out of hand but if it makes it safer to fly why not do it.

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denim

It's not for our protection. It's to make us feel like they're doing something, which they are: they're taking your civil liberties. What if I'm not really a fat man? Maybe it's all make up and I've got a bomb. You let the thin edge of the wedge in, and you'll lose your freedoms next. The terrorists won. I wish people would realize that, when they give up the very freedoms the terrorists were against, in the name of "protection", that they've given in.

ShaniFaye

Maybe she had something she was "hiding" under her boobs...something not terroristic but something illegal.

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Cynthetiq

if it was all make up then it would appear via wand and metal detector. also frisking a human body doesn't feel like a person in a fat suit.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

StickODynomite

They've done that to me before---and funny it was at the Denver International Air Port (i have family there). They pulled me to the side and the female that was frisking/wanding me said .. "Ma'am, I'm going to have to feel your breasts now. I know this is uncomfortable, but It has to be done" I didn't know what to say. I just froze. She patted them down really quick and it was no big deal, IMO. It was just really embarrassing because some people heard her and looked over.

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"The human mind is like a parachute, it works best when open."

StickODynomite

We have to have security though, especially these days.

Personally, I'm more than happy to give up a few rights if it means saving a dozen lives. I can't imagine how many planes would blow up if we didn't have thorough security right now.

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"The human mind is like a parachute, it works best when open."

bonehed1

dude denim, I think you are just to anal about this. What would you do if you got on a plane and every single person had a strip search and the one person who doesn't get their crotch/boobs checked has a bomb and blows up the plane...what then? NOTHING becuase your ass would be dead....if security has to search every single frikin hair on my head/body to make sure it is safe to fly then damnit they will do it. It's not saying terrorist's won, its saying I want myself and others on the plane to be safe and have a safe flight.

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maleficent

While I usually complain louder than anyone at the ineffectiveness of airline security, I know what I have unintentionally "smuggled" onto planes, against what I have gotten confiscated (confiscated -- plastic knife, taken on board -- 6 inch chef's knife - on the same flight the same day same guard -- saw one didn't see the other - I had honestly forgotten it was there until I got home and unpacked my suitcase)

I have no objection at them taking extra precautions, and taking extra care, I do not see at all how it's an infringement of my rights to be patted down, I make the choice to fly, I make the choice to go thru airline security, it's up to me to abide by their rules. Are they just supposed to give me a pass because I "look" honest.

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bonehed1

All I have to say to this is...AMEN

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SecretMethod70

1) The security in airports sucks ass. They haven't done jack in terms of effective security.

2) "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security"
-- Benjamin Franklin

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Cynthetiq

denim, because you took the train down to NYC during the last meet, did you think that was safer or less rights infringing because you weren't subjected to a search?

I'll remind you of Madrid 3/11 and Colin Ferguson on New York's Long Island Rail Road.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Cynthetiq

I'll agree that security hasn't improved since the 70's.

As far as 2. I'll take that from a different point of view. Giving up the right to travel freely because the same security that has been in place since the 70s has been upgraded is the person who is giving up the essential liberty.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

maleficent

Heh, I've had my pony tail checked occassionally...


No argument from me at all, but I keep hoping they're trying - least they better be, with the number of miles I log a year.

Where is it written that going thru an airport, ounimpeded, an essential liberty? Or any place for that matter, one of my clients has an remote office in a courthouse, that I go to occassionally, I've been going there for five years, and go thru massive security hoops to get thru the front door.

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denim

Amen. So there's at least one person who understands what I'm saying. I guess we'll just have to protect the sheep.

water_boy1999

I'm not sure I completely understand your response. Are you being sarcastic about taking our civil liberties being taken from us?

We were not the ones who flew a few planes into the World Trade Center. Because of a few wacked out terrorists, we all need to be a little more cautious, a little more protective and a little more patient with the new way we have to live our lives. If you don't like it, don't get on the fucking plane! Now you can go on living the rest of your lives being bitter about the extra security at airports, bitter about your civil liberties being taken away, or you can get over it already and realize it won't change to satisfy YOUR heirarchal needs.

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Doh!!!!


-Homer Simpson

denim

I'm not as interested in "security" as I am in security, and I'm not at all interested in the BS they pose as "security" in airports. On a train so far, I've not been subjected to any kind of rights violation except for their check of ID, which is not truly necessary but which I have a harder time bitching about, though I'd like to. As far as I'm concerned, the State has no right to ID me, inspect me, violate me, or anything else. If they have that right, then they have the right to do it ALL, and in that case, they should if they're serious about security. But they're not, as shown by various people who get through with such, as Mal said, above.

All they're doing these days is getting us ready for a more thorough violation later.

Was he the guy who defended himself, or some psycho? I don't try to keep track of 'em.

denim

Yes, you have the right to be ridiculous.

denim

See the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution for that one.

bonehed1

I was thinking the same exact thing but with not so many big words. If you can't summit to the new way of life then you obviously need to not leave your house because it can only get more cautious every where you go. If you have to give up liberties to be more safe or feel more safe why not. Why be a complete moron and fight being safer? That sounds stupid to me but that is my opinion.

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denim

Not even a little bit. I've never been more serious.

I only get on planes these days when it's too far to drive or I don't have time to get there by another method. What's your point?

Cynthetiq

I'm all interested in it being 100% thorough. When i lived in Singapore everyone had to go through thorough bag inspections and chemical swab checks. It added lots of time to boarding but that's their protocol.

I'd love for it to be that way because it's exactly like you said, it's everyone, but that's where the problem is. Someone like Mal travels weekly and that would be detrimental to her ability to work as it would remove alomst 1 days work time from her schedule.


Colin Ferguson is the guy who defended himself claiming "Black Rage" he killed 9 people on a commuter train in 94.

water_boy1999

My point is we are doing the best we can with the current sign of the times. I don't think my civil liberties are being taken away in the least bit because they have to pat me down before entering a plane. I think people are making a big deal about it just to hear themselves talk sometimes. If people, in general, are not happy with the screening process, or would be offended from having someone pat them down for possible explosives, then stay away from airports. It is a choice, not a civil liberty.

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Doh!!!!


-Homer Simpson

bonehed1

Amen to that....take the frikin bus or car...damnit by all means walk your ass to where you have to go. I get tired of listening to people complain about the security now a days. Yeah it isnt the best but atleast its something. If you choose to not fly because of getting pat down then that is your problem but dont complain about it becuase you "DONT LIKE" the fact that you have to be touched now to board a plane. Gawd this whoel "I dont like and I dont feel" crap pisses me off!!!!

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Cynthetiq

The constituion and the bill of rights does not apply to private companies, private groups, or private property.

I'm quite serious about that statement. If I was to give up my love of traveling, the nation and the world, then I'd be giving up an essential liberty. I don't see it any more invasive than it was in the 70s and 80s. It's just not behind closed doors, it's out in the open.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

SecretMethod70

Hitler disarmed the populace in the name of their "security." The term Schutzstaffel, or SS, is roughly translated to "homeland security."

From another website:

I don't buy the argument of security over rights ANY day.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

Blackthorn

As much as I don't want some moron poking around my junk before I get on a plane I'll tell each of you this:

It's a lot less uncomfortable than HAVING YOUR PLANE SLAMMED INTO THE SIDE OF A BUILDING! maleficent is spot on Get over it...

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What are you willing to give up in order to get what you want?

SecretMethod70

He's talking about searches of one's person without probably cause.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

water_boy1999

This is not Germany, and Bush, as much as I dislike some of the decisions he has made, is not Hitler. One "homeland security" was used to cleanse an ethnic population, the other "homeland security" was used to protect our transportation, borders, and people from terrorism. How can you possibly compare the two?

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Doh!!!!


-Homer Simpson

bonehed1

ROFL....some people dont care about being uncomfortable because they would rather be stupid and do the hard thing by just avoid flying and drive 8 hours instead of a take a plane that will get you there in 3. They dont want to feel like they are losing their rights because someone has to feel their junk but to each his own. Some people are stupid like that.

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SecretMethod70

You're right in that Bush is not Hitler. However, once power is given to a government it is extremely difficult to take it away. Our founding fathers knew this, and that's why they originally created such a limited federal government and included the right of the people to bear arms. Incidentally, the SS originally did all the things you say our dept of homeland security is in place to do - in fact, that's precisely why it was said to have been created.. All it takes is one "aspiring man" to gain control now, and who knows. Our descent is not nearly as fast as others have been in the past, but it's happening. And, no, it won't be as "evil" or bloody as those in the past. Our descent is of a new breed - one of government supported corporate pseudo-slavery.

Science fiction is just that - fiction - but it tends to always have a basis in truth. We didn't go to the moon by being shot out of a giant gun, but we did go to the moon. Likewise, our "1984" will be and is becoming much less overt and clear, but it's coming no less.

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

water_boy1999

I agree, except there is a huge difference in a democracy and a dictatorship and the "aspiring person(s)" who run either. We have this little thing called an election where people vote for who they want in power for the next 4 years. If you don't exercise that power, which by the way is one of our civil liberties, then the so called "descent" you talk about will not be the fault of our leaders, but the fault of the people who truly hold the power.

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Doh!!!!


-Homer Simpson

ShaniFaye

well according to DHS Rail security is coming too....they ran a 30 day pilot program back in may to start preparing for it

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display...9&content=3529

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

ShaniFaye

http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display...0&content=3842

and this part of the program from july

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!