KellyC

A friend of mine made a big fuss over this, about how VS is disrepecting Buddhism such. He says it's offensive to see the image of Buddha on a bathing suit like that, I don't see how, I think it looks very nice, and then followed by a heated arguement.

So I want to know is what VS doing really disrepecting Buddhism and religion in general?

Would any of you get offended if Jesus is on bathing suit?

Linky

They even got a petition for this thing

Petition

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:::OshnSoul:::

Buddha designs and such are very popular right now. Has nothing to do with religion- that is not their intention. For them, it's about fashion style/trend. If you go to a popular junior/teen-related clothing store, you're sure to find something with Buddha on it. It's just the hot thing right now.

raeanna74

I agree with Oshnsoul that the motive behind this is probably purely fashion. I doubt they'd be making a statement about buddism. I don't think I'd personally be offended about a bikini with a cross or image of Jesus on it. I'm not terribly defensive about Christianity though so maybe someone else who's Christian in belief can answer that better.

I do see it as odd that they put the budda in the center of the bikini bottom. I just wouldn't want to wear it there. Kinda wierd. I like the material and pattern. Just kinda wierd used as it is.

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Charlatan

Popular culture consumes everything that comes into its path...

The question is what do Buddhists think about this? I would imagine they could care less.

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tisonlyi

I think a buddhist, particularly a devout buddhist, would be content with anything that could potentially turn one persons head towards finding the Four Noble Truths.

Ripples of cause and effect, and all that, old beans.

--
didnt want to post twice
--

This got me:

Buddhists, in their greater mass and theory, do not hold BELIEFS - which are not subject to change as opposed to ideas, which are flexible - and therefore cannot be said to be BELIEVERS in the same way as a person who believes in the teachings of Christ or the strictures laid down by the prophet Mohammed.

I'm really confused by this reaction.

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"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." - Winston Churchill, 1937 --{ORLY?}--

fallenangel

i'm sick of people looking for reasons to get worked up about things... i mean yes i understand where the controversy comes from but it's not life and death nor is it a show of disrespect to buddah believers either. *sigh*

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Strange Famous

Well, it is slightly different I guess, to compare Jesus and Buddha, because Jesus is seen as the Son of God by Christians, and a very powerful prophet of Allah by Muslims, but Budha never claimed to be of or have any direct connection to the Gods as far as I understand, he was just a preacher who found perfect enlightenment through meditation. And also, the fat "jolly buddha" of popular culture actually isnt Gautama Buddha (the original Buddha), but actually was based on a Chinese Zen Monk called Hotei... so, I dont know.

I personally dont think it is sacriligious, although it is a little silly. And people could put a picture of Jesus or Mohammad on a swim suit and it still wouldnt really offend me.

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"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Rodney

Yah, Buddha never claimed he was a God, and most of his followers simply revere him as the enlightened one who enlightenment and taught it to others. So there probably won't be much of a racket about this, although some Buddhists will shake their heads at the crass Westerners.

On the other hand, you can buy a lot of really stupid crap with Jesus' face on it or a biblical theme. The fact that these thins are marketed mainly to more unsophisticated Christians who actually might see them as good things, don't make them any less crass.

Like: a 12 Apostles beer mug? Or beach sandals that leave the message "Jesus Loves You" behind in your footprints? Or your own personal "bible belt?" Check out "Gadgets for God" at this URL for more like this, and worse:

http://www.shipoffools.com/Gadgets/index.html

Lebell

Yes, it offends me.

The same way Bling Bling crosses offend me.

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analog

If people put an image of jesus on a hot girl's bathing suit's crotch, I think more poeple would want to seek jesus.

They're not bashing him, they're just putting his image on something. Come on.

World's King

I never see the underwear long enough to care.


"Those are nice... take 'em off and fuck me."

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

wilbjammin

Religion is a product. We've been reduced to this.

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Innominate.

Halx

I could care less... then again, nothing is sacred to me.

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Gortexfogg

At least they didn't use Bob Dylan's image, right?

Anyway, I don't think the image of Buddha is copyrighted so Victoria's Secret has every right to use it.

CSflim

My mum brought me this back from her holiday in America:
[IMG]http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TACdAhYYqbwX*RJo2I5hhOEU5sbaVP*O9UyNIFZ!GgBl5r5lC2qYkUyLC7P158bvQ6ZOoA318PEEiPla42rP8nhS7pG92ydtstzoTNI79wQqEkU5kkrgoQ/jesus_lamb.jpg?dc=4675469601865275655[/IMG]

(It says on it "I love Jesus", and is holding a Holy Bible, which you can open and read a quote).

As frequentors of the philosophy board will know, I am an atheist, so this gift obviously was given tongue firmly in cheek. I find it hilarious that something so unbearably tacky would actually be sold in shops.

Offensive: No
Tacky: Very!

__________________

tisonlyi

Hey, stop mocking.

Sheep are allowed true faith as well...

(some might say exclusively... Ooooh... Controversial....)

__________________
"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." - Winston Churchill, 1937 --{ORLY?}--

CSflim

Holy shit! Some of that stuff on that site is way better than what i got! Thats pretty hilarious!

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Destrox

Unless you your self are a Buddist (sp), I dont want to hear jack shit from you or others. If they care or are pissed off about it, let the damn Buddist speak up for them selves.

Otherwise sit down, shut up, and move on.

This was no ment to offend anyone, its just me being me.

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pocon1

right on the crotch is very tacky, if it were are one piece splashed across her belly, it would be a different story. I do find that image provocative and meant to draw a response.

feelgood

Ah, just another bunch of people getting worked over simple thing

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Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

Lebell

Fortunately for everyone, it is not up to you to prohibit non-Buddhists from speaking up in at TFP.

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"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis

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bermuDa

I currently practice no religion, but buddhism is the only one I've ever felt comfortable in and the one I most closely associate with.

I think the bathing suit looks tacky, but people will still buy it and that's what VS cares about. The controversy over it will just increase interest and in extension, sales figures.

People who call themselves "believers in buddhism" make me chuckle. The creators of that petition remind me of the easily offended zealots who take the world way too seriously and try to make us all as scared and nervous as they are.

I'd like to thank them for speaking for all the buddhists of the world, who NO DOUBT share in their outrage and demand that images of buddha be restricted to all other forms of merchandise that does not cover a woman's naughty parts.

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H12

It's certainly weird to see Buddha between the thighs of a beautiful woman, but as long as actual members of the religion don't mind, then let Buddha be on crotchless panties for all I care.

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sexymama

Religious symbols and fashion just don't mix, imho -- no matter the intent.

(BTW, teachers are not suppose to wear crosses to school as that could offend a student. Although I'm not Christian, I think this is interesting. What is the difference between that and wearing a Buddah suit? Beaches are public, are they not?)

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nothingx

Exactly. Everyone is just itching to start a holy war about anything it seems. It would be nice if more people could look past silly things like this and focus their efforts on more importaint issues.

KellyC

Wow..so many post in such a short time...

Thank you all for your inputs.

I was worried for a second that I might be an ass for not finding it offensive.

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Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe?
Me: Shit happens.

panbert

Before my first trip to Thailand I was told about the culture and the two things you should NEVER do is offend (i) their king and (ii) Buddha.

it's not about whether or not VC intended to be offensive, or whether or not people wear those images for the sake of fashion. What matters is that it is HUGELY offensive to the Thai culture. If you're a foreigner holidaying then is it too much to be respectful to their culture & beliefs?

So yeah, I think it is offensive to buddhists (I myself am a Christian) and when you're in a country where almost the entire population treats all images of Buddha feverently and religiously, then wearing a bikini with an image of Buddha is, well, just being insensitive and rude to the host country.

I can't stop people from swearing or misusing the name of God, but I do find it quite offensive myself. And if someone deliberately walks into a church and swears and misue the name of Jesus, then well, he'll be practising his freedom of speech but it's also obvious that he's been deliberately offensive and insensitive.

Kaos

Well, it's not a bathing suit...it's a Thong!

The "What Would Jesus Do?" Thong!
http://www.cafeshops.com/cp/prod.asp...aptist.3948982

:::OshnSoul:::

True, but as a spiritual person that believes in all religion as a path of truth, I yet find myself most intrigued by Buddhism, along with Taoism. I own maybe 3 items of clothing with buddha or such images on it, but not as a means to disrespect or for fashion, but as showing my respect for the religion. I don't really think of that as fashion. It's just if someone wears wwjd (what would jesus do) apparel and jewelry as they are Christians or a believer in Jesus. but in VC's case- what are they selling? Fashion.

I do find the whole thing as a means to stir up contreversy- it's contagious this year.

bparker805

<--Is now questioning his beliefs (and fassion).

lordjeebus

I'm Buddhist and I don't mind. I imagine Buddha would be flattered. That's just me though.

But there are all kinds of ways that "Buddhists" think of "Buddhism" and I would anticipate that many of them would be quite insulted.

I wouldn't wear such clothing in Southeast Asia for the same reason I wouldn't wear Mohammed shirts in the Middle East -- I'm not out to insult people based on the things they believe most strongly in for the sake of fashion.

MSD

For those who don't like links, that is, in fact, from a satirical site.

Strange Famous

I just think it is tacky, insensitive, gaudy and silly - and I would hopew most Buddhist feel the same way, but it isnt blasphemy.

There certainly is a racial/ethnic slant to it though, Victoria's secret wouldnt use the image of Jesus in such a crass way, but as they are only upsetting Buddhists they dont really care... I mean, I guess there are less Buddhist's in the market for sexy lingere,,, the morality of it is inconquential to a capitalist enterprise, but they wouldnt want to alienate a big part of their target market.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

zxello

Question : Why is it considered a good thing if some has a religious tatoo, WWJD wristband, cross around their neck etc, yet its offensive if someone wears underwear / bathing suit etc with a religious icon?

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lordjeebus

I think one of the key differences is that most of the people you describe are wearing things that correspond with their beliefs, at least partially for reasons of faith, not fashion.

For instance, if some Hindu guy showed up in America wearing the Christian regalia for fashion reasons, I'm sure many would find this offensive.

yabobo

I do belive in jesus christ. I wish everyone would.
The fact is we don't and there is many great people I
respect who don't. We have a tfp member who proclaims
to be athieast. I enjoy reading his posts and find many extremely
educating..
Without trying to start a war on religion and this is not my intent at ALL!

I feel each and every one of us in this world need to respect the
right of others to worship who they choose or not to choose
to belive in. With that said,

I feel no one should take anyones religious symbol and place it on a garment and display it in a way that you know will stir up a debate. Religious wars are happening now as they have for thousands of years and many people have died from these wars.
Being a christian in belief out of respect for others wouldn't wear
jesus or buddah on my crotch, Bra or display in any way found offensive by someone elses belief.
Victoria secret knows this and they know that contraversy and sex sells big!
Last statement I promise, though my bible says there will always
be wars and rumors of war. My wish is to invite everyone on earth with all religious beliefs and break bread togeather and get along for the well being of or planet and your children.
In all religions, may you have a sfe and happy day, go in peace.

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lurkette

The only problem I see with it is that it reduces a powerful religious symbol to a fashion accessory covering someone's hooha. I'm not exactly offended, but I think it's stupid and culturally insensitive. But it's just the culture machine chewing up everything in its path and spitting it out again as commodities. *shrug* Nothing to get worked up about, but if I saw someone wearing that bathing suit I'd think they were kind of stupid.

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water_boy1999

Did you just say, "Hooha"???? Hahahaha....that was cute.


yabobo, good points you make there. Let's look at it from a non-believers perspective. Because there are so many religions that claim their god, or Allah, or Buddha, or Satan, or whatever they believe is the truth, then there will always be people offended at someone else because of what they believe.

Now, if there was no religion, their would be no difference in religious beliefs, then there would be no argument, and of course there would be no religious wars.

If there were no religious wars, then there would be no zealots who think that an image like this would be offensive when there are plenty of other worldly issues to "get your panties in a bunch over."

People just need to lighten up. Everyone is running around looking for things to be pissed about or stress over. I think we thrive on it as a society.

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StephenSa

Well, there is a Buddhist story that I think somewhat applies, I don't remember it word for word so if you know it please forgive me my mistakes and feel free to correct.
Two buddhist monks were traveling a road when they came upon a section that had been flooded by a recent rain. There they met a beautiful young woman that was distraught as she couldn't cross the water to continue her journey. Without hesitation the elder monk picked up the woman and carried her to the other side. As they they continued their jouney the younger monk started to berate his elder. He was shocked and offended that the other had broken his vows and touched a woman in such a manner! How could he possibly do such a thing?! To which the elder monk replied, " I put her down on the other side of the water are you still carrying her?"

To me this means that the enlightened don't fixate on worldly things and aren't bound by strict rules and regulations. Things come into your life and you let them go. Attaching to things is unhealthy. So as far as I am concerned, Budda on a bikini is no problem. I think the Buddha would give it a chuckle and move on.

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FaderMonkey

Though I am new to the practice, I would consider myself a Buddhist. I don't really have a problem with this. I think most Buddhists would respnd to it the same way. I'm not female, but if I were I wouldn't buy a bathing suit like that. If someone else wants to though that's their choice...I don't have a problem with it.