sky_driver

OK, first of all, my thoughts and prayers are to the family of the most recent American who was beheaded in Iraq. Now this is how I really feel, and if I upset anyone, then too fu**ing bad. You can stop reading my post now. I am sorry, but I can no longer feel anything for any American who continues to be there to "help the Iraq people rebuild their country". They don't like us...they don't want us there... they don't care that we are being murdered...It just does not fu**ing matter. Any American who is over there on their on free will are taking their life in their own hands...or the hands of those fu**ing islamic militants which hold the knives that they use to cut off their heads.

For the life of me, I still cannot understand how anyone can be so stupid that they continue to work over there after knowing that there have been 3-4 beheadings. And what about their wives and children? Do they not care about their husband or father? Appearently not, otherwise they would damn well make sure that they left that desert death bed.

I am sorry, but I cannot accept that they are there because the "money is good". If you can get a job over there, then you can get a job over here. And as far as wanting to "help" the Iraqi people... To hell with them, come back to America and help the homeless, or the elderly, or the children with debilitating diseases.

They made the choice to go over there. Now they have the opportunity to have the entire world see them getting their head cut off thanks to the Internet.

Cynthetiq

3-4 beheadings.... a group of people don't want us there...

at the same time the converse of that is also true.

there are thousands of people there who still have their heads... there are groups of people who want us there.

__________________
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The Phenomenon

Do I need to point out the logical inconsistancies in your post?

If an American beheads an Iraqi, does that mean that all Americans are guilty, and that all Americans should be blamed.

__________________
Do not confuse altruism with kindness, good will or respect for the rights of others. These are not primaries, but consequences, which, in fact, altruism makes impossible. The irreducible primary of altruism, the basic absolute, is self-sacrifice - which means: self-immolation, self-abnegation, self-denial, self-destruction - which means: the self as a standard of evil, the selfless as a standard of the good.

Grondar

Another one has been be-headed since they be-headed "Armstrong" yesterday?

__________________
"Yes, I rather like this God fellow. He's very theatrical, you know, a pestilence here, a plague there. Omnipotence. Gotta get me some of that." -Stewie

tinfoil

On one hand, I can agree with your statement. Take care of your own messes before you take care of someone elses mess. That being said, these people are over there because the things they are doing need to be done and they aren't being done by anyone else. It is terrible that there are groups in Iraq that would rather kill Americans (or her allies) rather than work with them to build a better country, but not all Iraqis share this view.

As you said, they made their choice. They made their choice to go where they feel they are needed. There is a great deal of effort being put into dealing with homeless, the elderly etc in America and very little effort being put into the same things in Iraq.

I have to give a great deal of respect to those helping out over there, be it for purely humanitarian purposes or with some financial incentive. They got some balls, I certainly wouldn't be there.

__________________
Get off your fuckin cross. We need the fuckin space to nail the next fool martyr.

filtherton

Welcome to the realities of war. If beheadings were the first things to call your attention to civilian casualties than you should be reminded that collateral damage is a part of every war.

Macheath

I'm in two minds about this idea that you "just shouldn't be there".

On the one hand, I see Iraq as being politically sensitive and personally do not favour the war. On the other hand if I completed my studies and saw the chance for solid career advancement by going to a place that was "less safe" than Sydney, Australia; I'd be tempted. If I was given a chance to go to Indonesia or Papua New Guinea - places "more safe" than Iraq but "less safe" than Australia - I'd probably take it. If you give me a good enough reason to be somewhere, I'm going to have to seriously consider the offer.

Seriously, what happened to Eugene Armstrong chills me because I can kind of relate to him - travelled around the world working until he settled in Thailand before finally going to Iraq. It seemed like a damn cool life until these goddam asshead phsychopaths took matters into their own hands.

Of course I'll confess, there's another way of describing third world "contracting" work that makes it sound much more reckless and immature than mere "career advancement":

I suppose living in this big world just comes down to a matter of calculated risk.

feelgood

I suppose that one way to look at this is that the "money" sucks in North America while the "money" is good in Iraq.

Most of those people have family that they need to provide for and by taking a risk of getting killed, they chose to get the money that the family need...

__________________
Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

powerclown

This is the face of the beast that wants to rule Iraq. Should the world simply look on from the sidelines and let animals like these be in control of a country of such strategic importance? If things fail and anarchy reigns, who can hold their head up high and be proud of such failure?

Will Iraq be run by a government of intolerant, barbaric outcasts, or a government of law and inclusion in the civilized world? Extremely difficult times - times that define present and future generations.

Rdr4evr

I agree with you Skydiver....for the most part.

It's funny you see this beheading on the "news" because he is American. This is not new, do you know how many beheadings and executions there have been since Berg?

Eugene Armstrong, American, killed on 20 September
Nasser Juma, Egyptian, killed on 5 September
12 unnamed Nepalese hostages were killed on 31 August
Enzo Baldoni, Italian, killed on 26 August
Mohammed Mutawalli, Egyptian, killed on 10 August according to Islamist web site posting
Osman Alisan, Turkish, killed on 5 August according to Islamist web site posting
Murat Yuce, Turkish, killed on 2 August according to Islamist web site posting
Sajjad Naeem, Pakistani, killed on 28 July
Raja Azad Khan, Pakistani, killed on 28 July
Georgi Lazov, Bulgarian, killed on 13 July
Keith Matthew Maupin, American, killed on 28 June according to al-Jazeera television, but there is no official US conformation
Kim Sun-il, South Korean, killed in 22 June
Hussein Ali Alyan, Lebanese, killed on 12 June
Nick Berg, American, killed on 11 May
Fabrizio Quattrocchi, Italian, killed on 14 April

Most are not American so Americans dont really give a shit, which is sad. Once again, why do people generalize an entire culture for a few fanatics? "Nuke the whole country" this, "destroy islam" that. Sure these assholes who commit these actions should be brought to justice, but dont forget who began this senseless war to begin with.

I saw this beheading video last night and I must say it is the most distrubing one I have viewed yet. I wont go into detail as I'm sure most of you would prefer not to know, but I will say this: These guys know the risk of going to Iraq, and if they are killed, they cant blame anyone but themselves. They made a choice just like the US soldiers made a choice, just like the Iraqi militants made a choice, therefore I dont feel sorry for any of them. The only ones I feel sorry for are the civilians who wanted nothing to do with the war yet were killed. They did NOT have a choice.

Death is death, the Americans drop bombs on innocents killing thousands but nobody cares, one American gets beheaded and everyone is shocked? Makes no sense to me, people are so blinded by American media that they dont even know whats what anymore. Dont worry, Mr. Bush knows what he is doing...

water_boy1999

My thoughts exactly. Although I do agree to an extent, I feel ashamed at our country that we can publicize and politicize the beheadings of our fellow Americans, yet we show no remorse for those innocent lives that are taken from a war that should have never started in the first place.

We have gotten ourselves into such a mess in Iraq. Sadly, this beheading will not be the last by any means.

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Doh!!!!


-Homer Simpson

Destrox

We are not wanted there, and for damn good reasons too, as we shouldnt be there but that isnt for this post.

Do not act suprised that a precious American is beheaded when MANY more non-Americans just as innocent (maybe less) are killed for no reason.

This is war, innocents will die, and will continue to die. The fact that this one was American shouldnt matter anymore then if they are French, Canadian, German, or whatever. We are not above anyone, but the news media makes it look like we are.

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You bore me.... next.

Bill O'Rights

I don't believe this is true. We may care more when it is "one of our own", but to say that we do not give a shit is, I believe, incorrect.



Human nature, I suppose. Of course we fear that which we do not understand. But thinking men, and women, know the difference. As far as "Nuke the whole country" goes, the only time that I, myself have uttered anything remote to this was when I said that should any American city suffer a "dirty" bomb, at the hands of Islamic terrorists, then Mecca should fall to the fate of a 50 megaton warhead. I, of course, recanted that statement.



While this may be true, that doesn't make tha act itself any less heinous.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Yakk

All that it takes for evil to flourish is good men to do nothing.

This applies to both sides, both being in Iraq and staying out of Iraq.

America should both be in Iraq and should not be in Iraq. It is both worth the price and not worth the price. Anyone who tries to sell you a bill of goods that claims to definately answer this question is being dishonest with themselves or with you.

Did the USA go in with less than noble motives? Yes. You can find reems of evidence that the Iraq war was planned to occur well before 9/11, that it was about securing oil and American geopolitical influence in the oil-rich region, and the moral justifications are at best an excuse not a reason for the force to be there.

Did the USA go in with noble motives? Yes. Dictatorships and oppressive governments don't just 'go away'. Without external pressure, oppresive societies can maintain the status quo and crush opposition for decades if not centuries or longer. Free societies are both better for the people and produce more, free socities won in the west through crushing their less free neighbours -- the powers that be had no choice but make their nation free or have their dominion stolen by another power that be. Saddam wasn't in perfect compliance with the cease fire agreement. Islamofascism must be stopped, Islam needs to be rescued from those who would poison it and use it for evil, and building democracies in the middle east is a solution to that problem: when laws win over force, the people win.

Are all of the above issues more complex than my above sketch? Yes, of course.

This is a hard problem. Don't trust anyone who sells you simple answers.

Veitnam was both a slaughter of innocents and a sacred war against an evil memic desease.

World War II was both a stand of freedom against slavery and a geopolitical war of old powers vs a repressed rising power.

France is both a nation of unparalleled military, social and cultural history and strength and a bunch of cheese eating surrender monkies.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

Rdr4evr

Exactly my point.

Apparently the individual who performed the beheading could have been Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, here is a translation of what the suspect said:

EDIT: Forgot the link.......

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...04Sep20.html?g

I just checked this website and it seems they have killed the other American as well.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...i_040921192217

powerclown

The women these beasts were referring to for release are these 2 charming ladies:

Dr. Rihab Rashid Taha, aka "Dr. Germ" for helping Iraq make chemical weapons out of anthrax.
Huda Salih Mahdi Ammash, a high-ranking Baath party biological weapons researcher.

Both were educated in the West (Britain & the US), and then went back with their Western educations to work in the dictator's wmd sector.

omega2K4

I totally agree with you. As many as 15,000 innocent Iraqi civilians have been killed since the invasion of Iraq, yet you never hear about them in the media, yet you always hear about the one hostage that gets beheaded. It is fucking disgusting that the media makes it look like an American life has more meaning/value over any other person's. People are so blinded by their religion, government, and the media, that they believe anything that any of the mentioned will tell them, and its sickening that people (for the majority) do not know how to think for themselves.

__________________
"While the State exists there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no State." - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

"Reason has always existed, but not always in a reasonable form."- Karl Marx

Pacifier

It seems, that the terrorists got what they want:

The Iraqi Council of Ministers plans to release a female prisoner "on bail" from U.S. custody but did not say whether it was responding to recent terrorist demands that women prisoners be freed, according to a Ministry of Justice spokesman.
Full Article:
Iraqi officials: 'Dr. Germ' to be freed on bail

__________________
"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
— Albert Einstein

tropple

There are always people willing to risk death to help others. Take for example the two italian aid workers who were kidnapped. They were not making tons of money. There are red cross/red crescent workers there, and numerous other aid groups.

Yes, it is a risky thing to work under those conditions, but many of the foreigners working there are doing so becasue they can not make that much money in a reasonable time in their own homelands. It is a chance for someone to lift their family from semi-poverty to a level perhaps not possible otherwise. It's college money, seed money to start a family business, or maybe a down payment on a house.

There are many reasons to make that gamble. My father worked in Cuba during the missile crisis at the base at Guantanamo. Burns and Roe Construction company built a huge desalinization plant there. The Marines and Navy were on constant alert, the Cuban Army was massed outside for months.

That is how my father raised the money to make a down payment on our home.

They have reasons that are sufficient for them. But you've probably never gone to bed hungry, either, or not been able to afford paper to use in school. You might not understand their reasoning, but don't show contempt for the people who are working there.

__________________
+++++++++++Boom!

ShaniFaye

Since the newest victim lives here locally...its all thats being talked about...and of course the media has swarmed on this family's house like flys on a dead carcass...jesus people let the woman grieve...today was her husbands bday for gods sake....No I dont agree the guy should have been there, given what has been going on with the beheadings of ALL the different nationalities, but he was...and now he's dead, yes he was trying to make money for his family, Im not questioning his motives, Im questioning his intelligence on STAYING...if it had been me Id have been back home after the first time this happened.

on another note...everything I read keeps saying....blah blah blah so and so was posted on an Islamic militant web site....does anyone know the url for it? I've googled and googled and nothing I bring up actually says what the url for it is. I'd like to see what an "islamic militant" web site looks like

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Pacifier

I also don't know what a "islamic militant" web site looks like, but there are a couple of sites that show gruesome videos and pictures. They usually also have those videos.

__________________
"It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere. Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death
— Albert Einstein

ShaniFaye

oh gosh, I dont want to see videos or pictures, I accidentally saw some this morning while searching for this "site" they keep talking about and it almost made me puke, I guess I just wanted to know where this site is the news keeps talking about

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

powerclown

Islamic Militant Website

Apparently they change and move around constantly to cover their tracks, but this one iis up as of today.

ShaniFaye

Thanks powerclown...Im probably glad I cant read any of it but at least now I can stop being aggravated cause I couldnt find it

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Raleighbum

a HUGE bomb there to end everything.
sick nations.
and NO you don't have to be Nazi to think that way.

omega2K4

Ironic. You call them a "sick nation" yet you want to drop a "huge bomb to end everything". You sir, are living in the sick nation.

__________________
"While the State exists there can be no freedom. When there is freedom there will be no State." - Vladimir Ilyich Lenin

"Reason has always existed, but not always in a reasonable form."- Karl Marx

Rdr4evr

How true, we were the first to drop bombs, so we are the sickest nation of all. *sigh* Is there any point to responding to these racist hypocrite Bushies anymore?

Raleighbum

well I know... just bumped into a clip in the net that showed the whole carving process, and that was just soooooo fucking sick.

Pressing buttons is too, but still...

(you seen it?)

filtherton

Hey there! Welcome to war.

Pragma

True, we may have dropped bombs - but Hussein did a lot worse to his own people and the Kurds. As a supporter of Bush, the military, and the war in Iraq, I take very much offense to the comment "racist hypocrite Bushies" - that sounds just as ignorant as the comment above suggesting to drop a giant bomb on the region.