As if we needed another reason to hate car salesman... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

kutulu · 07-20-2004, 02:05 PM

Quote:

When Nancy C. Comita and Donald F. Comita drove their 2003 Ford Windstar off the dealer's lot, they likely knew from specs on the van that it sat seven comfortably.

What the Northwest suburban couple didn't know, a lawsuit filed last week alleges, was that this particular Windstar had previously accommodated eight.

Eight corpses, that is.

The Niles couple's suit alleges that Golf Mill Ford in Niles rolled back the odometer on the van after it was returned by the previous owner, a funeral director.

The funeral director, who does not know the Comitas or stand to benefit financially from the lawsuit, told the Daily Herald he put at least 1,500 miles on the van and eight bodies in it after retrofitting it by removing the back seats and putting in a carpeted platform.

The Illinois secretary of state's office has turned the matter over to its police department for investigation.

Golf Mill Ford did not return repeated phone calls over several days. Lawyers for Golf Mill Ford either did not return phone calls or declined comment. A spokesman at Ford Motor Headquarters in Michigan also declined to comment.

The previous use of the van was discovered, said the Comitas' lawyer, Martin Y. Joseph of Chicago, when the Comitas applied to the secretary of state's office for the title.

They were told, the suit alleges and the secretary of state's office confirms, that the office already had received an application for the title from a Chicago funeral director.

That funeral director confirmed that he bought a van with the same vehicle identification number on Feb. 27, 2003, and returned it - without the carpeted platform - about two weeks later with more than 1,500 miles on it.

"I did take possession of it. I drove it off the lot," he said in a phone interview.

The Comitas bought their van - with a matching vehicle identification number and an odometer reading of 5 miles - for about $25,000 on Nov. 12, 2003.

The funeral director said he returned the van in mid-April of 2003 because he was in the middle of bankruptcy proceedings and the bankruptcy court wasn't going to let him keep the vehicle.

He said he was able to return the van and get his full down payment back. The funeral director spoke on the condition that his name not be used because he is embarrassed about his bankruptcy, which court records show was filed March 31, 2003.

When the Comitas got the letter from the state, they called the funeral director thinking it must be a mistake and found out about the previous use, said Joseph.

Beth Kaufman, a spokeswoman for the secretary of state's office, said Golf Mill Ford contacted the state to try to get a new title for the vehicle.

"In March of 2003, we issued what is called a 'C of O,' which is a certificate of origin to (the funeral director)," said Kaufman. "Then on 12/4/03, we get a request for a duplicate C of O for that car, the Windstar, which the dealership tells us that it's (the title) been lost at the dealership. And so we send them back correspondence saying no, it's not lost, we already have a title issued from this C of O."

In a letter dated March 31, a Golf Mill Ford office manager wrote a letter to the state saying the dealership had titled the van by accident, Kaufman said.

The state wrote back, telling the dealership that it would have to get a signed affidavit from the funeral director, affirming that he had never taken the van, Kaufman said.

The funeral director told the Daily Herald that the dealership contacted him and told him it was having problems with the title and that it needed him to sign a paper saying he no longer had the Windstar. He agreed.

But what it sent him was a two-sentence letter dated June 14, 2004, that read, "I ... did not take possession of the 2003 Ford Windstar with (VIN #). Nor did I take possession of any vehicle at Golf Mill Ford," the funeral director said.

He refused to sign.

"As I see it," said Joseph in a letter to the dealership, "my clients have paid dearly for a vehicle which they believed to be new, but in fact was used. Additionally, my clients ... suffered great mental anguish once they found out what their van was used for prior to their purchase of it."

Joseph said the Comitas still have the van and he's trying to negotiate a settlement with Golf Mill Ford, but the dealer has refused.

Van: Secretary of state's police are investigating

Although this is beyond an extreme case, it is relevant to what's going on with me right now.

I just bought a used vehicle yesterday and although it was fairly easy, it still had it's hiccups. As a consumer that likes to be treated fairly I hate the car buying routine more than any shopping experience (I haven't purchased a house yet). They are always trying to low-ball you while keeping the price of the car you want as high as possible. Then there's the interest rates. This purchase was an exception. I was pre-approved through my bank and they needed to beat that offer by a lot for me to use their bank instead. In the past it's always been:

them: ok, we'll finance you at 10%
me: no
them: let me talk to my boss
*sit with my thumb up my ass for 20 min*
them: ok, I got them to go down to 9%
me: I can do better with my bank
them: let me talk to my boss
*sit with my thumb up my ass for another 20 min*
them: ok, I got them to go down to 8%
me: go fuck yourself
*goes home*

next day
phone call from salesman
them: I really want to sell you this car so we dropped the rate to 7%. Wow. You're getting one hell of a deal here
me: I can do better with my bank
them: let me see what I can do

later that day
them: wow, I can't believe we're doing this. I don't even think we're making any money on this deal. In fact we're probably taking a huge loss. When the owner finds out I think I'll probably lose my job. We can finance you at 6%
me: that's a nice rate, I'll take it.

Then you sit in the financing office. The same bs ensues while they try to sell you gap coverage, extended warranties, lojack, etc. I ended up getting gap coverage for about $1.50/mo (down from about $10/mo with a warranty but supposedly they couldn't do the warranty because it's a turbo).

In the end, I think I got a fair deal. I paid just a bit over retail blue book, but I owed $2k more than the wholesale blue book. They paid it off and didn't add anything on to the financed amount from the previous vehicle.

However, I only did ok because I was a bit of a dick and was able to tell when I was really getting screwed over. Overall, I probably got screwed a little bit, but I just wanted to be finished with it. I hate that you have to be so aggressive to keep yourself from being totally screwed over and it makes me feel bad for the people who aren't comfortable with doing that because they can get so screwed over.

What do you guys think about car salesman? Are there any here that would like to comment about the ethics of selling used cars? Do you think that you treat people with respect and try not to take advantage of them?

laconic1 · 07-20-2004, 03:19 PM

When I worked at a dealership (service department) the thing I always noticed about the salespeople that worked there was that they came from other industries and knew nothing about cars. As a result they didn't know what they were really selling, which is what seemed to cause most of the problems.

ReggErving · 07-20-2004, 03:33 PM

I couldn't agree kutulu, hat seems to be the biggest pain in the ass in the world. I'm actually buying a home right now and it is far from stressfull, but it has been so much smoother than buying a car. I guess it must be a trust issue with the realtor and the home owner I am buying the home from compared to the stereotypical car salespeople. Before car salespeople here start railing on me I know your not all trying to get over on people, just some of them are. *wink*

kutulu · 07-20-2004, 03:42 PM

I've never bought a car or even negotiated with a salesman that I didn't feel was trying to screw me over. I've bought 4 cars on my own now and walked out of probably 20 other negotiations. In each one of them they were trying to either undervalue my car, overvalue their car, or give me a crap interest rate (or all three). Maybe it's just bad luck...

TM875 · 07-20-2004, 04:20 PM

See, maybe I'm the exception, but I LOVE wheeling and dealing for big stuff.

Like my most recent car purchase. It was after an accident, so I didn't have much money, and really needed a car. The starting price was 7000, and I talked them down to 5500, if I bought a one year warranty for around 1200 (I would have bought it anyway). Well, whaddaya know, four months later the car hate a major engine flaw, and the warranty covered it (cost was about $1000). I definately made out on this deal.

I like the feel of the competition - me vs. the car salesman - and fighting hard for what I want.

MSD · 07-20-2004, 07:16 PM

"Confessions of a car Salesman at edmunds.com

Great article about working at a dealership

kutulu · 07-21-2004, 08:28 AM

That was a very informative article. Nothing I hadn't expected but pretty crazy nonetheless. I'm seen every tactic they listed there.

What I didn't like about the article was that the author sympathized with the salespeople at the end, saying the real bullies are the managers and the owners. I think that's total BS. The managers and owners may be worse than the salespeople but they chose the job. They know that they are doing.

It was shocking to read that some people don't even try to negotiate and take the first offer the dealer gives them. How stupid are those people?

Polyphobic · 07-21-2004, 08:33 AM

As for house versus car buying, the process of purchasing a house has many more legal protections built into it. I found it much easier and less stressfull to by a house as opposed to a car. It just takes much longer.

water_boy1999 · 07-21-2004, 09:07 AM

I was in this same boat a few weeks ago. I wa sin the market for a new Tahoe so I went over to the dealership to check out a few rides. Upon entering the place, Larry came out and said hello. I told him right off the back that I am "in no way going to purchase a vehicle today" so I could give him the hint to NOT give me the usual hardcore sales pitch. I am a salesman too, but in a completely different industry.

So, I test drove a vehicle I liked and I wanted to know the numbers behind purchasing it and selling my other truck. So, the guy has to run my credit before he can give me quotes. This gives him an idea of how much to come back to me with.

We go through figures and I tell him what I want the transaction to look like. So, he runs the numbers, comes back and says he could probably do that but has to talk to his boss. He comes over and asks me to sit. Then they both sit there and try to give me the hard sell, but I was treating them like a bunch of fucking asshats. I told the manager "I told Larry upon entering that I am not ready to get a new ride today", which he repsonds with, "So, there is no way I can get you into a new vehicle?" I just walked out.

Get this!!!!!! They weren't done yet. Theye was a HOT sales girl there that I made note of in front of Larry. As I am sitting in my truck out front, I see him go talk to her. She comes out, knocks on my window when I was on the phone. I opened it and she starts to flirt with me. I told her that was pretty fucking cheap to send to pretty girl over as a last ditch effort to get me to buy a vehicle. Of course she didn't know what I was talking about....

Redlemon · 07-21-2004, 10:10 AM

I can't stand the wheeling and dealing. However, if you are planning to do it, I'd recommend bringing something good to read. That way, the 20-minute breaks while they pretend to be working hard won't have any effect. Or, even better, bring a handheld videogame, so they can hear the noise.

kutulu · 07-21-2004, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by water_boy1999
So, I test drove a vehicle I liked and I wanted to know the numbers behind purchasing it and selling my other truck. So, the guy has to run my credit before he can give me quotes. This gives him an idea of how much to come back to me with.

Unless you were looking at interest rates there was absolutely no reason for them to run your credit.

I just remembered that the guy I worked with last weekend did a trick I'd never seen before. When he took my keys to evaluate my car (I should have been standing there as it happened, but I was distracted), he never gave them back till I asked for them (about an hour later when I realized he still had them). In the past, when I'd walk out, I usually left while the salesman was "talking with the boss" It was a non-confrontational way to sneak out. He eliminated that opprotunity by holding on to them. It was slimey, but very smart. My wife and I had a good laugh about it.

Always talk actual amounts, never talk monthly payments. First of all, it breaks it down into an amount that is too small to see the overall change in price. Second of all, with a 15,000 vehicle the difference between a 6% loan and a 11% loan is $36. It doesn't seem like a lot but over a 60 month loan it's $2,160. A lot of extra charges can be hidden in interest rates.

Sell your old car privately before you buy the car. A dealership will do whatever they can to get you to take as little as possible for your trade. In many cases they might make more by selling your car at auction than they made off the car you purchased. Selling it privately will not only maximize what you get for your vehicle but it will also simplify your negotiations, tilting it more in your favor.

Selling it privately can be difficult if say you owed $2k more than what you can sell it for. If you were planning on making a down payment, spend it on making up the difference between what you sold your car for and what you owed. Nobody really needs a down payment anyway. They just want more cash up front for their pockets rather than in the financing guy's pockets.

The last thing I'd say it to never buy a car by yourself. First of all, you tend to spend a lot of time alone while he "talks to the boss" and you can have some company. Second, they like to gang up on you and back you in a corner. The person you bring with you will remind you that you're not alone, you have the power to leave, and that someone else is on your side because the sales guy is not.

Also, if the person you bring is a SO, sit close together rather than on opposite sides of the table where they set the chairs. They want to divide and conquer, if you stay together it might help you subconciously.

Overall, if you are going brand new, just talk to the fleet/internet manager over the phone or by email. There's a reason why the salesmen in the article were complaining about the internet sales. People get a better deal, hell they can get a car for under invoice!

merkerguitars · 07-21-2004, 10:43 AM

Heh, a dealership I worked at ( I did computer work for them ) got in trouble for rolling back odometers way back in the day. I can't believe dealerships would do such a thing...

kutulu · 07-21-2004, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by merkerguitars
Heh, a dealership I worked at ( I did computer work for them ) got in trouble for rolling back odometers way back in the day. I can't believe dealerships would do such a thing...

Ya, that goes waaay beyond just making the customer pay too much for a car. I doubt it happens often. Hopefully that practice is reserved to the sleaziest of sleazy dealerships.

Rodney · 07-21-2004, 05:54 PM

Every dealership/car salesman is going to see how much they can take you for. The difference is, some back off when you show you're not totally ignorant, and some don't.

Last car I bought, I talked to two dealers. One wouldn't even give a straight answer on what they wanted. They would show me the "deal cost figures" (yeah, right), and we could negotiate from there -- once I put down $100 deposit to show I was "serious." When I told them that was objectionable, they actually screamed at me. Obviously, I didn't buy from them.

Went to another dealership, same car model, 10 miles away. The saleswoman (right out) asked if I'd be willing to pay a certain figure for the car -- it was list price, which I knew. I told her no, the figure I had in mind was much lower. She told me that my price was too low, but took it to the manager, who came back with a counter offer that seemed quite fair, and which I took. (A little later, dealing with the inevitable buyer's remorse, I did a little more research and found that the price was in fact quite good. It probably helped that there were about 50 of that model sitting on the lot -- they wanted to move them.)

As I sat there with the salesperson waiting for the papers the clear, she let all the bullshit drop and said, "There are plenty of good cars on the market, plenty of good brands. It doesn't make any sense to turn people off with a hard sell. They'll just go down the road and buy something else." She told me she'd been selling cars for 30 years, so I guess she would know.

So that was a good experience -- the saleswoman definitely wasn't my friend, but when she saw that I wasn't totally ignorant, she changed her tactics and closed the deal professionally. That's what a "good" dealership does.

shakran · 07-21-2004, 07:24 PM

another tip: never give them the keys to your trade in. All they do is keep them, or at most drive the car somewhere where it's hard to find. They can look in the bluebook. They do not need to drive your car to determine its value.

of course the REAL tip is never trade your car in. You get screwed every time, even if you think you're getting a good deal. Sell it privately.

TM875 · 07-22-2004, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by shakran

of course the REAL tip is never trade your car in. You get screwed every time, even if you think you're getting a good deal. Sell it privately.

That's entirely not true. A few years back, my folks went out to trade in their old car for a minivan. Well, the trade it was worth about $2000 Bluebook. However, because of the amounts that they promised my folks that they would pay (ie: the gaurnteed final costs and payments), the dealership HAD to give a huge amount for the car. I think we got something around $8000 for a car that wasn't worth nearly that.

Using your car as a trade in gives you a basis on marketable cost. You may get less than what you would sell it for privately, but not always. If you know what you're doing - and how to manipulate salesmen - then it's usually a good thing to come in with a trade in (especially if you don't have a huge amount to use as a down payment).

Reese · 07-22-2004, 07:06 AM

I think It's very interesting to watch the social interaction between customer and car salesmen. That was a very interesting Article.

I hate/love dealing with people working on commission. If I'm buying something from them I know they are feeding me bullshit and I'm probably not going to get a good deal, on the other hand I regularly go into places like Circuit City and have the salesperson try to sell me the highest tv in the place.

laconic1 · 07-22-2004, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by water_boy1999

Get this!!!!!! They weren't done yet. Theye was a HOT sales girl there that I made note of in front of Larry. As I am sitting in my truck out front, I see him go talk to her. She comes out, knocks on my window when I was on the phone. I opened it and she starts to flirt with me. I told her that was pretty fucking cheap to send to pretty girl over as a last ditch effort to get me to buy a vehicle. Of course she didn't know what I was talking about....

The dealership I used to work at used to hire hot, hot, hot girls to work as "greeters", but their main job was to wear short skirts and skimpy outfits and flirt with all the customers. I still remember the day the one really hot girl came to work in a french maid outfit.

Stompy · 07-22-2004, 07:35 AM

Other than the rolling back of the odometer (which just ensures that they get a hefty discount off their vehicle), it's not a big deal.

It's not like they embalmed the bodies in the vehicle, nor were naked corpses lying directly on the floor.

Nor will the spirits of the deceased be lingering around to taunt the folks who bought the van

[edit]
Haggling for stuff is fun, too. If I were to buy a car, I'd walk in, give a low low price, and if they didn't like it, I'd wave bye bye! Usually they come runnin after ya

If they come back with a counter offer, lower your original price to get what you want:

You: "25,000"
Salesman: "How about 30,000 instead?"
You: "Okay, 24,500 or I'm walking."
Salesman "25,000 it is."

Salesmen rip you off only if you let them. If they have a car they're trying to get rid of, trust me, they'll do anything. If you don't play a pushover, you can pretty much get anything you want and walk away with a sweet ass deal.

BadNick · 07-22-2004, 11:42 AM

Especially years ago, I always found car salespeople to be some of the slimmyest sales types around ...in my experience all these people were men by the way. When they don't even know their product, and most seem to know very little, it's just all the more annoying especially since I've always been a motorhead and know a lot about cars.

I haven't purchased a new car since '90 and the car I bought then was in short supply with very little dealing so I got it for a tad under list, but that is what they went for then. Back then, I went to a local dealer who had a super duper reputation for straight forward sales, no b.s., fantastic service. They lived up to all of that over the almost ten years I owned that car. They still have an excellent local reputation, but I haven't had any dealing with them for well over 5yrs. A plug: it was Faulkner and they have many car dealerships around Philadelphia and I hear they are still very good.

This time I did it differently just based on things I've heard over the last couple years, so I started with Internet shopping. We were shopping for either an Acura TL or TSX, both brand new only. My wife and I test drove both, I liked the TL she liked the TSX and since it would be her daily driver, we pursued the TSX deal. After a little online hunting, I got "typical market value" which is supposed to be a decent price but not necessarily the lowest. Then I went to Edmunds website and picked the car we wanted and put in my info so they can have local dealers quote me a price. Within a few hours, I had a quote from one local dealer and an encouraging reply from another but no price. I emailed back to the Internet Sales Mgr at the dealer who gave me the price that it sounded good but I needed to do more research so I can feel confident about what a good deal is when I see it. The next morning, he sent me another email and came down another couple hundred bucks. But my wife preferred to also try a dealer closer to home who was less than ten minutes away vs this one who was 20min away plus her dad had purchased a car at the more local dealer a few years ago and was satisfied. Last Saturday we went there, I told him that I got what looked like a pretty decent internet price and mentioned the name of the other dealer. After "checking with his manager" he came back and matched that price. We drove out that day in a new Acura TSX, we love the car and feel we got a decent fair price and not much hassle in the process of buying it.

Sion · 07-24-2004, 11:14 PM

the best tip for buying a car at a dealership is NEVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, finance it there.

tangledweb · 07-25-2004, 10:42 AM

My buddy recently quit a job at the local Toyota dealership. The salesmen hired for those jobs get screwed too. They are promised $X for each car they sell, then they are only paid $Y when they sell it. Basically. the salemen who remain after the first few months are the slimiest, dirtiest of the bunch who have learned that they have to Screw or be screwed.

My buddy lasted 2 1/2 months before he walked. He walked because he was told to blatantly screw over a 70-something year old lady by telling her that her trade-in had "Major problems" and if she kept it, it would cost her thousands in repair bills.

There may be some good people in the car business, but there aren't many.

kutulu · 07-26-2004, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sion
the best tip for buying a car at a dealership is NEVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, finance it there.

That's not always true though. On my recent purchase I was pre-approved at my bank at 11.25% (my credit is C teir, not terrible, but far from outstanding). I informed the dealership that I was pre-approved and therefore not interested in their financing. They make major money on financing, therefore they countered with a 6.9% interest rate to insure that I would use their bank and they could keep the interest money. The difference in interest rates saves me about $35/mo and over 2,000 over the loan term. Hell, some people are getting 0%-2% if they have really great credit. You'll never see a bank give you a loan at those rates, not even for a mortgage.

My advice is to know that you have options and make sure the dealer knows it.

samiam · 07-26-2004, 10:41 AM

Whenever a salesperson says they are going to speak to the manager, I just follow them. it makes the waits more interesting and I get a chance to put in a few more plugs about how little I am willing to pay. It usually works and I have met some interesting managers with whom I then dealt directly for future cars.

mikec · 07-27-2004, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrSelfDestruct
"Confessions of a car Salesman at edmunds.com

Great article about working at a dealership

thanks for that, I read the whole thing. Good stuff, and confirmed what I already knew.....salesmen are kinda slimy, but the boss men are the kings of slime.

I had my battle with a new car dealership 1.5 years ago. I hated the whole thing, and I would never go back to the dealership I bought from, just cause they were all slimey fucks. I'll try a no haggle dealership next time.

BadNick · 07-28-2004, 06:31 AM

Banks will never EVER give you 0% financing but many car companies who want to move cars are doing that since they have financial divisions with plenty of $ and are willing to subsidize the purchase to move cars and make money on that.

Wife and I have excellent credit, but when we just purchased our new Acura TSX, Honda Finance terms were better than the best bank rate, way under 5% for 60mo.

Simple: shop around.

07-20-2004, 03:33 PM	#3 (permalink)
ReggErving Addict	I couldn't agree kutulu, hat seems to be the biggest pain in the ass in the world. I'm actually buying a home right now and it is far from stressfull, but it has been so much smoother than buying a car. I guess it must be a trust issue with the realtor and the home owner I am buying the home from compared to the stereotypical car salespeople. Before car salespeople here start railing on me I know your not all trying to get over on people, just some of them are. wink __________________ ...sitting on your bed with a samauri pose.

07-20-2004, 04:20 PM	#5 (permalink)
TM875 Addict Location: Amish-land, PA	See, maybe I'm the exception, but I LOVE wheeling and dealing for big stuff. Like my most recent car purchase. It was after an accident, so I didn't have much money, and really needed a car. The starting price was 7000, and I talked them down to 5500, if I bought a one year warranty for around 1200 (I would have bought it anyway). Well, whaddaya know, four months later the car hate a major engine flaw, and the warranty covered it (cost was about $1000). I definately made out on this deal. I like the feel of the competition - me vs. the car salesman - and fighting hard for what I want. __________________ "I've made only one mistake in my life. But I made it over and over and over. That was saying 'yes' when I meant 'no'. Forgive me."

07-20-2004, 07:16 PM	#6 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	"Confessions of a car Salesman at edmunds.com Great article about working at a dealership Last edited by Bill O'Rights; 07-21-2004 at 11:48 AM..

07-21-2004, 08:33 AM	#8 (permalink)
Polyphobic Runt Location: Denver	As for house versus car buying, the process of purchasing a house has many more legal protections built into it. I found it much easier and less stressfull to by a house as opposed to a car. It just takes much longer. __________________ <--The great infidel-->

07-21-2004, 09:07 AM	#9 (permalink)
water_boy1999 Fly em straight! Location: Above and Beyond	I was in this same boat a few weeks ago. I wa sin the market for a new Tahoe so I went over to the dealership to check out a few rides. Upon entering the place, Larry came out and said hello. I told him right off the back that I am "in no way going to purchase a vehicle today" so I could give him the hint to NOT give me the usual hardcore sales pitch. I am a salesman too, but in a completely different industry. So, I test drove a vehicle I liked and I wanted to know the numbers behind purchasing it and selling my other truck. So, the guy has to run my credit before he can give me quotes. This gives him an idea of how much to come back to me with. We go through figures and I tell him what I want the transaction to look like. So, he runs the numbers, comes back and says he could probably do that but has to talk to his boss. He comes over and asks me to sit. Then they both sit there and try to give me the hard sell, but I was treating them like a bunch of fucking asshats. I told the manager "I told Larry upon entering that I am not ready to get a new ride today", which he repsonds with, "So, there is no way I can get you into a new vehicle?" I just walked out. Get this!!!!!! They weren't done yet. Theye was a HOT sales girl there that I made note of in front of Larry. As I am sitting in my truck out front, I see him go talk to her. She comes out, knocks on my window when I was on the phone. I opened it and she starts to flirt with me. I told her that was pretty fucking cheap to send to pretty girl over as a last ditch effort to get me to buy a vehicle. Of course she didn't know what I was talking about.... __________________ Doh!!!! -Homer Simpson

07-20-2004, 03:19 PM	#2 (permalink)
laconic1 Junkie	When I worked at a dealership (service department) the thing I always noticed about the salespeople that worked there was that they came from other industries and knew nothing about cars. As a result they didn't know what they were really selling, which is what seemed to cause most of the problems.

07-20-2004, 03:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	I've never bought a car or even negotiated with a salesman that I didn't feel was trying to screw me over. I've bought 4 cars on my own now and walked out of probably 20 other negotiations. In each one of them they were trying to either undervalue my car, overvalue their car, or give me a crap interest rate (or all three). Maybe it's just bad luck...

07-21-2004, 08:28 AM	#7 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	That was a very informative article. Nothing I hadn't expected but pretty crazy nonetheless. I'm seen every tactic they listed there. What I didn't like about the article was that the author sympathized with the salespeople at the end, saying the real bullies are the managers and the owners. I think that's total BS. The managers and owners may be worse than the salespeople but they chose the job. They know that they are doing. It was shocking to read that some people don't even try to negotiate and take the first offer the dealer gives them. How stupid are those people?

07-21-2004, 10:10 AM	#10 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	I can't stand the wheeling and dealing. However, if you are planning to do it, I'd recommend bringing something good to read. That way, the 20-minute breaks while they pretend to be working hard won't have any effect. Or, even better, bring a handheld videogame, so they can hear the noise. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

07-21-2004, 10:43 AM	#12 (permalink)
merkerguitars Buffering......... Location: Wisconsin...	Heh, a dealership I worked at ( I did computer work for them ) got in trouble for rolling back odometers way back in the day. I can't believe dealerships would do such a thing... __________________ Donate now! Ask me How! Please use the search function it is your friend. Look at my mustang please feel free to comment! http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=26985

07-21-2004, 05:54 PM	#14 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	Every dealership/car salesman is going to see how much they can take you for. The difference is, some back off when you show you're not totally ignorant, and some don't. Last car I bought, I talked to two dealers. One wouldn't even give a straight answer on what they wanted. They would show me the "deal cost figures" (yeah, right), and we could negotiate from there -- once I put down $100 deposit to show I was "serious." When I told them that was objectionable, they actually screamed at me. Obviously, I didn't buy from them. Went to another dealership, same car model, 10 miles away. The saleswoman (right out) asked if I'd be willing to pay a certain figure for the car -- it was list price, which I knew. I told her no, the figure I had in mind was much lower. She told me that my price was too low, but took it to the manager, who came back with a counter offer that seemed quite fair, and which I took. (A little later, dealing with the inevitable buyer's remorse, I did a little more research and found that the price was in fact quite good. It probably helped that there were about 50 of that model sitting on the lot -- they wanted to move them.) As I sat there with the salesperson waiting for the papers the clear, she let all the bullshit drop and said, "There are plenty of good cars on the market, plenty of good brands. It doesn't make any sense to turn people off with a hard sell. They'll just go down the road and buy something else." She told me she'd been selling cars for 30 years, so I guess she would know. So that was a good experience -- the saleswoman definitely wasn't my friend, but when she saw that I wasn't totally ignorant, she changed her tactics and closed the deal professionally. That's what a "good" dealership does. Last edited by Rodney; 07-21-2004 at 05:57 PM..

07-21-2004, 07:24 PM	#15 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	another tip: never give them the keys to your trade in. All they do is keep them, or at most drive the car somewhere where it's hard to find. They can look in the bluebook. They do not need to drive your car to determine its value. of course the REAL tip is never trade your car in. You get screwed every time, even if you think you're getting a good deal. Sell it privately.

07-22-2004, 07:06 AM	#17 (permalink)
Reese Delicious	I think It's very interesting to watch the social interaction between customer and car salesmen. That was a very interesting Article. I hate/love dealing with people working on commission. If I'm buying something from them I know they are feeding me bullshit and I'm probably not going to get a good deal, on the other hand I regularly go into places like Circuit City and have the salesperson try to sell me the highest tv in the place. __________________ “It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

07-22-2004, 07:35 AM	#19 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	Other than the rolling back of the odometer (which just ensures that they get a hefty discount off their vehicle), it's not a big deal. It's not like they embalmed the bodies in the vehicle, nor were naked corpses lying directly on the floor. Nor will the spirits of the deceased be lingering around to taunt the folks who bought the van [edit] Haggling for stuff is fun, too. If I were to buy a car, I'd walk in, give a low low price, and if they didn't like it, I'd wave bye bye! Usually they come runnin after ya If they come back with a counter offer, lower your original price to get what you want: You: "25,000" Salesman: "How about 30,000 instead?" You: "Okay, 24,500 or I'm walking." Salesman "25,000 it is." Salesmen rip you off only if you let them. If they have a car they're trying to get rid of, trust me, they'll do anything. If you don't play a pushover, you can pretty much get anything you want and walk away with a sweet ass deal. __________________ I love lamp. Last edited by Stompy; 07-22-2004 at 07:46 AM..

07-22-2004, 11:42 AM	#20 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	Especially years ago, I always found car salespeople to be some of the slimmyest sales types around ...in my experience all these people were men by the way. When they don't even know their product, and most seem to know very little, it's just all the more annoying especially since I've always been a motorhead and know a lot about cars. I haven't purchased a new car since '90 and the car I bought then was in short supply with very little dealing so I got it for a tad under list, but that is what they went for then. Back then, I went to a local dealer who had a super duper reputation for straight forward sales, no b.s., fantastic service. They lived up to all of that over the almost ten years I owned that car. They still have an excellent local reputation, but I haven't had any dealing with them for well over 5yrs. A plug: it was Faulkner and they have many car dealerships around Philadelphia and I hear they are still very good. This time I did it differently just based on things I've heard over the last couple years, so I started with Internet shopping. We were shopping for either an Acura TL or TSX, both brand new only. My wife and I test drove both, I liked the TL she liked the TSX and since it would be her daily driver, we pursued the TSX deal. After a little online hunting, I got "typical market value" which is supposed to be a decent price but not necessarily the lowest. Then I went to Edmunds website and picked the car we wanted and put in my info so they can have local dealers quote me a price. Within a few hours, I had a quote from one local dealer and an encouraging reply from another but no price. I emailed back to the Internet Sales Mgr at the dealer who gave me the price that it sounded good but I needed to do more research so I can feel confident about what a good deal is when I see it. The next morning, he sent me another email and came down another couple hundred bucks. But my wife preferred to also try a dealer closer to home who was less than ten minutes away vs this one who was 20min away plus her dad had purchased a car at the more local dealer a few years ago and was satisfied. Last Saturday we went there, I told him that I got what looked like a pretty decent internet price and mentioned the name of the other dealer. After "checking with his manager" he came back and matched that price. We drove out that day in a new Acura TSX, we love the car and feel we got a decent fair price and not much hassle in the process of buying it.

07-24-2004, 11:14 PM	#21 (permalink)
Sion Dumb all over...a little ugly on the side Location: In the room where the giant fire puffer works, and the torture never stops.	the best tip for buying a car at a dealership is NEVER, EVER, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, finance it there. __________________ He's the best, of course, of all the worst. Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin...

07-25-2004, 10:42 AM	#22 (permalink)
tangledweb slightly impaired Location: Down South	My buddy recently quit a job at the local Toyota dealership. The salesmen hired for those jobs get screwed too. They are promised $X for each car they sell, then they are only paid $Y when they sell it. Basically. the salemen who remain after the first few months are the slimiest, dirtiest of the bunch who have learned that they have to Screw or be screwed. My buddy lasted 2 1/2 months before he walked. He walked because he was told to blatantly screw over a 70-something year old lady by telling her that her trade-in had "Major problems" and if she kept it, it would cost her thousands in repair bills. There may be some good people in the car business, but there aren't many.

07-26-2004, 10:41 AM	#24 (permalink)
samiam Crazy	Whenever a salesperson says they are going to speak to the manager, I just follow them. it makes the waits more interesting and I get a chance to put in a few more plugs about how little I am willing to pay. It usually works and I have met some interesting managers with whom I then dealt directly for future cars.

07-28-2004, 06:31 AM	#26 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	Banks will never EVER give you 0% financing but many car companies who want to move cars are doing that since they have financial divisions with plenty of $ and are willing to subsidize the purchase to move cars and make money on that. Wife and I have excellent credit, but when we just purchased our new Acura TSX, Honda Finance terms were better than the best bank rate, way under 5% for 60mo. Simple: shop around.